Thank the Gods for Goff and McVay

[majrleaged]

I’m talking about pass pro

It all effects protection. By the way I never said one way or another on wentz. I figure they will both be good. If rams picked wentz I would be rooting for him to be better than Goff. They didn't so I don't. But I'm not blind to wentz talent. Just don't like when people argue a point and use statements that aren't true to back them up. Plus I don't understand rooting against your teams qb just because it would make you right about who the rams should have picked.

 

[FarNorth]

Disagree on 2....Wentz's arm is superior to Goff's, not that Goff's is bad at all, but Wentz can throw it through a brick wall. And stop with this two years older stuff, I realize it is a difference, but Wentz is built bigger and it does not matter how much older his is, he will always be physically bigger than Goff and that does not actually matter.

Wentz is a gamer and he's having a great season and Goff is improving each week too, overall, they both are going to be very good QB's IMO.

not so sure... Goff had higher velocity at the combine.

 

[jrry32]

Wentz has a stronger arm. The combine velocity measurement is flawed. But arm strength is overrated.

 

[jrry32]

Disagree on 2....Wentz's arm is superior to Goff's, not that Goff's is bad at all, but Wentz can throw it through a brick wall. And stop with this two years older stuff, I realize it is a difference, but Wentz is built bigger and it does not matter how much older his is, he will always be physically bigger than Goff and that does not actually matter.

Wentz is a gamer and he's having a great season and Goff is improving each week too, overall, they both are going to be very good QB's IMO.

I don't think he's bringing age up to say Goff will get as big as Wentz. He's making the point that Wentz should be mentally ahead of Goff considering their respective ages, but he doesn't seem to be.

 

[Dxmissile]

It all effects protection. By the way I never said one way or another on wentz. I figure they will both be good. If rams picked wentz I would be rooting for him to be better than Goff. They didn't so I don't. But I'm not blind to wentz talent. Just don't like when people argue a point and use statements that aren't true to back them up. Plus I don't understand rooting against your teams qb just because it would make you right about who the rams should have picked.

I never cared about about Wentz but when I said a shakier offensive line that’s exacly what I meant, based off of pressures and sacks their pass protections has been shakier than the Rams. I’m definitely not rooting against Goff Just pointing out that both can do good and be good without bashing the other

 

[FarNorth]

Wentz has a stronger arm. The combine velocity measurement is flawed. But arm strength is overrated.

What's the basis for this conclusion, or it it an opinion? Could Wentz have made the throws Goff did on the last drive against Seattle? I'm not sure about that either.

 

[jrry32]

What's the basis for this conclusion, or it it an opinion? Could Wentz have made the throws Goff did on the last drive against Seattle? I'm not sure about that either.

It's both a conclusion and an opinion from watching almost every single game both guys played in college and watching every single game Goff has played in the NFL (along with more than a handful of Wentz NFL games).

Yes, Wentz could have made that throw. Wentz has an insanely strong arm. He made multiple throws against Carolina while under pressure without his feet set that had serious mustard on them. He has one of the strongest arms in the NFL.

To compare them, Goff's arm strength is in the Brady tier. He has tremendous touch, he can make all the throws you need from a NFL QB, and he can zip it in when necessary if he's mechanically sound. Wentz's arm strength is in the Rodgers tier. He can zip it in even when he's mechanically unsound. He can make throws that maybe 3-5 other NFL QBs can make.

Wentz simply generates velocity effortlessly when throwing. Goff needs his lower body. Wentz doesn't.

It doesn't make Goff a lesser QB. I'm just being honest.

Why do I think the Combine velocity measurements are meaningless? There are four good reasons why:
1. The results don't align with the eye test;
2. QBs have admitted to not taking it seriously;
3. It doesn't mimic real football situations; and
4. It doesn't represent what arm strength really is.

 

[UKram]

I wanted Wentz pre draft just from what I heard and read and seen and hell i just liked the guy I saw Big Ben Esque qualities but less rapey but when it was clear Goff was the pick I was all in I legit see Brady like qualities but less Whiney .... I think they are both going be the nfl faces ala Peyton and Brady ... and the likes of Watson dak tribuskry being the Brees rivers cam of this generation

 

[shovelpass]

Do they throw in pads at combine?
Austin Davis had the same combine velocity as Goff, and no one is going to argue that Davis has a strong arm.
Combine stats suddenly matter? Somewhere out there a vindicated @LACHAMP46 is smiling.

Based off of the "eye test" Wentz throws a tight spiral and can throw a "laser " while on the run. Some of Goff's passes are a bit wobbly and a few of his throws on the run flutter and fail to reach their target.
Does this matter? No.

 

[PhillyRam]

I think Goff has more arm talent, but I would say Wentz is more capable of playing with a lesser supporting cast because he can run around more and make plays with his feet.

The downside of that is he takes a lot of hits and could break down over time.

So basicly I am saying surround Goff with good talent and I think he will put up great numbers as he gains more experience. If they don't give him a line and playmakers he will struggle like Matt Ryan did for a few years in Atlanta before they rebuilt thst offense.

 

[den-the-coach]

I don't think he's bringing age up to say Goff will get as big as Wentz. He's making the point that Wentz should be mentally ahead of Goff considering their respective ages, but he doesn't seem to be.

Good point and last year Wentz was mentally ahead of Goff, however, the coaching has evened the score to a degree, but right now as much as Goff has improved, Wentz is playing at a different level IMHO and again taking nothing away from the growth of Jared Thomas Goff.

 

[den-the-coach]

not so sure... Goff had higher velocity at the combine.

Hmmm.........I'm going to ignore Velocity because some posters used that statistic a few years ago for Austin Davis....Carson Wentz can throw the football further than Goff and again not saying Goff's arm is sub par at all, it's fantastic, but Wentz can throw the ball further.

 

[LACHAMP46]

We just played the toughest team (defensively) on our schedule...We're about to play another defensive team that could be better...I wouldn't be slapping ourselves on the back just yet.

It's obvious whose arm is stronger...It appears obvious who's more accurate....Philly has played a tougher schedule to this point...That matters...

 

[den-the-coach]

Wentz has a stronger arm. The combine velocity measurement is flawed. But arm strength is overrated.

It might be, until you need to throw the ball far, then it's not.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Goff vs Wentz comparisons is a worthless argument. JMHO.:blah::blah:

 

[den-the-coach]

Goff vs Wentz comparisons is a worthless argument. JMHO.:blah::blah:

IDK @bubbaramfan it's always going to be a subject for at the very minimum a few years and I thought you would enjoy the debate because, it does not cost that much.

 

[bubbaramfan]

Yeah, I track it den, when there's nothing else to read, but still thinks its a worthless argument.:redcard:

 

[UKram]

We just played the toughest team (defensively) on our schedule...We're about to play another defensive team that could be better...I wouldn't be slapping ourselves on the back just yet.

It's obvious whose arm is stronger...It appears obvious who's more accurate....Philly has played a tougher schedule to this point...That matters...

And yet we were one dropped pass away from winning it ...

 

[jrry32]

Good point and last year Wentz was mentally ahead of Goff, however, the coaching has evened the score to a degree, but right now as much as Goff has improved, Wentz is playing at a different level IMHO and again taking nothing away from the growth of Jared Thomas Goff.

I disagree. I think they're playing at the same level. You still see a lot of good and bad in each. For example, Wentz gave Carolina the ball back late and a chance to win the game because he blew an easy read. Carolina tried to blitz him on a late third down but didn't bother to cover one of his WRs. Wentz forced it to the covered TE over the middle who couldn't pull in the low throw with a defender on his back instead of the wide open WR. Earlier in the game, Wentz took an unnecessary sack when he didn't audible the play to account for the blitz the Panthers were showing. He made some nice throws and plays, but his defense also set him up with great field position to score TDs off a couple turnovers.

I didn't see a QB in that game who was at all different from Goff in terms of development at this point in time. Both are making a lot of plays but still leaving some on the field. That's not surprising from second-year QBs. If anything, I've been highly impressed with Goff's ability to get us in the right play at the LOS (see the Austin TD against Seattle). I haven't seen that from Wentz, but admittedly, I haven't been watching the Eagles as closely.

 

[jrry32]

It might be, until you need to throw the ball far, then it's not.

Throwing the ball far really isn't arm strength. That's mechanics. Arm strength comes into play on plays such as:
1. Tight window throws from the pocket to the sidelines in the intermediate to deep range on out-breaking routes;
2. Throws where you don't have time to set your feet; and
3. Deep throw trajectory/arc.