The trenches

[Wisconsinram]

Regular luker here, rarely post. I must say, I am of the belief the game is won and lost in the trenches. I have long been an advocate of boosting our lines when possible. I have posted my concern about our OL...namely the center position. On draft day, I could not believe we drafted Tutu over Creed Humphrey. Drove me nuts.

For the record, I am a huge believer in our front office and McVay. As a fan since '78, I can't recall feeling better about our organization. I trust them.

For the life of me, I couldn't (and still can't) understand why we would take a 4th/5th WR during our "win now" window when we have glaring needs our on OL (more next year/future than this year). To me, you secure your foundation on both sides of the ball and work outwards.

I am extremely concerned that Allen, who I had very high hopes for and has disappointed to-date, has been named our starter. My concern doesn't come from the rhetoric we are hearing.....it's possible he's worked his a$$ off and is a better player for it. But rather, that Evans has been such a disappointment that Allen has been thrust into a position in order to get our best 5 on the field. If the latter is true, I credit the coaches for seeing and making the necessary adjustments.

Where I struggle is how we could pass on a potential 8-year starter at center that would help solidify our OL (i.e. add another "rock") so that we could draft a player that may not be all that necessary (the term "gadget player" comes to mind with Tutu). I just think we would be in such a better position (run game included) had we made the obvious move.

Again, I love Mc/snead and the Rams. I want Tutu to prove me SO wrong. But damn, I am nervous about our OL's ability to run block (specifically) and protect our franchise QB.

Sorry if this comes across as being a debbie-downer; not my intent. I just REALLY hope Allen and our OL is up to the task!

Wisconsinram

 

[rdlkgliders]

Thanks for the rare post my Ram brother. You are not alone, many of us share your concern

 

[VegasRam]

I am not one of them.

 

[WestCoastRam]

It's a good point. I think Jourdan has earned some cred for her fantastic reporting and she said Allen has really been fighting for the role and has looked the part...

... but she also alluded that it was probably a mixture of Allen improving and a combo of Allen/Corbett being superior to Corbett/Evans that prompted the change.

Her reporting today seems to confirm that Evans is not cutting mustard so her allusion to an Allen/Corbett combo being better is spot on.

One can only hope that she was also correct about Allen improving.

I'm not happy with Evans. I can't confirm this yet, but I have a suspicion that he hasn't just treaded water, but actually regressed.

 

[VegasRam]

AKA - re Billy’s famous line about the economy…

“it’s (was) the quarterback, stupid”.

“Yeah but Goff was great when he had that line….”

No- JG was great when he had Gurley.

Love Jared - always have, always will. But facts is facts.

Back to the OT - our line is fine, and a “guaranteed 8 year starter” is a bit of a reach.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Regular luker here, rarely post. I must say, I am of the belief the game is won and lost in the trenches. I have long been an advocate of boosting our lines when possible. I have posted my concern about our OL...namely the center position. On draft day, I could not believe we drafted Tutu over Creed Humphrey. Drove me nuts.

For the record, I am a huge believer in our front office and McVay. As a fan since '78, I can't recall feeling better about our organization. I trust them.

For the life of me, I couldn't (and still can't) understand why we would take a 4th/5th WR during our "win now" window when we have glaring needs our on OL (more next year/future than this year). To me, you secure your foundation on both sides of the ball and work outwards.

I am extremely concerned that Allen, who I had very high hopes for and has disappointed to-date, has been named our starter. My concern doesn't come from the rhetoric we are hearing.....it's possible he's worked his a$$ off and is a better player for it. But rather, that Evans has been such a disappointment that Allen has been thrust into a position in order to get our best 5 on the field. If the latter is true, I credit the coaches for seeing and making the necessary adjustments.

Where I struggle is how we could pass on a potential 8-year starter at center that would help solidify our OL (i.e. add another "rock") so that we could draft a player that may not be all that necessary (the term "gadget player" comes to mind with Tutu). I just think we would be in such a better position (run game included) had we made the obvious move.

Again, I love Mc/snead and the Rams. I want Tutu to prove me SO wrong. But damn, I am nervous about our OL's ability to run block (specifically) and protect our franchise QB.

Sorry if this comes across as being a debbie-downer; not my intent. I just REALLY hope Allen and our OL is up to the task!

Wisconsinram

Well, at least 40% of our OL is from good Wisconsin stock...

I'm with ya on being surprised that the Rams didn't go OL with any of their premium picks. Many of us were shocked on day 2 of the draft. Even Jourdain Rodrigue has hinted she was surprised that the Rams didn't pick an OL.

Rams were counting on Evans to be a competent starter, and he hasn't looked good. Here's hoping Allen has improved a ton from 2019.

If nothing else, it's surprising that the Rams didn't draft an OL to prepare for next year. Could be some major changes in 2022, with Whit getting older and other guys entering contract years.

Who will have a better NFL career, Creed Humphrey or Tutu Atwell? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Wisconsinram]

AKA - re Billy’s famous line about the economy…

“it’s (was) the quarterback, stupid”.

“Yeah but Goff was great when he had that line….”

No- JG was great when he had Gurley.

Love Jared - always have, always will. But facts is facts.

Back to the OT - our line is fine, and a “guaranteed 8 year starter” is a bit of a reach.

Vegas,
I know you post here often, so you'll have to excuse me. But what the hell did you just post? I have no idea of how to interpret you ramblings, but I will say that I didn't "guarantee" Humphrey would be an 8 year starter. I said "potentially." That said, I would be glad to revisit this post in 4 years with a renewed look. Why? Because if Tutu is what our braintrust think he must be AND Creed isn't the player I think he will be, the Rams will have made the right choice and I will be happy to be told "see...."

As for my point, I'd rather have a sound OL during our "win now" window.

That is all...

 

[Merlin]

Your concerns are fair. I have quite a few of my own. But I do think we are gonna win a ton of games.

Only question in my mind is whether we have a team that can win it all. I think we do but some of my concerns are eroding my kool-aid high.

Ok back to the keg woooo!

 

[PressureD41]

It's a good point. I think Jourdan has earned some cred for her fantastic reporting and she said Allen has really been fighting for the role and has looked the part...

... but she also alluded that it was probably a mixture of Allen improving and a combo of Allen/Corbett being superior to Corbett/Evans that prompted the change.

Her reporting today seems to confirm that Evans is not cutting mustard so her allusion to an Allen/Corbett combo being better is spot on.

One can only hope that she was also correct about Allen improving.

I'm not happy with Evans. I can't confirm this yet, but I have a suspicion that he hasn't just treaded water, but actually regressed.

^ on Allen being good enough

 

[CGI_Ram]

But what the hell did you just post?

I remain unsure my level of concern with the oline.

And… if McVay keeps sitting starters, that will continue until week 1.

It could be a great line. Allen might be a huge surprise. Edwards and Corbin are still getting better. Our tackles are good.

At this moment I could make a case not to worry, too.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I am not one of them.

@VegasRam 's main concern is will he make it to the toilet in time.

.

 

[Loyal]

AKA - re Billy’s famous line about the economy…

“it’s (was) the quarterback, stupid”.

“Yeah but Goff was great when he had that line….”

No- JG was great when he had Gurley.

Love Jared - always have, always will. But facts is facts.

Back to the OT - our line is fine, and a “guaranteed 8 year starter” is a bit of a reach.

and so was the pick of Tutu over Creed Humphreys. I'm still low level pissed that we didn't get a premium Olineman when we needed one so damn bad, and this kid was just waiting for us to take him. Relying on late round/UDFA's types for the Oline by Snead, borders on arrogance.

 

[Loyal]

@CGI_Ram and @Merlin be like....

 

[Loyal]

AKA - re Billy’s famous line about the economy…

“it’s (was) the quarterback, stupid”.

“Yeah but Goff was great when he had that line….”

No- JG was great when he had Gurley.

Love Jared - always have, always will. But facts is facts.

Back to the OT - our line is fine, and a “guaranteed 8 year starter” is a bit of a reach.

Where in the hell did you read that? This is what WisconsinRam posted: "Where I struggle is how we could pass on a potential 8-year starter at center that would help solidify our OL...."

 

[TexasRam]

Regular luker here, rarely post. I must say, I am of the belief the game is won and lost in the trenches. I have long been an advocate of boosting our lines when possible. I have posted my concern about our OL...namely the center position. On draft day, I could not believe we drafted Tutu over Creed Humphrey. Drove me nuts.

For the record, I am a huge believer in our front office and McVay. As a fan since '78, I can't recall feeling better about our organization. I trust them.

For the life of me, I couldn't (and still can't) understand why we would take a 4th/5th WR during our "win now" window when we have glaring needs our on OL (more next year/future than this year). To me, you secure your foundation on both sides of the ball and work outwards.

I am extremely concerned that Allen, who I had very high hopes for and has disappointed to-date, has been named our starter. My concern doesn't come from the rhetoric we are hearing.....it's possible he's worked his a$$ off and is a better player for it. But rather, that Evans has been such a disappointment that Allen has been thrust into a position in order to get our best 5 on the field. If the latter is true, I credit the coaches for seeing and making the necessary adjustments.

Where I struggle is how we could pass on a potential 8-year starter at center that would help solidify our OL (i.e. add another "rock") so that we could draft a player that may not be all that necessary (the term "gadget player" comes to mind with Tutu). I just think we would be in such a better position (run game included) had we made the obvious move.

Again, I love Mc/snead and the Rams. I want Tutu to prove me SO wrong. But damn, I am nervous about our OL's ability to run block (specifically) and protect our franchise QB.

Sorry if this comes across as being a debbie-downer; not my intent. I just REALLY hope Allen and our OL is up to the task!

Wisconsinram

Glad you popped in to post. Trust me your concerns are shared by not only many here, but many analysts around the league.

We will just have to wait and see. It's possible Mcvay is convincing himself of what he sees with Allen and is going to find out the hard way he was wrong. It's also possible he is entirely right.

I spend every week carefully reviewing the game tape of every snap the Oline takes. It is always the best indicator of the team success in my book. Take for example Aaron Rodgers rise back up to MVP level behind his rebuilt all pro line. Or what happened to Lamar Jackson last year when he lost his star lineman. I made the case that when Sullivan and Saffold departed that we would see our top offense take a huge fall and the QB would get the blame. And here we are.

Fortunately Corbett turned out to be a really solid guard along with Edwards. But they need to stay healthy. Last year when Edwards went down the combo of Blythe and Evans on the interior broke the camels back for our playoff run, offensively speaking.

By any account this Oline is inferior to our 2019 Oline glory. Edwards is solid but actually grades out as average compared to Saffold. Whitworth is still good but not anywhere near his prime. Center is a massive question mark. Corbett is solid but no pro bowler. He actually started hot in 2020 and then tailed off as the season went on. Havenstein is still about the same. Below average pass blocker but top notch run blocker.

A new season and anything could happen. The fact that the interior are all still young means there could possibly be some improved play which would be excellent.

But we do have Stafford now and there is a possibility his skillset improves the offense due to his ability to make things happen when the Oline breaks down, or just his ability to stretch the field and force defenses to back the hell up.

The run game in our offense is also highly affected by the TE's, WR's and RB's. So, that's something to keep an eye on. Normally when I review film the day after at least 30-40 percent of the blocking breakdown is correlated to those units. So we have room to improve there as well. Everett was hit or miss on blocks which often killed drives and drove me mad. Higbee was either out or playing injured half the year so his solid blocks took a huge hit and killed drives. Jefferson as a rookie and a few other WR's that normally block really well struggled more than usual. If we could clean that up with some healthy players and new faces there could be a noticeable improvement in offensive efficiency.

 

[oldnotdead]

Again some context needs to be considered.

Evans: Has always played OT. Was actually a bright spot in 2019 when he played OT after Havenstein went down. Missed a lot of 2020 with an injury now add the lack of a true camp, and a brand new position. Compound the fact he was being coached by Kromer last year who proved unable to coach young developing players. He struggled but played adequately, primarily because he wasn't asked to do much except executing a simplistic blocking scheme. Outside zone with a horizontal concept is something every lineman has played since high school. Now in 2021, he is being asked to learn entirely new blocking concepts at an unfamiliar position. Understand that the technique and muscle memory required of an OG is completely different than as an OT. An OT plays upright with strength, and quick feet. An OG plays with leverage, i.e. plays low with power (hand, arm, and lower body drive). This in reality is his first full offseason at a new position. That's why I give him a pass and understand that at this point he can provide decent backup level play.

OT: Whitworth and Havenstein are the same as in 2018. My reservations with Havenstein haven't changed, i.e. his play is mediocre and his slow feet make him vulnerable to speed. That shows even now. If there is one player that needs to be replaced it's him.

Corbett: Despite McVay's words to the contrary Austin had his own struggles at center. For a first-time player at the position he did in fact practice well, but practice is not a game. When pitted against someone other than his own teammates these struggles were made clear. His move back to RG was made necessary by his practice against the Cowboys. People like to blame the move on Evans but in reality, Corbett is the 3rd best center.

Allen & Shelton: These two have always been the best options for McVay. Both have long experience (which matters at this position) playing center. But only Allen has NFL starting experience. In 2019 he played 563 snaps before being injured. In 2020 Kromer demoted Allen to play the markedly inferior Blythe who was a Kromer favorite. Blythe gave up 4 sacks and even more pressures. In approximately half the snaps Allen only gave up one sack and fewer pressures. Simply going back and comparing the blocking of Allen vs Blythe reveals the truth and is part of the reason Kromer lost his job. Allen is the logical choice for compelling reasons. First, he is the only player with starting experience at center which is proved by Corbett is the hardest position to play. In his 2019 starts, he played much better than he was given credit for having done as a first-year starter. It's clear from the reports Allen continued to work on his game and is much better prepared to play the position than in 2019. This shows a good work ethic and commitment. Allen has the mobility to execute any scheme Carberry wishes to install.

Shelton is a mauler in run blocking with the mobility to execute any scheme Carberry wants to run. He has collegiate experience at both center and OG making him what you want as a backup. IMO between Allen, Corbett, and Shelton, it's Coleman who has the best drive blocking potential in short yardage.

Other than Havenstein, the other potential weakness is Edwards. He continues to have lapses in his technique which is what he struggled with last year. It must be remembered he did give up 3 sacks last year but again it must be noted he played next to Blythe the turnstile.

Now blocking for Stafford he will make their jobs easier as his quick reading of the defense allows him to get the passes off on time. The only real concern with this OL will be in run blocking. In run blocking it's all about execution, and that takes practice and time to develop the field vision, awareness and thereby the execution to play any scheme Carberry calls for. The basic talent is in place it's a matter of can it all come together quickly enough. When people talk about an OL gelling as a unit that is a very real thing. The OL must play as a unit no less than the defensive secondary which must do likewise.

Remember this is the same basic OL that run blocked well last year. The difference this year is a far better center who can actually execute the second-level blocks which used to leave Blythe standing around looking confused. This OL blocked fairly well for Goff who admittedly was slow to get his passes off for a variety of reasons. That has now been rectified by Stafford, so the bottom line is that I think this OL has the potential to be one of the top OLs in the NFL. They simply need to execute their newly installed blocking schemes better and that is simply a matter or practice and experience.

Time for panic or agnst? I think not. They were decent last year and IMO they will only be improved this year as in reality they upgraded the center position and everything else is the same.

 

[dang]

I don’t recall the 2018 OL being deep in talent. The starting 5 was very good and stayed healthy. For 2021 it looks like we have some decent depth (Note, Anchrum, Evans) but will again need to rely on health.

 

[VegasRam]

@Wisconsinram - I stand corrected.
Was running to the toilet and misread your post.
Cheers.

 

[Faceplant]

I share these concerns as well and was surprised they did not add beef in the draft. They have earned my trust though, so we roll with what we got.

Also, man.... Some of you HAVE to be retired or have a shit ton of time to yourselves to be reviewing that much film and posting novellas multiple times per day. Kudos to you!

 

[den-the-coach]

Concerns are fair because so far depth does not appear great, but again, hopefully only one or two players will provide that depth being Noteboom & Anchrum. Brian Allen has transformed himself, he was a 4th round pick and expected to take over John Sullivan, but physical strength was an issue and he was injured in 2019 & had COVID last season.

Allen spent a ton of time becoming stronger and it was obvious from day one of training camp, which has propelled him to being the starting center and quite frankly, he's the only natural Center on the roster Jordan Meredith notwithstanding, as Coleman Shelton in college played all along the offensive line.

The new OL Coach Kevin Carberry has me concerned, he was late to training camp because of COVID and his unit was underwhelming in the first preseason game albeit they were lower tier guys with the exception of Evans & Anchrum. Two more games left, with hope things get better, but IMO, I'm just hoping for good health with the first unit including Brian Allen because I'm not that confident beyond Boom & Anchrum as Bobby Evans appears to have gone backwards in his development to this point.