"The Wow Factor" - Real Story behind NFL to LA/Jerry Jones Merged Thread

[BuiltRamTough]

I like the way you think...

It's Valentine's Day, talking about devoirce is illegal.

 

[Mackeyser]

Lord, I don't want to get into this thread...

Actually, Les, the Stadium in LA is not required to house two teams. The deal Kroenke brokered required him to include a potential partner IF they wanted to be partners. That meant that they wouldn't just be tenants which neither the Chargers nor Raiders sought nor coveted.

However, if the Chargers and Raiders work it out in their home turfs, then the Rams are under no obligations to take on a 2nd team at a later time based on this relocation framework. That's important.

Moreover, the state of CA will already have four teams and they won't want a 5th team and a 3rd in the SoCal region.

Now, with all of the antipathy generated with the voters in San Diego, who knows what will happen?

It's entirely possible that voters in SD are realizing that St. Louis actually lost their team and that if they don't do something, the Rams and Chargers will be playing in Staples West and San Diego will once again be a baseball town and... that's it.

If the Chargers DO stay in San Diego, which I think the NFL is rapidly seeing is best for everyone involved including the Spanos family and the city of San Diego and the fans there, then that leaves the Raiders, but they don't have the resources to be the kind of partners that would be required. They essentially NEED a publicly funded stadium.

Jerry and Bob McNair will put the kaibosh on any move to San Antonio, but it's entirely possible that St. Louis vaults right back into the mix (presuming that the politicos don't sour on the NFL after losing the Rams in this bogus process) since it's really not likely that Oakland will put dime one into a publicly funded stadium.

Now, I have a question (and I know, I'll probably get pasted for this, but /shrug): The St. Louis proposal is said to have required Kroenke to invest something like $700M of his money, but he wouldn't own the stadium.

Is that correct?

 

[MrMotes]

Missing the point...........he didn't do it, his father did, he had NOTHING to do with it he was a college kid for fucks sake. He isn't his father is any way shape or form and in fact even fans who hated his father (rightfully so) will tell you he is a very good owner. It's like blaming one of your kids for something you did can't you see that?

We get your point.

You're missing that Jerry wasn't accusing Bidwell of moving for the money, he was stating the fact that the Cardinals organization moved for the money.

That's a fact. And that's why Bidwell's argument held no water with the other owners.

Every single one of them understands self interest (well, except the Packers who are owned by the people of Green Bay)...

 

[BuiltRamTough]

A 23 year old college kid's opinion mattered to a guy who had owned the team while said kid was still swimming in his balls? He was born two years after Bill got the team for fucks sake.

OK if you say so, he had something to do with it. But I'm not sure how you can say his opinion mattered. Not too many people who own a business will ask a kid who is 23 to have an opinion that "mattered" to the decades old family owned football team. That's a BIG reach.

Nobody knows what he said to his father or didn't say. But we DO KNOW what he said to the owners. How do we know he didnt' say that to his father? Maybe he has some level of principles that some of the other owners don't. Maybe he really does think it was wrong to allow this to happen, and he isn't the only one that thought it either.

And even if he agreed with what his father did years ago when he was 23, maybe he has changed and now thinks that isn't a good idea for teams to do and it isn't a good idea for the NFL? Do you see that?

Last word on the subject............

The apple could not have fallen FARTHER from the tree in this case. Bill Bidwell is one of the most reviled owners ever and for good reason, his son has done a ten times better job with the family business.

I'd rather have Jr. than Kroenke owning the Rams.

Btw Bidwell has been on radio waves last year talking about how much MONEY a Super Bowl brings to Arizona.

Twice the Cardinals stadium hosted a Super Bowl. Final Fours, the college championship game and many more events. Bidwell loves the money, no?

Stan wants a peice of that pie, as do all of the owners.

 

[Akrasian]

We get your point.

You're missing that Jerry wasn't accusing Bidwell of moving for the money, he was stating the fact that the Cardinals organization moved for the money.

That's a fact. And that's why Bidwell's argument held no water with the other owners.

Every single one of them understands self interest (well, except the Packers who are owned by the people of Green Bay)...

Yes, arguing that the St Louis team shouldn't move to make more money was not a good argument for the Cardinals' owner to make. The Cardinals' representative was actually the absolute worst person to speak about that. Whether he approved it at the time or not - he is worth hundreds of millions of dollars more because of it.

And frankly, it probably didn't help that the Cardinals moved to Phoenix without a top notch stadium plan. They played for years in horrible Sun Devil Stadium, and only got a good stadium eventually because the vote was combined with money for public parks and most importantly with money for MLB spring training. Frankly, without those two things it would have been voted down again in a landslide. The representative of the Cardinals arguing against a team that was going to have the best stadium in the NFL - with the plan already in place - was fairly ridiculous.

 

[bluecoconuts]

A 23 year old college kid's opinion mattered to a guy who had owned the team while said kid was still swimming in his balls? He was born two years after Bill got the team for fucks sake.

OK if you say so, he had something to do with it. But I'm not sure how you can say his opinion mattered. Not too many people who own a business will ask a kid who is 23 to have an opinion that "mattered" to the decades old family owned football team. That's a BIG reach.

Nobody knows what he said to his father or didn't say. But we DO KNOW what he said to the owners. How do we know he didnt' say that to his father? Maybe he has some level of principles that some of the other owners don't. Maybe he really does think it was wrong to allow this to happen, and he isn't the only one that thought it either.

And even if he agreed with what his father did years ago when he was 23, maybe he has changed and now thinks that isn't a good idea for teams to do and it isn't a good idea for the NFL? Do you see that?

Last word on the subject............

The apple could not have fallen FARTHER from the tree in this case. Bill Bidwell is one of the most reviled owners ever and for good reason, his son has done a ten times better job with the family business.

I'd rather have Jr. than Kroenke owning the Rams.

It's not just some 23 year old college kid's opinion, it was his son's opinion, who was going to take over the team one day. That doesn't mean he was calling the shots, but if he had an objection to it, do you think his dad wouldn't at least listen to it? That doesn't mean he has to take the advice, but he would at least listen. My father has been working in the entertainment industry for over 30 years, and while I don't know all that much about what is likely to make money and what isn't, if he is thinking about some different ideas or projects and I give my opinion on them, he takes that into consideration. Obviously I'm not telling him what projects to work on or greenlight or anything, but when I state my opinion he at least listens. Someone on the street doesn't have his ear, but I do. If I was being groomed to take over for him my opinion would be more valued.

That's not to say he put up an argument or told his dad he was all for it, but he could have protested the move if he wanted to.

Furthermore that doesn't explain why he supported Carson... That was all about two teams moving for money.. At least with the Rams they could have argued "righting the wrong" and history and all that other bullshit that was thrown out and pretended that it factored in, but with the Chargers? 50 years in San Diego.. He was willing to change up historical rivalries, move historical AFC teams to the other conference and vice versa, have two teams move so they could make money.. I'm not buying that logic.. He doesn't care about teams moving to make more money, none of the owners do, it was all about power.

Old guard owners are intimidated by the new money, they don't want to be pushed out. You think these guys don't know that some tech billionaire could squeeze them out sooner or later? It was all about power plays, and helping out their buddy. In the end money won, because at least the more they have the more likely they are to keep their team. I don't think Bidwell gives two shits about teams moving to make money, and I can point to him supporting Carson as evidence to that.

If he wasn't backing Carson, I could by that logic, but he supported them. Owners look out for themselves first, their family second, and their buddies third.

 

[bluecoconuts]

No, the stadium in LA is required to house two teams and Kroenke has agreed to that.

So he has agreed to build the stadium with office space/locker rooms/etc for two home teams like they did for the Jets/Giants.

The only question is the other team. And when.

Levi's stadium can house two teams as well. Inglewood will likely get a second team, but it's possible they don't, and that's probably more suitable for the NFL because that means three new stadiums, and three new Super Bowl sites.

 

[CoachO]

If he didn't care about the game day experience... none of this would have happened.

The game day experience in the new stadium (paid for with Stan's own $) will be the finest in the world.

For the limited privileged who will be able to afford the "experience".

 

[CoachO]

It's the opposite. Scrappy tailgating in a parking garage, or no tailgating at all will make the experience less fun and could reduce attendance. Seems like it may hurt his bottom line.

What's gonna hurt his attendance is continuing to put a subpar mediocre product on the field. He'll get his grace period this first year with the move. And again when the stadium is opened. But only look to Santa Clara for the reality of what his attendance will be.

 

[snackdaddy]

What's gonna hurt his attendance is continuing to put a subpar mediocre product on the field. He'll get his grace period this first year with the move. And again when the stadium is opened. But only look to Santa Clara for the reality of what his attendance will be.

I've seen this argument quite a bit. The Rams only had 4 winning seasons in 20 years. They'll continue that path in LA. But the fact is, 15 of those 20 years were under Georgia and her underwhelming people in charge. They ran the only successful coach out of town and followed that with the two worst coaches in team history. Probably among the worst in NFL history.

Pardon me if I don't buy into the theory that Stan has produced a loser for the last 20 years, therefore will continue in LA. For some in st. louis thats more wishful thinking. He's only 5 years in and now that the whole relocation saga is over, there is renewed focus. The team he bought was among the worst in the league personnel wise and coaching. Historically bad.

The fact is, they're not that far off. Pretty much a half decent quarterback alone makes them a playoff contender. A decent receiver or two increases those chances. The line is young and improving. They have a very good defense. Elite running back. Solid special teams. And there will certainly be more of a sense of urgency. There's no reason to think Stan will continue Georgia's path of running the team down.

 

[RamFan503]

No, the stadium in LA is required to house two teams and Kroenke has agreed to that.

So he has agreed to build the stadium with office space/locker rooms/etc for two home teams like they did for the Jets/Giants.

The only question is the other team. And when.

The point isn't the construction of the stadium, it is how many $550 million checks the owners are cashing. That would be ONE unless the Chargers or Raiduhs decide to move in and become roomies with Stan - which is seeming less and less likely as it goes on. The stadium could be built for 12 teams and unless they get a team to pony up the relocation fee - it is still half of $1.1 billion.

 

[CoachO]

I've seen this argument quite a bit. The Rams only had 4 winning seasons in 20 years. They'll continue that path in LA. But the fact is, 15 of those 20 years were under Georgia and her underwhelming people in charge. They ran the only successful coach out of town and followed that with the two worst coaches in team history. Probably among the worst in NFL history.

Pardon me if I don't buy into the theory that Stan has produced a loser for the last 20 years, therefore will continue in LA. For some in st. louis thats more wishful thinking. He's only 5 years in and now that the whole relocation saga is over, there is renewed focus. The team he bought was among the worst in the league personnel wise and coaching. Historically bad.

The fact is, they're not that far off. Pretty much a half decent quarterback alone makes them a playoff contender. A decent receiver or two increases those chances. The line is young and improving. They have a very good defense. Elite running back. Solid special teams. And there will certainly be more of a sense of urgency. There's no reason to think Stan will continue Georgia's path of running the team down.

Only five years in? He's been part of the process from the outset. And while you are correct with the raw numbers in terms of winning seasons. The first five were the same honeymoon that Stans LA dream team will enjoy. And on the heels of the GSOT this team was given the benefit of the doubt into well into the Spagnuolo era.

But make no mistake. Kroenke has been as much of the problem and even more so in the five year period since he took over total control.

Furthermore, trying to compare the fan base in the STL market to that of the front running LA market is ridiculous. They don't win. They will be playing in the biggest most extravagant EMPTY stadium in the world.

 

[drasconis]

Jerry and Bob McNair will put the kaibosh on any move to San Antonio,

At this point I would really like to see the Raiders go for it and watch Jerry try to stop it...I think they (the NFL) would lose it big time in AT court....treble damages....

Be fun to watch the NFL try to explain how that gets blocked....they have already said the Raiders meet the requirements to move - that the city they are in hasn't done enough to keep them.

 

[RamFan503]

Only five years in? He's been part of the process from the outset. And while you are correct with the raw numbers in terms of winning seasons. The first five were the same honeymoon that Stans LA dream team will enjoy. And on the heels of the GSOT this team was given the benefit of the doubt into well into the Spagnuolo era.

But make no mistake. Kroenke has been as much of the problem and even more so in the five year period since he took over total control.

Furthermore, trying to compare the fan base in the STL market to that of the front running LA market is ridiculous. They don't win. They will be playing in the biggest most extravagant EMPTY stadium in the world.

Please don't do this. Even though I didn't really care where the Rams ended up playing their games, this is just nonsense baiting of the LA fans. And I'm guessing you only know the LA fan base based on what you have been told by your local media. I'm guessing that because it is dead wrong.

LA actually supports their teams very well and pretty much always has. The Dodgers haven't exactly been playoff juggernauts yet they perennially lead the league in attendance. Up until the last 4 or 5 years (when Georgia and Shaw intentionally destroyed the team and constantly bad mouthed the city, the fans, etc in their quest to have the next city buy her allegiance), the LA Rams were ALWAYS in the top half of attendance in the entire league and had several top five and even some seasons at the very top. They still own the NFL record for attendance to a single NFL game. The Kings have almost always had great attendance. Same with the LA soccer teams, the NBA teams (the Clippers are only recently really an NBA quality team) The Angels have done very well. The Raiduhs are about the only team to not grab hold and it was mainly because they were still viewed as the Oakland Raiduhs and Davis made veiled threats of moving back to Oakland from day one.

Bottom line is that we don't appreciate anyone calling out either fan base. I get that many don't like the glee with which the LA fans talk about the Rams returning but you are just going to have to expect that and accept it. I'd be more irritated if they didn't care. Most have been respectful while talking about the return to LA and any time they have tried to lay it on the St Louis fans, we have been pretty quick to respond. This site is a Rams fan site without a geographic bias except that they now are the LA Rams just as they were the St Louis Rams from the onset of this board back in 2010.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Furthermore, trying to compare the fan base in the STL market to that of the front running LA market is ridiculous. They don't win. They will be playing in the biggest most extravagant EMPTY stadium in the world.

Lakers don't win and they play in a packed house. For a long time the Kings didn't win and they had a packed house. USC wasn't winning for a while and they had a packed house, same with UCLA.

 

[RamFan503]

Lakers don't win and they play in a packed house. For a long time the Kings didn't win and they had a packed house. USC wasn't winning for a while and they had a packed house, same with UCLA.

Yeah - forgot about the college teams. The football teams are well supported and try going to a game at Pauley Pavilion and tell me the Bruins Basketball team is not supported.

 

[CoachO]

Please don't do this. Even though I didn't really care where the Rams ended up playing their games, this is just nonsense baiting of the LA fans. And I'm guessing you only know the LA fan base based on what you have been told by your local media. I'm guessing that because it is dead wrong.

LA actually supports their teams very well and pretty much always has. The Dodgers haven't exactly been playoff juggernauts yet they perennially lead the league in attendance. Up until the last 4 or 5 years (when Georgia and Shaw intentionally destroyed the team and constantly bad mouthed the city, the fans, etc in their quest to have the next city buy her allegiance), the LA Rams were ALWAYS in the top half of attendance in the entire league and had several top five and even some seasons at the very top. They still own the NFL record for attendance to a single NFL game. The Kings have almost always had great attendance. Same with the LA soccer teams, the NBA teams (the Clippers are only recently really an NBA quality team) The Angels have done very well. The Raiduhs are about the only team to not grab hold and it was mainly because they were still viewed as the Oakland Raiduhs and Davis made veiled threats of moving back to Oakland from day one.

Bottom line is that we don't appreciate anyone calling out either fan base. I get that many don't like the glee with which the LA fans talk about the Rams returning but you are just going to have to expect that and accept it. I'd be more irritated if they didn't care. Most have been respectful while talking about the return to LA and any time they have tried to lay it on the St Louis fans, we have been pretty quick to respond. This site is a Rams fan site without a geographic bias except that they now are the LA Rams just as they were the St Louis Rams from the onset of this board back in 2010.

I was not attacking the fan base. But my opinion is that the LA market tends to lose interest when teams aren't winning.

As far as individual fans on this site. Honestly haven't been in wink go to notice whether they have tried to attack the STL fans or not. I don't begrudge them for being excited. But I'm also not gonna sugar coat things as to what I envision happening with the overall attendance of this team continues to put a similar product on the field.

Much has be said about the overwhelming season ticket push. It's a refundable $100 deposit. Let's see how many of those 60K deposits are actually used when the prices of PSLs and tickets are announced.

 

[BuiltRamTough]

Yeah - forgot about the college teams. The football teams are well supported and try going to a game at Pauley Pavilion and tell me the Bruins Basketball team is not supported.

LA is also getting another MLS franchise (LAFC).

It's a privately funded stadium in downtown LA.

The Galaxy stadium is in Carson. So that makes 2 MLS teams to go with maybe 2 NFL teams.

Will Ferrell is part owner.


View: http://youtu.be/WSiNVRUwJ8g

 

[OldSchool]

I was not attacking the fan base. But my opinion is that the LA market tends to lose interest when teams aren't winning.

As far as individual fans on this site. Honestly haven't been in wink go to notice whether they have tried to attack the STL fans or not. I don't begrudge them for being excited. But I'm also not gonna sugar coat things as to what I envision happening with the overall attendance of this team continues to put a similar product on the field.

Much has be said about the overwhelming season ticket push. It's a refundable $100 deposit. Let's see how many of those 60K deposits are actually used when the prices of PSLs and tickets are announced.

You claim to not be attacking fans yet the entirety of your last two posts do exactly that. You also act like the LA market, which your broad accusations don't deal very much with reality, would be or is the only city that what you describe would happen in.

 

[RamFan503]

I was not attacking the fan base. But my opinion is that the LA market tends to lose interest when teams aren't winning.

Not sure what you call the following.

trying to compare the fan base in the STL market to that of the front running LA market is ridiculous

And where do you get the idea that LA fans lose interest when their teams aren't winning? Bernie? Is there anything you can show that actually demonstrates that? It is a myth. I have watched virtually every pro team in LA and the turn out has been great and the fans raucous aside from the Rams last few years in the Big A.

Have you ever actually been to a game in LA? The fact is that fans love their teams and love to have fun going to games. LA is no different in that respect than any other fan base. And now the NFL is WAY more popular than it was in the early 90's.