The Curse of a Salary Cap–Eating Quarterback

[XXXIVwin]

I’ll take the “curse of the salary-cap eating quarterback” over the “curse of not having a decent quarterback and wandering in the wilderness for ten years.”

We Rams fans know how hard it is to find a good starting QB. A few names: Kyle Boller, Keith Null, Austin Davis, Shaun Hill, Kellen Clemens, and (yes) Sam Bradford. There’s more, but the whole list is too painful.

The thought of the Rams rolling the dice on another QB makes me want to puke. Yes, I still have lingering concerns about Goff, but he has shown more than enough to give me faith in him for a long term contract.

Final point: Goff’s agent is the same as Brandin Cooks. When Goff’s contract comes up, he will get paid handsomely, but he won’t squeeze the Rams for every last penny.

 

[FrantikRam]

Ryan is probably worth less I'd agree but Rodgers is worth what they pay him. His contract is not the problem. And the Packers have been to the playoffs every year but his first as a starter and this one with him as the QB. You have to pay for that type of production and success.

The market is set, what a QB is worth is what they negotiate for.

If Ryan is worth less, then you're admitting we shouldn't re-sign Goff - because Ryan was better than Goff this year.

I'm fine with that. I agree with that.

Rodgers got the Packers a super bowl before having a mega contract. I'm waiting for the team that just doesn't re-sign their QB.

 

[FrantikRam]

I’ll take the “curse of the salary-cap eating quarterback” over the “curse of not having a decent quarterback and wandering in the wilderness for ten years.”

We Rams fans know how hard it is to find a good starting QB. A few names: Kyle Boller, Keith Null, Austin Davis, Shaun Hill, Kellen Clemens, and (yes) Sam Bradford. There’s more, but the whole list is too painful.

The thought of the Rams rolling the dice on another QB makes me want to puke. Yes, I still have lingering concerns about Goff, but he has shown more than enough to give me faith in him for a long term contract.

Final point: Goff’s agent is the same as Brandin Cooks. When Goff’s contract comes up, he will get paid handsomely, but he won’t squeeze the Rams for every last penny.

McVay is a tad different than those other coaches, don't you think?

If it were up to me, Goff would need to take a pretty sizable step forward or else I wouldn't offer him more than $20 million per year.

 

[Raptorman]

Eventually the high Priced QB will go the way of he high priced RB. Once teams realize that a QB alone cannot win a game for them.

 

[Ken]

I think most teams are starting to get smarter about how much a QB should be paid. I think we will see 3 to 4 tiers of QB labor costs and most good to very good QBs will not be getting paid more than the last elite QB contract just because its 1-2 years since that contract occurred. And at some point in the next 10 years revenues will start to flatten out or even possibly decrease, and you won't continue to see every increasing salaries for starting QBs.

 

[kurtfaulk]

If Ryan is worth less, then you're admitting we shouldn't re-sign Goff - because Ryan was better than Goff this year.

not quite sure how you have come to that conclusion.

.

 

[Flint]

This is a talking point with media experts, I heard Cowherd just yesterday, none of the top 5 qbs made the playoffs, he said. It probably depends on the list you’re looking at but the one I see has Flacco at 4 (I’m still counting him cuz he did play this year) and Luck at 5, Brees is 6 and Wilson 7.
So 4 of the top ten did make the playoffs, hardly indicative of a “curse” and Ben and Cousins were very close.
The line is that you have a window to get to the super bowl which closes when you pay your qb but this year it’s 50% in the afc and either 4-2 rookies or 3-3 depending on how you classify Philly in the nfc.
There are people who are saying Goff better produce this year or the Rams should consider starting over which to me seems asinine, Wilson and Dak were 3rd rounders every other 1st contract qb was a first rounder. So now they have to spend draft capital to try to get back into the 1st round. Are Trubisky and Dak and Lamar the reasons their teams are successful? Not necessarily, the Rams are going to be good for a while with Goff at qb.

 

[LesBaker]

This is a talking point with media experts, I heard Cowherd just yesterday, none of the top 5 qbs made the playoffs, he said. It probably depends on the list you’re looking at but the one I see has Flacco at 4 (I’m still counting him cuz he did play this year) and Luck at 5, Brees is 6 and Wilson 7.
So 4 of the top ten did make the playoffs, hardly indicative of a “curse” and Ben and Cousins were very close.
The line is that you have a window to get to the super bowl which closes when you pay your qb but this year it’s 50% in the afc and either 4-2 rookies or 3-3 depending on how you classify Philly in the nfc.
There are people who are saying Goff better produce this year or the Rams should consider starting over which to me seems asinine, Wilson and Dak were 3rd rounders every other 1st contract qb was a first rounder. So now they have to spend draft capital to try to get back into the 1st round. Are Trubisky and Dak and Lamar the reasons their teams are successful? Not necessarily, the Rams are going to be good for a while with Goff at qb.

Who has this list I want to se it.

Flacco at 4? What!

Brees 6?

I don't understand how they are ranking.

 

[kurtfaulk]

There are people who are saying Goff better produce this year or the Rams should consider starting over which to me seems asinine

Who are these people?

.

 

[The Ramowl]

This is not new, Seattle great years were in Russell Wilson's rookie contract.
But his article forgets how awful it is for a franchise when it doesn't have a proper QB and it often lasts a long time and you get many losing seasons, until you reach rock bottom, draft very high and find gold. Let's not kid ourselves, late pick greats like Wilson and Brady don't come around often, and probably not even the office that drafted them saw what happened coming otherwise they would have taken them higher.
So no don't pay average layers fortunes and try to work with your QB to be cap friendly, but you can't do with QBs what you can do with RBs

 

[tklongball]

This is a talking point with media experts, I heard Cowherd just yesterday, none of the top 5 qbs made the playoffs, he said. It probably depends on the list you’re looking at but the one I see has Flacco at 4 (I’m still counting him cuz he did play this year) and Luck at 5, Brees is 6 and Wilson 7.
So 4 of the top ten did make the playoffs, hardly indicative of a “curse” and Ben and Cousins were very close.
The line is that you have a window to get to the super bowl which closes when you pay your qb but this year it’s 50% in the afc and either 4-2 rookies or 3-3 depending on how you classify Philly in the nfc.
There are people who are saying Goff better produce this year or the Rams should consider starting over which to me seems asinine, Wilson and Dak were 3rd rounders every other 1st contract qb was a first rounder. So now they have to spend draft capital to try to get back into the 1st round. Are Trubisky and Dak and Lamar the reasons their teams are successful? Not necessarily, the Rams are going to be good for a while with Goff at qb.

I don't think it is that you can't make the playoffs with a QB once he gets paid, I think it becomes harder, and your windows are much shorter.

 

[FrantikRam]

not quite sure how you have come to that conclusion.

.

Which one?

Matt Ryan had better numbers than Goff pretty much across the board and did so playing on a worse team. I think he and Goff are in the same tier, but my overall point is if someone thinks Matt Ryan isn't worth his contract, and Goff will likely be signed to a larger one, and they're in the same tier...

 

[LesBaker]

This is not new, Seattle great years were in Russell Wilson's rookie contract.

They drafted a lot of talent and then had to pay them big dollars so it was more than Wilson's contract. They had other big contracts pressuring their cap, and frankly it sounds like they did deals to make players happy with less than long term cap friendly deals because they had to know they had a window of opportunity. When you have that kind of talent you do what you can to keep it together as long as possible because no team outside of the Patriots (and for unusual reasons) has a window open for more than 3-5 years.

 

[Ram_Rally]

I hope that Jared Goff understands this, but unfortunately, too many of these guys believe that they work for their agents, rather than it being the other way around. You would think that the Tom Brady way is a much better route. Take less, and have the chance to win a bunch of Superbowls. It is not like these guys will be starving.
Goff has a chance to have a Brady/Belacheat/Pats type of Goff/McVay/Rams projection with lots of SB appearances on the horizon. All you have to do is look at the High Dollar QBs on the sidelines this time of year.

The question becomes, do you want a 1-2 year window every 4-5 years, or do you want an open window for years to come. In the end, no one will remember that you made 400 Million instead of 250 Million during your career, but they will remember that you've won 4-5 superbowls instead of 0-1.

I know that it isn't this cut and dry, but If it was me, I'd take the $250M with the chance at being in 8 SBs, instead of $400M and being in 1 SB.

While I agree with you, I'm never gonna fault anyone for maximizing thier dollars .

I hope that Jared Goff understands this, but unfortunately, too many of these guys believe that they work for their agents, rather than it being the other way around. You would think that the Tom Brady way is a much better route. Take less, and have the chance to win a bunch of Superbowls. It is not like these guys will be starving.
Goff has a chance to have a Brady/Belacheat/Pats type of Goff/McVay/Rams projection with lots of SB appearances on the horizon. All you have to do is look at the High Dollar QBs on the sidelines this time of year.

The question becomes, do you want a 1-2 year window every 4-5 years, or do you want an open window for years to come. In the end, no one will remember that you made 400 Million instead of 250 Million during your career, but they will remember that you've won 4-5 superbowls instead of 0-1.

I know that it isn't this cut and dry, but If it was me, I'd take the $250M with the chance at being in 8 SBs, instead of $400M and being in 1 SB.

While I agree with you, I'm not gonna fault anyone for maximizing thier dollars .Brady won Superbowls but the team was still ready to let him go for Jimmy g .If owners can make business decisions then so should players.

 

[Ram_Rally]

"experts" who mention QB deals that haven't worked out always fail to mention 2 things :
1. What franchise has successfully ditched contract year QBs and continued winning?

2. Would you prefer the team went into free agency or the draft to find another QB? Because it's not like good ones are a dime a dozen

 

[kurtfaulk]

Which one?

Matt Ryan had better numbers than Goff pretty much across the board and did so playing on a worse team. I think he and Goff are in the same tier, but my overall point is if someone thinks Matt Ryan isn't worth his contract, and Goff will likely be signed to a larger one, and they're in the same tier...

Numbers, pfft. The rams had 6 blow out victories. The falcons were trying to score till the end of the game pretty much in every game because they were so bad.

Falcons scored 414 points this season. The rams scored 527 points. The rams have Todd Gurley, the rams score alot of tds on the ground.

That's the problem when you just look at individual stats. It doesn't show the whole picture.

.

 

[Raptorman]

This is a talking point with media experts, I heard Cowherd just yesterday, none of the top 5 qbs made the playoffs, he said. It probably depends on the list you’re looking at but the one I see has Flacco at 4 (I’m still counting him cuz he did play this year) and Luck at 5, Brees is 6 and Wilson 7.
So 4 of the top ten did make the playoffs, hardly indicative of a “curse” and Ben and Cousins were very close.
The line is that you have a window to get to the super bowl which closes when you pay your qb but this year it’s 50% in the afc and either 4-2 rookies or 3-3 depending on how you classify Philly in the nfc.
There are people who are saying Goff better produce this year or the Rams should consider starting over which to me seems asinine, Wilson and Dak were 3rd rounders every other 1st contract qb was a first rounder. So now they have to spend draft capital to try to get back into the 1st round. Are Trubisky and Dak and Lamar the reasons their teams are successful? Not necessarily, the Rams are going to be good for a while with Goff at qb.

Actually it was that none of the Top 6 paid QB's made the playoffs.

Aaron Rodgers ($33.5 million)
Matt Ryan ($30 million)
Kirk Cousins ($28 million)
Jimmy Garoppolo ($27.5 million)
Matthew Stafford ($27 million)
Derek Carr ($25 million)

 

[Picked4td]

it comes down to how much winning matters to the player. some people are ok with sacrificing wins for the most money possible, and some people are ok with sacrificing money in hopes to win more. theres no right or wrong answer, just a decision to be made.

maybe with offense becoming easier each year we will see more QBs succeed at a higher rate making it easier to not pay an average guy and look for a new QB in the draft, but until then this debate will continue each and every year

 

[yrba1]

I think Goff's new contract will be marginally higher to what the next payday QB will be; key will be in the guarantees. Salary cap goes up every year too so we should be fine building around Goff, Gurley, Donald, and Cooks

 

[LesBaker]

Actually it was that none of the Top 6 paid QB's made the playoffs.

Aaron Rodgers ($33.5 million)
Matt Ryan ($30 million)
Kirk Cousins ($28 million)
Jimmy Garoppolo ($27.5 million)
Matthew Stafford ($27 million)
Derek Carr ($25 million)

Alright........lets take 10MIL off of each of their salaries which would make them paid like pretty good to average QB's.

And lets say that 10MIL gets you a top quality player at whatever position you want. Not a superstar but a guy who is really good.

How many of those teams make the playoffs?

Lets say you take $15MIL from each and you get a superstar player at some positions. I say some because 15MIL doesn't get you a superstar player at every position, most but not all.

How many make the playoffs now?

Lets say you took that 15MIL and got 2 decent players, or one good player and two role players for depth. Or any way you want to spend that 15MIL.

How many of those teams make the playoffs?

Only one 9 win team got in this year. The other WC team got 10 wins. So let's say in order to get that one spot each team would have needed more wins. That means the player or players you got with the extra money would need to add the following to each team.

Packers..........3 to 4 wins depending on tie breakers
Falcons..........2 to 3 wins depending on tie breakers
Vikings..........1 or 2 wins depending on tiebreakers
Lions..........3 to 4 wins depending on tiebreakers
Raiders..........5 to 6 wins depending on tie breakers

I skipped the 49ers because we don't know what would have happen had JG played all year. I have my thoughts, but we will leave them out since he didn't play and the other teams had their starter all year. Teams almost never make the playoffs with a backup, it's rarer than hens teeth. And yes I know the Rams did it with Warner LOL.

My feeling is that it is highly unlikely that any team outside of the Vikings has more than a snowballs chance in hell of gaining that many wins because of one player who isn't a QB. And even that's a long shot.

So it isn't the QB's salary fucking those teams up, their salaries cannot be directly tied to the teams missing the playoffs. It's a straw man of epic proportions. Look at the flaws for each of those teams and you will quickly figure out 10-15MIL more in cap space isn't going to fix them enough to garner the wins needed. And that's WITH those QB's playing at a lower salary.

Also.........with that money going to other players what kind of QB would the team have? Spending 15-18MIL gets you exactly what at QB these days? I'll tell you what it get's you. Mediocre QB play.

There is no merit to the conversation. Even if you took the entire salaries and gave it back to the team to spend as they see fit and the QB's listed above played for free how much of a difference would it make? I'd argue some but not enough except for possibly the Vikings since 28MIL could get some great help.

And before someone says "well look at the teams that made the playoffs with QB's on cheap rookie deals" I will say this.

Look at the rest of the roster. The rosters are full of better talent. Hell the Rams had last years DPOY and OPOY in place before Goff was drafted. Yes paying a guy 3-7 million frees up money, but you still have to use it wisely.

I don't know how this narrative started but it simply isn't the entire story, it's one of a handful of facets.