Snaps vs NYJ

[ArkyRamsFan]

Verse is really a classic 4-3 end. He's got that rangy build with power to handle the OTs in the run game. So a guy like that can play anywhere on a DL, granted the nose isn't ideal but he could play any B or C gap with any technique.

He does seem well suited to the left side (over the RT) but when you're as effective as he is in any usage that means he can be moved to match up with the weakest link on the opposing line.

It would be nice to see Young get on a roll here soon. Seems like he'll remain an effort sack producer (low pressure output) but he is quite good vs the run, hard to break contain on. Much harder to get around, for example, than Verse who gets caught inside quite a bit more it seems.

Verse / Fiske / XXXXX / Turner / Young

That's how I see our existing DL as things stand. Turner & Fiske are plus starters, Verse is elite. Young is solid. So a stud NT would put this front over the top. No OL would be able to handle them. And if that comes let's say round 3, with a good corner at the top... We would have an elite defense.

Merlin,
So are you suggesting that we go to a 5 man defensive line? It would really be the only way we could get 'em all on the field at the same time......

~ArkyRamsFan~

 

[Merlin]

Merlin,
So are you suggesting that we go to a 5 man defensive line? It would really be the only way we could get 'em all on the field at the same time......

~ArkyRamsFan~

In that example I put up I'm listing the OLBs out on the edge as part of the group, so that is a defensive front moreso than a DL.

But our 3 man DL for our odd fronts is a bit light in the pants, which is why I think NT is the need. Adding a snot bubbler in the middle means we have two quick DL on either side of him which should help them on early downs when teams want to mash.

Also possible would be the Rams keeping Turner at NT. If they go that route then the plan would be a 5T type, which is usually a rangy long bastard who can deal with the tackles. But either way another plus starter on that DL feels like it would be a wise investment and make that group unstoppable. Teams would slide every protection to Verse, but that front would cause OL all kinds of problems.

 

[ArkyRamsFan]

In that example I put up I'm listing the OLBs out on the edge as part of the group, so that is a defensive front moreso than a DL.

But our 3 man DL for our odd fronts is a bit light in the pants, which is why I think NT is the need. Adding a snot bubbler in the middle means we have two quick DL on either side of him which should help them on early downs when teams want to mash.

Also possible would be the Rams keeping Turner at NT. If they go that route then the plan would be a 5T type, which is usually a rangy long bastard who can deal with the tackles. But either way another plus starter on that DL feels like it would be a wise investment and make that group unstoppable. Teams would slide every protection to Verse, but that front would cause OL all kinds of problems.

Okay I see where you are coming from for the most part. BTW what has been your impression of Tyler Davis so far? Me thinks he's a bit light in the pants himself to be much more than a backup at this point.

I could be wrong but I am happy that he's a member of The Les Snead Sixth Rounder Club!!

~ArkyRamsFan~

 

[Merlin]

Okay I see where you are coming from for the most part. BTW what has been your impression of Tyler Davis so far? Me thinks he's a bit light in the pants himself to be much more than a backup at this point.

I could be wrong but I am happy that he's a member of The Les Snead Sixth Rounder Club!!

~ArkyRamsFan~

I think Davis is a good rotational piece. And that's important to keep them fresh.

 

[DzRams]

In that example I put up I'm listing the OLBs out on the edge as part of the group, so that is a defensive front moreso than a DL.

But our 3 man DL for our odd fronts is a bit light in the pants, which is why I think NT is the need. Adding a snot bubbler in the middle means we have two quick DL on either side of him which should help them on early downs when teams want to mash.

Also possible would be the Rams keeping Turner at NT. If they go that route then the plan would be a 5T type, which is usually a rangy long bastard who can deal with the tackles. But either way another plus starter on that DL feels like it would be a wise investment and make that group unstoppable. Teams would slide every protection to Verse, but that front would cause OL all kinds of problems.

Can Turner play 5T?

 

[Merlin]

Can Turner play 5T?

He seems to be able to do it. Rams move guys around all the time, so I am sure I've seen him over there. Only real difference is he would be seeing the guys with the long arms on more snaps.

But this is why I say either or with NT or 5T. I think we just need one more good DL in there. Note though that the classic 5T types are harder to find than the nose. With the nose you want that widebody low to the ground with a good motor. The old beefed up FB type body (short and good endurance) who can drop the anchor. Though of course a taller player who can anchor in there is fine, you just don't need to go find the tall dudes as they're fewer and further between.

Also and btw teams sometimes prioritize guys who can stay on their feet if they face a lot of outside zone type offenses. But it seems like a lot of our division teams have trended to power so idk. Not sure exactly what the Rams priority list for Snead looks like there.

 

[InfiniteRam]

The games where Atwell was relied upon more were the games when Kupp and Nacua were out. And he didn't do shit.

So Atwell is not clutch. If you want to know what a clutch wideout of the small variety looks like it is Steve Smith. Atwell is a third wideout who is best served in the slot or the Z spot to allow him space to get off the LOS but he cannot carry an offense in that role. In other words defenses can nullify him quite easily. If his head was screwed on straight he could be an Az Hakim for us. So maybe he can get to that type of level, but this offense is better off with him on the bench because the journeyman wideout Robinson routinely outperforms him.

Also I have no problem with them sending him deep and stretching the field. But he doesn't draw safeties like good wideouts who have speed will.

Building up Atwell to be significant is no different than talking up some of these other subpar options on this roster who were not able to step up in the absence of actual good players. Like the entire TE room for example. None of them are really worth a shit outside of occasionally putting the ball on them as a surprise to the defense.

Atwell had 23 catches for nearly 340 yards in those five games.

 

[Merlin]

Atwell had 23 catches for nearly 340 yards in those five games.

He also had a bunch of drops and the offense couldn't move the ball for fuck.

 

[Faceplant]

He also had a bunch of drops and the offense couldn't move the ball for fuck.

Sounds like you have a personal axe to grind with Tutu for some reason. No one is claiming he is a #1 or even a #2 WR, but he has a trick or 2 to offer this team. He passes the eye test for me every time I see him get the ops.

I wonder what the success rate on deep balls to him is. Seems to me he either catches them (if they are accurate throws) and when he doesn't, he gets the flag. That's huge.

 

[RamDino]

Sounds like you have a personal axe to grind with Tutu for some reason. No one is claiming he is a #1 or even a #2 WR, but he has a trick or 2 to offer this team. He passes the eye test for me every time I see him get the ops.

I wonder what the success rate on deep balls to him is. Seems to me he either catches them (if they are accurate throws) and when he doesn't, he gets the flag. That's huge.

He also has good hands and runs good routes. I'm not a big fan because of his size but he is a great receiver coming off the bench. He will be playing elsewhere next year.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

Seems to me he either catches them (if they are accurate throws) and when he doesn't, he gets the flag. That's huge.

I recall several huge PI calls when he gets sent deep. Anyone know how many yards that has accounted for?

 

[Ellard80]

Really, this team needs a pass rushing freak at edge.

Verse is going to be more a long the lines of a strong-side end. Plays with power, holds the edge and will push the pocket to get pressures. Kind of like a Chris Long at best. However, he will never have the bend & lean to be an elite pass rusher off the edge. Probably a guy that maxes out at a 8 sack a year.

Young is similar in that while he has speed to get there on stunts, he will not be able to beat a decent RT with any regularity. So if he could move inside someday, getting a more elite edge rusher would bring the D to a new level.

Will be interesting if they still try to upgrade edge this year to improve the pass rush.

yeah some peeps want to argue with me on this one also.

We really are not generating much pass rush at all in the past month or more.

 

[Ellard80]

Agreed on Young. They could use an upgrade there. He's more of a cleanup sack guy.

I have to disagree on Verse though. (I held your opinion before drafting him and now admit to being wrong.) He doesn't have double digit sacks now because he's missed so many tackles, but he's gotten there with his current skillset.

Also, he's top 5 in all of the pass rush metrics as a rookie so to say he can't be an elite pass rusher off the edge doesn't seem to align with facts. His power is rare and more than compensates for him not having the elite bend.

maybe

We currently rank 23rd in the nfl in pressures and 25th in sacks.

1st half of the year we were getting some pressure but not so much lately.

 

[Merlin]

Sounds like you have a personal axe to grind with Tutu for some reason. No one is claiming he is a #1 or even a #2 WR, but he has a trick or 2 to offer this team. He passes the eye test for me every time I see him get the ops.

I wonder what the success rate on deep balls to him is. Seems to me he either catches them (if they are accurate throws) and when he doesn't, he gets the flag. That's huge.

Wrong. I simply see him for what he is: an accessory piece.

Fans want to crown a dude who doesn't deserve it with titles like "clutch" knock yourselves out. But don't cry when you hear the counter opinion.

 

[Faceplant]

Who tf is crying?

 

[DzRams]

There are guys that are more "get close" guys as opposed a guy that comes tearing in off edge, beating their guy quickly and gets the sack.

I am not bashing him as his skill set is very helpful in collapsing an edge, or stunting and collapsing a pocket, but I think he will always be more of a high pressure rate guy than a high sack total guy.

Jadaveon Clowney is kind of similar. At his best, creates havoc, but doesn't get a ton of sacks.

I get the take since he does look like the Clowney type. And you very well may be right. I changed my mind because I see data points that indicate he will be a big sack guy.

In Clowney's 11 years, he's had one season that surpassed Verse's 68 total pressures to date (6 sacks, 14 QB hits, 48 hurries). His 14 QB hits matches Clowney's career high. Verse, as a still developing rookie, is already superior to Clowney in the very basic pass rush stats.

When you take a deeper dive into more advanced metrics, they aren't close. In PFFs and ESPN's pass rush metrics, Verse is in the top 10. Before he hit the wall, he was in the top 5 across all metrics. Clowney is usually in the 20s or 30s with his best years topping out at around 13th.

More than any other data point I've seen, the below chart from early November, shows that Verse is very capable of getting the quick win. Note that he ranks top 5 in quick disruption pressure rate.

 

[DzRams]

Sounds like you have a personal axe to grind with Tutu for some reason...

I think you're right. It does start to look like a personal axe to grind when people start to make up facts.

It was stated that Tutu has a lot of drops. He has 2 for the year which is certainly not a "lot."

 

[OldSchool]

maybe

We currently rank 23rd in the nfl in pressures and 25th in sacks.

1st half of the year we were getting some pressure but not so much lately.

First part of the year we also weren't playing good run defense at all. Now our edges are much better at containing and that's improved. Next step is getting our young edges to be able to do both. Just because the pass rush has lessened doesn't mean they won't get it back.

 

[dang]

Wrong. I simply see him for what he is: an accessory piece.

Fans want to crown a dude who doesn't deserve it with titles like "clutch" knock yourselves out. But don't cry when you hear the counter opinion.

Gotta weigh in. Atwell is merely “a” weapon. He is by no means “the” weapon in the Rams pass game. I’ve looked it up before but need to refresh. His catch to targets ratio was comparable to Kupp/Robinson last I checked. Doubt he competes with Nacuas on that but few do. I see him as a stretch the field, finds space, good hands receiver. He cannot, however, high point or contest catches. I’d personally like to see him used a bit more but that’s just my opinion. Glad we have him.

 

[Corbin]

---

I think Verse has hit what you might call the proverbial rookie wall. His bull rush, which he’s so effective at, can only take him so far in the NFL. Teams will inevitably adjust. However, from what I’ve seen, I believe Verse has the potential to surpass Chris Long in his career with the Rams. He’s just built differently.
That said, I agree with the need for the Rams to find a quick-twitch defensive end, one who specializes in passing downs. I’m not sure if that player is out there in free agency or the draft, but it’s definitely a gap in the roster.
Looking ahead at the direction the NFL is moving, I think it’s crucial for the Rams to address the interior defensive line. With our smaller, more athletic inside linebackers, we could really benefit from a dominant, run-stuffing defensive tackle. The league is shifting towards a more smash-mouth style of football, and the statistics support this shift. I believe I was the one who pointed out that rushing attempts are up and passing attempts are down by a margin we haven’t seen since 2012. Teams are starting to adjust their rosters to reflect this change. If you look at teams like the Lions, Eagles, Ravens, Packers, and Bills, there’s a clear trend: they all rank in the top ten in rushing and have some of the best records in the league. Sure, there are outliers like Minnesota, but even they’re top 15 in rushing.
With that in mind, the Rams need to be cautious about investing too much capital in a pass rusher, especially when there are more pressing needs on defense right now—namely defensive tackle, inside linebacker, and cornerback.

We have a DE that has been inactive all season that I’m wondering about? Dude looked pretty f’n good in college.

Brennan Jackson.