The trenches

[Tano]

Concerns are fair because so far depth does not appear great, but again, hopefully only one or two players will provide that depth being Noteboom & Anchrum. Brian Allen has transformed himself, he was a 4th round pick and expected to take over John Sullivan, but physical strength was an issue and he was injured in 2019 & had COVID last season.

Allen spent a ton of time becoming stronger and it was obvious from day one of training camp, which has propelled him to being the starting center and quite frankly, he's the only natural Center on the roster Jordan Meredith notwithstanding, as Coleman Shelton in college played all along the offensive line.

The new OL Coach Kevin Carberry has me concerned, he was late to training camp because of COVID and his unit was underwhelming in the first preseason game albeit they were lower tier guys with the exception of Evans & Anchrum. Two more games left, with hope things get better, but IMO, I'm just hoping for good health with the first unit including Brian Allen because I'm not that confident beyond Boom & Anchrum as Bobby Evans appears to have gone backwards in his development to this point.

Bobby Evans played terrible in pass protection against Green Bay and just isn't a guard. He needs to be a right tackle only. Do we have room for another player that can only play one position on the OL.

We already have that in Havenstein. And he is just average in pass protection but excellent as a run blocker.

 

[Psycho_X]

My random opinions for what they are worth...

- Allen has definitely increased his strength and body while also gaining experience so he will be better than he was.
- Blythe was terrible against anyone with power and I don't think Allen will get pushed as badly as Blythe did. How he handles the mental side is TBD which is highly important for a center.
- So I assume Allen will be an improvement over Blythe. How much of an improvement is to be seen and it still might be a mistake not drafting a top prospect at the position or bringing in a veteran.
- Our depth scares the shit out of me on the interior oline so pray to the injury gods nothing happens to a starter. Again this goes back to it might be a mistake not drafting a prospect for depth at the very least
- So in all, if our oline stays healthy I think we have improved from last year. Hopefully it'll be enough of an improvement and depth doesn't come into play.

 

[Tano]

My random opinions for what they are worth...

- Allen has definitely increased his strength and body while also gaining experience so he will be better than he was.
- Blythe was terrible against anyone with power and I don't think Allen will get pushed as badly as Blythe did. How he handles the mental side is TBD which is highly important for a center.
- So I assume Allen will be an improvement over Blythe. How much of an improvement is to be seen and it still might be a mistake not drafting a top prospect at the position or bringing in a veteran.
- Our depth scares the shit out of me on the interior oline so pray to the injury gods nothing happens to a starter. Again this goes back to it might be a mistake not drafting a prospect for depth at the very least
- So in all, if our oline stays healthy I think we have improved from last year. Hopefully it'll be enough of an improvement and depth doesn't come into play.

Completely agree with your assessment

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

Allen & Shelton: These two have always been the best options for McVay. Both have long experience (which matters at this position) playing center. But only Allen has NFL starting experience. In 2019 he played 563 snaps before being injured. In 2020 Kromer demoted Allen to play the markedly inferior Blythe who was a Kromer favorite. Blythe gave up 4 sacks and even more pressures. In approximately half the snaps Allen only gave up one sack and fewer pressures. Simply going back and comparing the blocking of Allen vs Blythe reveals the truth and is part of the reason Kromer lost his job. Allen is the logical choice for compelling reasons. First, he is the only player with starting experience at center which is proved by Corbett is the hardest position to play. In his 2019 starts, he played much better than he was given credit for having done as a first-year starter. It's clear from the reports Allen continued to work on his game and is much better prepared to play the position than in 2019. This shows a good work ethic and commitment. Allen has the mobility to execute any scheme Carberry wishes to install.

Somebody posted PFF grades for our OL like last week or something (Allen's were from 2019). The lowest score on there was Allen's run blocking (I think it was 45.5). Terrifying to me, since I think the best pass pro is run blocking.

Also I think some organizations feel like there's less of a difference between top rated OLinemen and JAGS than there is at skill positions, in terms of how it benefits the team--maybe McSnead see it that way: that OL should receive the least investment because of that? Maybe they feel OL quality is more about getting coached up, gelling as a unit, etc. than it is for skill positions. At any rate as a guy on a couch I strongly disagree--and casual fans were 1-0 against Rams FO in 2019 about OL. I think letting Saffold walk cost us another run.

Also have you seen the D linemen/edgers teams have been adding the last few drafts, while we tread water on OL???

 

[snackdaddy]

I was one who wanted the best center available in this year's draft. But lets try to get into the minds of Snead and McVay. They're in a win now mode. Was there really going to be a center available that could come in and start right away? Without a first round pick? Our first pick was late in the second.

Lets say they do what people have been advocating the past couple years. Draft linemen early and often. What do they do with guys who are still in the progressing phase of their careers? Guys whose problem was inexperience a couple years ago. Do they cut bait and start over? With a new group of inexperienced guys? End up with the same problem they had in 2019?

Looking at that I can see their reasoning. If they were rebuilding I could see it. They would have time to let the youngsters learn and develop into serviceable linemen. But they aren't rebuilding. They don't have the time for that. They went all in and want to win now. They don't want to draft, develop, let them walk and start over every couple years.

 

[RamsOfCastamere]

- Allen has definitely increased his strength and body while also gaining experience so he will be better than he was.
- Blythe was terrible against anyone with power and I don't think Allen will get pushed as badly as Blythe did. How he handles the mental side is TBD which is highly important for a center.
- So I assume Allen will be an improvement over Blythe. How much of an improvement is to be seen and it still might be a mistake not drafting a top prospect at the position or bringing in a veteran.

Why do you assume this? Even though Allen is stronger, he's still smaller than Blythe. I think he will be pushed around by big, power guys just as much.

I don't he improved enough in a year where he was rehabbing and dealing with COVID to be better than Blythe. I'm expecting him to improve from being worst than Blythe to maybe just as good as Blythe.

I am hoping he's better...

 

[Rams43]

Regular luker here, rarely post. I must say, I am of the belief the game is won and lost in the trenches. I have long been an advocate of boosting our lines when possible. I have posted my concern about our OL...namely the center position. On draft day, I could not believe we drafted Tutu over Creed Humphrey. Drove me nuts.

For the record, I am a huge believer in our front office and McVay. As a fan since '78, I can't recall feeling better about our organization. I trust them.

For the life of me, I couldn't (and still can't) understand why we would take a 4th/5th WR during our "win now" window when we have glaring needs our on OL (more next year/future than this year). To me, you secure your foundation on both sides of the ball and work outwards.

I am extremely concerned that Allen, who I had very high hopes for and has disappointed to-date, has been named our starter. My concern doesn't come from the rhetoric we are hearing.....it's possible he's worked his a$$ off and is a better player for it. But rather, that Evans has been such a disappointment that Allen has been thrust into a position in order to get our best 5 on the field. If the latter is true, I credit the coaches for seeing and making the necessary adjustments.

Where I struggle is how we could pass on a potential 8-year starter at center that would help solidify our OL (i.e. add another "rock") so that we could draft a player that may not be all that necessary (the term "gadget player" comes to mind with Tutu). I just think we would be in such a better position (run game included) had we made the obvious move.

Again, I love Mc/snead and the Rams. I want Tutu to prove me SO wrong. But damn, I am nervous about our OL's ability to run block (specifically) and protect our franchise QB.

Sorry if this comes across as being a debbie-downer; not my intent. I just REALLY hope Allen and our OL is up to the task!

Wisconsinram

Several things here, Wisconsin.

First, you should post more. I enjoyed this one greatly and it started a damned good and very timely thread. Well done, sir.

Snead/McVay almost always take skill players that they like over the trenches with their early picks so we shouldn’t be very surprised by Atwell over Humphrey.

I could see the logic of going for it with Atwell over any available OL player when thinking in terms of a 2 year SB window. As you say, we can revisit this pick in 5 years to see how both players work out.

Honestly, I think this Ram OL is at least 7 deep and possibly even more. IOW, even a Creed Humphrey would have been doubtful to see the field this year, anyway.

The more I hear and learn about Atwell the more I like. This kid is small but he is a football player that loves the game, not just a track star. This pick could prove to be a brilliant move with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[dang]

I was one who wanted the best center available in this year's draft. But lets try to get into the minds of Snead and McVay. They're in a win now mode. Was there really going to be a center available that could come in and start right away? Without a first round pick? Our first pick was late in the second.

Lets say they do what people have been advocating the past couple years. Draft linemen early and often. What do they do with guys who are still in the progressing phase of their careers? Guys whose problem was inexperience a couple years ago. Do they cut bait and start over? With a new group of inexperienced guys? End up with the same problem they had in 2019?

Looking at that I can see their reasoning. If they were rebuilding I could see it. They would have time to let the youngsters learn and develop into serviceable linemen. But they aren't rebuilding. They don't have the time for that. They went all in and want to win now. They don't want to draft, develop, let them walk and start over every couple years.

Last I checked Creed Humphrey is slated to start at OC for the Chefs (ahead of Austin Blythe).

 

[blackbart]

I like the reports we get from Jourdan but, I don’t think she comes close to what the Rams scouting team and brain trust has available.

Still I was blown away by the pick too.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Oline depth looks scary but let's also take into account that Noteboom isn't playing in preseason. Anchrum who's been playing RT mostly but got some work in at guard with the Raiders and he seems to be getting good reviews, even during the preseason.

It doesn't seem like we've been cross-training as much this season and perhaps that's an issue but if Anchrum can play the interior too then I think we're probably set for the season with one high end backup at LT and another pretty decent guy at RT/G.

Evans may be quickly losing his shot as 1st up off the bench for the interior.

 

[PARAM]

Is Evans really the reason Allen gets the starting C job? I don't know. I believe in the trenches being the difference. But.....

what if Allen has worked so hard and improved so much, he showed better than Corbett? And faced with the decision, 'do we go with Allen/Evans or Allens/Corbett' they decided on the latter?

As far as why Tutu instead of Creed Humphrey, I trust McSnead. We'll see how it plays out.

 

[PhillyRam]

Why do you assume this? Even though Allen is stronger, he's still smaller than Blythe. I think he will be pushed around by big, power guys just as much.

I don't he improved enough in a year where he was rehabbing and dealing with COVID to be better than Blythe. I'm expecting him to improve from being worst than Blythe to maybe just as good as Blythe.

I am hoping he's better...

Jason Kelcie for the Eagles is 6-3 282 and he might be a borderline Hall of Famer. So size can be a little overrated.

 

[Merlin]

Evans may be quickly losing his shot as 1st up off the bench for the interior.

Yeah I think that ship has sailed. I'm guessing he's 3 on that depth chart overall behind Boom and Anchrum.

That's a big drop for a guy who slotted as a starter in the preseason.

 

[OldSchool]

A Wiscon guy loving offensive line play? That’s a new one! Sarcasm aside it’s great to have another trench brother!

I agree we’ve not put enough attention to the line the last few years. We have a lot of free agents coming up, one very obvious older lineman and some inconsistent play up front.

I dont like the “it’s good enough” line of thought but it seems to be something we live with for a few years with limited cap space and no first round pick for a few years. Yes good linemen can come later in the draft but good left tackles later in the draft are much more rare.

Please keep posting this was timely and well stated.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

Well, if we indeed have an SB window, a rookie OL isn't really going to contribute much to that. OL take a while to develop and become reliable and consistent. I was also shocked by the pick, but Tutu can potentially contribute something to the team this year that an OL wouldn't be able to for a few years.

This is not an easy thing for me to admit, cause I was DL/OL in highschool too but, I also think football has shifted and the trenches aren't as important anymore. I've seen it plenty of times where a great QB gameplans around an unstoppable DL with short quick release passes. And McVay has shown that its possible to scheme runs that make life easier on the OL.

No doubt we need OL support in the future, but for this year only, maybe a fast little rookie WR has more to offer than a rookie OL.

 

[RamsOfCastamere]

Jason Kelcie for the Eagles is 6-3 282 and he might be a borderline Hall of Famer. So size can be a little overrated.

Touche, but size does help if your technique isn't superb.

 

[Loyal]

I share these concerns as well and was surprised they did not add beef in the draft. They have earned my trust though, so we roll with what we got.

Also, man.... Some of you HAVE to be retired or have a shit ton of time to yourselves to be reviewing that much film and posting novellas multiple times per day. Kudos to you!

Thanks . (note the brevity of my response, ya bastid!)

 

[Loyal]

I was one who wanted the best center available in this year's draft. But lets try to get into the minds of Snead and McVay. They're in a win now mode. Was there really going to be a center available that could come in and start right away? Without a first round pick? Our first pick was late in the second.

Lets say they do what people have been advocating the past couple years. Draft linemen early and often. What do they do with guys who are still in the progressing phase of their careers? Guys whose problem was inexperience a couple years ago. Do they cut bait and start over? With a new group of inexperienced guys? End up with the same problem they had in 2019?

Looking at that I can see their reasoning. If they were rebuilding I could see it. They would have time to let the youngsters learn and develop into serviceable linemen. But they aren't rebuilding. They don't have the time for that. They went all in and want to win now. They don't want to draft, develop, let them walk and start over every couple years.

I don't know...Do you keep relying on late rounders and UDFA'a that have to develop with a low ceiling? Or do you get Creed Humphrey(s) in the 2nd. who also needs some coaching but the ceiling and learning curve is higher and faster? You never know of course. We all want to win now, but sometimes you have to eat your veggies instead of the coconut cream pie....

 

[snackdaddy]

I don't know...Do you keep relying on late rounders and UDFA'a that have to develop with a low ceiling? Or do you get Creed Humphrey(s) in the 2nd. who also needs some coaching but the ceiling and learning curve is higher and faster? You never know of course. We all want to win now, but sometimes you have to eat your veggies instead of the coconut cream pie....

Now we have a the benefit of hindsight. Do we know Humphreys will be better than Allen/Corbett? Humphreys looks like a starter in KC. But we'll have to wait a while before we know if he truly is starter material.

In 2018/2019 the Rams drafted Noteboom, Allen, Evans and Edwards. Edwards was the lowest pick but looks like the best of that bunch.

Like I said, I did want the best available center in the draft with our first pick. And was disappointed they didn't take one. But I can also see their point of view.

All things being equal the more experienced guys should give them a better chance than a new draft class of blockers. Two years ago inexperience was their biggest problem when those guys were forced into action sooner than expected. And they don't want to wait for the development process because they want to win now.

I can't say I agree with their decisions. But I can also see why they made the decision not to draft any linemen.

 

[FarNorth]

I dont like the “it’s good enough” line of thought but it seems to be something we live with for a few years with limited cap space and no first round pick for a few years. Yes good linemen can come later in the draft but good left tackles later in the draft are much more rare.

Think you nailed this. It may not be popular to say this as I know from experience. But imo the Rams have been constrained the last couple of years, and still are now, by both dead cap money and lack of high draft picks.

If we had the cap space seems likely the team would have been in the market for an established center or lineman. If we had higher picks we could have drafted a premium center or at minimum have traded down for an extra pick and still found a pretty good one such as Wisconsin advocated.

I'm hopeful nevertheless that our oline will be ok or better this year. But we are rolling with a largely young line and unproven players at center and for depth.

Same thing at RB. We are thin and inexperienced after the loss of Akers. Henderson's past injuries are a cause for concern. I speculate that we may be limited right now by cap space from signing an established blocker and physical runner. Seems likely we may at most add a player cut from another team with an inexpensive contract.

I support the win now approach, and think that Snead has done a great job with available money and picks. But it presents some challenges too. Hoping it works out this year with the o-line and the running game.