Target To Eliminate Signs Specifying Boys Or Girls Toys

[fearsomefour]

Every parent impacts and influences their kids. Intentional or not.
Chemistry generally bucks most things.

 

[Ramhusker]

Why so many pink toys? Market analysis is the short answer. I don't think there is any social engineering involved. Mattel does its homework. It's what they do for a living. If girls quit liking pink, you'll see no pink. My daughter, almost 14, has thrown pink down. Now, it's all about blueish green colors. Why? Hell if I know but she's extremely happy with that shade now. Barbies? gone. Now, it's paints, musical instruments, lab kits, dancing, cooking only because it involves mixing things together and getting something else. When I stop to think about her now, it's all about that, mixing things together to build something, a song, a dance, a meal, painting, etc. She is exhausting me with it all and I couldn't be prouder. An 8th grader taking high school classes, high school dancing (5 classes, $3K worth :eek, 4H, Beta club, band, Art club, etc. She needs a personal assistant. And if I took her to Target's toy section, she wouldn't care where she got her supplies, except of course, when it comes to clothes, shoes, and purses. She 100% female at that point!

 

[fearsomefour]

Why so many pink toys? Market analysis is the short answer. I don't think there is any social engineering involved. Mattel does its homework. It's what they do for a living. If girls quit liking pink, you'll see no pink. My daughter, almost 14, has thrown pink down. Now, it's all about blueish green colors. Why? Hell if I know but she's extremely happy with that shade now. Barbies? gone. Now, it's paints, musical instruments, lab kits, dancing, cooking only because it involves mixing things together and getting something else. When I stop to think about her now, it's all about that, mixing things together to build something, a song, a dance, a meal, painting, etc. She is exhausting me with it all and I couldn't be prouder. An 8th grader taking high school classes, high school dancing (5 classes, $3K worth :eek, 4H, Beta club, band, Art club, etc. She needs a personal assistant. And if I took her to Target's toy section, she wouldn't care where she got her supplies, except of course, when it comes to clothes, shoes, and purses. She 100% female at that point!

Boys are pretty brand conscious now too. Teenagers always are I suppose, but, both my boys were way more than I was.

 

[bluecoconuts]

lab kits

When I stop to think about her now, it's all about that, mixing things together to build something,

 

[Stranger]

The message coming from media is pretty clear. If you haven't figure it out yet, than Miley Cyrus' clothes tells young people how to think...

 

[Stranger]

Miley Cyrus Is Not Alone: 9 Other Stars Making Gender Fluidity Mainstream

Cyrus and Caitlyn Jenner may be the celebs-du-jour challenging our gender assumptions, but there are others you should know about.

By Kali Holloway / AlterNet
June 30, 2015

Caitlyn Jenner’s recent turn as a Vanity Fair cover girl not only made her into a trans icon, it turned the topic of gender identity into a mainstream talking point. And just a few months prior, Miley Cyrus declared that she considered herself neither a “girl or a boy.” Each of these revelations helped demonstrate how gender is often complex and sometimes unfixed; that the sexes assigned to us at birth by virtue of our genitalia may not always match our internal gender identities.

What’s more, those identities may not fall under the headers of “man” or “woman,” but can be even more malleable and fluid. There are an infinite number of gender identities — a spectrum that runs from masculine to feminine, boy to girl — that sit in the space between. There are plenty of ways to express this idea: Gender fluid. Non-gender conforming. Gender queer. The idea of gender fucking, or intentionally blurring the socially constructed (and artificial) boundaries of gender, has existed in outsider culture (particularly art, music and performance scenes) for eons.

more...
http://www.alternet.org/gender/miley-cyrus-not-alone-9-other-stars-making-gender-fluidity-mainstream

 

[beej]

some day people are going to look back and say, "That was all so stupid!!" but right now, HEY! all this shape shifting stuff is the coolest thing. And who am I to exercise freedom of thought? No, I think it's great....

 

[Mackeyser]

Or... They might just look back and wonder how society existed conforming to such rigid biological oriented gender norms.

It wasn't that long ago when mixed couples were told their lives would be so hard and eventually people would look back and say "all this race mixing is just stupid. Each race should just keep to their own." That's presuming mixed race marriage wasn't illegal in that state.

History shows that this probably isn't a fad, but rather the rapidity of the exposure of gender identity into our society, our consciousness, and our conversation is merely a function of modern technology.

So, while I could be wrong, I don't think people will look back and think gender fluidity or gender identity issues were stupid. Rather, I think they'll look back on this time as nascent, tumultuous... The beginning. It will be seen as a time of struggle both for those trying to live their truth and for those trying to understand.

 

[fearsomefour]

So, while I could be wrong, I don't think people will look back and think gender fluidity or gender identity issues were stupid. Rather, I think they'll look back on this time as nascent, tumultuous... The beginning. It will be seen as a time of struggle both for those trying to live their truth and for those trying to understand.

The problem is there is no room for THE truth. Reality doesnt change much.
My truth, your truth, someone else's truth doesn't matter. Drops of water in the ocean and nothing more. I am no more concerned with anyone else's "truth" than they are with mine. Someone who is so conflicted, insecure or unstable as to have real struggles functioning in a free society should start their search by looking in the mirror.
Just my humble opinion of course.

 

[Mackeyser]

The problem is there is no room for THE truth. Reality doesnt change much.
My truth, your truth, someone else's truth doesn't matter. Drops of water in the ocean and nothing more. I am no more concerned with anyone else's "truth" than they are with mine. Someone who is so conflicted, insecure or unstable as to have real struggles functioning in a free society should start their search by looking in the mirror.
Just my humble opinion of course.

Well, okay. Fair enough.

So, when the science comes out that there are infinite levels of gender identity between purely male and purely female and that forcing people to align their gender identity to their biological assignment can and likely will be cause for mental stress or illness and that THAT bit of science is THE truth...

well, will there be room for it?

I ask because I hear this alot on a number of different topics.

Denial of something because the science isn't fully in... then when the science does come in... denial for a different reason.

Well, I'm just saying that the science is pointing pretty clearly in the direction that I stated. We're learning a LOT and rapidly that while you and I may not experience this, it's a very real thing. And it's not going away any more than the internet is going away.

Now, I'm not suggesting that "someone else's truth" should impinge on your rights or your truth. But... that's almost never the question. The question is whether "someone else's truth" has the right to exist...at all.

That was the argument for civil rights. That was the argument for gay rights (and continues to be, cuz gay rights isn't a finished fight). And that will be the argument when it comes to gender identity.

How will our currently bi-gender (meaning two gender) society cope with this disruption to the norm, to this redefinition that has large and small implications? Well, we'll do our best. There will be funny moments and tragic moments. There will frustrating moments and tiresome moments. The moments will run the gamut. And, eventually, we'll understand. Companies will formulate coherent workplace policies and develop products that cater to a new market. TV, Radio and Web producers will make content that reflect our new demographic reality. Comedians will make new observations. New crimes will be committed. New laws will be passed.

In other words... life will go on.

 

[fearsomefour]

How will our currently bi-gender (meaning two gender) society cope with this disruption to the norm, to this redefinition that has large and small implications?

This speaks to something different....at its least harmful it is the creation of an "industry" for people pushing an agenda. At its worse it is something more dire. But, this is what happens when feelings over rule law. Feelings shouldn't matter.
At this point, I will take any comments I have off of the open thread.

 

[Mackeyser]

I'm still unclear what feelings you're talking about so feel free to hit me up and let me know. I would agree for the most part that our laws require objectivity. I'm just unclear how you mean feelings and that they rule law.

 

[Debacled]

I'm down for more girls thinking paintball and video games rock

That said, I'm not down for how big of a deal this is being made into. When I grew up the toy aisle was the toy aisle. Kids are going to gravitate towards what they like anyways.

What I would definitely be against is pushing the "neutral" agenda so far that its forcing kids to select toys that typically cater to the other gender. Let them pick don't force.

 

[brokeu91]

Seriously the transgender stuff has gone to far. I can understand the dilemma of an adult who is in the process of changing genders feeling awkward about going into a "boys" or "girls" bathroom, but seriously this needs to end.

I'm a psychiatrist and I can tell you we have no idea what kind of psychological or sociological problems we might be creating by trying to "tear down" gender. I don't want to get all biological or anything but the fact remains that there are sexes for a reason. Evolution provided hundreds of millions of years doing this for a reason. Maybe the vast minority are different, but study after study shows the majority of us are hardwired to want to be gender identified as men or women. Heck babies can identify the different genders before they turn one. Trying to train kids to not identify one way or the other is going to cause problems for the majority of those that do indeed identify as their gender.

Sometimes I fee sorry for the next generation, they'll never know better

 

[bluecoconuts]

I don't think it's about trying to train kids to not identify themselves with a particular gender, man or woman, but rather just let them be who they want to be. If they want to play with trucks, play with trucks, if they want to play with dolls, play with dolls, etc.

 

[Ramhusker]

I don't think it's about trying to train kids to not identify themselves with a particular gender, man or woman, but rather just let them be who they want to be. If they want to play with trucks, play with trucks, if they want to play with dolls, play with dolls, etc.

I agree about letting kids play with what they want. But then the question becomes, why change a thing at Target's toy department? Why mention it to the world like you are doing something special? Like my wife said today, "What change did you have to make to allow a kid to walk into the toy section and gravitate to what they want? They already do that." This coming from a woman who's uncle took her 1st cousin to the store and let him buy a barbie doll as a kid. Her cousin knew early in life he was gay and his father was an incredible dad, especially for being in South Georgia in the sixties, for letting his kid be himself, It wasn't exactly a popular stance in that local and era.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I agree about letting kids play with what they want. But then the question becomes, why change a thing at Target's toy department? Why mention it to the world like you are doing something special? Like my wife said today, "What change did you have to make to allow a kid to walk into the toy section and gravitate to what they want? They already do that." This coming from a woman who's uncle took her 1st cousin to the store and let him buy a barbie doll as a kid. Her cousin knew early in life he was gay and his father was an incredible dad, especially for being in South Georgia in the sixties, for letting his kid be himself, It wasn't exactly a popular stance in that local and era.

So kids don't feel pressured into getting something they don't want? Or from a business standpoint, so kids will be more willing to ask for a toy they want. All they did was take down the signs that designated girls or boys, so why announce it? To pat themselves on the back, just like everyone else.

 

[Ramhusker]

So kids don't feel pressured into getting something they don't want? Or from a business standpoint, so kids will be more willing to ask for a toy they want. All they did was take down the signs that designated girls or boys, so why announce it? To pat themselves on the back, just like everyone else.

Much ado about nothing I guess. I don't think kids pay attention to any signs that designate gender toys. I'm pretty sure they go straight to what's on their minds. So I'm not sure what pressure they are feeling from the toy section. Kids pretty much feel pressured from two sources, from their peers and from their parents/teachers. As far as the business standpoint goes, I don't think the retailer gives a flip if the kid even wants what they get as long as a toy is bought and not brought back.

 

[Athos]

Just as a short story, I used to have to wear girls shoes as a very young kid because the bastards who make shoes or did back then, never made anything to fit extremely narrow feet with no arch.

I fucking Hated it every time I had to get new shoes because if be smack in the girls section.

Now that's a bit different than toys, but it's the same general feeling I imagine kids have when adults pressure you in every fucking direction.

Who ask why the change? Why the change in the first place? They weren't separated in the past. It's going back to how it was.

Maybe Target is getting ahead of the marketing curve by implementing it now. I seriously doubt one Twitter complainer forced the change. It was prolly something the company has been discussing.

As for the self claimed comment from the psychiatrist, that's dangerously close to calling it a psychological problem that should be solved.

I am a believer that in some cases the brain chemistry just doesn't match the biological sex.

And we aren't "training kids" to ID one way or the other.

We are simply removing societal rules that tell you what you should be rather than providing the freedom with which to figure it out Yourself.

 

[brokeu91]

Just as a short story, I used to have to wear girls shoes as a very young kid because the bastards who make shoes or did back then, never made anything to fit extremely narrow feet with no arch.

I freaking Hated it every time I had to get new shoes because if be smack in the girls section.

Now that's a bit different than toys, but it's the same general feeling I imagine kids have when adults pressure you in every freaking direction.

Who ask why the change? Why the change in the first place? They weren't separated in the past. It's going back to how it was.

Maybe Target is getting ahead of the marketing curve by implementing it now. I seriously doubt one Twitter complainer forced the change. It was prolly something the company has been discussing.

As for the self claimed comment from the psychiatrist, that's dangerously close to calling it a psychological problem that should be solved.

I am a believer that in some cases the brain chemistry just doesn't match the biological sex.

And we aren't "training kids" to ID one way or the other.

We are simply removing societal rules that tell you what you should be rather than providing the freedom with which to figure it out Yourself.

First of all I meant no disrespect to you.

But the fact remains that we have no idea what this will do to children. I really don't care about whether a kid plays with a doll or a truck, I really don't. And really there's no evidence that a boy playing with a doll is more likely to identify as a girl. I'm more concerned that by trying to blur the lines of gender we have no idea what this will do. I speak with child psychiatrists who's parents bring them in when they are 8 years old, because they think that the child is transgendered, and want them on hormone therapy. We're talking 8 year olds put on sex hormones. We have no idea what that will do to the biological development of that child.

The fact remains that the vast majority of people identify themselves with their own gender. Does that mean we should discriminate against people who don't? No. But that doesn't mean we should be encouraging children to "explore" their gender identity. That was what I was writing about and what I'm concerned about. Believe it or not our brains are hardwired to identify a certain way. By telling kids to explore this we might be causing a lot of internal conflicts that we have no idea how it will impact the child, and then later when he grows the adolescent and then the adult. To be honest, I could care less what Target does with it's toys.

By the way, gender dysphoria is a psychological problem. It's poorly understood, despite what the media tells you and it's difficult to treat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria