Wade Phillips plans to implement a hybrid 3/4

[A55VA6]

From what I've gathered, the one-gap 3-4 is basically a 4-3 under..

 

[TSFH Fan]

Phillips could use Robert Quinn like he talked about using Mario Williams in Houston:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...2”-front/22e614bb-8639-4cee-834c-ee09ee32910a

Phillips clarifies plans for Williams in “5-2” front
Posted May 9, 2011
By Nick Scurfield

The Texans’ decision to move Mario Williams to outside linebacker has sparked plenty of hoopla and debate. Williams has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL as a 4-3 defensive end, and he’ll be an unconventionally large linebacker at 6-6, 290 pounds.

On Monday, defensive coordinator Wade Phillips said that Williams essentially will still be an end in his defense – he’ll just be on his feet more.

“They say ‘3-4’, ‘4-3’, all that,” Phillips said at the Texans' annual Charity Golf Classic. “We really play a 5-2. We play five defensive linemen that can rush the passer and two inside 'backers who can tackle people. And we think Mario certainly fits in there.”

In that 5-2 front, Williams will often be standing up on the right edge of the defensive line as the Will (weakside outside) linebacker.

Along the line to Williams’ left will likely be Antonio Smith at right end, Earl Mitchell or Shaun Cody at nose tackle, J.J. Watt at left end and Connor Barwin or Brooks Reed at Sam (strongside outside) linebacker. Standing behind them will be inside linebackers DeMeco Ryans and Brian Cushing.

“We have a lot of versatility,” Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said. “Cushing gives us a lot of versatility. Connor Barwin gives us a lot of versatility. If Mark Anderson… ends up being ours throughout this (free agency) process, he gives us versatility.

“So we’ve got a lot of good athletes on the defensive side of the ball, and the combinations we just added to it (in the draft) with J.J. and Brooks and those guys give Wade a great a lot of great talent to work with. We’ll have to see how it all fits, but there’s a couple of guys that can play multiple positions.”

Phillips often says that he fits his defense to the players, not the other way around.

“The more you can do with players scheme-wise helps you,” he said. “We’re going to put Mario down some, but we’re not going to tell them when. And same thing with Cushing: We’re going to play him inside most of the time, but sometimes he’s going to be rushing outside.”

Asked how much concern he has about Williams dropping into coverage, Phillips replied, “None.”

“We’re not going to drop him,” Phillips said. “We’re going to rush him. That’s why I say we’re more of a 5-2, in that those five guys are coming a lot of the time, especially the position Mario plays. DeMarcus Ware played that position, Bryce Paup – on and on, guys that have led the league. They didn’t lead the league in sacks by dropping a whole lot.”

Williams has 43.5 sacks since 2007, but he hasn't finished a season in the top-10 in sacks since 2008. Phillips said that he has coached outside linebackers who have led the league in sacks from both the Sam and Will positions.

“We put (Williams) in the premier position,” Phillips said. “You’re rushing the passer more at Will, and so that’s where we put him. We were looking in the draft for the best pass rusher. Well, we had him on our team, and so we just moved him to that position rather than going the other way around.”

 

[OldSchool]

It's the same thing that happened to Julius Peppers and others. They're not physically what the position generally calls for but a good DC will make them a success.

 

[BonifayRam]

Anyone else think it's easier to find a 3-4 olb rusher than a 4-3 DE? It seems to me that it's very difficult to find a guy who can come in and set the edge in the run game and still be an effective pass rusher. Now the Rams can go after those tweeners that don't have prototypical 4-3 end size, but still find someone who rushes the passer well enough and can learn the run game along the way. I hope Quinn gets healthy because I could see him being a 11+ sack guy in Wade's scheme. Just need a solid rusher opposite him and Donald.

Been there for long long time....on your main thought & theory here.... Been saying that forever. But I would also state that these 5-2 edge/end tweeners have to be highly effective in these two positions for a Phillip's defense to be successful. I expect to see the Rams Org. to specifically seek & dig hard before the draft & look for the Rams to come out of this first McVay draft with a couple of good ones.

I wouldn't be surprised if Quinn gets cut, if he doesn't accept a re-structured contract. Barron too.

I see no reason for me to speculate too much on Quinn here...fact is #1 Quinn has been unhealthy in 2015 #2 was mostly unhealthy & not effective in 2016, #3- Quinn remains unhealthy & #4-trending downward fast & finally #5-in truth is not a good fit no matter how hard our members try to pound the Quinn square into a round hole.

When you add in the Quinn price tag that having this 43 RDE here in a 5-2-4 defense in 2017 for the near 10 million appears very UNsound. There's not much here that would warrant any 43 teams to desire Quinn at that price in a trade. Quinn would offer up the Rams some serious 2017 cap savings & future cap savings if released. We will see how this plays out in the near future here on Quinn.

I see Mark Barron as a great fit in Phillips ISLB on the weak side myself like Deone Bucannon plays in the AZ 34 defense.

 

[ramfan46]

Been there for long long time....on your main thought & theory here.... Been saying that forever. But I would also state that these 5-2 edge/end tweeners have to be highly effective in these two positions for a Phillip's defense to be successful. I expect to see the Rams Org. to specifically seek & dig hard before the draft & look for the Rams to come out of this first McVay draft with a couple of good ones.

I see no reason for me to speculate too much on Quinn here...fact is #1 Quinn has been unhealthy in 2015 #2 was mostly unhealthy & not effective in 2016, #3- Quinn remains unhealthy & #4-trending downward fast & finally #5-in truth is not a good fit no matter how hard our members try to pound the Quinn square into a round hole.

When you add in the Quinn price tag that having this 43 RDE here in a 5-2-4 defense in 2017 for the near 10 million appears very UNsound. There's not much here that would warrant any 43 teams to desire Quinn at that price in a trade. Quinn would offer up the Rams some serious 2017 cap savings & future cap savings if released. We will see how this plays out in the near future here on Quinn.

I see Mark Barron as a great fit in Phillips ISLB on the weak side myself like Deone Bucannon plays in the AZ 34 defense.

Quinn was still a factor this year IMO. The pass rush completely disappeared when he went out of the line up. He made plays in 3 of the Rams 4 wins and the play of the year vs Tampa with his strip and downfield blocking to help Westbrooks score. I don't think he's done, but I do understand some people wanting to move on. I think he's similar to Demarcus Ware. He manages back issues and has for years now. When he's moderately healthy though, watch out. I see Quinn the same similar to that now. You got to manage him, make sure he's in great shape, actually hydrating like an athlete should! He might not be an every down player, but he's still one of the best at getting the ball out once he turns the corner. Now, finally a DC who might even move him around for better match ups. There are a ton of RT's I'd love to see Quinn rush on instead of the LT every time besides a stunt here or there.
I'm curious to see where Barron ends up, but I agree with you. I think Wade will scheme Barron clean a lot so he's the run and hit guy. Tree is gonna have to do some dirty work next year. Also, curious to see if the new staff likes Forrest as much as the old one. Draft and FA talk is gonna be busy haha.

 

[Mackeyser]

Actually, this move may help him with the back as sometimes he will be lined up next to AD who will be lined up between the LG and LT and draw that double leaving either AD singled up... not good... or Quinn singled on a TE.

I'm telling you, from a schematic standpoint, this just looks so good.

 

[majrleaged]

I wouldn't be surprised if Quinn gets cut, if he doesn't accept a re-structured contract. Barron too.

I wouldn't be surprised if Quinn gets cut, if he doesn't accept a re-structured contract. Barron too.

Quinn is a playmaker. He has had injury problems last couple of years. You have to see what he has next season.

 

[majrleaged]

6' 4'' 265 is big but he is a great athlete. He will excel in Philips offense. Mario Williams 6'6'' 290.

 

[Warner4Prez]

Eh, hard to say move on from Quinn at this point. Yeah, the last couple of years have been disheartening, and the injuries are a cause for concern. Kicking a not even 27 year old DE with that kinda skill to the curb is a lot premature though.
He's a bit bigger than Shane Ray or Von Miller, and a bit smaller than Mario Williams. All of those guys have had success in Phillips' D in the past though, and he's certainly as talented physically.

 

[Riverumbbq]

6' 4'' 265 is big but he is a great athlete. He will excel in Philips offense. Mario Williams 6'6'' 290.

Nick Perry is a pound heavier and an inch shorter than Quinn, he had 11 sacks for GB at LOLB.

 

[LumberTubs]

Quinn's stats may not have jumped off the page but I remember seeing Donald completely removed as a threat in games where Quinn was inactive. That wasn't a coincidence.

Whether that's worth almost $10m in 2017 is for the Rams brass to decide.

Personally I want to see what Phillips does with him.

 

[Merlin]

Wade will give Quinn every chance to recover some of that old self. But I do think DE is a position they'll be ready to take in the draft if value's there. That and CB.

Barron's the obvious non-fit here, but can he rush? I don't know that anyone's ever given him a prolonged look doing that. And judging off of last season the guy is iffy in consistency vs the run. ILB is probably gonna need a key addition, or he'll have to do something up front to compensate.

Great thing about Wade is he will maximize what he's given. So I hope the Rams listen to him.

 

[jrry32]

I disagree. Quinn fits the scheme perfectly. DeMarcus Ware dominated in Wade's scheme. He's 6'4" 260. Quinn is 6'4" 265. Some other OLBs who were productive while playing for Wade?
Connor Barwin - 6'4" 265
Whitney Mercilus - 6'4" 265
Greg Ellis - 6'6" 265
Anthony Spencer - 6'3" 265
Shawne Merriman - 6'4" 260
Steve Foley - 6'4" 265

Most 3-4 teams use a 2-4-5 nickel package. It is identical to a 4-2-5 except the edge rushers rush out of a two-point stance. Even if we used a 3-3-5, Quinn would remain on the field. It would basically be a 5-1-5 (except the opposite OLB would be someone capable of dropping into coverage).

Quinn's role in a 3-4 is the same as his role in a 4-3. He rushes the passer. He's going to have the same responsibilities that he'd have as a 4-3 RDE.

Let's also not forget that Quinn is a freakish athlete. There are far less athletic dudes who dominate as 3-4 OLBs (see Terrell Suggs).

From what I've gathered, the one-gap 3-4 is basically a 4-3 under..

Similar but different.(but close enough)

 

[UKram]

anyone thinking of picking the phone up to cleveland and seeing if they want a give up one of their firsts for Quinn and maybe a 3rd or maybe a 4th ... ?

 

[shaunpinney]

as long as we win, thats the important thing. He could be playing the the '1-2-buttercup-bloom' formation, as long as it works and is successful, what's the big problem?

I really don't want us to be playing a scheme if it doesn't fit / work with our guys, but I don't think Philips is naïve - he wants to come here and make this D rock. He doesn't want his great career to go backwards here - he wouldn't have taken the job if he thought it was a step back.

 

[jrry32]

Pass rushers are never hard to trade. But I'd have a hard time parting with Quinn.

 

[UKram]

i just think with our switch to Wades D (and im sure Quinn can play well in it ) and Cleveland needing playmakers and having 2 1st rounders and having Williams as DC i think Quinn is a very tradeable commodity especially to cleveland

and having a 1st rounder back would be a bonus dont ya think ? either a weapon for Goff or someone to keep him upright or a new toy for Wades D

 

[A55VA6]

Only concern with Quinn I have is his back injury he had. One of Quinn's best abilities (imo) was his ability to bend coming around the corner. But I think he can still wreck people because like jrry said, he's a freakish athlete.

Trading Quinn would be a dumb idea at the moment. I still think he can be one of the best pass rushers in the league.