Six NFL teams headed for ugly 2021 season.

[wolfdogg]

huge mistake? what else were they gonna do? 6 and 10, 3 and 12 and a draw, 5 and 11.

were they on the right track the last 3 seasons?

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Stay at 5, take Justin fields and use their stafford draft picks to build an oline. Probably gives them 3 years of work. After 2 years of Goff in that lions offense, Detroit could very well be looking for a new qb and coach.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Stay at 5, take Justin fields and use their stafford draft picks to build an oline. Probably gives them 3 years of work. After 2 years of Goff in that lions offense, Detroit could very well be looking for a new qb and coach.

if they will suck as much as you think they will they will be picking in the top 3 next season. they will get their qb then but this year they wanted their lt for the future.

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[wolfdogg]

it seems to have become fact here at rod.

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I think the whole mcvay in the headset thing pertains to the fact that defenses knew that at the 15 second mic cutoff they could make dline adjustments and Sean couldn't help Jared with an answer whereas with Stafford we won't have that. Matt will know how to respond better to the defensive changes after the 15 second cut-off mark.

Not saying Jared couldn't altogether but just from what we saw defenses do and how Jared reacted, he was having some difficulty with particular defensive schemes. The niners beat him the last 4 times they met and Jared threw 2 pick 6's while averaging under 200 yards a game and the lions are no where near the rams last 2 years. I see another pick 6 week one.

 

[wolfdogg]

if they will suck as much as you think they will they will be picking in the top 3 next season. they will get their qb then but this year they wanted their lt for the future.

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Oh they'll suck alright but if they grab their qb next year they still could have taken their LT of the future and brought in teddy b or any of the handful of qbs that were much cheaper and had better passing numbers than goff the past 2 seasons. Of course they didn't because they believe in Jared but I'm saying that their belief will prove to be a huge mistake and we will see that start to play out in 2 weeks

 

[Angry Ram]

Stay at 5, take Justin fields and use their stafford draft picks to build an oline. Probably gives them 3 years of work. After 2 years of Goff in that lions offense, Detroit could very well be looking for a new qb and coach.

Oh boy. If Justin Fields wins or evens sweeps the Lions I'm definitely taking a gander on Lions message boards.

Detroit is in a world of hurt. Barely any talent, going against some teams that have absolute HoF talent level players. Dalvin Cook. Jairie Alexander. Khalil Mack. Davante Adams.

Detroit has a center, rookie tackle, a, TO prone QB and a decent RB. Yeesh.

 

[jrry32]

I think the whole mcvay in the headset thing pertains to the fact that defenses knew that at the 15 second mic cutoff they could make dline adjustments and Sean couldn't help Jared with an answer whereas with Stafford we won't have that. Matt will know how to respond better to the defensive changes after the 15 second cut-off mark.

Not saying Jared couldn't altogether but just from what we saw defenses do and how Jared reacted, he was having some difficulty with particular defensive schemes. The niners beat him the last 4 times they met and Jared threw 2 pick 6's while averaging under 200 yards a game and the lions are no where near the rams last 2 years. I see another pick 6 week one.

There's an easy solution to that problem. Snap the ball with 16 seconds left. McVay is a much smarter football mind than me, so I have a hard time believing he wouldn't use that counter if that was the problem. The big problem I saw is that teams figured out the scheme's weaknesses and Goff's weaknesses. It is true that Stafford is more capable of covering for some of the scheme's weaknesses and doesn't have the same weaknesses that Goff does. That's the advantage of a long-time veteran at QB.

As for the Niners, I'm not expecting a good game from Goff against them. They have a great defense on paper and his number. But it's worth remembering that Goff is now running a different offense. McVay's offense borrows heavily from the Shanahans' offense, so if there's a team that is going to understand how to attack that scheme, it's a team coached by a Shanahan.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Oh boy. If Justin Fields wins or evens sweeps the Lions I'm definitely taking a gander on Lions message boards.

Detroit is in a world of hurt. Barely any talent, going against some teams that have absolute HoF talent level players. Dalvin Cook. Jairie Alexander. Khalil Mack. Davante Adams.

Detroit has a center, rookie tackle, a, TO prone QB and a decent RB. Yeesh.

I agree with all that but they do have two extra 1st rd picks which really was the meat of that deal on their end. They took on a bad contract but those picks will allow them to draft a franchise cornerstone type player. Probably a QB.

IMO they'll be a trainwreck this year but have a chance to reboot next year.

 

[Tano]

I agree with all that but they do have two extra 1st rd picks which really was the meat of that deal on their end. They took on a bad contract but those picks will allow them to draft a franchise cornerstone type player. Probably a QB.

IMO they'll be a trainwreck this year but have a chance to reboot next year.

I just don't see how it is a bad contract for the Lions.

They have Goff at $25 Million per year. That's not bad for a QB (even if you consider Goff an average QB)

And if they want to, they can cut Goff after this year and only have a 15M Cap hit

And 2 years from now - a $0 cap hit.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I just don't see how it is a bad contract for the Lions.

They have Goff at $25 Million per year. That's not bad for a QB (even if you consider Goff an average QB)

And if they want to, they can cut Goff after this year and only have a 15M Cap hit

And 2 years from now - a $0 cap hit.

The way i see it is, their stop gap QB who is a turnover machine and doesn't make near enough plays makes too much money.

If you feel like that's money well spent i don't know what to tell ya. It isn't but they got the picks. That's the meat of the trade.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Oh they'll suck alright but if they grab their qb next year they still could have taken their LT of the future and brought in teddy b or any of the handful of qbs that were much cheaper and had better passing numbers than goff the past 2 seasons. Of course they didn't because they believe in Jared but I'm saying that their belief will prove to be a huge mistake and we will see that start to play out in 2 weeks

I wonder if not blocking the signing of Brad Holmes as Detroit’s GM helped get the Rams some leverage in Stafford talks.

Just having a Ram insider who is a minority and got a real chance at being a top exec. because of Snead could have won them some favor in the trade by a grateful ex employee moving up the ladder.

 

[Angry Ram]

I agree with all that but they do have two extra 1st rd picks which really was the meat of that deal on their end. They took on a bad contract but those picks will allow them to draft a franchise cornerstone type player. Probably a QB.

IMO they'll be a trainwreck this year but have a chance to reboot next year.

Yup. Assuming those picks actually hit.

 

[jrry32]

The way i see it is, their stop gap QB who is a turnover machine and doesn't make near enough plays makes too much money.

If you feel like that's money well spent i don't know what to tell ya. It isn't but they got the picks. That's the meat of the trade.

Looking at it a different way, they have a 26 year old QB who has an awfully impressive list of accomplishments (two Pro Bowls, led offenses that were among the best in 2017 and 2018 and a top 10 offense in 2019, three playoff appearances, a Super Bowl appearance, and four winning seasons in the past four years). They bought low on a QB who put together multiple top 10 QB seasons before his 25th birthday. Maybe it pans out. Maybe it doesn't.

I wonder if not blocking the signing of Brad Holmes as Detroit’s GM helped get the Rams some leverage in Stafford talks.

Just having a Ram insider who is a minority and got a real chance at being a top exec. because of Snead could have won them some favor in the trade by a grateful ex employee moving up the ladder.

To the extent Brad Holmes helped us, it was likely his positive opinion of Goff. Keep in mind that Stafford wanted to come here, and we made a better offer than the other teams on his list.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Looking at it a different way, they have a 26 year old QB who has an awfully impressive list of accomplishments (two Pro Bowls, led offenses that were among the best in 2017 and 2018 and a top 10 offense in 2019, three playoff appearances, a Super Bowl appearance, and four winning seasons in the past four years). They bought low on a QB who put together multiple top 10 QB seasons before his 25th birthday. Maybe it pans out. Maybe it doesn't.

To the extent Brad Holmes helped us, it was likely his positive opinion of Goff. Keep in mind that Stafford wanted to come here, and we made a better offer than the other teams on his list.

I doubt they'd come out and say, "Well it also helps that the Lions new GM is a close friend and wanted to pay us back for the opportunity he was given." It'd look like tampering.

Holmes knows Goff's strengths and weaknesses as well as anyone and I doubt he considered him as more than a stopgap to the Lions next highly drafted QB. Goff solved the problem of, "what do we do now?, we just traded our starting QB.". If he was the centerpiece for Holmes then the Rams could have saved some draft picks.

 

[jrry32]

I doubt they'd come out and say, "Well it also helps that the Lions new GM is a close friend and wanted to pay us back for the opportunity he was given." It'd look like tampering.

Holmes knows Goff's strengths and weaknesses as well as anyone and I doubt he considered him as more than a stopgap to the Lions next highly drafted QB. Goff solved the problem of, "what do we do now?, we just traded our starting QB.". If he was the centerpiece for Holmes then the Rams could have saved some draft picks.

Stafford gave the Lions a list of three teams: us, the 49ers, and the Colts. Based on the reported offers, the only team who offered a comparable deal to ours was Carolina. The QB offered in Carolina's deal was Bridgewater. And we offered Goff. The Lions chose our team, and I expect Stafford listing us as his #1 preferred team didn't hurt when the deals were close. It also likely didn't hurt that Holmes was one of Goff's biggest supporters in 2016. Frankly, if Holmes didn't think Goff was any good, there were QBs to target in the Draft this year.

Either ways, I don't think Holmes was being charitable to us. It wouldn't make sense for a guy going into a difficult new job to give us a discount. I'm sure he was appreciative of Snead's mentorship, but this is a business, and he works for a competitor. On Goff, my best guess is that Holmes thinks it's worth giving him a go. If he succeeds, that's a big W for Holmes. If he fails, Holmes drafts a QB of the future and says that Goff was always just a bridge QB. We needed Goff gone, and the Lions needed a starting QB.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Looking at it a different way, they have a 26 year old QB who has an awfully impressive list of accomplishments (two Pro Bowls, led offenses that were among the best in 2017 and 2018 and a top 10 offense in 2019, three playoff appearances, a Super Bowl appearance, and four winning seasons in the past four years). They bought low on a QB who put together multiple top 10 QB seasons before his 25th birthday. Maybe it pans out. Maybe it doesn't.

It really depends on your opinion of Goff. My opinion doesn't line up with yours.

I 100% believe his best years are behind him, especially when touting things like SB appearances, playoffs, numbers etc. I think he'll be in the league for quite awhile though.

 

[jrry32]

It really depends on your opinion of Goff. My opinion doesn't line up with yours.

I 100% believe his best years are behind him, especially when touting things like SB appearances, playoffs, numbers etc. I think he'll be in the league for quite awhile though.

That's fine. But it would make Goff a true anomaly. There aren't many pocket passers in NFL history who peaked to the level he did so early in their careers and then didn't achieve much the rest of the way.

In fact, the only other pocket passer I could find (looking back to 1990) was Drew Bledsoe. He had two top 10 seasons at 24 and 25, went to the Pro Bowl both years, led his team to a Super Bowl loss at 24, won a bunch of games in the early going, and then lost his job to Brady. To his credit, he did make a Pro Bowl with the Bills the year after he lost his job to Brady. But he peaked early in his career.

Marino also peaked early, but he obviously had a lot of good years even after that peak. The rest of the guys who come to mind are all runners, who tend to have very different career arcs. Basically, if Goff doesn't become a good QB again, he will have had an extremely unusual career arc for a pocket passer.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I think the whole mcvay in the headset thing pertains to the fact that defenses knew that at the 15 second mic cutoff they could make dline adjustments and Sean couldn't help Jared with an answer whereas with Stafford we won't have that. Matt will know how to respond better to the defensive changes after the 15 second cut-off mark.

Not saying Jared couldn't altogether but just from what we saw defenses do and how Jared reacted, he was having some difficulty with particular defensive schemes. The niners beat him the last 4 times they met and Jared threw 2 pick 6's while averaging under 200 yards a game and the lions are no where near the rams last 2 years. I see another pick 6 week one.

every defense disguises what it's doing before the ball is snapped against every qb. how come this only gets brought up with reference to goff? seriously? every oc talks to their qb between plays. how come this is only a thing for goff?

i'm astounded there are knowledgeable football fans in here that still run with that stuff. or began with it after goff started struggling.

and yes, stafford should deal much better with defenses playing shenanigans after the snap. he has 7 years more experience.

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[bluecoconuts]

The way i see it is, their stop gap QB who is a turnover machine and doesn't make near enough plays makes too much money.

If you feel like that's money well spent i don't know what to tell ya. It isn't but they got the picks. That's the meat of the trade.

He made enough plays to get to a Super Bowl, which is more than we can say about any QB on our roster at this time. He's got playoff wins, Stafford doesn't, shit, Goff even has more Pro Bowls than Stafford does.

Lions got themselves a QB that has won before, which is something they haven't had in I don't know how long.. Maybe ever, no idea about them.

I like the trade and think Stafford is a better QB, but Goff isn't some slouch.

 

[Tano]

It really depends on your opinion of Goff. My opinion doesn't line up with yours.

I 100% believe his best years are behind him, especially when touting things like SB appearances, playoffs, numbers etc. I think he'll be in the league for quite awhile though.

I have to disagree with you on that but you don't like Goff whereas I do so we are going to have complete difference of opinion on this subject.

 

[wolfdogg]

every defense disguises what it's doing before the ball is snapped against every qb. how come this only gets brought up with reference to goff? seriously? every oc talks to their qb between plays. how come this is only a thing for goff?

i'm astounded there are knowledgeable football fans in here that still run with that stuff. or began with it after goff started struggling.

and yes, stafford should deal much better with defenses playing shenanigans after the snap. he has 7 years more experience.

.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Of course everyone knows defenses switch and disguise their look up to the snap.

I'm saying that after the coach mic is cut off, Goff was more susceptible to mistakes because the defense would shift and mcvay couldn't tell him what he wanted him to do.

My analogy is that sometimes at the 15 second cut-off, when the stadium lights go off for goff, he's in trouble. With Stafford the lights go off at 15 seconds but he has a big ol flashlight on top of his helmet.

Now you could say coaches talk to their qb between plays but the mistake has already been made, and it doesn't mean they fixed the problem.

The Miami game last year is a great example. They played the same fronts that the bears and the pats played against him in the SB and he till couldn't make the proper adjustments. On one of the 2 fumbles returned for a td, he did not make the protection adjustment and the DE came untouched.