Troy Hill

[Merlin]

Wanted to take a look at him given all the crazy-high expectations he's received among the faithful and see whether my memory of how he played was accurate. I haven't really nuked the secondary, have looked at the safeties quite a bit but the CBs not so much and mainly because of the midseason mini-rebuild. Basically I feel like it's really hard to grade a guy like, say, Ramsey (and yes I'm not a fan of his but still want to be fair) when he didn't get a camp and is thrown into the defense like he was. Truth is the extent to which these guys know the defense and can play fast really matters in terms of their effectiveness.

But Hill... He's a guy I can look at a bit and make a determination on him because he's been here and knows what's up. Also, my take for the record before I begin is that he's an up 'n down guy. He can have games where he looks fucking legit followed by games where he looks like a UDFA. I dislike that greatly. My preference is consistency, so I'd rather have a guy who consistently puts up average play than a dude who I can't count on and don't know what I'm gonna get.

But I may be wrong admittedly. So gonna take my time and put up some stills starting with one of the games where our defense got gashed (Dallas) and see how he did. As usual I'll put up really good and really bad snaps and then summarize a bit based on what I see. That's just a bit easier than doing every play which would be too much.

First Dallas play from scrimmage here and he's drawn Cooper (#19) who is in motion and will be in man coverage

At the snap Hill shows outside leverage and we see it's a double with Rapp providing the inside support

I don't like Hill's technique here at all, he is too far off the receiver and more concerned about protecting the outside leverage and himself from being beaten deep than allowing the receiver to position himself for an uncontested catch.

Top of the route here and Cooper snaps it off. Hill did not close that lateral cushion (he should be right there at Cooper's back) and the separation as a result is that Cooper is wide open. Rapp flipped his hips around a little quick and ran himself out on the other side so what is left is a throw 'n catch for the QB but he misses it.

End result is incomplete pass but the snap was a poor one for both Rams DBs.

 

[den-the-coach]

@Merlin I happen to agree with your assessment, Hill can be up down, looking like a perennial pro bowler one week and cannot cover a bed the next. Over the years, he's become more consistent, so maybe this is the year, he puts it all together and having Ramsey on the other side, should make Hill better.

 

[Merlin]

That's the only noteworthy snap from the Dallas game because Hill was injured (thumb) which kept him out the following week vs SF. I am tempted to change this to a Darious Williams thread though because holy Jesus did that young dude have himself a game when Hill went out.

 

[Faceplant]

Williams > Hill. I just have a feeling about that. Hill has always worried me...

 

[Reddog99]

I'll be following this thread for sure. I wasnt much of a fan of Hills until this last year so I'd definitely like to see his play broke down. I didn't pay much attention to Williams so he would be cool to look into as well if that's what you decide to do.

 

[Memento]

Williams was fucking amazing for us down the stretch. I can't say enough about him. He deserves to start over Hill.

 

[Merlin]

Gonna hit up some @Cards (Week 13).

Pre-snap Hill is bottom screen here, manned up and playing inside leverage vs 14

Right after the snap we see the good Hill, with his full focus on the receiver and properly in his grill

Murray checks and sees Hill right on his receiver

Ball is blocked by the DL but Hill is in position stride for stride. Now maybe a great throw beats him here but I call this play a win

 

[Psycho_X]

Hill is serviceable but I think we’ve seen the ceiling and he can have mental lapses. All though, he has improved a lot over the years so I give him credit because I did not like him at all a couple years ago. But I think that ceiling has been reached. But with Ramsey here he will almost always get favorable matchups so should be adequate.

but agree with some above that I am excited to see Williams this year and think he’ll be the starter opposite Ramsey most of the time. He’s got some real potential.

 

[Merlin]

Here's a short yardage situation where the bad Hill appears. He's top of the screen.

At the snap he's not dictating via leverage one way or the other, but allowing the receiver to choose. Also when you're squared up there you'd better be one of two things... One, a far better athlete than the other guy, or two, pressing him with your hands. Hill is off him though.

At the drop Hill is beat, with the wideout crossing over and his hips in the wrong direction.

Beat but thankfully the play didn't go to his man

 

[Merlin]

Also I find the way he leaves his fucking mouthpiece hanging to be irritating as fuck. Has to be said.

3rd and 9 Hill is top of the screen here. Formation suggests he's about to get some action too.

At the snap he's in man and playing off and is aligned near the first down marker.

Outside leverage now and you can see the first down marker. The bad Hill has shown up and not only was playing off coverage at the snap but now is biting on the wideout going deep (in this situation very unlikely), which means his outside leverage is lost. Right now the wideout can beat him easily to the inside or outside. A good QB would know right now that he's going to get the first down but fortunately it's the Cards and their rookie QB.

At the top of the route (broken off at the first down marker surprise surprise) the receiver chooses inside and is wide open but fortunately for us Fowler busted that shit all up

Scramble drill and incomplete. Overall a win for the defense but a good offense and QB converts that easily because of poor CB play.

 

[Loyal]

We need the next Kim Herring...." ~ Merlin
@Merlin

 

[Merlin]

We need the next Kim Herring...." ~ Merlin
@Merlin

If I was his dad his name would have been "Red."

But since we're talkin corners here how bouts the next Daryl Henley?

 

[A.J. Hicks]

Also I find the way he leaves his fucking mouthpiece hanging to be irritating as fuck. Has to be said.

I noticed the mouth piece thing out from him but that was after Ramsey came over and that's what Ramsey does with his mouth piece.

Ramsey has said along the lines of he is leaving it out to let the receiver know he will be running his mouth all game long.

But earlier this offseason Ramsey had some tweets that made me wonder if he was going to be changing his ways.

Thanks for the Hill cut ups.

 

[Loyal]

If I was his dad his name would have been "Red."

But since we're talkin corners here how bouts the next Daryl Henley?

HOFER Candidate!

 

[CGI_Ram]

Fun read!

 

[Merlin]

Here we go in Atlanta, Hill is manned up on the motion wideout

At the snap he's ten yards off top of the screen

Here we can see he's sorta taking the outside leverage and I say "sorta" because he's drifting back as he does so and it's this style of coverage that gives both space and options to the route runner.

At this point you can see the QB knows where the ball is going, which is where the wideout has every option but the nine.

A deep out for a gimme first down? You don't say.

Easy.

 

[Merlin]

Here he is on a first down, bottom of the screen playing off

At the fake he's got a nice cushion

His receiver crosses the first down marker (35) and we see Hill still playing way off. In fact I am certain that his responsibilities don't include a four yard cushion with the wideout at the first down marker

Now this is a very telling still IMO. It shows two CBs who don't have good awareness of where the first down marker is and who are playing way too soft. Seeing Hill do this doesn't surprise me but that's Ramsey top of the screen. Now generally Ramsey doesn't do that btw, but you see the same issue where BOTH of those wideouts can break either direction for an easy completion. Shit coverage to my eye gents and in fact this won't be a completion against Hill because the ball will be complete to Ramsey's dude.

Take your pick Matty...

First down top of screen

 

[oldnotdead]

This is what I've been saying about Hill all along. He's going into his 5th year and he still has crap technique and has shown little "instincts" for the position. In this last play, he should have known he's got help over the top but he bites on the deep route and not the more obvious play at the marker. It's almost like he didn't have situational awareness and also didn't know he had help over the top. IMO all he's good for is trade bait at this time as Williams has shown a lot more potential in 2 years than Hill has in 4.

He simply can't play press coverage and it's why he's mostly in off coverage even when lined up on the X WR. In that last play were in a two-deep shell and Hill played it like he had no clue. I've seen this in Hill for years and have not seen the "massive" improvement being touted by the media who are simply stat driven in their analysis of a player.

There is no way he's worth the cap hit of $4.4M. Fortunately, his dead cap is only $500K. With the drafting of Burgess who can play safety and CB and the emergence of Williams, Hill is expendable, especially with that cap hit. The only reason they might keep him is due to COVID and the extra depth they might need. But that said it could open the door for Levonta Taylor who is too short to play outside but can play inside as a SCB. As a rookie and because of COVID he really doesn't have an official 40 time but the kid plays fast and appears agile.

 

[Rams4life]

Thanks for these. Awesome stuff!

 

[OldSchool]

Fun read!

If you’re an Athletic subscriber there’s a great story on Hill, they also have a trial free month right now and a sub discount. It’s a very good and deep site.