Somebody sell me on Goff

[LesBaker]

I watched a bunch of highlight vids and I lean towards Goff. @jrry32 summed it up nicely just a few posts above and after seeing him I think he's gong to be the better prospect.

His deep passes are pretty damn nice!

@Prime Time I agree with you, IMO the choice is pretty clear, Goff looks better on the field to me than Wentz by a big enough margin that I hope he is the pick.

 

[Mackeyser]

GRob is poised to have a breakout year. Watch. He had such immense physical talent that it was hard to convey just how raw he was. He wasn't just raw steak, he was still on the cow... That said, this year...this year... he's gonna be sizzlin' Watch...

That said, my only point was to point out patterns. I notice them and it's what I was trained to do as an engineer. Those patterns are NOT etched in stone. I gave the example of Aaron Donald as an example of this. Had I ignored him, that omission would/could have been an example of homerism. But the fact is that Fisher as one of the longest tenured Head Coaches in the league has some deeply entrenched personnel acquisition patterns. Are they at all positions? No. For example, he's gone with bigger thumpers at LB and now we have a hybrid LB/S technically at WIL. He's actually been pretty flexible at the linebacker position. Other positions, he tends pretty strongly to look for specific traits, often physical.

Is it GRob/Matthews all over again? Maybe. I don't think that Wentz is raw in the way that GRob was so I don't think that the analogy relates in the same way.

Actually, I think many have gotten most of the pro analogies not quite right, imho.

I see Wentz as a more athletic Big Ben type. Big arm, smart, knows the offense in and out, and will make a team pay for overpursuit of the run game. Hints....hints of Cam.

I see Goff as a taller Drew Brees. Gunslinger. Shifty in the pocket. Great footwork. Smooth release.

Now, for this team, which would be the better QB in their prime? Big Ben or Drew Brees? I'd say Big Ben. I think Fisher would say Big Ben. The stats and many, many ROD members I'm sure would disagree and want the 5k yards year after year and say Brees.

Let's be clear, both have floors and ceilings and both of their floors include abject failure and both of their ceilings include tremendous success and glory for themselves and their teams.

Whichever the Rams get, I hope they end up very close to their ceiling for a very, very long time.

 

[Loyal]

damn, I love beer......(did I say that out loud?)

 

[CanRamFan]

I see Wentz as a more athletic Big Ben type. Big arm, smart, knows the offense in and out, and will make a team pay for overpursuit of the run game. Hints....hints of Cam.

I see Goff as a taller Drew Brees. Gunslinger. Shifty in the pocket. Great footwork. Smooth release.

If this is the case then I will gladly take either one of these guys. Win win situation.

 

[RamsJunkie]

I'm with a lot of people on here. I was a Wentz guy at first but the more tape I watch and the more I read from our draft gurus like @jrry32 I'm really starting to get a man crush on Goff. I just hope he can bulk up a little and can hold up to the pounding NFL QBs take. Thats my only worry now. At least for a day or two i'm off the Wentz bandwagon and jumping on the Goff train!

 

[LosAngelesRams]

Just got done reading through everything everybody said, I dont even need to say anything y'all covered it all. Kids amazing, I just don't see it in Wentz. I dont get the worries over Goff getting hit, kid took a beating, got up and still threw dimes. He turned Cal around in the Pac with some real competition.

This seriously reminds me of the Matthews - Grob scenario, to this day, Matthews looked great last year, Grob was still one of the worst Ts in the league. I know hes a physical beast but we haven't seen him kill it yet.

 

[FarNorth]

Goff had a bad line and he got hit a bunch and was never injured. Goff can also add weight. The coaches at Cal didnt really ask him to hit the weights or gain weight during his time at Cal.
Wentz had a good line in the FCS and wasn't sacked much but still got injured and had to have surgery and miss half the season.

I am not convinced there is a proven correlation between a guy being 6/6" 235 versus a guy 6'4 215 in terms of likelihood of injury. Sure it looks right, but is it really true? However, I am convinced that there is a direct correlation between excellent footwork, quick release, and accuracy and success as an NFL passer.

 

[LACHAMP46]

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/cal-fans-take-on-goff.44095/

I dont get the worries over Goff getting hit, kid took a beating, got up and still threw dimes.

this is the pros man....you can't keep getting hit, and keep getting up...

I am not convinced there is a proven correlation between a guy being 6/6" 235 versus a guy 6'4 215 in terms of likelihood of injury. Sure it looks right, but is it really true?

Simple physics....mass X somethin
seriously...you have to see the risks....Bradford wasn't good enough, look at RGIII....Not convinced, check out Marcus Marriota....Hell, Big Ben was hit on his motorcycle, and didn't have a helmet on, I think....Looked like he hit the windshield...and played in 2 weeks....You need a lil size, and luck to stay healthy with these monsters chasing you...
Would this keep me from drafting Goff? No, but if Wentz & Goff are close, I'm taking the bigger player. Simple physics....

 

[yrba1]

To me, Goff reminds me of a weaker armed Bradford I'm not sure thats a great thing. I think Goff will be a good QB but I think Wentz will be a great QB.

Except that Goff had a paper thin oline in Cal while Bradford had the Great Wall of China in Oklahoma. That should tell you about their pocket presence, which Goff has the superior one

 

[OnceARam]

Not exactly....we'll only require him to manage games in 2016...Goff will only manage games for us in 2016.....I see a more durable player, probably a smarter player that has more pro-style experience as far as calls & audibles. Goff is a gunslinger....and while he's had more success, I see the arm strength thing as pushing Wentz past him in terms of talent. The tighter windows in the NFL are not as forgiving as college.

I see the validity in what you're saying. But is Goff s arm really weaker or is that just a perception based on how good his touch was in college?

Let's face it, he couldn't have thrown a more beautiful deep ball. There was no reason for a Lazer on those throws.

 

[Tron]

Not exactly....we'll only require him to manage games in 2016...Goff will only manage games for us in 2016.....I see a more durable player, probably a smarter player that has more pro-style experience as far as calls & audibles.

“People think because we’re in this Air Raid family that there’s one or two progressions for the quarterback, which is really an insult because it’s nowhere near the truth,” Franklin says. “We give the quarterback an incredible amount of responsibility and (Goff) got more than any quarterback since I’ve been coaching.

“He probably had more on his shoulders before the snap than any quarterback in the NFL.”

 

[nighttrain]

Wentz has Goff beat on running. Can't argue that. But two points to consider:

1 Will Wentz be able to run on the NFL defenses like he did in the Missouri Valley conference, from which no NFL players come. His team was superior in every way to the competition he played. Not to hard to run for 4.8 ypc in that scenario.

2 Do you want a pocket passer or running QB? This is not 275 Cam Newton or 4.4 Michael Vick. This is 4.77 Wentz running vs NFL players that hit at the highest level and run 4.4's.

To quote Kenny Stabler, "there are a lot of good young running QB's, but i have never seen an older one"
train

 

[nighttrain]

GRob is poised to have a breakout year. Watch. He had such immense physical talent that it was hard to convey just how raw he was. He wasn't just raw steak, he was still on the cow... That said, this year...this year... he's gonna be sizzlin' Watch...

That said, my only point was to point out patterns. I notice them and it's what I was trained to do as an engineer. Those patterns are NOT etched in stone. I gave the example of Aaron Donald as an example of this. Had I ignored him, that omission would/could have been an example of homerism. But the fact is that Fisher as one of the longest tenured Head Coaches in the league has some deeply entrenched personnel acquisition patterns. Are they at all positions? No. For example, he's gone with bigger thumpers at LB and now we have a hybrid LB/S technically at WIL. He's actually been pretty flexible at the linebacker position. Other positions, he tends pretty strongly to look for specific traits, often physical.

Is it GRob/Matthews all over again? Maybe. I don't think that Wentz is raw in the way that GRob was so I don't think that the analogy relates in the same way.

Actually, I think many have gotten most of the pro analogies not quite right, imho.

I see Wentz as a more athletic Big Ben type. Big arm, smart, knows the offense in and out, and will make a team pay for overpursuit of the run game. Hints....hints of Cam.

I see Goff as a taller Drew Brees. Gunslinger. Shifty in the pocket. Great footwork. Smooth release.

Now, for this team, which would be the better QB in their prime? Big Ben or Drew Brees? I'd say Big Ben. I think Fisher would say Big Ben. The stats and many, many ROD members I'm sure would disagree and want the 5k yards year after year and say Brees.

Let's be clear, both have floors and ceilings and both of their floors include abject failure and both of their ceilings include tremendous success and glory for themselves and their teams.

Whichever the Rams get, I hope they end up very close to their ceiling for a very, very long time.

say good bye to Fish
train

 

[Mackeyser]

“People think because we’re in this Air Raid family that there’s one or two progressions for the quarterback, which is really an insult because it’s nowhere near the truth,” Franklin says. “We give the quarterback an incredible amount of responsibility and (Goff) got more than any quarterback since I’ve been coaching.

“He probably had more on his shoulders before the snap than any quarterback in the NFL.”

That's BS and he knows it. That statement STINKS of hyperbole. More on his shoulders pre-snap than ANY QB in the NFL?

Really?

Really?

Complete BS.

Make the case that he had WAY more responsibility than any QB who's been in an Air Raid derived spread offense or even any Spread offense. Sure. We can go to the tape and I might buy that.

But he absolutely didn't do more than Wentz had to at NDSU and there's NO WAY he had more responsibilities than any NFL QB. Hell, Wentz not only had more pre-snap responsibilities than Goff, but he'd also worked out special hand signals that pre-empted any playcall which allowed Wentz to essentially "audible" individual routes to a particular receiver. PLUS, Wentz had the ability to change the OL calls when he audibled.

Now, if someone's going to tell me that Goff had more responsibility than that in that Bear Raid offense, well, they'd be outright lying.

And that's not even touching on the pro level where it's not even up for debate that NO spread offense even from a coaching level touches on the complexity of pro offenses. Period. By design.

Goff has so much going for him that there's absolutely no reason to say crap about him which is ridiculous hyperbole. It doesn't serve him.

 

[Tron]

That's BS and he knows it. That statement STINKS of hyperbole. More on his shoulders pre-snap than ANY QB in the NFL?

Really?

Really?

Complete BS.

Make the case that he had WAY more responsibility than any QB who's been in an Air Raid derived spread offense or even any Spread offense. Sure. We can go to the tape and I might buy that.

But he absolutely didn't do more than Wentz had to at NDSU and there's NO WAY he had more responsibilities than any NFL QB. Hell, Wentz not only had more pre-snap responsibilities than Goff, but he'd also worked out special hand signals that pre-empted any playcall which allowed Wentz to essentially "audible" individual routes to a particular receiver. PLUS, Wentz had the ability to change the OL calls when he audibled.

Now, if someone's going to tell me that Goff had more responsibility than that in that Bear Raid offense, well, they'd be outright lying.

And that's not even touching on the pro level where it's not even up for debate that NO spread offense even from a coaching level touches on the complexity of pro offenses. Period. By design.

Goff has so much going for him that there's absolutely no reason to say crap about him which is ridiculous hyperbole. It doesn't serve him.

So you know the coaches of both teams and know the responsibilities that they had personally with 100% accuracy? Not saying you are wrong on this, but from what you say you are acting like you know personally. I was just quoting his coach.

 

[Mackeyser]

So you know the coaches of both teams and know the responsibilities that they had personally with 100% accuracy? Not saying you are wrong on this, but from what you say you are acting like you know personally. I was just quoting his coach.

Of course not.

However, the Bear Raid offense isn't a mystery. It's a spread. It's been taught and dissected. The responsibilities are known. So, short of Goff having play calling responsibility, he's not close. Even then, the whole POINT of a spread is to create personnel mismatches and rely on simplification, execution, misdirection and mismatches. It's why spread WRs struggle and spread OL struggle in transitioning to the NFL more so on average than those who've played on a pro style system.

His coach knows very damn well that NO spread QB has ever had more responsibility than a starting NFL QB. Even the simplified Earhardt Perkins system Tebow was running in Denver for McDaniel required more from Tebow than the Bear Raid required from Goff.

My point is that hyperbole like that is counterproductive. Goff has tremendous talent...AND...will likely need a year to sit in no small part because of his spread roots.

 

[DR RAM]

I just want to say, this whole thing is polarizing, IMO, because both QB's are good. We have our choice.

 

[Tron]

Of course not.

However, the Bear Raid offense isn't a mystery. It's a spread. It's been taught and dissected. The responsibilities are known. So, short of Goff having play calling responsibility, he's not close. Even then, the whole POINT of a spread is to create personnel mismatches and rely on simplification, execution, misdirection and mismatches. It's why spread WRs struggle and spread OL struggle in transitioning to the NFL more so on average than those who've played on a pro style system.

His coach knows very damn well that NO spread QB has ever had more responsibility than a starting NFL QB. Even the simplified Earhardt Perkins system Tebow was running in Denver for McDaniel required more from Tebow than the Bear Raid required from Goff.

My point is that hyperbole like that is counterproductive. Goff has tremendous talent...AND...will likely need a year to sit in no small part because of his spread roots.

Maybe, but maybe he could start, like Mariotta did. Its not about the system, its about what is between the ears. Just IMO. In no way am i discounting Wentz in any of this, just supporting Goff cause I am hella biased lol. These two weks need to go by fast so we can all back the same person. This is gonna be a painful two weeks for sure.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I think the Goff and Drew Brees comparisons are pretty good. I really like Goff.

But, I think we go Wentz.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

I banged the drum for Matthews too over Grob but we took a shot at Grob who shot up the draft charts last second while Mathews dropped.

At this point, Matthews is clearly ahead GRob, not sure this is even debatable, you know there is still a chance GRob will never reach his potential

Here's the thing with me;

1) I have seen plenty of Goff, to me I would compare him to another QB I've seen a lot of...Philip Rivers

2) I have never seen Wentz play, sorry, but cherry picked highlight film just doesn't cut it with me, hey if the Rams actually select Wentz, well I'll dams sure wince, then get over it and board the Wentz Wagon

One thing is for sure, the Ram know their man, and got him!!

To take Wentz from my perspective would be pretty damn Ballzy