(So sad): All indications' Rams will pass on Watkins

[jjab360]

I like to pretend that Cook/Britt/Givens/Quick don't exist full stop.

Underestimate our receivers if you want, but each of those guys is still young and plenty talented.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Underestimate our receivers if you want, but each of those guys is still young and plenty talented.

I'd say I've estimated them around about what they've shown me they should be estimated, I'd love to estimate them on this magical potential that none of them have shown.

There's not a single one of the 4 who I wouldn't trade for a 4th round pick in this draft.

 

[SteveBrown]

I actually agree, but it's just a feeling. No...it's More than a Feeling.

Boston rocks! "More than a feeling..."

 

[iced]

That's combining two attributes though. And I don't agree that it's elite.

My dog used to get out all the time. He was an escape artist. Built a series of tunnels under the fences in the backyards of our neighborhood until he reached the house with no fence. Every time we filled a hole, he created a new one.

Eventually, we just gave up and started letting him out the front door. He'd roam around for 15 or so minutes then come home and wait by the door to be let in.

You lost me on this dog analogy thing. Which is fine - we're going to have to agree to disagree. having physical attributes and knowing how to put them together are two different things. I don't think Watkins has elite speed or power - i think the combination - his speed, size, and frame, combined with his YAC ability, makes him elite.

Percy harvin isn't elite based off one individual attribute - its the combination of all them together that made him elite.

 

[jrry32]

You lost me on this dog analogy thing. Which is fine - we're going to have to agree to disagree. having physical attributes and knowing how to put them together are two different things. I don't think Watkins has elite speed or power - i think the combination - his speed, size, and frame, combined with his YAC ability, makes him elite.

Percy harvin isn't elite based off one individual attribute - its the combination of all them together that made him elite.

I wasn't making a dog analogy. You mentioned your dog kept getting out.

 

[iced]

I wasn't making a dog analogy. You mentioned your dog kept getting out.

-smacks self in the forehead- I read your post last night, thought it was an analogy but waited to reread it this morning... same interpretation lol

no idea why he keeps breaking out - i let him out front off leash with me all the time. Even take him out places (beach, the bar, etc.)

Although after he heard a rumor about the Rams taking Robinson, I had to cut him off

 

[RFIP]

It's funny how people feel the need to act like Tavon/Bailey/Cook/Britt/Pettis/Givens/Quick don't even exist when they're talking up Watkins..

9 years of sub 700 yards, sub 7 TD we play has a tendency to do that to ya....but keep acting like we have great receivers and, as my dad used to say; "piss in one hand, wish in the other and see which one fills up first..."

 

[brokeu91]

I will admit that I'm not in favor of drafting Watkins, since I think we need O line help first and foremost...we are a run first team after all.

However, I can see the appeal of drafting Watkins because it really makes two positions better. If Watkins becomes the #1 WR he will command safety help over the top, which will allow Tavon Austin more room, and I think we all saw what happens if you give Watkins the ball in the middle of the field with a little bit of room. Of course, that's predicated on Watkins commanding double coverage.

Like I said, I can understand the appeal, but for the way our offense works, I think we'd have more of an impact getting O-line help

 

[iced]

It's funny how people feel the need to act like Tavon/Bailey/Cook/Britt/Pettis/Givens/Quick don't even exist

outside Tavon, I don't think defensive Coordinators noticed they existed, either.

Especially when your leading receiver in snaps can't even get in the end zone. Donnie Avery as a #3 WR outproduced Chris Givens, despite less opportunities

The Clemens excuse doesn't work for me either - plenty of other receivers played with back up qb's and still reached the end zone.
Niners passed the ball the least in the NFL - 244 attempts, we had 301.

Anquan Boldin - 1,179 yards, 7 td's.
Vernon Davis - 850 yards, 13 td's

It really comes down to talent. Other teams in this division have it at WR; we don't. Haven't had a receiver eclipse 800 yards since '08.

"We need to run the ball in our division" - Yep, and when they load the Box (like they've done since Holt left and Sjax became the focus), they can shut down the run - there's no threat out wide - especially with the corners in this division.

As long as teams can man up on our receivers all day long, this team isn't going to be making any noise in this division - least imo.

 

[Rams and Gators]

The Clemens excuse doesn't work for me either

I agree with that. If the receivers were producing with Sam as QB, then that production dropped off a cliff as a result of him going down but they weren't, the only player who can use it as an excuse in my book is Bailey, who never had the benefit of playing with Sam.

 

[Slappy967]

I want to mention that Watkins looked as good as he did in college with an abysmal QB throwing him the rock. I won't get involved in the rest of the back and forth but wanted to take time out to say Taj Boyd both sucks AND blows. Carry on.

 

[-X-]

The Clemens excuse doesn't work for me either - plenty of other receivers played with back up qb's and still reached the end zone.
Niners passed the ball the least in the NFL - 244 attempts, we had 301.

Anquan Boldin - 1,179 yards, 7 td's.
Vernon Davis - 850 yards, 13 td's

Huh? The 49ers (Kaepernick) attempted 416 passes last year. You mean completions, which isn't really the way to determine who's throwing more. But that aside, the Seahawks didn't have a single receiver reach 900 yards, and they won the Super Bowl. When Fisher/Snead say that their philosophy is going to be running the ball and fielding a dominant defense, I don't see how Watkins fits into that plan. The model for winning keeps materializing year after year, but somehow people think receivers like Megatron are the key ingredient. Look at the top 3 receivers last year in terms of receptions. All 3 from teams that didn't even make the postseason. The top 3 in terms of yardage? None in the postseason either.

And the Clemens excuse *should* work for you, because there was a significant drop-off in production when Bradford went down. Bradford had 14 TDs in 7 games with only 4 ints. Clemens, in the remaining 9 games had only 8 TDs and 7 ints while the Rams lost 75 yards per game through the air.

 

[iced]

Huh? The 49ers (Kaepernick) attempted 416 passes last year. You mean completions, which isn't really the way to determine who's throwing more.

yea I looked at 244 and misread it.But as far as attempts go, they were the least. Atttempts per game = 26.2 (32nd)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...=ALL&d-447263-s=PASSING_ATTEMPTS_PER_GAME_AVG

But that aside, the Seahawks didn't have a single receiver reach 900 yards, and they won the Super Bowl.

They had Two receivers with over 800 + Percy Harvin played in the super bowl.

Rams don't even have one over 700.

Seahawks also have the worst rated pass blocking offensive line - they just have a run game and a defense.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/

When Fisher/Snead say that their philosophy is going to be running the ball and fielding a dominant defense, I don't see how Watkins fits into that plan. The model for winning keeps materializing year after year, but somehow people think receivers like Megatron are the key ingredient. Look at the top 3 receivers last year in terms of receptions. All 3 from teams that didn't even make the postseason. The top 3 in terms of yardage? None in the postseason either.

They may run a power o scheme but they will stay be throwing more than running with bradford. And I don't think Megatron is the key ingredient - I think having starting caliber receivers is a key ingredient. And That's before taking into account that the two best corners in the NFL, Patrick Peterson and Richard Sherman (don't forget Antonio Cromartie on the other side of Peterson) are going to be defending our receivers who already produced at the lowest levels.

And the Clemens excuse *should* work for you, because there was a significant drop-off in production when Bradford went down. Bradford had 14 TDs in 7 games with only 4 ints. Clemens, in the remaining 9 games had only 8 TDs and 7 ints while the Rams lost 75 yards per game through the air.

It doesn't work for me - there are plenty of other receivers who managed to reach the end zone. Hakeem Nicks and Chris Givens were the only starting receivers in the NFL last year to be held out of the end zone.

Greg Little managed a few td's despite a trio of QB's - Alshon Jeffrey played well with Luke Mccown, Justin Blackmon still got into the end zone and produced regardless of Chad henne/Blaine Gabbert. (415 yards, 1 td, in 4 games).

 

[PhillyRam]

Just curious if we knew now that Watkins was the next Torry Holt and Robinson was the next Orlando Pace, minus the holdouts, who would you take?

And again lets take away Pace's holdout issues since that probably effects how we view him personally.

My view is without Pace and even Timmerman, 99' does not happen. Pace was dominant then. Allowing empty backfields and 5 wr sets, the Rams could alwsys run it in when they got the ball inside the 10 yard line, 1st and goal. something they still struggle with.

 

[Prime Time]

Boston rocks! "More than a feeling..."

Love your avatar!

 

[rhinobean]

We'll know on Thursday if Boudreau thinks he's the pick! Assuming he's there when the Rams pick!

 

[-X-]

Seahawks also have the worst rated pass blocking offensive line - they just have a run game and a defense.

Ehhhhhhhhggzactly.

It doesn't work for me - there are plenty of other receivers who managed to reach the end zone. Greg Little managed a few td's despite a trio of QB's - Alshon Jeffrey played well with Luke Mccown, Justin Blackmon still got into the end zone and produced regardless of Chad henne/Blaine Gabbert. (415 yards, 1 td, in 4 games).

Right. So what can we deduce from that? That our receivers are good when Bradford plays, but not when Clemens plays? Or is it like I said ... that the production dropped off A LOT when Bradford went down; and with it, the passing game. Just because other receivers had (a little) production with backups, doesn't equate to the quality of the offense as a whole, nor can it be unilaterally applied to the quality of our receivers. Scheme, quality of opponents, and opportunities play a small role in that. Think Blackmon would have had that production against SF twice and SEA twice?

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince you that my POV is the correct one. Only that, in my opinion, one receiver isn't going to make this offense. It's a collaborative effort that includes Austin, Pettis, Givens, Bailey, Britt, Cook and Kendricks. Watkins, as phenomenal as he may be in college, is still going to require a breaking-in period. If he even makes that much of a difference at all. There are no guarantees of that. You'd be surprised how little wide receivers factor into the success of a team as a whole. One could even argue that Calvin Johnson has a negligible impact on the Lions' success overall.

 

[Zaphod]

That's not a single physical attribute.



They also have no reason to use a smokescreen. The Texans aren't picking Watkins. They're no threat to take him. If the Rams want him, he's theirs.

Actually, I just thought of this. If they wanted to pick him after trading down it could be.

But to me the whole smokescreen idea is like a conspiracy theory. Ok, maybe but just not likely.

 

[iced]

Ehhhhhhhhggzactly.


Right. So what can we deduce from that? That our receivers are good when Bradford plays, but not when Clemens plays? Or is it like I said ... that the production dropped off A LOT when Bradford went down; and with it, the passing game. Just because other receivers had (a little) production with backups, doesn't equate to the quality of the offense as a whole, nor can it be unilaterally applied to the quality of our receivers. Scheme, quality of opponents, and opportunities play a small role in that. Think Blackmon would have had that production against SF twice and SEA twice?

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince you that my POV is the correct one. Only that, in my opinion, one receiver isn't going to make this offense. It's a collaborative effort that includes Austin, Pettis, Givens, Bailey, Britt, Cook and Kendricks. Watkins, as phenomenal as he may be in college, is still going to require a breaking-in period. If he even makes that much of a difference at all. There are no guarantees of that. You'd be surprised how little wide receivers factor into the success of a team as a whole. One could even argue that Calvin Johnson has a negligible impact on the Lions' success overall.

The problems with the Lions is their defense, not the offense.

I see us as a one dimensional offense right now - and we need playmakers on the outside. Can't be one dimensional against these teams in the division - not with their front 7's. they're all stout against the run.