That's gotta be the end of Rousey's career

[Mackeyser]

I don't blame him, per se, but in a combat sport, you climb the mountain by attrition.

Moreover, you climb the legacy mountain that only champions can even attempt to climb in a way that defines you.

The greatest champions in combat sports took on all challengers head on, willing to put themselves and their legacy to the hazard.

That is why Mayweather was never a great champion. He never risked anything. Moreover, if De la Hoya hadn't gifted him that fight by taking the last three rounds off, this whole aura of invincibility would have been shattered long ago.

Thomas Hearns was a greater Champion in losing to Marvin Hagler than Mayweather ever was. Period. Belt or no belt on the line. And I maintain that that fight is perhaps different if Hearns doesn't break his right hand not long after stunning Hagler. The courage to keep throwing that broken hand is something Mayweather has never approached.

It's one reason why he may be considered to perhaps be up with the greats on a pure skill level, but never when it comes to heart, courage or fortitude. Heck, it's not like boxers can't take it to fighters. Suger Ray took it to Hagler after that in stunning fashion (he cheated, by having someone outside the ring keep time, but still).

He wanted to be the richest boxer of all time and that's fine. But he's not even close to the top 20 GOAT when it comes to "the fight game".

Legacy matters. He went for the money so he gets the money belt. No one gets to rewrite history that he was this badass. Roy Jones Jr, before he lost his timing in stunning fashion was a badass...

Sorry. I just have a thing about fighters who don't want to fight. He ran away from every meaningful contest until it wasn't meaningful at all. Worse, he was always happy to do just enough. Sorry, but "just enough" barely cuts it at minimum wage. It should draw resentment and ire when millions are on the line.

 

[fearsomefour]

I don't blame him, per se, but in a combat sport, you climb the mountain by attrition.

Moreover, you climb the legacy mountain that only champions can even attempt to climb in a way that defines you.

The greatest champions in combat sports took on all challengers head on, willing to put themselves and their legacy to the hazard.

That is why Mayweather was never a great champion. He never risked anything. Moreover, if De la Hoya hadn't gifted him that fight by taking the last three rounds off, this whole aura of invincibility would have been shattered long ago.

Thomas Hearns was a greater Champion in losing to Marvin Hagler than Mayweather ever was. Period. Belt or no belt on the line. And I maintain that that fight is perhaps different if Hearns doesn't break his right hand not long after stunning Hagler. The courage to keep throwing that broken hand is something Mayweather has never approached.

It's one reason why he may be considered to perhaps be up with the greats on a pure skill level, but never when it comes to heart, courage or fortitude. Heck, it's not like boxers can't take it to fighters. Suger Ray took it to Hagler after that in stunning fashion (he cheated, by having someone outside the ring keep time, but still).

He wanted to be the richest boxer of all time and that's fine. But he's not even close to the top 20 GOAT when it comes to "the fight game".

Legacy matters. He went for the money so he gets the money belt. No one gets to rewrite history that he was this badass. Roy Jones Jr, before he lost his timing in stunning fashion was a badass...

Sorry. I just have a thing about fighters who don't want to fight. He ran away from every meaningful contest until it wasn't meaningful at all. Worse, he was always happy to do just enough. Sorry, but "just enough" barely cuts it at minimum wage. It should draw resentment and ire when millions are on the line.

Don't disagree really.
But, I admire Mayweather for not being an idiot. Well, he was an idiot in how he handled himself. But, from a business stand point, I get the guy. He understood "legacy" is something beyond his control in a lot of ways.
Ali is forever quoted as the greatest of all time despite his win sheet listing tons of tomato cans between meaningful fights. I am not comparing the two. What I am saying is legacy is something written in hindsight by people not paying the fighters bills.
I like Floyd.

 

[Mackeyser]

Well, the reasons I dislike Floyd are too long to go into... from beating multiple women to outright lying to fans and then laughing in their faces for believing his lying ass. (He went to jail for it, but the NSAC didn't suspend him. Nate Diaz got 5 YEARS for his 3rd positive test for Marijuana... So, apparently, multiple positives beating women? no suspensions... multiple positives for marijuana? 5 years. Got it.)

Yes, he understood the business side of boxing and due to his superlative skill, was able to parlay that and his business acumen into a ton of dough.

But...he's still a piece of crap and I'll just have to agree to disagree with anyone who wants to sing Floyd's praises beyond his technical skill.

Honestly, the best day in boxing came when Floyd retired. If he comes back, anyone buying any more of his lame, "just enough" product gets what they deserve... taken.

Normally, I'm pretty agreeable, but not about Floyd.

 

[fearsomefour]

Well, the reasons I dislike Floyd are too long to go into... from beating multiple women to outright lying to fans and then laughing in their faces for believing his lying ass. (He went to jail for it, but the NSAC didn't suspend him. Nate Diaz got 5 YEARS for his 3rd positive test for Marijuana... So, apparently, multiple positives beating women? no suspensions... multiple positives for marijuana? 5 years. Got it.)

Yes, he understood the business side of boxing and due to his superlative skill, was able to parlay that and his business acumen into a ton of dough.

But...he's still a piece of crap and I'll just have to agree to disagree with anyone who wants to sing Floyd's praises beyond his technical skill.

Honestly, the best day in boxing came when Floyd retired. If he comes back, anyone buying any more of his lame, "just enough" product gets what they deserve... taken.

Normally, I'm pretty agreeable, but not about Floyd.

I hear ya.
The conversation for me pretty much begins and ends with skill.
I don't care much about the rest.
I'm not looking for heroes.
Some people are great people, some are horrible and most are in the middle somewhere. Regardless of profession. So, I don't give a toss about his person life.
If he were to fight again, which I don't think he will, I would buy it.
Not because I am a sucker or an apologist for his crappy behavior. But, I like watching a skilled smart fighter. To each their own.

 

[Force16X]

i honestly think rousey's fight vs nunes was a combo send off / torch passing for nunes. ronda made out like a bandit for a michael spinks like performance and nunes is now the new queen of badasses. ronda brought the women's division to national attention where it will continue to harvest money for the UCF while they continue to underpay their fighters (15% of all revenue compared to 40+ % in the 4 majors)>

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685605-for-love-not-money-how-low-fighter-pay-is-undermining-mma

 

[dieterbrock]

Funny how Rhonda was seemingly so invincible at one point that many thought she could beat men at same weight....
Now she's had her azz kicked in back to back fights. Personally, I thought it was a bad move to not throw a tomato can in the cage with her for a tune up fight

 

[fearsomefour]

Funny how Rhonda was seemingly so invincible at one point that many thought she could beat men at same weight....
Now she's had her azz kicked in back to back fights. Personally, I thought it was a bad move to not throw a tomato can in the cage with her for a tune up fight

As the saying goes in boxing, fight two for the bills and one for the thrills. As a champ or someone who can choose matches, for every one tough fight that fans want fight two easier "should win" opponents.
Rousey, like most MMA fighters who rise quickly, was hyped beyond her skill. She was juiced up too.

 

[LACHAMP46]

It's as if Rousey was determined to fight on the ground and as soon as she got hit, lost all focus on what was going on

I looked like, again, that she'd never been in a real fight..not in a ring...and had to duck. She has no instincts on how to avoid punches. It's like, she's never had to duck, bob/weave..nothing. Damn shame too...
I can't wait to see Holly Holmes vs Nunez

 

[Mackeyser]

I looked like, again, that she'd never been in a real fight..not in a ring...and had to duck. She has no instincts on how to avoid punches. It's like, she's never had to duck, bob/weave..nothing. Damn shame too...
I can't wait to see Holly Holmes vs Nunez

That's not going to happen because Holmes moved up to the new 145 weight division.

Which was good for her and a lot of women who likely will bring even better fights. People don't realize how SMALL 135 is for a fighter, even women fighters. That's just SMALL.

Granted, you probably aren't going to see many super strong 175 ripped beasts like Cyborg, but we'll see.

And I'm not making any judgments this time around about her test, yet.

She really punked Dana White and the UFC when she did that Weight Cutting Documentary that so shocked people, ESPECIALLY the heads of State Athletic Commissions that some including the head of the California State Athletic Comm. said he wouldn't certify Cyborg at 135 UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES because after seeing that, he didn't deem her medically safe at that weight.

A lot of people don't realize that THAT's part of the reason why they eliminated the IV rehydration starting with UFC 193. That was the card with Rousey v. Holm. I dunno if they did any before, but it was definitely the first time Rousey had to use oral hydration versus her typical IV hydration and you can SEE the difference. After the weight cut, one solid shot and she's dazed because the fluid doesn't immediately go into the blood stream like with the IV. It goes to the gut and slowly distributes via the organs. Thus, after a large weight cut, the brain is still in water deprivation mode only 48 hours after severe weight cut and oral hydration whereas with IV hydration, much of that was restored.

However, they knew that ban from the various State Athletic Commissions was coming, so they ended it.

As Joe Rogan and others have mentioned, the UFC needs to have MORE weight classes and STOP with the massive weight cutting. Institute a WADA/USADA mandatory random weigh-in where the fighter has to maintain a certain weight in order to be eligible to be in a certain weight category. A fighter would be allowed something like an 8% or 10lb differential above category weigh-in, whichever is lower. Of course, heavyweights don't cut weight so it's never applied to them, anyway.

The fight that may be a real doozy, speaking to your point may be Holm v Cyborg if she isn't suspended for the diuretics she was popped for.

See, here's the thing. She got popped for a specific diuretic. It's a diuretic that's specifically used for two things. 1) to help women deal with menstruation issues and 2) to mask certain steroids.

Now, if I hadn't seen the EXTREME degrees a 175 lb lean muscular woman had to go to get down to 140... and what she looked like when she got there (that crap was harrowing, honestly, like concerned for her life harrowing), then I'd be like many of those who convicted her just on the news when she tested positive for a trace of this diuretic.

However, once the fuller picture comes into focus, I'm gonna withhold judgment until a full hearing is made and all the evidence is allowed to come out.

Now, we all know that the various State Athletic Commissions are complete BS as evidenced by the fact that with multiple domestic violence convictions, Mayweather never suffered a single suspension by the NSAC, but Nate Diaz got multiple Marijuana pops and he got a 5 year suspension... Still... without an actual court, there's no other venue to adjudicate it.

Hopefully, she gets an actual hearing and the facts and truth are what come out and the chips fall where they may.

 

[dieterbrock]

I can't wait to see Holly Holmes vs Nunez

Don't know if you will.
Holm has lost 2 in a row since beating Rousey and if she loses in a couple weeks at UFC 208 to Germaine de Randamie, she'll be at the bottom of the card

 

[dieterbrock]

The fight that may be a real doozy, speaking to your point may be Holm v Cyborg if she isn't suspended for the diuretics she was popped for.

Holm is turning out to be a UFC Buster Douglas

 

[Mackeyser]

Holm is turning out to be a UFC Buster Douglas

We'll see. She lost to two super solid people. That's MMA. I mean she lost to a really good Meisha Taint and to Amanda Nunes who is en fuego right now.

Her next opponent isn't exactly in that class. If she loses, then yes, but I don't expect that. Then again, it's MMA.

 

[dieterbrock]

We'll see. She lost to two super solid people. That's MMA. I mean she lost to a really good Meisha Taint and to Amanda Nunes who is en fuego right now.

Her next opponent isn't exactly in that class. If she loses, then yes, but I don't expect that. Then again, it's MMA.

She didn't fight Nunes, she got tapped out by Miesha and then got her butt kicked by Valentina Shevchenko for 5 rounds
But you are ageing with my point, if she loses to Germaine de Randamie, (who is pretty much a tomato can), she's over

 

[Corbin]

I not only called it for Nunes, but the round and HOW it was gonna happen. Table had to give me props. I laid it out. "This fight is all Nunes. Rousey's only chance is to catch Nunes on the high clinch. As long as Nunes fights off the high clinch like Holm did, this fight is over. Quickly. Nunes reminds me of Pernell Whitaker in that I can't remember another fighter that throws so many combinations, so straight and with so much power. Unless Nunes goes brain dead and allows herself to get caught in a high clinch and get flipped, we're looking at a first round KO, probably pretty quick"

That's almost verbatim what I said pretty loudly at the Beef O'Brady's where I, my son and daughter and couple friends who roll BJJ watched. The back room was mostly for Rousey, but I couldn't have cared less. I'd never heard of Nunes and honestly, I was kinda burnt that she got the fight with Taint instead of Holm. WOW, did Nunes shut my mouth and make a huge fan out of me that night.

After I went back and watched some of Nunes' other fights, I wondered why the UFC wasn't promoting this fantastic fighter so much more. It's not like they weren't willing to promote Brazilian fighters.

Meh. Doesn't matter.

Fight played out like I was Sherlock Holmes and the table had to give me props for totally calling the fight. It wasn't exactly Buster Douglas in Tokyo over Mike Tyson, but c'mon... Rhonda Rousey went off at -175? Really? Nunes was the underdog at +145?

What's gonna be interesting to me is how Holly Holm looks at 145, which to me is a much better weight for her...and then... the entrance of Chris Cyborg to the UFC at 145. That's gonna happen.

By the way, can we dispense with any speculation of what would have happened if Cyborg had made weight and fought Rousey? Cyborg would have DESTROYED Rousey. The only question is by how much because Cyborg would have made it personal as they have a history.

Anyway, the whole card was good and I always like it when there's good BJJ in at least ONE fight and there was...the Borg v Smolka fight. DAMN that had some really nice grappling. Borg is young and while he was mostly in control, against a really experienced BJJ practitioner, he would have gotten caught in a couple of really sick triangles. You just can't leave that hand out there while on top.

TJ Dillashaw put on a freaking clinic. Normally I watch and it's pretty easy to nitpick little things here and there. It's pretty rare when a fighter turns in a performance where instead, I'm struck getting excited about all the little things he's doing right and all the synergistic things he's doing that elevate his performance.

Dillashaw v Garbrandt (the new Champ) will be a monster fight. Garbrandt now seems to have his head on straight, having fought for that kid who had leukemia and gave his belt to him. He fought as a complete fighter which is the only reason he was able to so thoroughly dismantle Dom Cruz (the former Champ) a guy who due to his awkward "no style" method of fighting has been really hard for anyone to get to.

All in all, really good card. And if anyone didn't know before... Amanda Nunes is a freaking BEAST and is already one of the best pound for pound best MMA fighters in the world.

Man I really think Garbrandt will stomp Dillashaw without it being much of a fight! It was epic watching him fight Cruz and the look on that kiss face after the fight when he put the belt around him! Lol

 

[Corbin]

We'll see. She lost to two super solid people. That's MMA. I mean she lost to a really good Meisha Taint and to Amanda Nunes who is en fuego right now.

Her next opponent isn't exactly in that class. If she loses, then yes, but I don't expect that. Then again, it's MMA.

She didn't fight Nunes, she got tapped out by Miesha and then got her butt kicked by Valentina Shevchenko for 5 rounds
But you are ageing with my point, if she loses to Germaine de Randamie, (who is pretty much a tomato can), she's over

Lmao Dieter stop with the tomato can comparison! That shits having me rolling! Hahaha

Dude Shevchenko vs. Nunes is going to be a bad ass fight and it's going to be nice to see where Nunes is in here career. Schevchenko gave her some serious problems in their fight before and I seriously think that she has got her game together to beat her now.

As for my fellow New Mexican Holly Holm there is no way she loses to Randamie! She needs to learn some type of ground game to pair with her boxing. Will be interesting to see this who wins the belt for the first time ever in this new division.

 

[dieterbrock]

Appreciate the offer, but I can never figure out how to place a bet.

 

[Corbin]

Hell ya I do! Lol