The Truth About James Laurinaits (op @ Stl Today)

[St. Louis Vipers]

Don't get me wrong there are many positives when it comes to JL including his ability to stay healthy, wrap up, call adjustments at the line, & be a first class teammate/rep for the organization.

However when it comes down to being the best option at MLB in the NFC West JL is last on the list in The Rams division. While I completely understand that the NFC West boasts three of the top five Defenses in the NFL, I can't help but compare the Rams position by position to teams that we will inevitably need to beat in order to break this playoff drought.

In fact there are actually four MLB's that top Laurinaitis's play in what has to be the most physical division in the NFL.

Patrick Willis, MLB - SF

Navarro Bowman, MLB - SF

Bobby Wagner, MLB - SEA

Daryl Washington, MLB - ARI

Karlos Dansby, MLB - ARI (pointed out to me after my op)

Those are some of the most physically gifted LB's in the entire NFL. So why put JL at fault for not being one of the best LB's in the division, right? There are many fans that look at JL like he is Dick Butkus or something when I personally see him as Keith Brooking (who in my opinion was one of the more overrated LB's over the past 15 years) I feel as if I can count on one hand how many times JL made game changing plays over the past five years. Part of that may be because the Rams haven't played in many meaningful contests.

Many may argue that being the leading tackler for the Rams over the past 5 seasons is enough to discount this post in it's entirety. I say if you are on the field 16 games a year (which is impressive, maybe the most impressive aspect of JL's game) and your team runs a 4-3 scheme you dang well should be leading your team in tackles. Sure JL has picked off a few passes and recovered a few loose balls along the way (one forced fumble over 5 seasons). He is always around the ball. I guess I'm just looking for more of a physical presence from the middle of our defense in a division that has guys who can knock the socks off of even the most physical RB, WR, TE's.

If I was a RB and I had to choose a LB from the NFC West to meet in the hole one on one it dang sure would be JL55 every single time. I love the Rams and am a life long fan. I just think people are getting a little too comfortable with being "solid" and if you were to give me one word to describe JL's play it would be just that....solid.

 

[jjab360]

I'd like to see some of these fans who think of Laurinaitis as Dick Butkus. From what I can tell, the idea that most Rams fans think of Laurinaitis as an all-pro type player is completely unfounded.

 

[The Rammer]

Hmmm Let me think, If I'm needing to replace a LB spot which one would it be? Lets See I have a MLB that has been on a shit team 3to4 of the last 5 seasons that shows up every game and has lead us in tackles. Ogletree that had a beast year as rookie..... ohhhh yah our third LB spot is which one I'd target. Don't think Dunbar or Witherspoon are the answers for our future. Let' take a ride in this type of thinking.....

So by your reasoning since Sam Bradford is technically the 4th rated starting QB in the NFC West we should replace him? Technically, Jeff Fisher was the 4th ranked coach... lets replace him to.

MADESS YOU SAY?NO THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jrry32]

No offense but Rams fans should stop focusing on trying to find replacements for players that are quality starters and should start looking for replacements for upcoming FAs and starters that played poorly.

The Rams are not the 49ers. Don't put the cart before the horse. Once we have the talent level on this team to the point where we're a contender then we can focus on which positions we'd like to replace solid starters with elite ones at.

Right now, Laurinaitis is an above average MLB and plays important roles on this team as the defensive play-caller and a locker-room leader.

Where Laurinaitis ranks in the division is irrelevant.

 

[A55VA6]

He's not flashy, he's not incredible.. but Laurinaitis does his job and does it pretty well. He's a leader and he knows this defense very well. I think every team would want a guy like James on their team.

James may not be better than those guys listed, but in the future.. Ogletree could be. He had a great rookie year.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Who could we get that would be an upgrade? Exactly...

 

[tonyl711]

if we start getting rid of players because they aren't the best in our division would leave us in total rebuild mode. better start looking for a new MLB, OLB, the entire secondary, QB, all the WRs and TEs. like someone else said, get the roster set with solid players across the board, then you can afford to try to upgrade from solid to elite.

 

[Mister Sin]

This thread is just a shit stirrer. MLB play is based directly off of the play of the DL. More so, the DT. We Jane one solid DT, the other is just okay. If we had another powerhouse DT then JL could run free and do what these other guys do. There is a big difference between a 4-3 MLB and a 3-4 ILB.

 

[Thordaddy]

No offense but Rams fans should stop focusing on trying to find replacements for players that are quality starters and should start looking for replacements for upcoming FAs and starters that played poorly.

The Rams are not the 49ers. Don't put the cart before the horse. Once we have the talent level on this team to the point where we're a contender then we can focus on which positions we'd like to replace solid starters with elite ones at.

Right now, Laurinaitis is an above average MLB and plays important roles on this team as the defensive play-caller and a locker-room leader.

Where Laurinaitis ranks in the division is irrelevant.

Yeah that's how you build a team,we have far weaker positions than MLB and it wouldn't be hard to argue that the West boasts three or more of the top 10 lb's in the game.
What we need are people who match up better against those extraordinary linebackers JL doesn't play AGAINST those guys

 

[-X-]

It's not a popular opinion (the op) for sure, but it's worth investigating. I said in a different thread that it's not necessarily a good thing when you never hear your MLB's name during a game. It means he's not a liability, but it also means he's not registering any TFLs, sacks, ints or pass breakups. I don't think you'll find a better teammate, and I don't think you'll find a better student of the game or a more intelligent QB of a defense. I've always been a JL fan. Hell, I think I made the first highlight video of him ever. But I always thought that once the defensive line got stronger in front of him, that he was going to take off. If anything, he's just become less of a liability. And no, I'm not saying he should be making 'splash plays' all over the field in order to make me feel all warm and fuzzy about him. I just figured he'd be in the backfield more, and that his play would 'stand out' more.

There is some merit to the idea that the other ILBs in the division are better because of the fact we don't matchup well against them. But that should work in reverse as well. And I'm not looking to replace him. I just think there should be *at least* a backup on the team ready to take over at some point, because right now the depth chart behind him is empty.

 

[Thordaddy]

It's not a popular opinion (the op) for sure, but it's worth investigating. I said in a different thread that it's not necessarily a good thing when you never hear your MLB's name during a game. It means he's not a liability, but it also means he's not registering any TFLs, sacks, ints or pass breakups. I don't think you'll find a better teammate, and I don't think you'll find a better student of the game or a more intelligent QB of a defense. I've always been a JL fan. Hell, I think I made the first highlight video of him ever. But I always thought that once the defensive line got stronger in front of him, that he was going to take off. If anything, he's just become less of a liability. And no, I'm not saying he should be making 'splash plays' all over the field in order to make me feel all warm and fuzzy about him. I just figured he'd be in the backfield more, and that his play would 'stand out' more.

There is some merit to the idea that the other ILBs in the division are better because of the fact we don't matchup well against them. But that should work in reverse as well. And I'm not looking to replace him. I just think there should be *at least* a backup on the team ready to take over at some point, because right now the depth chart behind him is empty.

And I would argue that the secret to NE's defensive success is they have been solid everywhere and that they stress everyone just doing their job and we as fans fall in love with spectacular defensive plays when grind them to a halt solid defense wins more often.

 

[-X-]

And I would argue that the secret to NE's defensive success is they have been solid everywhere and that they stress everyone just doing their job and we as fans fall in love with spectacular defensive plays when grind them to a halt solid defense wins more often.

Could be. I've said all I can say about it. To further argue my position would put me on the defensive and make me want to prove it. And I'm not that invested in making him look less than what others think of him. I understand he's popular.

 

[Thordaddy]

Could be. I've said all I can say about it. To further argue my position would put me on the defensive and make me want to prove it. And I'm not that invested in making him look less than what others think of him. I understand he's popular.

K but I'm not stating my position from the "popularity" POV , I'm just SURE he not the weakest link and that some of the spectacular plays others make are because he's where he is supposed to be .
I would agree we need to strengthen ourselves behind him but this thread has had a "priority" flavor which IMO is unwarranted and pretty well "all I can say".

 

[-X-]

Didn't say he was the weakest link.

 

[Zaphod]

K but I'm not stating my position from the "popularity" POV , I'm just SURE he not the weakest link and that some of the spectacular plays others make are because he's where he is supposed to be .
I would agree we need to strengthen ourselves behind him but this thread has had a "priority" flavor which IMO is unwarranted and pretty well "all I can say".

Exactly, safety is the weakest link on defense right now. Then corner, then to me it's a close race between defensive tackle and outside linebacker. But I will say that we need depth at linebacker and defensive tackle as well.

Just like I'll say that we need depth on the offensive line.

 

[Ramifications]

It is true that football is a team sport.

Countless big plays have been given up by our defense in recent years, in addition to failed individual matchups (Jenkins whiffed on tackling Julio Jones on a long score in the ATL game), but also due to poor gap control and discipline. Quinn played noticeably better against the run this year, but Chris Long doesn't make a lot of plays in the run game.

Part of the reason for poor gap control may be lack of talent at some positions. If a player can't avoid or get off a block, they can't fulfill their assignment and responsibility. Even talented players like Ogletree and Brockers are very inexperienced, the dark side of being young.

If we upgrade FS and CB starter/depth with Finnegan possibly gone, the defense will play better overall, Laurinaitis won't have to cover as much ground and will look better (but realistically he doesn't have the range in run support or coverage of the other MLB/ILBs in the division).

The team (and defense in this case) is like a boat with lot of holes. Even if a hole seems a little bigger or in a more vulnerable spot, focusing on one hole isn't going to stop the boat from sinking. Opposing game plans on offense and defense know where we are most exposed and vulnerable. As long as there are multiple holes, the water will continue to rush in. This is a big reason, with a great DL, I think Clowney would be a luxury pick. While we need a LB (unless Dunbar returns), a third LB will probably be a part time player and may not be on the field in third down situations, and we already have a very good one (if not great) in JL and a potential Pro Bowler in tree. But the secondary needs work in several places, so I hope it is a point of emphasis and gets a lot of attention in the draft.

 

[Angry Ram]

Don't get me wrong there are many positives when it comes to JL including his ability to stay healthy, wrap up, call adjustments at the line, & be a first class teammate/rep for the organization.

However when it comes down to being the best option at MLB in the NFC West JL is last on the list in The Rams division. While I completely understand that the NFC West boasts three of the top five Defenses in the NFL, I can't help but compare the Rams position by position to teams that we will inevitably need to beat in order to break this playoff drought.

In fact there are actually four MLB's that top Laurinaitis's play in what has to be the most physical division in the NFL.

Patrick Willis, MLB - SF

Navarro Bowman, MLB - SF

Bobby Wagner, MLB - SEA

Daryl Washington, MLB - ARI

Karlos Dansby, MLB - ARI (pointed out to me after my op)

Those are some of the most physically gifted LB's in the entire NFL. So why put JL at fault for not being one of the best LB's in the division, right? There are many fans that look at JL like he is Dick Butkus or something when I personally see him as Keith Brooking (who in my opinion was one of the more overrated LB's over the past 15 years) I feel as if I can count on one hand how many times JL made game changing plays over the past five years. Part of that may be because the Rams haven't played in many meaningful contests.

Many may argue that being the leading tackler for the Rams over the past 5 seasons is enough to discount this post in it's entirety. I say if you are on the field 16 games a year (which is impressive, maybe the most impressive aspect of JL's game) and your team runs a 4-3 scheme you dang well should be leading your team in tackles. Sure JL has picked off a few passes and recovered a few loose balls along the way (one forced fumble over 5 seasons). He is always around the ball. I guess I'm just looking for more of a physical presence from the middle of our defense in a division that has guys who can knock the socks off of even the most physical RB, WR, TE's.

If I was a RB and I had to choose a LB from the NFC West to meet in the hole one on one it dang sure would be JL55 every single time. I love the Rams and am a life long fan. I just think people are getting a little too comfortable with being "solid" and if you were to give me one word to describe JL's play it would be just that....solid.

Why is this "the truth?" It's just all your opinion.

Different players have different roles, and James Laurinaitis' is no different. There are always going to be players that are better on other teams. You can't just look at those and say "WE HAZ DO BETTER NOW!!!" There are a lot of teams that are WORSE than what the Rams have. I'll worry about James when he becomes a consistent issue with the team (ala Cortland Finnegan, Chris Williams, Daryl Richardson, etc).

 

[St. Louis Vipers]

Why is this "the truth?" It's just all your opinion.

Different players have different roles, and James Laurinaitis' is no different. There are always going to be players that are better on other teams. You can't just look at those and say "WE HAZ DO BETTER NOW!!!" There are a lot of teams that are WORSE than what the Rams have. I'll worry about James when he becomes a consistent issue with the team (ala Cortland Finnegan, Chris Williams, Daryl Richardson, etc).

The title of this OP is irrelevant. It more or less was referring to Rams fans who blindly praise JL as a greek god on the field (I'm sure the majority of Rams fans on here understand what he is and take him for just that).

There were many valid points made above. I do not think JL is to be thrown to the dogs. He has been a solid player for the Rams.

As I originally posted in the STL Today Forum...."I enjoy football specifically Rams football and when we aren't winning games and going to the playoffs I see it as more than acceptable to question every single aspect of the team. I'm not on here trolling, just trying to promote conversation and heighten fan awareness. I appreciate you input and respect your opinion. I will stand by my opinion that the Rams would be better off with a much more physical presence at the MLB position."

Bottom line is...I would prefer a playmaker in the middle of our defense, not a solid player. I'm not saying the Rams can't win with JL it just seems like at times he is physically overmatched by the larger OL within the NFC West. I understand there is a direct correlation between the interior DL and the MLB. It would be nice to have a few guys like Ray Agnew or Jeff Zgonina out there to take up some space. I have faith in Brockers and Langford was serviceable. Hopefully the Rams will draft/acquire some big boys to clog up that middle and we will see JL along with the rest of this run defense take a step in the right direction. I appreciate JL's ability to cover backs and TE's (Ogletree will be better). If I had to choose b/t a MLB that plays the run well or plays the pass well...I'm going run all day.

One forced fumble on 634 combined tackles just doesn't cut it in my book...unless you are picking off 5+ passes a year (and he's not).

 

[OnceARam]

We run a 4-3 defense. The MLB position in a 4-3 is not that important. He just needs to make tackles on a consistent basis. He also helps in 3rd down packages because he can cover the short to intermediate zone.

The wide side LB is there for the splash plays. The weak side LB is there for pass coverage and to maintain the edge.

Is JL one of our top 5 issues on defense? No.

 

[Angry Ram]

The title of this OP is irrelevant.

Actually, it's very relevant. You claim that it's "the truth", with no evidence to back that "truth" up. The title is very important to any article, blog, article, etc. That's the first thing people see.

It more or less was referring to Rams fans who blindly praise JL as a greek god on the field (I'm sure the majority of Rams fans on here understand what he is and take him for just that).

So those who don't view him as a problem are blindly prasing him? He's a very good player. That's all he is.

There were many valid points made above. I do not think JL is to be thrown to the dogs. He has been a solid player for the Rams.

So what seems to be the problem? Many teams have players like JL.

As I originally posted in the STL Today Forum...."I enjoy football specifically Rams football and when we aren't winning games and going to the playoffs I see it as more than acceptable to question every single aspect of the team. I'm not on here trolling, just trying to promote conversation and heighten fan awareness. I appreciate you input and respect your opinion. I will stand by my opinion that the Rams would be better off with a much more physical presence at the MLB position."

Oh, OK. See here's the thing, when a team hasn't been going to the playoffs, there's always more than one aspect that needs improving. When you try to find and single out a player (any player) you're ignoring other parts of the team that are consistent problems. What would you rather do...use a high pick or spending big bucks on a replacement MLB to get your "physical" presence, while another position gets shafted such as, say guard or safety? Or would rather keep JL and use w/e resources to acquire a couple more upgrades and win what already is here?

Bottom line is...I would prefer a playmaker in the middle of our defense, not a solid player.

I'd prefer the all around, consistent player over a playmaker. If he's only good for the highlight play, don't need him.

I'm not saying the Rams can't win with JL it just seems like at times he is physically overmatched by the larger OL within the NFC West. I understand there is a direct correlation between the interior DL and the MLB. It would be nice to have a few guys like Ray Agnew or Jeff Zgonina out there to take up some space. I have faith in Brockers and Langford was serviceable. Hopefully the Rams will draft/acquire some big boys to clog up that middle and we will see JL along with the rest of this run defense take a step in the right direction. I appreciate JL's ability to cover backs and TE's (Ogletree will be better). If I had to choose b/t a MLB that plays the run well or plays the pass well...I'm going run all day.

The Rams run defense ranked 9th this year WITH their current guys. And that includes the terrible games against Frank Gore and DeMarco Murray earlier on. I'd say these guys got better and played the run pretty fuckin well. And that's on TOP of his coverage skills.

One forced fumble on 634 combined tackles just doesn't cut it in my book...unless you are picking off 5+ passes a year (and he's not).

So is this the standard you're going by? What about all the important aspects he brings on field...the sure fire tackler, the intelligence, the ability to call plays defensive audibles, toughness, limited mistakes. Also off field: captain, locker room leader, etc etc.

I just don't get it when fans look for problems with their team, they look at guys that clearly aren't. So far on both boards, I've seen Sam Bradford, JL, Chris Long, Janoris Jenkins, Scott Wells, and even Robert Quinn before this year as players that "should be replaced." Now don't confuse "problems" with "improvement." Many, if not all, need to get better. However, I don't believe replacing and hope for something better than letting the guys play.