Troy Hill

[Merlin]

Here's a good example of Hill in zone. He's bottom of the screen.

Just after the snap you have 86 finishing a quick rub on Fowler. Hill's eyes are on the inside wideout not sure if he has a read there or not to prevent the outside routes, however if that was the case I would think the bottom wideout would be trying to stretch him idk.

Here we see Hill at the bottom of the screen with his trademark cushion. Christian should have the inside wideout as he's positioned over the top which would allow Hill to focus on the underneath but Hill just looks undecided as the underneath breaks

Easy first down.

 

[Merlin]

This time the good Hill shows up...

Pre-snap

At the fake Hill stands his ground and has a moment to use the cushion to read the QB's eyes

He shifts here as he knows the ball is coming his way

Breaking on the ball decisively

Incomplete. Big win on that snap

 

[Merlin]

So I might put up some more later but I've been cruising through multiple games and see the same guy. If anyone is seeing something different please feel free to put them up. He is definitely more consistent than previous years (he has improved) but the guy is not some big time starter waiting for recognition.

 

[Merlin]

Oh and btw how nice is the real grass to look at in comparison to that dimmer green artificial bullshit. Seeing the different fields one after the other it sure was fun watching that Bengals game with the bright green was almost uplifting compared to the Atlanta film.

 

[Ram_Rally]

This is incredible stuff. You need a YouTube page

 

[OntarioRam]

Nice stuff!

To be fair, I don't anyone thinks Troy Hill is a Pro Bowl level corner, or even close to it. He's a CB that has his up and downs but has proven he belongs at the NFL level and seemed to gain a greater level of consistency lately, which was always his biggest problem. That has value. You can never have enough capable CBs.

Williams was a huge surprise late last year. He not only looked better than Hill, but he looked like a lock down guy at times. I am cautiously optimistic the Rams have found an incredible diamond in the rough with him. But it's too small of a sample size for me to get too excited just yet - especially when that small sample size is coupled with recency bias.

 

[Merlin]

If I had to label him I would call him "solid" and yes that has value. Don't hate the guy but ideally he will be depth this season.

 

[So Ram]

Here's a short yardage situation where the bad Hill appears. He's top of the screen.
View attachment 37518

At the snap he's not dictating via leverage one way or the other, but allowing the receiver to choose. Also when you're squared up there you'd better be one of two things... One, a far better athlete than the other guy, or two, pressing him with your hands. Hill is off him though.
View attachment 37519

At the drop Hill is beat, with the wideout crossing over and his hips in the wrong direction.
View attachment 37520

Beat but thankfully the play didn't go to his man
View attachment 37521

Down and distance plays a part. If he took the first look away & had the out covered then he did his job. Still had good coverage because he has good ball skills as well.
D.Williams & T. Hill both are in there last year if there contract.I see comps picks coming to The Rams.

 

[DR RAM]

In probably the best defensive game of the season for us last year, Hill looked like a pro bowl player against the Seachickens. If you rewatch that game, you can see the best of Hill.

I agree, he has been inconsistent, but he also shows some amazing flashes. Here’s the deal, we have some real talent in the secondary, and drafted some intriguing prospects as well. I am very happy that Hill is on the roster, because depth and experience at corner, are always needed, and always appreciated.

 

[Snaz]

Here he is on a first down, bottom of the screen playing off
View attachment 37534

At the fake he's got a nice cushion
View attachment 37535

His receiver crosses the first down marker (35) and we see Hill still playing way off. In fact I am certain that his responsibilities don't include a four yard cushion with the wideout at the first down marker
View attachment 37536

Now this is a very telling still IMO. It shows two CBs who don't have good awareness of where the first down marker is and who are playing way too soft. Seeing Hill do this doesn't surprise me but that's Ramsey top of the screen. Now generally Ramsey doesn't do that btw, but you see the same issue where BOTH of those wideouts can break either direction for an easy completion. Shit coverage to my eye gents and in fact this won't be a completion against Hill because the ball will be complete to Ramsey's dude.
View attachment 37537

Take your pick Matty...
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First down top of screen
View attachment 37539

The problem with this play is that there is a single safety over the top, center field, so both Ramsey and Hill have to play their man.
If both released to underneath coverage, one would be wide open for the TD. So I think they played the play as designed.

 

[Merlin]

The problem with this play is that there is a single safety over the top, center field, so both Ramsey and Hill have to play their man.
If both released to underneath coverage, one would be wide open for the TD. So I think they played the play as designed.

Very unlikely IMO. Safety positioning being single high doesn't make it ok to allow a wideout to have free reign at the first down marker.

The advantage of playing off is an instant to read the QBs eyes and aggressively attack what is underneath. Neither do that. It isn't scheme there it's players.

 

[FarNorth]

If you’re an Athletic subscriber there’s a great story on Hill, they also have a trial free month right now and a sub discount. It’s a very good and deep site.

Hill had a very tough upbringing and has gone through a lot to get to where he is. He's been a solid contributor for the Rams' D especially last year and imo he's a valuable guy to have on the roster. We'll see what his role will be under Staley in what appears to be a very talented secondary but I expect him to continue to get playing time. Not so easy to find guys who can start for or rotate into an NFL secondary.

 

[BonifayRam]

Yep we had some discussions about this early in the year. On this 90 plus player roster Hill salary is in the top 10 of 2020 Rams salary cap hits. Did you not guesstimate that if Hill starts all of the 2020 season his 2020 cap hit might be close to $8 million due to that substantial snap count bonus ?

Hill had a very tough upbringing and has gone through a lot to get to where he is. He's been a solid contributor for the Rams' D especially last year and imo he's a valuable guy to have on the roster. We'll see what his role will be under Staley in what appears to be a very talented secondary but I expect him to continue to get playing time. Not so easy to find guys who can start for or rotate into an NFL secondary.

Yes he has....

Best Player Who Could Be Cut from Every NFL Roster in 2020

Best Player Who Could Be Cut from Every NFL Roster in 2020 View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889955-the-best-player-who-could-be-cut-from-every-nfl-roster-in-2020-offseason Los Angeles Rams: CB Troy HilL The Los Angeles Rams released Todd Gurley and Clay Matthews III, traded Brandin...

ramsondemand.com

Here's some more thoughts on Hill back in March of this year that mirrors your comments:

Troy Hill has had more than his share of life management problems while in the college & NFL level. I do not hold any of that against him because he has turned the corner now. My view of him @ this point in time is he is a good UDFA homegrown average starting outside corner who has earned his late 2019 starting position. He is also an $$$ expensive average starter with little upside if he starts all season.IMO Darious Williams & David Long would have better performances @ that corner spot than Hill & offer more as long tern starters. Finally, I see Troy Hill playing his last season as a Ram.

Darious Williams quickly making a name for himself with Rams

Well not being a Fan I guess. He did have that incident from a few years past getting a DUI. Mcvay(Fisher)stuck with him though,so Inguess I could see that. Troy Hill though in my book deserves a lot of credit for how he has changed his life & become a starting CB in the NFL. I don’t see...

ramsondemand.com

If I had to label him I would call him "solid" and yes that has value. Don't hate the guy but ideally he will be depth this season.

I would agree with you here. Not sure why Hill has been getting all "crazy-high expectations" here in ROD world?

It was earlier in the year ...there was Ram sports articles where Hill was the top cut prospect due to his salary cap hit. I could easily see the 3 main corners in this 2020 Staley defense being Ramsey/ Williams/ long with a big battle between rookie Burgess & Hill for the 4th & 5th Ram RESERVE corners. My thoughts back in March before the draft selection of DB Burgess..... are much the same today.

If Hill surprises me & wins the starting outside corner post it's not all negative either. Hill will be a UFA in March which will make him highly unlikely to be a Ram in 2021. A proven veteran starting outside corner will win a sizeable contract from a fat salary cap team. That puts Snead & the Rams in an excellent position for awarded 2022 CDPA's.

Trade Talk?

Can't wait til draft day! When all 31 teams improve more than the Rams.:confused:

ramsondemand.com

 

[Rams43]

I would not be in the least surprised to see Williams seize that starting job opposite Ramsey.

May or may not be by opening day, but at some point I think it’s gonna happen. He’s simply a better CB than Hill and Staley will want his best 5 secondary starters on the field.

 

[Merlin]

Down and distance plays a part. If he took the first look away & had the out covered then he did his job. Still had good coverage because he has good ball skills as well.
D.Williams & T. Hill both are in there last year if there contract.I see comps picks coming to The Rams.

In short yardage if you line up as a corner without dictating leverage you're giving the wideout options. The best wideouts will beat you if you give them options at the LOS in that type of situation because a quick timing pass and a free release are going to win. Do that bullshit vs a guy like Rogers and he'll first down your ass all the way down the field with quick passes.

Re: Williams & Hill and their FA status... I suspect Williams is going to get a real chance to start at this level in 2020. And he's an RFA after this season so he ain't going anywhere. If he steps up and plays well the Rams will be able to squeeze a low cost 2021 out of him if they want.

 

[Memento]

Anyway, about Hill...I wouldn't be shocked if he were traded for a pick or something. I'd rather use that money for Ramsey (and yes, Merlin, I'm a big fan of Ramsey).

 

[So Ram]

In short yardage if you line up as a corner without dictating leverage you're giving the wideout options. The best wideouts will beat you if you give them options at the LOS in that type of situation because a quick timing pass and a free release are going to win. Do that bullshit vs a guy like Rogers and he'll first down your ass all the way down the field with quick passes.

Re: Williams & Hill and their FA status... I suspect Williams is going to get a real chance to start at this level in 2020. And he's an RFA after this season so he ain't going anywhere. If he steps up and plays well the Rams will be able to squeeze a low cost 2021 out of him if they want.

Right on !!

Thanks 4 solid reply. Hope all has been well.

-JJ was the worst at giving a cushion & 1st downs on 3rd & short. Then get burned deep when The Rams would finally take a lead.

D. Williams being a RFA is great 4 The Rams. He really showed promise & to add D.Long in the mix as well.

Talk about T. Hill ?? Troy Hill Ain’t no Ty Hill. Speaking of Aint’s , Robey Coleman did an excellent job as a Ram!!! It shows the depth of Rams CB’s.

Aubrey Pleasant does a GREAT job Coaching & mentoring his group.
I think just the fact of the way he bonds well & his relationships. Look at Peters & Talib. The trade 4 RAMsey in mid-season was interesting the way that all went down.I think it under estimated the job he does.(which is a good thing 4 Ram Fans).

Snishers first draft with all those RG111 picks was brutal.Well excellent trade back for Brockers though.To think The Rams botched the RG111 pick with Washington’s NUMBER 2 pick for Greg Robinson. (Why not trade that pick). Still kills me thinking about it. Thank God 4 Aaron Donald.

As 4 the CB alignment?? I’m not sure when or what a CB should do ? I think though Pete Carroll does an excellent job with his CB’s & DB’s.They really make a QB work & think.

Richard Sherman was a good signing for SF. Good mentoring. Trent Williams will be tough.

Peterson is a great as well. 2 HOF players when said & done.

 

[oldnotdead]

Let's put this into context. Hill is entering his 5th season and his play should be not only better but more consistent. You never know what guy is going to show up play from play to play. You can't have a guy like that after 4 years. The only thing Hill is consistent with is his inconsistency. He's not going to get better, he is what he is and it's time to upgrade. Williams IMO outplayed Hill last year and he's was a second-year guy often times playing SCB which is far more demanding technique-wise than a boundary CB.

It's time to quit accepting mediocrity and calling it good enough. IMO the whole idea is to continually upgrade the talent on the roster. You can't use him in press-man coverage which is why he is always playing in an off technique. A good WR will feast on an inconsistent CB playing that technique. Too many times he's inconsistent which makes him dead meat. At a cap of $4.4M, that's too high of a price to pay for a guy that is a backup level talent with limited versatility.

He's got a dead cap of $500K and would put back $3.9M into the cap and with all the cap wrangling going on that is almost 40% of what the NFL is asking for in terms of reduction all in a backup. IMO the Rams either trade him or release him with release looming if the cap reduction becomes reality. Either way, I don't see a major loss with both Williams and Burgess on the roster.