Snaps vs NYJ

[Merlin]

Gotta weigh in. Atwell is merely “a” weapon. He is by no means “the” weapon in the Rams pass game. I’ve looked it up before but need to refresh. His catch to targets ratio was comparable to Kupp/Robinson last I checked. Doubt he competes with Nacuas on that but few do. I see him as a stretch the field, finds space, good hands receiver. He cannot, however, high point or contest catches. I’d personally like to see him used a bit more but that’s just my opinion. Glad we have him.

Fair take. My main issue with him is this cultish insistence that he's some diamond in the rough poised to explode. Or even worse crowning the dude with terms like clutch. He is obviously not that.

One thing in his favor is that protections were shit when he should have been stepping up. But overall the issue with most small receiving weapons is the QB finding them, and then also the small catch radius. And in Tutu's case if the DB is anywhere in his personal space the chances of a catch are quite slim. So those two elements work against him being a guy the QB seeks on key downs, and as a result the chains don't move as consistently when he's the guy they're depending on.

Which is why I call him an accessory piece. Because you can't even use the dude on a jet sweep because he is not instinctive as a runner. I'm still irked by that jet sweep he ran right into the defender when there was space for him use. And he's got some of the same issues Jefferson had, which many fans conveniently overlooked, which is a lack of compete for the ball in the air.

Mark my words he will move on and continue to be the weapon that is so criminally unused in the eyes of the next fan base. And hopefully the Rams will add a third wideout or at the least a stud TE to put this offense back on the map in the pass game.

 

[ArkyRamsFan]

Mark my words he will move on and continue to be the weapon that is so criminally unused in the eyes of the next fan base. And hopefully the Rams will add a third wideout or at the least a stud TE to put this offense back on the map in the pass game.

Yep, I agree that he will move on. And I'm predicting it right now that he ends up in KC with 'ol Andy Reid drawing up some stuff for he and Mahomes.

Atwell may never be a full time all situations type of NFL receiver but that's never stopped Coach Reid from using players like that to their strengths and abilities.

Look for Tutu to end up on some ESPN highlight film next year.....

~ArkyRamsFan~

 

[Ellard80]

First part of the year we also weren't playing good run defense at all. Now our edges are much better at containing and that's improved. Next step is getting our young edges to be able to do both. Just because the pass rush has lessened doesn't mean they won't get it back.

perhaps but we should give the secondary some credit over the past week as well.

They have been covering for longer and doing well outside the buffalo game.

Secondary might be the most improved unit since the beginning of the year.

We are giving up around 82 Qb rating the last 4 games.

 

[OldSchool]

perhaps but we should give the secondary some credit over the past week as well.

They have been covering for longer and doing well outside the buffalo game.

Secondary might be the most improved unit since the beginning of the year.

We are giving up around 82 Qb rating the last 4 games.

The entire defense continues to grow. As the season progresses. I haven't even picked on 4 or 97 lately granted I did watch this week while traveling.

 

[shovelpass]

We have a DE that has been inactive all season that I’m wondering about? Dude looked pretty f’n good in college.

Brennan Jackson.

Probably a developmental year for him. He's played less than 20 snaps on the year, and this past game with Mathis out Jackson played only on STs.


They need a 4th to spell Verse/Young.

 

[InfiniteRam]

Fair take. My main issue with him is this cultish insistence that he's some diamond in the rough poised to explode. Or even worse crowning the dude with terms like clutch. He is obviously not that.

One thing in his favor is that protections were shit when he should have been stepping up. But overall the issue with most small receiving weapons is the QB finding them, and then also the small catch radius. And in Tutu's case if the DB is anywhere in his personal space the chances of a catch are quite slim. So those two elements work against him being a guy the QB seeks on key downs, and as a result the chains don't move as consistently when he's the guy they're depending on.

Which is why I call him an accessory piece. Because you can't even use the dude on a jet sweep because he is not instinctive as a runner. I'm still irked by that jet sweep he ran right into the defender when there was space for him use. And he's got some of the same issues Jefferson had, which many fans conveniently overlooked, which is a lack of compete for the ball in the air.

Mark my words he will move on and continue to be the weapon that is so criminally unused in the eyes of the next fan base. And hopefully the Rams will add a third wideout or at the least a stud TE to put this offense back on the map in the pass game.

Please point out a instance where Tutu didn't compete for a ball. Jefferson was just soft, period. Are you referring to the pass that Stafford underthrew him on, by about 10 yards, where he had to stop and turn around to try to catch it? No receiver in the NFL with that speed is able to adjust to the ball and catch it when a DB is bearing down full speed in catch up. Momentum doesn't work that way.

Good things happen more often than not when the ball is thrown in Atwell's direction.

 

[Merlin]

Please point out a instance where Tutu didn't compete for a ball.

So many instances. But your inability to see it does not mean that I owe you some proof. He routinely waits the ball in just like Jefferson did. It was why the Rams whiffed on Jefferson with that round 2 pick. And it will be why the Rams whiffed on Tutu with that round 2 pick.

But anyway. Conversation is that he's not fucking clutch. I don't hate the dude. I just get tired of the cultish excuses this dude is given. Much of his lack of involvement in our offense is his fault. He is not some fucking victim.

 

[InfiniteRam]

So many instances. But your inability to see it does not mean that I owe you some proof. He routinely waits the ball in just like Jefferson did. It was why the Rams whiffed on Jefferson with that round 2 pick. And it will be why the Rams whiffed on Tutu with that round 2 pick.

But anyway. Conversation is that he's not fucking clutch. I don't hate the dude. I just get tired of the cultish excuses this dude is given. Much of his lack of involvement in our offense is his fault. He is not some fucking victim.

Seen every play of every game this year. Cannot remember a single instance where Tutu stopped short or didn't give his best effort to compete for a ball. He's 5'9". He has a 64.7% success rate on passes thrown his way. For reference, Nacua is at 63.0%.

He's underutilized, period.

 

[PhillyRam]

I get the take since he does look like the Clowney type. And you very well may be right. I changed my mind because I see data points that indicate he will be a big sack guy.

In Clowney's 11 years, he's had one season that surpassed Verse's 68 total pressures to date (6 sacks, 14 QB hits, 48 hurries). His 14 QB hits matches Clowney's career high. Verse, as a still developing rookie, is already superior to Clowney in the very basic pass rush stats.

When you take a deeper dive into more advanced metrics, they aren't close. In PFFs and ESPN's pass rush metrics, Verse is in the top 10. Before he hit the wall, he was in the top 5 across all metrics. Clowney is usually in the 20s or 30s with his best years topping out at around 13th.

More than any other data point I've seen, the below chart from early November, shows that Verse is very capable of getting the quick win. Note that he ranks top 5 in quick disruption pressure rate.

View attachment 68888

I think he is or will be better than Clowney, I just made the comparison because they are similar in terms of high pressure rates, but fewer sacks than you would expect based on those pressure rates.