Terrell Owens: Hall of Fame “should be purely based on stats”

[Prime Time]

Well of course he would say that but unfortunately for him that's not reality. "The Pro Football Hall of Fame celebrates five core Values – commitment, integrity, courage, respect, and excellence – that are not only necessary to achieve greatness on the football field but are also required to succeed in life."
http://www.profootballhof.com/celebrating-integrity-everywhere/

But then again, Marvin Harrison wasn't exactly squeaky clean himself and was voted in. As far as I know, T.O. was never suspected or convicted of any serious crime. His main problem was that he was perceived, rightly or wrongly, for being a divisive figure on every team he played for. Imo, Terrell Owens should be in the Hall of Fame based on what he achieved during his career. What do you think?
**************************************************
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...hall-of-fame-should-be-purely-based-on-stats/

Terrell Owens: Hall of Fame “should be purely based on stats”
Posted by Darin Gantt on April 8, 2016

AP

If there were a Fantasy Football Hall of Fame, Terrell Owens would definitely be in it already. He thinks the Pro Football Hall of Fame should have the same criteria.

Owens responded to criticism from actual Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison by simply pointing to the statistical differences between them, and saying that should put him in and Harrison out.

During an interview with Maria Menounos on SiriusXM — who admitted to not knowing who Harrison was (I wonder if she thinks T.O. has changed now) — Owens tried to make it as simple as numbers.

“He played a number of years with Peyton Manning, he’s an incredible receiver,” Owens said. “But again, when it comes to what the Hall of Fame is all about in terms of the criteria to get in, it should be purely based on stats and obviously my stats are better than his. . . .

“Of all the gold jackets that were there leading up to the actual day of the induction, everybody for sure was like I was a shoe-in. And at some point, yeah, I feel like I will get in, but I think with the body of work and what I did for the game, I should have been in first ballot.”

For the record, Harrison played in 190 games, caught 1,102 passes (third all-time) for 14,580 yards (seventh) and 128 touchdowns (fifth).

Owens played in 219 games, caught 1,078 passes (sixth) for 15,934 yards (second) and 153 touchdowns (third).

So in three more seasons, Owens caught 24 fewer passes, but had 1,354 more yards and 25 more touchdowns.

But, while we’re looking up numbers, Hall of Famers Lynn Swann and John Stallworth combined for just 873 receptions for 14,185 yards and 114 touchdowns, so maybe they should each give up their jackets so Owens can get in on his schedule.

In the history of the Hall of Fame, only five wide receivers have been chosen in their first year of eligibility — Raymond Berry (1973), Lance Alworth (1978), Paul Warfield (1983), Steve Largent (1995) and Jerry Rice (2010).

Owens has better numbers than all of them but Rice. Then again, so do Isaac Bruce and Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson and Steve Smith and Henry Ellard and Torry Holt and Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin. As rules have made things easier for the modern passing game, modern passing statistics have ballooned. Putting that variable into context is an annual challenge for selectors.

And while Owens seems offended by having to wait, among recent Hall of Famers, Andre Reed waited nine years for induction, Tim Brown and Cris Carter six each and Michael Irvin three.

The point is, times change, and the Hall of Fame has written its guidelines for selectors vaguely for a reason. Choosing a class is an annual blend of art and science, and with a maximum of five slots for modern era candidates to be divided among players at 22 positions (plus special teamers), it can’t be a simple mathematical exercise.

 

[CanRamFan]

I agree with TO. The HOF should be filled with the greatest football players, not the greatest personalities.

 

[DaveFan'51]

His main problem was that he was perceived, rightly or wrongly, for being a divisive figure on every team he played for.

To me this^ is a Big enough reason to not vote him in! Bad image for the Kids! JMO The "Image of a Hall of Famer should be something to hold up to your kids and say BE LIKE THIS GUY!!"

 

[LesBaker]

“Of all the gold jackets that were there leading up to the actual day of the induction, everybody for sure was like I was a shoe-in. And at some point, yeah, I feel like I will get in, but I think with the body of work and what I did for the game, I should have been in first ballot.”

I can only say "what the fuck are you talking about TO".

He's a germ.

 

[-X-]

Well of course he would say that but unfortunately for him that's not reality. "The Pro Football Hall of Fame celebrates five core Values – commitment, integrity, courage, respect, and excellence – that are not only necessary to achieve greatness on the football field but are also required to succeed in life."
http://www.profootballhof.com/celebrating-integrity-everywhere/

 

[lockdnram21]

Should a been first ballot IDC what anyone says

 

[kurtfaulk]

"The Pro Football Hall of Fame celebrates five core Values – commitment, integrity, courage, respect, and excellence – that are not only necessary to achieve greatness on the football field but are also required to succeed in life."

that defines kurt warner. and he somehow wasn't chosen as a first ballot hofer. or even a 2nd.

although i shouldn't have been surprised. kurt was never shown any respect by the media. they treated him as a joke when he was going through his rough patch. thought he was a just a guy that martz made successful. i'll never forget an article i read after the cards got trounced by the jets in 2008. the writer gave it to warner throughout the article and was all up favre's jock as well. he finished it with - that's why warner will never get into the hof and favre will be in the fist ballot. this is what kurt is up against.

.

 

[drasconis]

I agree with TO. The HOF should be filled with the greatest football players, not the greatest personalities.

This was discussed back at the hall vote.....

What do you mean "greatest personalities"?
If you mean guys who work the media...I think most would agree.
If you mean to ignore everything but stats....well I think many would say secondary things like leadership/teamwork are pretty important to a team and its' success.

I don't think anyone cares that he didn't suck up top the media (though he tried...poorly), I think people question how much harm he did in the locker rooms in-which he played.

 

[CGI_Ram]

 

[jap]

that defines kurt warner. and he somehow wasn't chosen as a first ballot hofer. or even a 2nd.

although i shouldn't have been surprised. kurt was never shown any respect by the media. they treated him as a joke when he was going through his rough patch. thought he was a just a guy that martz made successful. i'll never forget an article i read after the cards got trounced by the jets in 2008. the writer gave it to warner throughout the article and was all up favre's jock as well. he finished it with - that's why warner will never get into the hof and favre will be in the fist ballot. this is what kurt is up against.

.

Favre isn't worthy to carry Kurt's jockstrap.

 

[Warner4Prez]

Yeah, I don't get not voting the guy in. Just more petty BS by those that do the voting. Eerily reminiscent to how the MLB voters refuse to put even the most obvious Hall of Famers in with 100% support, based on some sort of ridiculous principle. Great you've shown TO now!

 

[tempests]

although i shouldn't have been surprised. kurt was never shown any respect by the media. they treated him as a joke when he was going through his rough patch. thought he was a just a guy that martz made successful. i'll never forget an article i read after the cards got trounced by the jets in 2008. the writer gave it to warner throughout the article and was all up favre's jock as well. he finished it with - that's why warner will never get into the hof and favre will be in the fist ballot. this is what kurt is up against.

OK, Warner was a two time MVP, an award handed out by the AP. And he is a member of the media now.

He's not "up against" anything but a crowded ballot.

 

[drasconis]

Yeah, I don't get not voting the guy in. Just more petty BS by those that do the voting. Eerily reminiscent to how the MLB voters refuse to put even the most obvious Hall of Famers in with 100% support, based on some sort of ridiculous principle. Great you've shown TO now!

So which guy do you take out last year? Do you have him get in before Bruce? This isn't a one and done thing....it is (at least partially) waiting your turn. There are only a handful of guys that are so good they leapfrog everyone to be a first ballot induction....do you put him on that list? Does he leapfrog Bruce, Holt, Harrison...

Seriously guys like Carter, Irvin, and Tim Brown had to wait.

 

[Prime Time]

Eerily reminiscent to how the MLB voters refuse to put even the most obvious Hall of Famers in with 100% support, based on some sort of ridiculous principle.

http://www.notinhalloffame.com/baseball/888-1a-pete-rose

Statistically, there is no argument about the Hall of Fame qualifications of Pete Rose. Even the most casual baseball fan is aware that “Charlie Hustle” is the all time hit king with 4,256 hits; a record that may never be broken. Rose also was a seventeen time All Star, and proved to be a clutch performer as evidenced by his three World Series Rings; including a World Series MVP. Sadly, as much as casual sports fans are aware of Rose’s on field accomplishments, many who have never turned their dial to ESPN knows his off field embarrassments.

As many are aware, Pete Rose was banned from baseball for betting on the sport. This has always been considered a taboo in Major League Baseball as they have always prohibited their players from betting on the sport. Rose was caught doing such and most specifically, regularly wagering on his own team.

Here is where it gets interesting for us at NIHOF. We will flat out tell you that the five of us who comprise the NIHOF committee are borderline degenerate gamblers, so for us to come down on a kindred spirit seems so wrong to us. With that said, there is nothing in our line of work that prevents us from placing a wager or two; there was for Pete Rose.

Where it got worse was that Rose denied the allegations for years. How different would it have been had he owned up and admitted what he did? When heroes fall (and sadly we are a society that wants to see it happen) the expectation is that they own up to their mistakes and they are forgiven. One only has to look at the current situation with Andy Petite and Roger Clemens and see the reactions to these two pitchers. Petite apologized, and when he pitches today, fans don’t think about his former PED use. Clemens is on TV, and all we can think about are his hollow denials.

This isn’t to say that Pete Rose would have been reinstated had he admitted his guilt. Baseball is an institution rooted so deeply in tradition that it often fails to move forward. There is a very sizable chance that Rose would have remained ineligible had he admitted that wrongdoing twenty years ago. What probably cemented his fate is that when he finally did admit gambling on Baseball it was in 2004 upon releasing a book. The timing was awful as he did so two days after the Baseball Hall of Fame announced their 2004 inductees. It reeked of selfishness, and the apology fell flat to many.

Regardless, we are hopeful that at some point in time, Pete Rose becomes inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. There should be no doubt that his is the greatest omission of any Hall of Fame period. There is no question about that. Pete will however likely be our “1A” candidate for years to come.

‘Enough is enough’: The impassioned Hall-of-Fame case for Pete Rose
By Kevin Kernan

http://nypost.com/2015/07/11/enough-is-enough-the-impassioned-hall-of-fame-case-for-pete-rose/

CINCINNATI — Just around the corner from Pete Rose Way, Ken Richter was taking pictures of his granddaughters frolicking among the bronze statues near the entrance of Great American Ball Park.

This was a scene of baseball innocence as the All-Star Game makes its way here Tuesday. Unofficially, you can call this the Pete Rose All-Star Game.

This is a proud city that loves its baseball and its heroes — even when they have done wrong. Rose has been banished from baseball since 1989, but around here they want Rose back in the game and they want him in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

This is the real Rose City. Rose grew up here and played 19 years with the Reds.

“As a kid I played against him. He was always Charlie Hustle, even though he didn’t have the nickname yet,’’ said Richter, who went to Woodward High School while Rose was at Western Hills.

“I remember him all the way back to Knothole Ball,’’ Richter said. “Pete was not without a few bad habits. But I think it would fitting for us to forgive and forget.

“It’s a great sport, I love it, grew up with it, and I think Pete helped the game.’’

Rose will step on the field Tuesday night for one of the few times since his banishment and will receive a huge ovation as part of the “Franchise Four’’ promotion — along with Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan and Barry Larkin. It promises to be an emotional moment.

New commissioner Rob Manfred said in spring training he will review Rose’s request for reinstatement. But a recent ESPN report said Rose bet on baseball not only as a manager but as a player.

That was long ago and baseball has forgiven so many of its stars for other transgressions.

Rose, 74, is hoping for the best.

“Just being on the field is going to be enough for me,’’ Rose, a FOX broadcaster, said a few days ago.

This will be the first All-Star Game he has attended when he has not been a player.

“I’ll love it,’’ the 17-time All-Star said. “Don’t forget that’s my hometown. The ballgame is actually being played on Pete Rose Way, the stadium is on Pete Rose Way.’’

Jeff Ruby, a New Jersey native and steakhouse owner, is a longtime friend of Rose. He does not mince words when it comes to Pete and a possible reinstatement.

“Enough is enough,’’ Ruby said. “We forgave Tokyo Rose, why can’t we forgive Pete Rose?’’

Tokyo Rose, who broadcast Axis propaganda to Allied troops during World War II, was pardoned in 1977 by President Ford.

“Pete transcends baseball,’’ Ruby said. “There are CEOs, coaches, operatives of companies who use Pete Rose as a standard. You don’t have to have the greatest talent, but if you give it everything you got like Pete Rose did in baseball, you can become the best in your career. Whether it was the Army, the Air Force, the Marines or Proctor & Gamble, it was Pete Rose we used as an example of giving it all you got. So it went beyond baseball.’’

Reds broadcaster Marty Brennaman is a big backer of baseball’s hit king and his return to the game. Brennaman said Rose should be in the Hall of Fame, noting Rose’s memorabilia is in Cooperstown.

“He should have a plaque and if you want to put an asterisk on it, explaining the whole story, do it, but Pete should be in the Hall of Fame,’’ Brennaman said.

Rose owns 4,256 hits. Those who played the game have respect for him. Don Mattingly remembers getting a hit in 1984 in a spring training game and the words Rose spoke to him.

“Pete was playing first for Montreal,’’ the Dodgers manager said. “And he goes to me, ‘200 hits a year, kid, get 200 hits every year.’ He’s always been great to me. To hear that from a guy I watched as a kid, I’ll never forget that.’’

That season Mattingly got 200 hits for the first time.

Former umpire Ed Montague was manning first base in 1985 the night Rose became the hit king at Riverfront Stadium, passing Ty Cobb.

“Here he comes up to bat and it was the perfect setting,’’ Montague said. “The Goodyear Blimp was overhead. The sky was pinkish red. It was like out of the movie ‘The Natural.’ Flashbulbs were going off, he gets the hit, and Steve Garvey and I standing there and Little Pete comes out and Garvey and I both had a tear in our eye. Eric Show sat on the mound and Garry Templeton brought the ball over to Pete, and the ovation went on forever.’’

Reds star and NL All-Star third baseman Todd Frazier said he believes Rose should be in the Hall of Fame, and he has seen first-hand the love of the hometown fans.

“Whenever he is introduced at a game, I look at the clock that counts down the time between innings,’’ the Toms River American Little League star said. “It lasts like a minute and 30 seconds. He’s the hit king. I love Pete.’’

Around here, nearly everyone loves Pete Rose. You notice it when you are from out of town. Derek Kirschner, from Akron, sells premium imported beers, so his work takes him to a number of local establishments. On this night he was at the Blind Lemon Café, a popular spot in the Mt. Adams neighborhood, just up the hill from Great American Ball Park.

“If you want to get in a fight with someone over the age of 35,’’ Kirschner said with a smile, “just tell them that Pete Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame.’’

Patrick Moore, who grew up in Connecticut and is in real estate here, said, “Pete Rose owns one of the most impressive achievements in baseball history. After he’s had all these years to be shoved aside by the game, it’s getting to the point where it’s unnecessary. His passion for the game is infectious. It would be good for the game to forgive him. Fans would be really pleased about it.’’

Yes, they would.

It’s a different time, Rose said.

“All I can tell you is, I’m not the same guy today as I was 25-30 years ago,” Rose said. “I made mistakes and I’m not the same guy.’’

“You know what’s interesting,’’ Kirschner said, “here’s a guy who can’t get back into baseball and can’t get into the Hall of Fame, and because of it, he’s the most famous one of them all.’’

Noted Rose, “I’ve probably signed more autographs for kids under 12 than any retired baseball player ever. That’s real rewarding. The grandpas are talking to their kids and their kids are talking to their kids. I’m not even in baseball, of course I’m connected to it because of FOX, but I believe I’m the best ambassador baseball has — 4 ¹/₂ to 5 hours a day all I do is sign autographs. All I do is talk positive about the game of baseball. I don’t rush anybody through in the autograph line. I’m a positive person, there are too many negative people in the world we live in. I’m a people person.

“Thank God I’m the hit king because that gives young people the reason to want my autograph,’’ Rose said. “I have a lot of records and people who like baseball, like records.’’

Sally Muehlenkamp’s godfather, Richard Bathiany, was Rose’s track coach in high school.

“He said Pete always gave 110 percent,’’ Muehlenkamp said. “My godfather moved to Florida and used to see Pete in spring training, and Pete would always come over to the fence and take the time to talk to my godfather. That’s Pete. He never forgot his roots, and that’s why people love him.

“I think Pete is a good person who made some horrible mistakes,’’ Muehlenkamp said. “I wish he would have gotten help a long, long time ago then we wouldn’t be having this conversation now.’’

Aisha Wright has met Rose several times through her work as a guest services agent at a local hotel.

“He’s really a nice person,’’ she said. “The gambling situation was there, but it’s the past, this is the present, give him his props.’’

Back at the entrance of Great American Ball Park, Richter remembered his mother-in-law, Irma Fassnachd who died a few years ago at the age of 101.

“She loved Pete Rose and had all kinds of memorabilia,’’ Richter said. “I sort of had mixed emotions for a while regarding Pete, but it’s time.’’

Time for Pete Rose to be back in baseball.

As he talked, his granddaughters laughed among the bronze statues of Ted Kluszewski, Joe Nuxhall, Ernie Lombardi and Frank Robinson. There are statues of Bench, Morgan and a Tony Perez statue was just completed.

There is no statue of Pete Rose.

 

[-X-]

There is no statue of Pete Rose.

And that's messed up beyond compare.

It wasn't until 1991 that the rule came into effect that players on the permanently ineligible list couldn't be voted in to the hall.
Wanna ban him from baseball forever? That's fine. But keeping him out of the hall on a technicality? It's almost criminal.

 

[Warner4Prez]

http://www.notinhalloffame.com/baseball/888-1a-pete-rose

Statistically, there is no argument about the Hall of Fame qualifications of Pete Rose. Even the most casual baseball fan is aware that “Charlie Hustle” is the all time hit king with 4,256 hits; a record that may never be broken. Rose also was a seventeen time All Star, and proved to be a clutch performer as evidenced by his three World Series Rings; including a World Series MVP. Sadly, as much as casual sports fans are aware of Rose’s on field accomplishments, many who have never turned their dial to ESPN knows his off field embarrassments.

As many are aware, Pete Rose was banned from baseball for betting on the sport. This has always been considered a taboo in Major League Baseball as they have always prohibited their players from betting on the sport. Rose was caught doing such and most specifically, regularly wagering on his own team.

Here is where it gets interesting for us at NIHOF. We will flat out tell you that the five of us who comprise the NIHOF committee are borderline degenerate gamblers, so for us to come down on a kindred spirit seems so wrong to us. With that said, there is nothing in our line of work that prevents us from placing a wager or two; there was for Pete Rose.

Where it got worse was that Rose denied the allegations for years. How different would it have been had he owned up and admitted what he did? When heroes fall (and sadly we are a society that wants to see it happen) the expectation is that they own up to their mistakes and they are forgiven. One only has to look at the current situation with Andy Petite and Roger Clemens and see the reactions to these two pitchers. Petite apologized, and when he pitches today, fans don’t think about his former PED use. Clemens is on TV, and all we can think about are his hollow denials.

This isn’t to say that Pete Rose would have been reinstated had he admitted his guilt. Baseball is an institution rooted so deeply in tradition that it often fails to move forward. There is a very sizable chance that Rose would have remained ineligible had he admitted that wrongdoing twenty years ago. What probably cemented his fate is that when he finally did admit gambling on Baseball it was in 2004 upon releasing a book. The timing was awful as he did so two days after the Baseball Hall of Fame announced their 2004 inductees. It reeked of selfishness, and the apology fell flat to many.

Regardless, we are hopeful that at some point in time, Pete Rose becomes inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. There should be no doubt that his is the greatest omission of any Hall of Fame period. There is no question about that. Pete will however likely be our “1A” candidate for years to come.

‘Enough is enough’: The impassioned Hall-of-Fame case for Pete Rose
By Kevin Kernan

http://nypost.com/2015/07/11/enough-is-enough-the-impassioned-hall-of-fame-case-for-pete-rose/

CINCINNATI — Just around the corner from Pete Rose Way, Ken Richter was taking pictures of his granddaughters frolicking among the bronze statues near the entrance of Great American Ball Park.

This was a scene of baseball innocence as the All-Star Game makes its way here Tuesday. Unofficially, you can call this the Pete Rose All-Star Game.

This is a proud city that loves its baseball and its heroes — even when they have done wrong. Rose has been banished from baseball since 1989, but around here they want Rose back in the game and they want him in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

This is the real Rose City. Rose grew up here and played 19 years with the Reds.

“As a kid I played against him. He was always Charlie Hustle, even though he didn’t have the nickname yet,’’ said Richter, who went to Woodward High School while Rose was at Western Hills.

“I remember him all the way back to Knothole Ball,’’ Richter said. “Pete was not without a few bad habits. But I think it would fitting for us to forgive and forget.

“It’s a great sport, I love it, grew up with it, and I think Pete helped the game.’’

Rose will step on the field Tuesday night for one of the few times since his banishment and will receive a huge ovation as part of the “Franchise Four’’ promotion — along with Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan and Barry Larkin. It promises to be an emotional moment.

New commissioner Rob Manfred said in spring training he will review Rose’s request for reinstatement. But a recent ESPN report said Rose bet on baseball not only as a manager but as a player.

That was long ago and baseball has forgiven so many of its stars for other transgressions.

Rose, 74, is hoping for the best.

“Just being on the field is going to be enough for me,’’ Rose, a FOX broadcaster, said a few days ago.

This will be the first All-Star Game he has attended when he has not been a player.

“I’ll love it,’’ the 17-time All-Star said. “Don’t forget that’s my hometown. The ballgame is actually being played on Pete Rose Way, the stadium is on Pete Rose Way.’’

Jeff Ruby, a New Jersey native and steakhouse owner, is a longtime friend of Rose. He does not mince words when it comes to Pete and a possible reinstatement.

“Enough is enough,’’ Ruby said. “We forgave Tokyo Rose, why can’t we forgive Pete Rose?’’

Tokyo Rose, who broadcast Axis propaganda to Allied troops during World War II, was pardoned in 1977 by President Ford.

“Pete transcends baseball,’’ Ruby said. “There are CEOs, coaches, operatives of companies who use Pete Rose as a standard. You don’t have to have the greatest talent, but if you give it everything you got like Pete Rose did in baseball, you can become the best in your career. Whether it was the Army, the Air Force, the Marines or Proctor & Gamble, it was Pete Rose we used as an example of giving it all you got. So it went beyond baseball.’’

Reds broadcaster Marty Brennaman is a big backer of baseball’s hit king and his return to the game. Brennaman said Rose should be in the Hall of Fame, noting Rose’s memorabilia is in Cooperstown.

“He should have a plaque and if you want to put an asterisk on it, explaining the whole story, do it, but Pete should be in the Hall of Fame,’’ Brennaman said.

Rose owns 4,256 hits. Those who played the game have respect for him. Don Mattingly remembers getting a hit in 1984 in a spring training game and the words Rose spoke to him.

“Pete was playing first for Montreal,’’ the Dodgers manager said. “And he goes to me, ‘200 hits a year, kid, get 200 hits every year.’ He’s always been great to me. To hear that from a guy I watched as a kid, I’ll never forget that.’’

That season Mattingly got 200 hits for the first time.

Former umpire Ed Montague was manning first base in 1985 the night Rose became the hit king at Riverfront Stadium, passing Ty Cobb.

“Here he comes up to bat and it was the perfect setting,’’ Montague said. “The Goodyear Blimp was overhead. The sky was pinkish red. It was like out of the movie ‘The Natural.’ Flashbulbs were going off, he gets the hit, and Steve Garvey and I standing there and Little Pete comes out and Garvey and I both had a tear in our eye. Eric Show sat on the mound and Garry Templeton brought the ball over to Pete, and the ovation went on forever.’’

Reds star and NL All-Star third baseman Todd Frazier said he believes Rose should be in the Hall of Fame, and he has seen first-hand the love of the hometown fans.

“Whenever he is introduced at a game, I look at the clock that counts down the time between innings,’’ the Toms River American Little League star said. “It lasts like a minute and 30 seconds. He’s the hit king. I love Pete.’’

Around here, nearly everyone loves Pete Rose. You notice it when you are from out of town. Derek Kirschner, from Akron, sells premium imported beers, so his work takes him to a number of local establishments. On this night he was at the Blind Lemon Café, a popular spot in the Mt. Adams neighborhood, just up the hill from Great American Ball Park.

“If you want to get in a fight with someone over the age of 35,’’ Kirschner said with a smile, “just tell them that Pete Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame.’’

Patrick Moore, who grew up in Connecticut and is in real estate here, said, “Pete Rose owns one of the most impressive achievements in baseball history. After he’s had all these years to be shoved aside by the game, it’s getting to the point where it’s unnecessary. His passion for the game is infectious. It would be good for the game to forgive him. Fans would be really pleased about it.’’

Yes, they would.

It’s a different time, Rose said.

“All I can tell you is, I’m not the same guy today as I was 25-30 years ago,” Rose said. “I made mistakes and I’m not the same guy.’’

“You know what’s interesting,’’ Kirschner said, “here’s a guy who can’t get back into baseball and can’t get into the Hall of Fame, and because of it, he’s the most famous one of them all.’’

Noted Rose, “I’ve probably signed more autographs for kids under 12 than any retired baseball player ever. That’s real rewarding. The grandpas are talking to their kids and their kids are talking to their kids. I’m not even in baseball, of course I’m connected to it because of FOX, but I believe I’m the best ambassador baseball has — 4 ¹/₂ to 5 hours a day all I do is sign autographs. All I do is talk positive about the game of baseball. I don’t rush anybody through in the autograph line. I’m a positive person, there are too many negative people in the world we live in. I’m a people person.

“Thank God I’m the hit king because that gives young people the reason to want my autograph,’’ Rose said. “I have a lot of records and people who like baseball, like records.’’

Sally Muehlenkamp’s godfather, Richard Bathiany, was Rose’s track coach in high school.

“He said Pete always gave 110 percent,’’ Muehlenkamp said. “My godfather moved to Florida and used to see Pete in spring training, and Pete would always come over to the fence and take the time to talk to my godfather. That’s Pete. He never forgot his roots, and that’s why people love him.

“I think Pete is a good person who made some horrible mistakes,’’ Muehlenkamp said. “I wish he would have gotten help a long, long time ago then we wouldn’t be having this conversation now.’’

Aisha Wright has met Rose several times through her work as a guest services agent at a local hotel.

“He’s really a nice person,’’ she said. “The gambling situation was there, but it’s the past, this is the present, give him his props.’’

Back at the entrance of Great American Ball Park, Richter remembered his mother-in-law, Irma Fassnachd who died a few years ago at the age of 101.

“She loved Pete Rose and had all kinds of memorabilia,’’ Richter said. “I sort of had mixed emotions for a while regarding Pete, but it’s time.’’

Time for Pete Rose to be back in baseball.

As he talked, his granddaughters laughed among the bronze statues of Ted Kluszewski, Joe Nuxhall, Ernie Lombardi and Frank Robinson. There are statues of Bench, Morgan and a Tony Perez statue was just completed.

There is no statue of Pete Rose.

Rose's situation is unique in that he did break the rules and beyond that, continued to burn bridges for the next 20-30 years lying about it. If it were up to me, I'd still put him in.

I'm thinking more of the curious case of guys like Craig Biggio who sat on the outside looking in for a few years despite being a 3K hit club member top 20 in runs and just a few shy of 300 homers. Clearly HoF worthy, one of the best 2nd basemen that would reside in the hall, but they put him on the shelf because of the 'era' he played in.

I think Owens belongs in before Harrison and his numbers are better than Brown and Carter. He had similar numbers to Bruce, obviously the TDs push him over the top. Doesn't mean I like him as a player or person, but the dude was a great receiver. For all the negative attention his attitude drew, he doesn't get near enough credit for the work he put in off the field for keeping in peak performance shape. The guy could probably be a WR2 on this team come September.

 

[Fatbot]

Numbers without context always lie. Terrell Owens' stats are one of the biggest lies of professional football history when put into context of system & era. All his stats proved was a big receiver (even despite stone hands and lack of speed) that played in the west coast offense for 15 years will compile a lot of padded stats. But Jerry Rice already proved that anyway and he's already in the hall of fame, so no need for Owens.

 

[Warner4Prez]

So here's an off topic question then that I think we as fans are going to have to face: who becomes Hall worthy over the next decade?

When you consider guys like Bruce and Holt appear to be fringe worthy at WR, I don't know of anyone coming down the pipe at that position even close. After AP retires, what RB is close? SJ, Gore, Lynch - not sure if any of them are up to snuff.

Of course Manning and then Brady a few years after. I see a lot of defensive guys and very few offensive guys over the next decade.