Somebody sell me on Goff

[Mackeyser]

I'd take Brees. I considered him the better QB in his prime than Ben in his prime.

Well, that may be by any number of empirical standards.

I would posit, however, that Big Ben was the better fit for the Steeler offenses when they won their multiple Super Bowls and with no other position being more sensitive to "fit" than QB, that's why I favor Wentz.

Both are quality guys. Even if they both were able to start at the same time (I'm fairly certain that Wentz's pro O background puts him ahead) and their various measurables basically made them even.. I'd be for Wentz for two reasons: Intensity and fit.

Wentz is intense and it's clear in his approach. When he trucks that DB to get that TD, you realize that he's not messing around. And he fits what the Rams are on D and trying to be on O: tough, intense and relentless.

But, as I said, both are quality guys. If they go with Goff, I'll just be left wondering how they will "fit" Goff in because they have yet to do that with any other QB. Wentz already fits.

Like you, I don't have much faith that this crew can mold a QB to fit what they want to do which is why they really need to go with the one who already fits.

 

[Mackeyser]

.

I didn't see any meltdown regarding the Gurley pick. Alot of people were happy with the pick.

.

There was some, but I was thrilled. And pretty much after that first game he started, that pretty much evaporated.

 

[Logy]

Wentz is intense and it's clear in his approach. When he trucks that DB to get that TD, you realize that he's not messing around.

The thing that worries me about Wentz is that in the FCS he can truck that DB, but just as in Soviet Russia in the NFL DB trucks you.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Is it GRob/Matthews all over again? Maybe. I don't think that Wentz is raw in the way that GRob was so I don't think that the analogy relates in the same way.

+1

 

[Mackeyser]

The thing that worries me about Wentz is that in the FCS he can truck that DB, but just as in Soviet Russia in the NFL DB trucks you.

Well, yeah. I do NOT want him trying that in the NFL. My point was that when he needed it, he lowered his shoulder and he GOT IT. The man wasn't going to be denied. That level of intensity and focus is infectious. We've seen it on our defense.

This kid will bring it to our offense.

 

[jrry32]

Well, that may be by any number of empirical standards.

I would posit, however, that Big Ben was the better fit for the Steeler offenses when they won their multiple Super Bowls and with no other position being more sensitive to "fit" than QB, that's why I favor Wentz.

Maybe, maybe not. But Brees in his prime was an elite QB. Ben never reached that level for me. Brees was even a better playoff performer than Ben. If the Rams can't craft a system around a guy like Drew Brees, they need to let the coaching staff go.

Both are quality guys. Even if they both were able to start at the same time (I'm fairly certain that Wentz's pro O background puts him ahead) and their various measurables basically made them even.. I'd be for Wentz for two reasons: Intensity and fit.

Wentz is intense and it's clear in his approach. When he trucks that DB to get that TD, you realize that he's not messing around. And he fits what the Rams are on D and trying to be on O: tough, intense and relentless.

I disagree. Goff is the more pro ready passer. And I don't think that intensity from Wentz is an advantage. It resulted in him breaking his wrist and missing much of the 2015 season.

Goff is "intense"...but in a way that works in the NFL and will protect him.

But, as I said, both are quality guys. If they go with Goff, I'll just be left wondering how they will "fit" Goff in because they have yet to do that with any other QB. Wentz already fits.

Like you, I don't have much faith that this crew can mold a QB to fit what they want to do which is why they really need to go with the one who already fits.

Goff's style of play isn't any different than Bradford's. I think it's a very easy fit here. He's a traditional pocket passer with solid mobility. He's a pretty easy guy to fit into almost any NFL scheme.

Regardless, if they pick Wentz, I'll be happy. If they pick Goff, I'll be elated. It's a decision they can't mess up unless they don't pick either.

 

[Mackeyser]

Well said. We just have an ideological difference that I dunno that we'll resolve.

I see Goff as a West Coast QB. Brees excels in Asshole Face's "Gulf Coast Offense", a WCO derivative. I could totally see Goff excelling in that type of system, a system that is committed to the principles of horizontally stretching the defense and requiring the QB to make short and intermediate throws with timing and accuracy. Seems the PERFECT thing for Goff.

Heck, if we had fired Fisher and hired Asshole Face and then did this and Payton and Les Snead were looking at QBs... I'd be ALL OVER Goff. No question.

However, we're moving away from the WCO which hasn't served us and does NOT work well in the NFC West and moving toward... well, I dunno what the hell it is to be honest. It's...porridge, I guess. I think calling it a "system" is being polite, to be honest. But, we do know that it has heavy elements of play-action (I disagree that Goff sells the play action all that well), zone reads (are we allowed to have YAC?), misdirection plays like reverses and I know Fisher would like to incorporate Read-Option concepts, just to free up Gurley a bit more, cuz all he needs is one guy to miss and he's off to the races. Lastly, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ARE WE TO THROW SUCCESSFUL SCREEN PASSES!!! I dunno why that's a part of the concept, but apparently failing at screen passes is critical to the success of this offensive philosophy...or something...

Anyway, it's late and I'm being a bit silly, but based on the trajectory of where this offense seems headed, seems like Wentz is the better fit.

I agree that Goff isn't all that dissimilar to Bradford, but I dunno that he'd be a fit here, either, even with two good knees. That said, Bradford's deep ball is significantly better than Goff's. Sam's deep ball is still a thing of beauty.

 

[CGI_Ram]

If you want to see what Goff does best; accuracy, anticipation, footwork, and quick decisions... This is a very good highlight video.

Goff looks so natural. My only concern is the hand size (same size as Bridgewater, though) and arm strength. This video illustrates some of his limitation with the deep ball. But... His arm is strong enough. Just pointing out a weakness among those insane strengths.

 

[nighttrain]

I think the Goff and Drew Brees comparisons are pretty good. I really like Goff.

But, I think we go Wentz.

afraid you are correct, and Fisher will be history(that's the good part)

 

[ReddingRam]

Another thing on Goff ... .he has been a known "QB prodigy" going way back to his H.S. days at Marin Catholic. He was one of the QB's with Trent Dilfer in his seires "the Elite 11" ....same yr that Jameis Winston was ... .and he pushed JW hard for the overall title in that. Again ... it might seem that I am wishy-washy on this topic of the QB's .. .and I am a bit. That is because I would be happy with either. I just think Wentz is more the JF type of QB.

 

[12intheBox]

The GRob Mathews thing .....

That book isn't fully written yet. And let's not pretend Mathews has been clean and polished since snap 1 in his NFL career - he has struggled as well.

Give me a do over on that pick - I think I'm going G Rob all over again.

Now to Wentz - Goff (we need a name for this debate, btw) - either way we are going to get a rookie QB. As rookies, both have a curve to overcome.

I like what I see from both - but my money is on the straight A workaholic who is bigger, faster, stronger, and comes from a pro offense where he made all the calls.

 

[ReddingRam]

The GRob Mathews thing .....

That book isn't fully written yet. And let's not pretend Mathews has been clean and polished since snap 1 in his NFL career - he has struggled as well.

Give me a do over on that pick - I think I'm going G Rob all over again.

Now to Wentz - Goff (we need a name for this debate, btw) - either way we are going to get a rookie QB. As rookies, both have a curve to overcome.

I like what I see from both - but my money is on the straight A workaholic who is bigger, faster, stronger, and comes from a pro offense where he made all the calls.

"Wentz way do we Goff" ???

 

[12intheBox]

"Wentz way do we Goff" ???

It needs to be short.

Woffgate? Gentzlemania?

 

[ReddingRam]

It needs to be short.

Woffgate? Gentzlemania?

#CarsonGoff

 

[Ram65]

#CarsonGoff

#CarGo or

#GoCar

++++Depending on who you like more.

 

[PA Ram]

Goff looks so natural. My only concern is the hand size (same size as Bridgewater, though) and arm strength. This video illustrates some of his limitation with the deep ball. But... His arm is strong enough. Just pointing out a weakness among those insane strengths.

 

[DR RAM]

OK, he's a baller, with pocket awareness who apparently gets the crap beat out of him because he can't escape. Case in point for comparison:

Goff, 3 years rushing attempts (170), ..........yards gained (-114)....apparently, Goff can't even fall forward for a yard.

Wentz, 2 years rushing attempts (201), ........yards gained (+936)....

Wentz is 2 inches taller, obviously quicker and heavier. Admittedly Goff has an edge with experience, but Wentz is perceived to have more upside. Personally, I don't agree that either of them is worth the cost. Beyond that, why not take the bigger potential upside? Let him sit a year and see what happens. They have the perfect excuse (again) for mediocre performance, why not take advantage of it? They're going to wear this team out this season anyways, traveling all over the damn place including Europe, shuttling from coast to coast for road games, so what's the rush? I get the horrible feeling again that they're going serve up a rookie and feed him to the wolves behind a questionable OL that still has a lot of coming together to do. :baghead:

I'd prefer Wentz too, but that doesn't discount what I've seen from Goff. :mustache:

Anyways, your stat doesn't tell the story on Goff, he was dodging bullets, and uses his feet to get open, and throw, he gets hit a lot after he throws, because he bought time.

My main reason for Wentz, is so that he can move the chains with his feet. Goff is a pure pocket passer.

 

[ramsince62]

I'd prefer Wentz too, but that doesn't discount what I've seen from Goff. :mustache:

Anyways, your stat doesn't tell the story on Goff, he was dodging bullets, and uses his feet to get open, and throw, he gets hit a lot after he throws, because he bought time.

My main reason for Wentz, is so that he can move the chains with his feet. Goff is a pure pocket passer.

>>My main reason for Wentz, is so that he can move the chains with his feet. Goff is a pure pocket passer.<<

Exactly, plus he's got a little more meat on his bones to withstand the hits surely to come. He also throws with more velosity, not to mention his intelligence and bigger hand size. They make excuses for Goff's problems with a wet ball in 2014....I continue to think it will be a problem in the future (fumbles & errant wet ball throws). Ultimately, I believe there's more upside with Wentz and the Rams have the time to develop him. Personally, I hate the idea of putting rookie QB's out there, especially with an inexperienced OL still trying to come together.

I'm obviously no expert, starting QB's are a crap shoot, especially these days. But if the front office makes a short term decision simply to promote sales and public interest, I'll be sorely disappointed. We've waited a a damn long time for a franchise QB, I see no reason why another rookie should be sent out before he's ready AND can be protected.

 

[ramsince62]

Maybe, but depending on Saffold (yikes, did I really say that) I think this O line is ready to break out right now

Maybe so, but the results haven't yet validated either that contention or expectation.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Maybe so, but the results haven't yet validated either that contention or expectation.

True, but the foundation has been built, the puzzle is slowly coming together