That clock stoppage at the end...
- Thread starter Ellard80
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I did not have an issue with the call and believe me I am always suspicious. @Karate61 nailed it.
I think the key is there was a stoppage before that last play so the coach can tell the ref they want a timeout and the receiver will go down. If it's a hurry up situation with clock running as they snap it then I think the clock runs out on them. Kicker missed and we won so it's not worth a thought at this point.
It was the right call, as was stopping the clock when the runner went OB
If the shoe was on the other foot, nobody would be complaining
If the shoe was on the other foot, nobody would be complaining
The clock stopped when they called time out after Shaheed gave himself up
I am fine with it if there is a rule around this that is clear.
My issue is, a knee or sliding are the only time its 'instant' like that. If this happened in the middle of a game - well, we've seen guys play possum before, get up and run it in for a TD. That's what I didn't like about it.
Again I don't know the official 'give yourself up' rules, but if its a non 'give yourself up' act, which that absolutely was (he was just laying on the ground the same way he would in the middle of the game because it was a low throw), I am willing to bet the rule is or should be that it takes a second or two before you actually rule the receiver game themselves up. That's what happens in the middle of a game.
My issue is, a knee or sliding are the only time its 'instant' like that. If this happened in the middle of a game - well, we've seen guys play possum before, get up and run it in for a TD. That's what I didn't like about it.
Again I don't know the official 'give yourself up' rules, but if its a non 'give yourself up' act, which that absolutely was (he was just laying on the ground the same way he would in the middle of the game because it was a low throw), I am willing to bet the rule is or should be that it takes a second or two before you actually rule the receiver game themselves up. That's what happens in the middle of a game.
IMO, the worst call/non call had to have been that 1st down that Kyren CLEARLY got based on the sideline cam that was sitting on the 1st down marker. The nose of the ball very clearly touched that line. They actually reviewed it and still blew the call. I knew we were in for a day of fuckery after that, and I was correct.
Here's the NFL rule for how you can declare yourself down without be contacted by a defensive player or stepping out of bounds...
I find it hard to believe that the receiver was actually down long enough for the zebra to consider the receiver DOWN by declaring himself down by clearly giving up and making no move to get up. That process needs to be clear... the ball carrier needs to lay on the ground for a couple of seconds at least before a ref could possibly see that he is clearly not going to make an attempt to advance the ball.
Yesterday, that Seadderall receiver caught the ball while he was going to the ground to catch it. He didn't catch it while standing up and then purposefully drop to the ground to make it clear that he was giving himself up on the play. Like I said, the receiver actually had to make a diving attempt just to catch the pass, so he was on the ground basically when he was in the process of catching the pass. The ref that granted the timeout was actually behind the receiver and did NOT HAVE any clear view as to whether or not the catch was actually made clearly... all he could see from his vantage point was the receiver's back, so that zebra had no way of declaring that a legal catch was made because he could NOT see the ball. In today's NFL, a receiver has to make the catch by having both feet or another body part down on the field of play before touching out od bounds. Then, the receiver has to make some kind of "football move" after that happens and hang on to the ball throughout the entire catch process before the zebra can declare that a successful reception was made. In this case, the zebra had no clear view of the ball... he could not have been able to declare the ball caught successfully if we're being honest. Much less could he have been able to do all of that in the tiny amount of time that he actually did it in yesterday.
That fakkuh (the zebra) declared the ball caught without being able to see the ball while watching the receiver go through the entire catch process, decide that the receiver was CLEARLY giving himself up, and then recognize the timeout request by the receiver in lass than a second. It was like 2 Top Gun fighter pilots maneuvering their jets perfectly while flying through the air without crashing. The level of coordination and timing between the ref who could not see the ball and the receiver diving to the ground in hopes of actually catching the ball was damn near instantaneous.
Go to the 12:23 mark to watch that play yourself. That ref did not have the ability to make the call he made of a completed catch all by himself... much less see that the catch was made and then being able to clearly see that the receiver was giving himself up on the play. That was bullshit.
View: https://youtu.be/S0yqdJlujsw?si=g1Jv-USel3MhhBxt
And just to throw something else out there about this. The receiver could not legally call a timeout until ball was actually declared dead by the zebra. This ref was trying to say all of that happened in basically less than a second of time. Here's the NFL rule for when a timeout can be legally called for by a coach or player.
I find it hard to believe that the receiver was actually down long enough for the zebra to consider the receiver DOWN by declaring himself down by clearly giving up and making no move to get up. That process needs to be clear... the ball carrier needs to lay on the ground for a couple of seconds at least before a ref could possibly see that he is clearly not going to make an attempt to advance the ball.
Yesterday, that Seadderall receiver caught the ball while he was going to the ground to catch it. He didn't catch it while standing up and then purposefully drop to the ground to make it clear that he was giving himself up on the play. Like I said, the receiver actually had to make a diving attempt just to catch the pass, so he was on the ground basically when he was in the process of catching the pass. The ref that granted the timeout was actually behind the receiver and did NOT HAVE any clear view as to whether or not the catch was actually made clearly... all he could see from his vantage point was the receiver's back, so that zebra had no way of declaring that a legal catch was made because he could NOT see the ball. In today's NFL, a receiver has to make the catch by having both feet or another body part down on the field of play before touching out od bounds. Then, the receiver has to make some kind of "football move" after that happens and hang on to the ball throughout the entire catch process before the zebra can declare that a successful reception was made. In this case, the zebra had no clear view of the ball... he could not have been able to declare the ball caught successfully if we're being honest. Much less could he have been able to do all of that in the tiny amount of time that he actually did it in yesterday.
That fakkuh (the zebra) declared the ball caught without being able to see the ball while watching the receiver go through the entire catch process, decide that the receiver was CLEARLY giving himself up, and then recognize the timeout request by the receiver in lass than a second. It was like 2 Top Gun fighter pilots maneuvering their jets perfectly while flying through the air without crashing. The level of coordination and timing between the ref who could not see the ball and the receiver diving to the ground in hopes of actually catching the ball was damn near instantaneous.
Go to the 12:23 mark to watch that play yourself. That ref did not have the ability to make the call he made of a completed catch all by himself... much less see that the catch was made and then being able to clearly see that the receiver was giving himself up on the play. That was bullshit.
View: https://youtu.be/S0yqdJlujsw?si=g1Jv-USel3MhhBxt
And just to throw something else out there about this. The receiver could not legally call a timeout until ball was actually declared dead by the zebra. This ref was trying to say all of that happened in basically less than a second of time. Here's the NFL rule for when a timeout can be legally called for by a coach or player.
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El Chapo Jr
Legend
Agree with this 100%. Only rules I know about giving up yourself is sliding. A lot of WRs catch the ball falling and get up to get extra yards if no one touches them. Clock should have went to zero.
I kind of disgree with your analysis here. The rule states a runner declares himself down by "clearly making no immediate effort to advance".
You can see in this screenshot, with 1 second showing on the clock, the Seattle receiver is sitting up making no effort to advance the ball, and has already called timeout. Furthermore, Durant is touching him so regardless of declaring himself down, he was touched down with 1 second on the clock.
Now, I am no rules expert...this is just how I see it, and I think it was a good call.
I will add one more thing. It seems like the clock operator "possibly" stopped the clock a bit early, and that the receiver had called time-out when there should have been no time left on the clock. I think this is a bit of an issue. It's close. The receiver may have got the first time out signal just before zero. Maybe the NFL should have a clock like the NBA showing time less than a second.
He did give himself up... but that simply cannot be judged to have happened almost instantly after a catch was declared.
And the important part is... that zebra had no way of seeing the ball to determine if the catch was actually made. That has to happen 1st.
Then it has to be determined that the player is CLEARLY giving himself up.
Only at that point could the ball be considered down and out of play. That has to happen BEFORE a timeout can be legally called.
Impossible
He couldn't even determine if the catch was made from where he was standing. He could only see the receiver's back. Not to mention the receiver had to make a diving catch that could have very easily been dropped. That ref made the call anyway. By the rules, that ref could not have made that call of a completed catch.
I posted the rules out of the current NFL Rulebook in my op as well. They confirm what I said. There is no Grey Area.
El Chapo Jr
Legend
Go back and watch the video. The clock was stopped at 1 second about 2 seconds before this screen shot
Yeah. I said that in my post, below my screenshot. It looks like the receiver would have called time-out after time expired, if the clock wasn't stopped early. I agree with you on that...
El Chapo Jr
Legend
Honestly at this point it's just us discussing whether we think it's bullshit or not. In reality we won the game which is what ultimately matters. Happy nothing came back to bite us in the ass at the end.
Right call / bad clock operator (stopped 2-3 seconds too soon)
I bet if you were neutral watching this game and asked to note all the questionable calls, you'd probably have it fairly even.
I can't remember who it was now, but we avoided a clear PI that should have been against us early on. We also got away with a couple of obvious holding calls. And we had a ridiculous first down given to us when Puku was half a yard short in the last game.
But most fans forget about the ones that did go their way and remember the ones that didn't go their way. It's human nature.
Conspiracy talk is just nonsense.
Can you imagine how many people would have to be involved in such a conspiracy? It would bring the NFL down if it got out, and it would get out.
I can't remember who it was now, but we avoided a clear PI that should have been against us early on. We also got away with a couple of obvious holding calls. And we had a ridiculous first down given to us when Puku was half a yard short in the last game.
But most fans forget about the ones that did go their way and remember the ones that didn't go their way. It's human nature.
Conspiracy talk is just nonsense.
Can you imagine how many people would have to be involved in such a conspiracy? It would bring the NFL down if it got out, and it would get out.