Spruce

[LACHAMP46]

Why can't we just find a Torry Holt for once?

Those guys are usually in the first or second round....or found with great scouting later...

Why not give Spruce or Cooper some targets from the slot position?
Yeah, by taking Tavon off the field at times. It's not as if he's setting the world on fire as a WR, is it?

These guys ARE slot wrs....This makes PERFECT sense...pay no attention to the Tavon is God crowd....shuttle them in, and lets see if they can play...

I think we all lived in a bubble, thinking Spruce, Cooper, and Thomas would be special in preseason

Thomas is the only special guy outta that group...I have a suspicion, if he were to play, he'd do very well...He's the true game changer...As -X- says, a "Torry Holt" type player....IMO, slot receivers, like Cooper, SPRUCE, and Tavon...are a dime a dozen....

 

[DaveFan'51]

I just don't see any problem in rotating our 4th receiver around a bit, to mix things up on opponents D, and give other players some real game time reps! We did it in the GSOT days! Give Spruce a few reps per game, it can't hurt!

 

[-X-]

shuttle them in, and lets see if they can play...

We already know they can play. The unknown is whether or not they have the playbook down or can execute sight adjustments. That typically takes some time to adapt to through practice reps and film study. You can usually tell when a receiver is encumbered by thinking about what to do as opposed to just doing it. They look slower and sloppier than they did when in college.

 

[dieterbrock]

Seems to me that Spruce showed chemistry with Mannion, while Cooper with Goff/Mannion
Since neither Goff or Mannion is actually playing, neither are they
Keenum worked primarily with Britt/TA/Kendricks, and that is where the ball is going

 

[Corbin]

Our top 3 WRs are playing well. He's a rookie. Makes sense that he's not playing.

Funny this is the reason I was thinking why Goff isn't playing.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

He had one nice pre-season game against scrubs and then got himself hurt. So as an undreafted free agent, Spruce made the team
Not earned playing time.

Keenum already has WR that are having career years that should stay on-field.

WTF does New England have to do with Rams personnel? Oh yeah, nothing,

I have ZERO problem with the upward swing in production from the passing game which has to be attributed to HC JF.

Woah! Ease up there chief. Let the wtf's back at the old place. I don't know what you are getting so upset about. You have a tendency to do that don't you?

I think Spruce deserved some snaps to see what he can do. You don't. Why get so mad about it? Your anger doesn't change my mind, or intimidate my opinion. Spruce has great hands and can get open from what I can see. Why even draft someone or sign a UDFA if you dint give them a chance? Might as well not sign any of them.

And I see guys with similar games flourish in this short passing league, Mike Groh's words, not mine, I am sure you know who he is. The Pats have two of them and a few others on other teams now that are what Amendola was to Bradford. A few snaps a game aren't going to hurt Quick, Britt, or Tavon.

 

[Rams43]

It's completely the opposite, dude. Your criticisms of Tavon are based on reputation and not on film. I've watched a lot of Tavon film this year. He's playing good football for us. He's succeeding as a traditional WR. He's given guys like Richard Sherman and Patrick Peterson problems.

The issue that Tavon has is that Keenum is both small and not particularly accurate. When you combine that with Tavon also being small, it presents issues. Keenum is more comfortable with big-bodied guys like Quick and Britt because they are easier to spot and have a bigger catch radius.

Tavon is a guy who will really benefit from Goff when he gets in the game. But even in the mean time, Tavon is worth his weight in gold as a decoy, blocker, and receiver. He's not under-performing. There's absolutely no reason to bench him for a rookie.

Film trumps box-scores. Here are two things the box-score doesn't show you...on the drive where Gurley was stopped short of the end-zone before half, Austin drew two penalties:
1. A 22 yard pass interference penalty
and
2. A defenseless WR penalty

That's not going to go down in the box-score, but those are two very important plays that helped put us in position to score a TD.(which we failed to do) That's also not considering all the plays where he drew coverage away from other WRs or got the defense flowing in the wrong direction when he went in motion.

It's also worth mentioning that Tavon isn't really a slot WR in our scheme.

I agree that Tavon will benefit from Goff at QB, 32. But hell, all receivers will. Lol.

As to Tavon not being a slot receiver? Well, he may be a receiver without a position. I mean, both Britt and Quick are outplaying him outside this year. Big Time.

I get that you don't like just box scores. And I agree that stats can be very misleading. Both ways, incidentally.

But my bottom line is that for a WR that's being force fed at Fisher's orders? I'm not seeing the TD's, catches, and yardage that I would expect from a $42 million #8 overall pick that we traded up for.

WTH do we have to lose by giving Spruce or Cooper, if healthy, a series or two? I mean, we're 3-3 and on a two game losing streak. We would need to finish with 7-8 wins in our final 10 games to make the playoffs. A highly unlikely scenario, I think you would agree.

I favor the experiment. Viva the Scientific Process! Lol.

 

[JonRam99]

Gurley vs. Benny: It's all about the opposing D. When Benny is in, who will the D key on? Him? or the WR's, thinking that Benny is the "third down back"?
When Gurley is in, you have 9 guys trying to block 11 D. They will ALWAYS key on on him if he's on the field, he is the Ram's most dangerous playmaker. That's why I think that, at the moment, Benny is getting better "blocking" because the blockers aren't trying to block 2 extra guys, some coming in free when Gurley's on the field. Most of Gurley's yards are YAC, most of the time with initial contact in the backfield. It's amazing he's been able to grind out the yards he does. He said he's seeing "12 men on the field", because for all intents & purposes, that's what he's seeing. If the Rams sub in Benny, he'll get better production, up unto the point the D starts keying on him. I wouldn't leave him in for a full series, but in spots, he has the speed & shake to be dangerous.
If anything, why don't they do some of what Buffalo is doing w/ Shady? Did you guys see the highlights of the Bills demolishing the SF D? They direct snapped to Shady ("wildcat") a number of times, once on the goal line for a quick TD. With that, they'd have 10 guys blocking 11. Gurley "wildcatted" a bunch at UGA, he can do it. If they had done that on 4th & goal in Detroit, I think Gurley would've made it.

 

[jrry32]

I agree that Tavon will benefit from Goff at QB, 32. But hell, all receivers will. Lol.

As to Tavon not being a slot receiver? Well, he may be a receiver without a position. I mean, both Britt and Quick are outplaying him outside this year. Big Time.

That's very arguable. In fact, Quick is actually playing some snaps out of the slot.

I get that you don't like just box scores. And I agree that stats can be very misleading. Both ways, incidentally.

But my bottom line is that for a WR that's being force fed at Fisher's orders? I'm not seeing the TD's, catches, and yardage that I would expect from a $42 million #8 overall pick that we traded up for.

That's the issue. He's not being force-fed the ball. Other than those stupid screens. He's getting open. The reason why his numbers aren't better are due to a combination of things. But even without the numbers, he still is changing the game in so many different ways when he's on the field.

WTH do we have to lose by giving Spruce or Cooper, if healthy, a series or two? I mean, we're 3-3 and on a two game losing streak. We would need to finish with 7-8 wins in our final 10 games to make the playoffs. A highly unlikely scenario, I think you would agree.

You lose nothing. We rotate our WRs all the time. Nobody has an issue with rotating those guys in as other WRs get rest or we go to 4 or 5 WR sets. The issue is that you wanted to give them Austin's reps. It makes no sense. Even when he's not touching the ball, Austin changes the way teams play our offense.

 

[jrry32]

Funny this is the reason I was thinking why Goff isn't playing.

If Keenum were playing as well as Britt, I'd be fine with Goff sitting on the bench all year.

But there's also a MAJOR difference between a #1 overall pick sitting on the bench and a 4th round pick or a UDFA sitting on the bench. If we had a #1 overall pick at WR, I think people would also be clamoring for him to play. I would be too.

 

[Rams43]

That's very arguable. In fact, Quick is actually playing some snaps out of the slot.



That's the issue. He's not being force-fed the ball. Other than those stupid screens. He's getting open. The reason why his numbers aren't better are due to a combination of things. But even without the numbers, he still is changing the game in so many different ways when he's on the field.



You lose nothing. We rotate our WRs all the time. Nobody has an issue with rotating those guys in as other WRs get rest or we go to 4 or 5 WR sets. The issue is that you wanted to give them Austin's reps. It makes no sense. Even when he's not touching the ball, Austin changes the way teams play our offense.

We just see this one differently, 32.

Let's agree to disagree, shall we?

 

[jrry32]

We just see this one differently, 32.

Let's agree to disagree, shall we?

Sure.

 

[lockdnram21]

Please indulge me for a moment, 32.

Here are Tavon's career stats... http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15786/tavon-austin

I ask that you direct your attention to his WR numbers for '16. Just those numbers only, since that's the relevant topic in this discussion.

Underwhelming, especially since Fisher has ordered that Tavon be force fed targets. Targets that it would appear would be better spent elsewhere?

Look, Fisher is all in on Tavon and Gurley. For better or worse. So far this season, it kinda leans more toward the worse, don't you think?

So no, I don't think it's irrational at all to run an experiment with another slot receiver in lieu of Tavon for a series or two. Hell, I think I could make a better case that it was MORE irrational NOT to run such an experiment to test an underperforming player. Tavon has been living on his reputation all year long.

Actually hasn't Tavon been on the outside for most part? I've seen times where Quick or BRITT was in the slot. I wanna see more Cooper but as everybody knows I'm not a real fan of Spruce.

 

[lockdnram21]

Spruce should be getting some playing time IMO. He earned it in pre-season and looks to be the perfect safety valve for Keenum. I think Fisher is failing to take advantage of a good thing with his conservative nature. Spruce would be tearing it up in New England.

I still Don't get how he earned it vs 3rd stringers? Imo he's lucky he's even on the team. No room for him Britt and Quick should get majority of targets like they are... if anybody should get targets it's Kendricks or Higbee. Especially since Spruce isn't on special teams

 

[lockdnram21]

Those guys are usually in the first or second round....or found with great scouting later...

These guys ARE slot wrs....This makes PERFECT sense...pay no attention to the Tavon is God crowd....shuttle them in, and lets see if they can play...

Thomas is the only special guy outta that group...I have a suspicion, if he were to play, he'd do very well...He's the true game changer...As -X- says, a "Torry Holt" type player....IMO, slot receivers, like Cooper, SPRUCE, and Tavon...are a dime a dozen....

I agree with everything except Tavon like @jrry32 said Tavon has been abusing cb not his fault it's Keenums. Once Goff plays I think Tavon will be more like Desean Jackson

 

[lockdnram21]

I just don't see any problem in rotating our 4th receiver around a bit, to mix things up on opponents D, and give other players some real game time reps! We did it in the GSOT days! Give Spruce a few reps per game, it can't hurt!

Actually he's like the 6th

Britt
Quick
Austin
Cooper
Thomas
Marquez
Spruce....
I don't see any reason for Spruce to be active. Thomas and Marquez both play teams

 

[tavian]

Mike Thomas - 2015
71 receptions
1394 receiving yards
19.6 yards per reception
14 receiving TDs

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5hq-x4_5UA


I think he can catch the football. Simply put, drops aren't a big deal when a WR can get open consistently. Nobody cared when Brandon Marshall, Wes Welker, Terrell Owens, etc. were leading the league in drops because they were also putting up monster production.

Well at the moment he has more drops than receptions in his short career.
So he needs to spend some time improving his hands.
My money is on Spruce to be the most productive of our wr's drafted this year.
He too can get open and catch the ball.He is not as electric as Thomas after the
catch,but can still be very affective for us.
Just out of curiosity who is this "nobody" you speak of and how dare he not care.

 

[jrry32]

Well at the moment he has more drops than receptions in his short career.
So he needs to spend some time improving his hands.
My money is on Spruce to be the most productive of our wr's drafted this year.
He too can get open and catch the ball.He is not as electric as Thomas after the
catch,but can still be very affective for us.
Just out of curiosity who is this "nobody" you speak of and how dare he not care.

I'd love to meet a person who took issue with what those guys were doing on the field during their primes.

 

[tavian]

I'd love to meet a person who took issue with what those guys were doing on the field during their primes.

Everybody drops the ball from time to time.
I just hope he is more like the guys you spoke of and
not like what Jared Cook became.Drops in too many
key situations made his drops outweigh his production.

 

[Memento]

We made the same points again.

Fate, I loved that movie as a kid. Kudos for making a gif out of it.

In any case, I'd love for Spruce, Thomas, and Cooper to get more reps. But that's likely to happen next year.