Saquon Barkley vs Todd Gurley

[Picked4td]

Umm, how in the world did you come to that conclusion? Barkley had a lot more talent around him to keep defenses from focusing on him, which means he should have been more efficient than Gurley, but he wasn't. Penn State's passing game averaged almost 100 YPG more than UGA did in Gurley's junior year. Barkley also has McSorley, who is a threat to keep the ball and run with it. Everyone and their mother knew Todd was getting the ball, especially in 2014, and it just DID NOT MATTER.

In regards to the O-line, David Andrews was the only NFL talent on Georgia's squad. Also, Gurley was facing SEC defensive fronts almost every week, so I'd say the O-line argument is a wash. Go watch Todd's film from the 2012 SEC Championship Game. That Bama defense was one of the best of all time and Gurley just kept pounding them without much blocking help. And that was back when he was a freshman...

I'll say it again, Gurley never averaged less than 3.0 YPC in a game. Barkley had that happen three times in 2017 alone...

just like you said to another poster about not knowing Gurley's college tape, you clearly dont know Barkley's tape. its pointless to argue he had better supporting cast cuz thats not the issue with his stats. the issue is that the coaching staff used him completely wrong. Barkley would have FLOURISHED in an offense like Georgia where he can get the ball as hes already moving downhill. but PSU used a spread gun offense all game and every carry for barkley had him going lateral at the start of the play and not downhill. add in the whole read option aspect and theres a significant delay to him actually getting the ball in his hands, giving the defense time to react and with the horrible oline issues they had, it really killed barkley way too often.

the biggest reason theres so much hype for barkley is the intangibles. hes likely going to run a sub 4.4 40, and has the strength of lineman/linebackers (holds PSU all time records in a few lifts regardless of positions). in the modern era, theres only been 3 guys I can think of with elite speed and strength/power and thats barkley, AP, and Gurley. Theres a legitimate case that Barkley is faster and stronger than both of them and he easily showed the best ability as a receiver in college (not saying hes far superior to Gurley in that area but he was clearly used more as a receiver).

Its well documented the love affair you have for Gurley and its completely understandable to think hes the better prospect, but for you to say (and i quote) "I don't see how people can justify saying he's better than Todd" thats just blasphemous

 

[NateDawg122]

just like you said to another poster about not knowing Gurley's college tape, you clearly dont know Barkley's tape. its pointless to argue he had better supporting cast cuz thats not the issue with his stats. the issue is that the coaching staff used him completely wrong. Barkley would have FLOURISHED in an offense like Georgia where he can get the ball as hes already moving downhill. but PSU used a spread gun offense all game and every carry for barkley had him going lateral at the start of the play and not downhill. add in the whole read option aspect and theres a significant delay to him actually getting the ball in his hands, giving the defense time to react and with the horrible oline issues they had, it really killed barkley way too often.

the biggest reason theres so much hype for barkley is the intangibles. hes likely going to run a sub 4.4 40, and has the strength of lineman/linebackers (holds PSU all time records in a few lifts regardless of positions). in the modern era, theres only been 3 guys I can think of with elite speed and strength/power and thats barkley, AP, and Gurley. Theres a legitimate case that Barkley is faster and stronger than both of them and he easily showed the best ability as a receiver in college (not saying hes far superior to Gurley in that area but he was clearly used more as a receiver).

Its well documented the love affair you have for Gurley and its completely understandable to think hes the better prospect, but for you to say (and i quote) "I don't see how people can justify saying he's better than Todd" thats just blasphemous

I've watched quite a bit of Barkley's tape, it's the reason I think he's such a beast. But be careful when you start saying that he would have done a lot better at Georgia. Richt wouldn't have used Saquon NEARLY as much in the passing game. Also, he would've been facing a lot more stacked boxes then he did at PSU. Go watch Gurley's 2014 game against Tennessee and you'll see what I mean. And let's not sit here and pretend Gurley and Saquon faced the same level of talent in college, because they didn't. Barkley might've done better at Georgia, but it's definitely no sure thing.

And I don't know about Barkley being faster and stronger. Barkley's fastest 100M is 10.74, Gurley's is 10.70. Todd also beat his teammate, Chris Conley, several times in 40 yard races his Junior year. Conley went on to clock a 4.35 40 yard dash at the Combine...
Todd is also bigger than Saquon.

 

[shaunpinney]

It'll depend on which team Garkley lands on ow good a pro he is.

 

[NateDawg122]

And just for those that keep saying how much worse Barkley's line was than Todd's, watch their highlights and then tell me who was having to do more work at the LOS:





Gurley consistently had less room to work with while Saquon had much bigger holes to run through. That also may be because of the talent gap between the defenses each of them faced. I'm thankful for it now because it's made Gurley's vision incredible.

Hell, ask Jerry about it. As a Florida fan I'm sure he remembers what Todd did to them in 2012 and 2013. That Florida defense, especially in 2012, was ELITE in every sense of the word and Todd would consistently make something out of nothing against them. Same thing against Bama.

 

[Adi]

Let's see if he can put up 35 tds in his first 3 years

 

[DaveFan'51]

Barkley is a great COLLEGE RB, lets see how he does at the professional level before we anoint him the next Jim Brown
train

This^! I want to see:
* How he is in the Combine!
* What his SPARQ Scores look like!
* And how he performs in his 1st 2 or 3 years!!

He'll probably get Drafted by a "Losing Team"!

 

[nighttrain]

This^! I want to see:
* How he is in the Combine!
* What his SPARQ Scores look like!
* And how he performs in his 1st 2 or 3 years!!

He'll probably get Drafted by a "Losing Team"!

kinda like Gurley was huh Dave?
train

 

[LACHAMP46]

Wow...
Saquon is an exciting young player....burst on to the scene for me against the Trojans...very elusive.

Now, college RB's to me...to me....seem to transition well when they also show the ability to break a large amount of tackles....in college. I don't see Barkley doing a bunch of that...he cuts and moves very well, but I just don't see him running through defenders breaking tackles. It's something that translates well....to go with speed.

Gurley did this is college...like a lot of the good ones....Barkley doesn't...imo.

Barkley seems to make guys miss...kinda like Barry and Billy...Sims for those that don't know. Barry broke a few tackles as well, but he could really cut/juke...make guys miss....

I also heard Barkley is bigger than he looks...should check in at 230 lbs.

Saquon is an absolute beast but he's not bigger or faster than Todd either, and his efficiency in college wasn't as good as TG3. Gurley also has the best hurdling ability of any RB in NFL history. I just don't see how these arguments are justified. Thoughts?

I heard he's 230 lbs...at 5'11...pretty solid. I heard he'll run a 4.3....seem similar in size.

Put it into perspective. Barkley ran behind a much weaker line than the lines that Georgia has had. Due to sanctions PSU is just now starting to field a quality Oline.

The offense each back ran out of was different. Barkley had no lead blockers and was closer to the LOS with the RPO offense. He was usually right next to the QB. He couldn’t build as much speed hitting the hole.

Barkley has been timed at 4.3 in the 40 on several attempts. He has more lateral movement than Gurley and breaks tackles better. His thighs are massive. So he has sharp cutting abilityStrength and speed.

Gurley is more of a speed back. He evades tacklers moreso than running through them or making stop and go cuts or jump cuts.

Great points...But...

Barkley is a more complete back. He does it all. I am happy with Gurley but he is not better than Saquon.

Don't know how you can come to this conclusion....Again...I haven't seen the physicality of Gurley in Barkley....at the college level.

I know more about Gurley than anyone on this board. That's not condescending, it's the truth. I went to school with this guy.

That's debatable...but I respect your insight.

 

[DaveFan'51]

With out-a-Doubt Guuuurley is the OPY and Come-Back Player of the Year!! and...

* McVay HC of the year!
* Donald Defensive Player of the Year! (F--K Callius Campbell!)
* Zuerlein is Special Teams Playerof the Year!

I Hope the Rams "Sweep-the-Awards" at Tommorrow-Nights Awards!!:yess:

Edit: I don't want to forget, Cooper Kupp Rookie of the Year!!!!

 

[NateDawg122]

Passsssss blooooockinnnngggg.

Not trying to stir the pot with you here, but watch this film from the 2014 UGA vs SCAR game:



Very first play Gurley takes on an unblocked 305 pound DT by the name of J.T. Surratt, who was a very good college player. As a South Carolina grad, Jerry can attest to that. Gurley locked him up on that pass blocking play.

And while you're at it just watch the whole video, because it might change your opinion about how much room Gurley had to work with while he was at Georgia. He constantly made big gains out of absolutely nothing. Specifically, watch his last two runs in the video. There was NOWHERE to go but Todd found a way to make something happen when his team was desperate.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Wow...
Saquon is an exciting young player....burst on to the scene for me against the Trojans...very elusive.

Now, college RB's to me...to me....seem to transition well when they also show the ability to break a large amount of tackles....in college. I don't see Barkley doing a bunch of that...he cuts and moves very well, but I just don't see him running through defenders breaking tackles. It's something that translates well....to go with speed.

Gurley did this is college...like a lot of the good ones....Barkley doesn't...imo.

Barkley seems to make guys miss...kinda like Barry and Billy...Sims for those that don't know. Barry broke a few tackles as well, but he could really cut/juke...make guys miss....

I also heard Barkley is bigger than he looks...should check in at 230 lbs.

I heard he's 230 lbs...at 5'11...pretty solid. I heard he'll run a 4.3....seem similar in size.


Great points...But...

Don't know how you can come to this conclusion....Again...I haven't seen the physicality of Gurley in Barkley....at the college level.
That's debatable...but I respect your insight.

I don’t consider Gurley to be some bruising tackle breaking machine. He is more like Dickerson with speed and subtle cuts that make guys miss. He isn’t a John Riggins type. Barkley breaks tackles and slso jukes. He even has hurdled some tacklers. Barkley is a stronger/faster David Johnson type.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I would certainly hope so, because if he doesn't then your argument is in the shitter. Todd didn't play the whole year and was coming off a torn ACL. Oh, and he was being coached by buffoons.

How well did Gurley run behind that shorty Rsms Oline last year? He didn’t seem to good at creating his own holes. Barkley had to do a lot of that in his first two years in college.

Todd ran great this year but he had big holes to hit and great second level blocking.

 

[FrantikRam]

Saquon isn't better right now, obviously.

But he's the best college football player I've ever seen and I've never been more confident in a player becoming a stud in the NFL (barring major injury of course).

He's definitely better than Zeke was coming out - that's not even close - and I say that as an Ohio State fan that watched a lot of both players.

 

[NateDawg122]

How well did Gurley run behind that shorty Rsms Oline last year? He didn’t seem to good at creating his own holes. Barkley had to do a lot of that in his first two years in college.

Todd ran great this year but he had big holes to hit and great second level blocking.

Are you really trying to compare NFL holes and defenses to those that Barkley faced?! Your "stronger/faster David Johnson" was completely shut down by a Rutgers defense that ranked 83rd against the rush!

I'm sorry but if you look at their college film Gurley created his own space a lot more frequently and against MUCH better opponents. He threw top players like Vic Beasley around like rag dolls.

 

[NateDawg122]

I don’t consider Gurley to be some bruising tackle breaking machine. He is more like Dickerson with speed and subtle cuts that make guys miss. He isn’t a John Riggins type. Barkley breaks tackles and slso jukes. He even has hurdled some tacklers. Barkley is a stronger/faster David Johnson type.

Yea for sure, Gurley is no tackle breaker...



In 2014, Gurley averaged around 90 yards a game....AFTER CONTACT!

Honest question here, and I'm not trying to be rude, but did you watch a single game Todd played in in college?

 

[Ramlock]

I know what I am talking about.

Go hard, pard...have a big time

It's a long off-season and I'm bored with this already

 

[Loyal]

Extrapolating Barkley's success in college vs college players to his performance in the Pro's, is ridiculous. So many different factors involved in the transition to the NFL and Barkley is a promising and yet unproven prospect. Even is he is a good pro, who says he will develop like Gurley and Elliot? Who knows whether he reaches anywhere close to their developing potential?

This comparison and projection for Barkley, is severely premature and overstated.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Well one is a college athlete and the other a MVP Candidate in the NFL. So I guess we will see

 

[Corbin]

I don’t consider Gurley to be some bruising tackle breaking machine. He is more like Dickerson with speed and subtle cuts that make guys miss. He isn’t a John Riggins type. Barkley breaks tackles and slso jukes. He even has hurdled some tacklers. Barkley is a stronger/faster David Johnson type.

As a devout Michigan fan I agree 100% on your assessments here. Barkley is more of a David Johnson type as Gurley is hands down more like a Dickerson but more agile without a doubt. If you look at old tape with ED you could stop him if you penetrated enough to stop him from gaining speed, with Todd he's agile and his change of direction is exceptional.

I'm not sure about Barkley as a pro. Not because of his talent of course but more because who drafts him and their inability to use him correctly. It will be interesting!

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Yea for sure, Gurley is no tackle breaker...



In 2014, Gurley averaged around 90 yards a game....AFTER CONTACT!

Honest question here, and I'm not trying to be rude, but did you watch a single game Todd played in in college?

Any decent back breaks tackles. The difference is in what your calling breaking a tackle. A player reaching for a running back as he glides by only to get touched is a broken tackle. Gurley is no Earl Campbell, John Riggins or even Steven Jackson in the tackle breaking department. Breaking tackles and yards after contact aren't the same in my book.
Where Jackson would drag runners and plow them over, Gurley out runs arm tackles and hurdles monomers. Different styles altogether. Barkley is a bit of both.

Extrapolating Barkley's success in college vs college players to his performance in the Pro's, is ridiculous. So many different factors involved in the transition to the NFL and Barkley is a promising and yet unproven prospect. Even is he is a good pro, who says he will develop like Gurley and Elliot? Who knows whether he reaches anywhere close to their developing potential?

This comparison and projection for Barkley, is severely premature and overstated.

Wasn't that the point of the post? Questioning which was the better prospect coming out of college?