We came into this season with questions at LB... Well our questions have been answered... The corp sucks, and we will get exposed and maybe even loose a game or 2 becuase of it. We will probably loose a game or 2 becuase of our K too. We have no pass rush, no thumpers, and it seems like the DTs are playing out of position too... Remember Aaron Donald? I miss the post bye week jeff fisher D fense. Remember he couldnt get the run D situated till after the bye week then we looked like we had 11 all pros on D
The defense
- Thread starter Cydekikk
- Start date
-
To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.
The Rams are 5-0 so I'm not hitting the panic button. Yes, I'm concerned that we gave up 31 points in consecutive games. Not having Greg Z almost made a difference today also, but at least Santos made the critical FG. Not sure I would have felt so comfortable with Ficken in there.
One good thing is that the Viqueens, Iggles, and Fudge Packers are close to playing their way out of contention for a 1st round playoff bye. New Orleans is 3-1 but they should have lost to Cleveland and they have a gauntlet to run in October and November which includes games with the Viqueens and Iggles.
We need Talib back for his leadership and ability to create turnovers. He seems to keep Peters in check.
That said, the signing of Suh and Donald gave us a menacing D-line so teams have schemed against it by throwing quick passes. Add in the fact that the refs are allowing our D-line to ge blatantly held on most plays. On the play where Franklin Meyers strips Kirk Cousins of the ball, he was being held. Today with about 5 minutes left in the sea hags game, AD got held with an arm around his neck which prevented him from getting a sack and Wison completed a long pass. (Funny how they could overturn the ref's call on the field last week denying the Browns a first down and the win to overturning it and making them short by inches by using close up freeze frame, but could not see the sea hags receiver take 2 steps on the end line against the Rams and allowed the TD anyway)
But aside from the refs, the problem I'm seeing is the edge. The running game by the sea fags got going because the edge was not sealed and even though the Rams are getting QB pressures from the D-line, because we play a 3 man line, it's basically 5 against 3. The edge hasn't been effective in 1 on 1 match ups and because the refs allow holding in the interior, Donald and Suh become ineffective.
I'm no expert but Wade probably needs to mix in some blitzes and/or some scheme to get an extra defender up close if teams want to throw the ball in 1.7 seconds.
I don't think the defensive issues can't be fixed even with current personnel. Luckily our offense has been so explosive that we've answered each score with our own. But the defense does need to get off the field more often. In the playoffs, sooner or later some opponent will disrupt you enough to force you to play defense and we'll need to do that if we want to hoist the Lombardi. The GSOT Rams won yje NFC championship 11-6 over the Bucs. We need to be able to play that kind of game if necessary.
One good thing is that the Viqueens, Iggles, and Fudge Packers are close to playing their way out of contention for a 1st round playoff bye. New Orleans is 3-1 but they should have lost to Cleveland and they have a gauntlet to run in October and November which includes games with the Viqueens and Iggles.
We need Talib back for his leadership and ability to create turnovers. He seems to keep Peters in check.
That said, the signing of Suh and Donald gave us a menacing D-line so teams have schemed against it by throwing quick passes. Add in the fact that the refs are allowing our D-line to ge blatantly held on most plays. On the play where Franklin Meyers strips Kirk Cousins of the ball, he was being held. Today with about 5 minutes left in the sea hags game, AD got held with an arm around his neck which prevented him from getting a sack and Wison completed a long pass. (Funny how they could overturn the ref's call on the field last week denying the Browns a first down and the win to overturning it and making them short by inches by using close up freeze frame, but could not see the sea hags receiver take 2 steps on the end line against the Rams and allowed the TD anyway)
But aside from the refs, the problem I'm seeing is the edge. The running game by the sea fags got going because the edge was not sealed and even though the Rams are getting QB pressures from the D-line, because we play a 3 man line, it's basically 5 against 3. The edge hasn't been effective in 1 on 1 match ups and because the refs allow holding in the interior, Donald and Suh become ineffective.
I'm no expert but Wade probably needs to mix in some blitzes and/or some scheme to get an extra defender up close if teams want to throw the ball in 1.7 seconds.
I don't think the defensive issues can't be fixed even with current personnel. Luckily our offense has been so explosive that we've answered each score with our own. But the defense does need to get off the field more often. In the playoffs, sooner or later some opponent will disrupt you enough to force you to play defense and we'll need to do that if we want to hoist the Lombardi. The GSOT Rams won yje NFC championship 11-6 over the Bucs. We need to be able to play that kind of game if necessary.
So, you liked the way they got pushed around in the running game? Seahawks averaged over 6 yards per carry.
Elmgrovegnome
Legend
The defense is built to defend the pass more than the run. Most teams will do the most damage with the pass. So in most cases Wade doesn't worry as much about the run game. Let them run. The D will make stops now and then, and the offense will keep scoring. Eventually the opponent starts to pass more to play catch up. So the pass defense becomes most important.
That Seahawk team is using the Fisher/Rex Ryan approach. We can't score in the passing game, so let's go old school and control the clock. So far that offense hasn't succeeded overall. The Rams will do things better for the next Shehawk game.
Wade ain't the problem. The issue is our CB depth sucks, first off, and that's going to be what causes us the most pain if they don't find a way to shore things up at least partially. Our run defense still sucks, and in large part due to our LBs and the fact that we have a 3T playin nose. Getting Talib back would be huge if and when that happens, because we need that eraser of the top draw but even then we need better play in the secondary.
I think our front can watch that film and improve. Our LB situation Wade can mix and match a bit now that he's been reminded how undisciplined Barron is, and hopefully get OK production in terms of run fits. But that secondary... Oh boy.
No matter how good our offense is, if that defense doesn't improve vs the pass this is a playoff team who is looking at an outside chance of winning it all. A very long shot IMO.
I think our front can watch that film and improve. Our LB situation Wade can mix and match a bit now that he's been reminded how undisciplined Barron is, and hopefully get OK production in terms of run fits. But that secondary... Oh boy.
No matter how good our offense is, if that defense doesn't improve vs the pass this is a playoff team who is looking at an outside chance of winning it all. A very long shot IMO.
The CB depth wasn't the problem today. Hill and Shields played well (outside of Hill's boneheaded PF). Peters was the one getting torched. As for the run defense, Suh at NT isn't really an issue. He's been a 1T for much of his career. He had some inconsistencies today, but it was Brockers who was struggling mightily. He's usually an outstanding run defender, so I'll give him a mulligan for what went down today.
Oh and re: the list of needs on defense:
1. Blindside rush. Opponents can threaten the edge and focus their OLs on the interior and hold their @$$es off and get away with it. We need a guy who can crash the edge, hope that Obo is that dude but it's a longshot with him missing time. Probably a draft position tbh.
2. CB. Peters is so undisciplined it's sickening. Coaches are being disregarded by him IMO, because that is how you DON'T play CB. They need to add to that position in the draft.
3. ILB. Littleton is the only guy who can play. I'm sure some others will get looks, but we need an addition who doesn't have an enormous flaw in run or pass defense. Probably a draft position.
4. NT. I wanted Snead to go get a run-stuffing nose in year one. Still a need to get one somewhere in the draft if one they like is there.
5. Safety. Joyner's gone, they'll need to replace him.
This defense needs some TLC this offseason. Not trades of more veterans either, young dudes who will take coaching and improve week to week.
1. Blindside rush. Opponents can threaten the edge and focus their OLs on the interior and hold their @$$es off and get away with it. We need a guy who can crash the edge, hope that Obo is that dude but it's a longshot with him missing time. Probably a draft position tbh.
2. CB. Peters is so undisciplined it's sickening. Coaches are being disregarded by him IMO, because that is how you DON'T play CB. They need to add to that position in the draft.
3. ILB. Littleton is the only guy who can play. I'm sure some others will get looks, but we need an addition who doesn't have an enormous flaw in run or pass defense. Probably a draft position.
4. NT. I wanted Snead to go get a run-stuffing nose in year one. Still a need to get one somewhere in the draft if one they like is there.
5. Safety. Joyner's gone, they'll need to replace him.
This defense needs some TLC this offseason. Not trades of more veterans either, young dudes who will take coaching and improve week to week.
If you're happy with the CB depth I have some shoreline real estate I can sell you in Vegas. And we're still in disagreement with Suh. We're paying that dude a lot of money to play a non-optimum role in this defense.
Yeah Brock got manhandled. And we could go on tbh, lot of blame to go around.
If we're looking at the secondary I thought Hill played okay except for the dumb personal foul. Shields has been inconsistent in my eyes and honestly Peters was garbage today. He made one nice PD on a shorter route but you cant get beat for 2 or 3 touchdowns deep. This year he's been torched on multiple double moves already. My big question is where is our safety play?? Joyner and John Johnson have been non existent and we go huge periods if not games without seeing them flash. In the past it seemed like both were making bigger plays, so overall our secondary isn't playing well.
At ILB I think we'll be okay with Littleton and Barron. Assuming Mark can stay healthy I kind of like that pair but we're going to continue to struggle at OLB. There's no way Ebukam, Longacre, or JFM, will be able to consistently beat good offensive linemen. AD gets doubled on every snap pretty much, so that means we need Suh, Brockers, or one of our OLBs to win their 1-on-1 every snap to get pressure. That's not happening right now at all. One of our edge rushers might get a push, maybe, or AD will still win against a double. It's just not happening enough. Teams are doubling AD and no one else is able to consistently win, flat out. And it's not only the pass rush, our edge defenders are terrible at keeping contain. So the QB knows he will only see pressure from the middle, and just rolls out so he has additional time for his WRs to separate with no pressure coming from the edge.
At ILB I think we'll be okay with Littleton and Barron. Assuming Mark can stay healthy I kind of like that pair but we're going to continue to struggle at OLB. There's no way Ebukam, Longacre, or JFM, will be able to consistently beat good offensive linemen. AD gets doubled on every snap pretty much, so that means we need Suh, Brockers, or one of our OLBs to win their 1-on-1 every snap to get pressure. That's not happening right now at all. One of our edge rushers might get a push, maybe, or AD will still win against a double. It's just not happening enough. Teams are doubling AD and no one else is able to consistently win, flat out. And it's not only the pass rush, our edge defenders are terrible at keeping contain. So the QB knows he will only see pressure from the middle, and just rolls out so he has additional time for his WRs to separate with no pressure coming from the edge.
I watched the same game that you did today. Doug Baldwin did nothing. Brandon Marshall did nothing. Jaron Brown did nothing. David Moore had two TDs. Both came against Marcus Peters (to be fair, one should not have counted). Tyler Lockett had three big catches. His long TD came against Marcus Peters. Another long catch came on a nice route against NRC (not much NRC could do against that route - the pass rush would have blown the play up if not for holding). The third catch came on a scramble play where he settled into a hole in the zone while Wilson scrambled. Troy Hill had a nice deflection on the long pass to Marshall. Shields nearly had a pick six on a third and three pass.
Basically, the CB depth came through today. I think we saw more of Hill today because of Shields' issues as a run defender. The biggest problem with our pass defense today was Marcus Peters. He was playing like early-career Janoris Jenkins out there. Instead of sticking to his man, he kept gambling and giving up TDs.
As for Suh, I strongly disagree with you. Wade doesn't run a typical 3-4. He doesn't want a NT who occupies space. He wants his NT to penetrate and disrupt. Suh had some inconsistencies today as a run defender, but he's been a very good player for us this year. The big issue today was Brockers. That's quite abnormal. Brockers is an animal in run defense usually, but they were gashing us through his gap today.
I think Wade needs to change it up on passing downs. I've been a bit disappointed with the lack of creativity. Personally, I'd like to see us alternate Suh and Donald at DE/OLB with the other playing 3-Tech on passing downs. Have Brockers, JFM, or Westbrooks at the other DT spot and have Ebukam, JFM, and Longacre alternate at the other DE/OLB spot. Basically, when we go nickel on passing downs, have a DL of:
DE/OLB: Aaron Donald or Suh
NT(0/1 Tech): Brockers or Westbrooks (with JFM mixed in on 3rd and long)
DT/DE (3 Tech): Suh or Aaron Donald
DE/OLB: Ebukam or Longacre or JFM
We've seen Suh play more and more DE/OLB in those situations, but I think Donald is even more dangerous there.
.
on all these long range plays/tds, can i ask where joyner is when all of this is happening? if peters is gonna gamble shouldn't he have safety help up top? i don't get it.
also, remember when peters tipped up a pass and joyner rushed in with his shoulder over the receiver? wtf? he could see the ball was clearly tipped up in the air. the receiver was falling to the ground. all he had to do was dive in and catch it. why would he react the way he did on that play? is he in auto-pilot? going through the motions? i don't get it.
.
on all these long range plays/tds, can i ask where joyner is when all of this is happening? if peters is gonna gamble shouldn't he have safety help up top? i don't get it.
also, remember when peters tipped up a pass and joyner rushed in with his shoulder over the receiver? wtf? he could see the ball was clearly tipped up in the air. the receiver was falling to the ground. all he had to do was dive in and catch it. why would he react the way he did on that play? is he in auto-pilot? going through the motions? i don't get it.
.
Yeah I am pretty sure Joyner didnt see that ball before he committed to hitting.
I could be wrong but I saw the same play and it sure seemed like he was already tackling before the split second where he could have made a heads up play on the ball.
In a way, I’ve been concerned about peaking too early... so, having some work to do doesn’t really bother me.
We might want to dominate every week, but that’s just not how the NFL is built. Everyone here watches enough football to know that.
I will say this... I watched about 60% of the Browns game yesterday... I don’t miss Greg Williams’ defense. Remember how we always seemed to allow the opposing team to convert on 3rd and long? Yep. That was a common theme yesterday in that game.
We might want to dominate every week, but that’s just not how the NFL is built. Everyone here watches enough football to know that.
I will say this... I watched about 60% of the Browns game yesterday... I don’t miss Greg Williams’ defense. Remember how we always seemed to allow the opposing team to convert on 3rd and long? Yep. That was a common theme yesterday in that game.
Yes, I love that. Also lost count of how many missed tackles our linebackers and secondary have the last two weeks.
Suh and Donald are the Rams best players on defense. Easily.
Last edited:
Is it just me or is Joyner supposed to be playing free safety but plays way too close to the line of scrimmage. He just can't cover the back part (depending on the coverage...) he supposed to.
I wonder if that is to help tempt longer passes? I.e. counter the short passes we’ve been seeing.
Also didn't seem like they were rotating the defensive line like usual, however, Brockers did not have his best game today as I concur also although Littleton blocked a punt and did some nice things rushing Wilson and tipping passes, he struggled against the run, whereas, Barron played really well.
Did not see much of Westbrooks today, in the 4th quarter the Rams did seem to finally figure out how to stop the run, but they seemed unprepared for the RPO style of offense the Seahawks were running even though Wilson never kept the ball.
Sorry the browns have one of the better defenses in the league and they have played some good offensive teams and held them in check mostly
I would argue. We need them way more often.