Saquon Barkley vs Todd Gurley

[jrry32]

That is a horrible analogy. The gap between AP and Lewis as a runner is massive.

You are definitely in the minority in thinking Gurley was a better receiver (except maybe on a Rams fan site).

From my perspective Gurley wins the running aspect, but Barkley is close. Barkley is the more dynamic receiver and I was not nearly as impressed with Gurley's college receiving ability as you are. Barkley is an NFL ready pass blocker. Gurley was not. That's how I easily come to the conclusion that Barkley is more well-rounded and a better NFL prospect entering the draft.

Gurley has always had the receiving ability he showed this year. You're understating Gurley's receiving ability because Georgia didn't involve the HB in the passing game to the same extent that Penn State does. What Gurley showed this year as a receiver didn't develop out of thin air.

 

[NateDawg122]

That is a horrible analogy. The gap between AP and Lewis as a runner is massive.

You are definitely in the minority in thinking Gurley was a better receiver (except maybe on a Rams fan site).

From my perspective Gurley wins the running aspect, but Barkley is close. Barkley is the more dynamic receiver and I was not nearly as impressed with Gurley's college receiving ability as you are. Barkley is an NFL ready pass blocker. Gurley was not. That's how I easily come to the conclusion that Barkley is more well-rounded and a better NFL prospect entering the draft.

No offense, but you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to Gurley's college tape. And I promise I've watched a lot more of it then you have. Gurley's receiving abilities didn't come out of nowhere, he had them all throughout college. His coaches just didn't use them like Barkley's coaches.

And I didn't say Dion Lewis=Barkley and AP=Todd. The point was that just because a back is more well-rounded doesn't mean they are better.

 

[MadGoat]

No offense, but you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to Gurley's college tape. And I promise I've watched a lot more of it then you have. Gurley's receiving abilities didn't come out of nowhere, he had them all throughout college. His coaches just didn't use them like Barkley's coaches.

And I didn't say Dion Lewis=Barkley and AP=Todd. The point was that just because a back is more well-rounded doesn't mean they are better.

No offense, but you are pretty condescending. no offense though.

 

[NateDawg122]

No offense, but you are pretty condescending. no offense though.

Doesn't change the fact that I'm right. Objectively speaking, I know more about Gurley than anyone on this board. That's not condescending, it's the truth. I went to school with this guy.

 

[MadGoat]

Doesn't change the fact that I'm right. Objectively speaking, I know more about Gurley than anyone on this board. That's not condescending, it's the truth. I went to school with this guy.

Got it. Explains a lot.

 

[NateDawg122]

Got it. Explains a lot.

Oh I'm admittedly biased, but it doesn't make me wrong. And it doesn't make all the facts I posted wrong either.

 

[jrry32]

Doesn't change the fact that I'm right. Objectively speaking, I know more about Gurley than anyone on this board. That's not condescending, it's the truth. I went to school with this guy.

You're a Bulldog? Ew.

 

[Ramlock]

Put it into perspective. Barkley ran behind a much weaker line than the lines that Georgia has had. Due to sanctions PSU is just now starting to field a quality Oline.

The offense each back ran out of was different. Barkley had no lead blockers and was closer to the LOS with the RPO offense. He was usually right next to the QB. He couldn’t build as much speed hitting the hole.

Barkley has been timed at 4.3 in the 40 on several attempts. He has more lateral movement than Gurley and breaks tackles better. His thighs are massive. So he has sharp cutting abilityStrength and speed.

Gurley is more of a speed back. He evades tacklers moreso than running through them or making stop and go cuts or jump cuts.

Barkley is a more complete back. He does it all. I am happy with Gurley but he is not better than Saquon.

Not sure about all that, pard

 

[NateDawg122]

You're a Bulldog? Ew.

Hey don't hate, lol. Yea I recently graduated from there.

Just don't tell me you're an Alabama fan, that wound is still fresh... Haha

 

[jrry32]

Hey don't hate, lol. Yea I recently graduated from there.

Just don't tell me you're an Alabama fan, that wound is still fresh... Haha

Nope. I have degrees from UF and South Carolina, so I have double the dislike for UGA. At Florida, y'all are affectionately known as the butt-lickers and leg-humpers.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Have you actually looked at the facts on all this? Let's look at some of the facts from Gurley's best college year (2014) and Barkley's best (2017). I will also preface this by saying the 2014 UGA offensive line was average at best. David Andrews was a great center but that's where the talent ended:

Team passing yards:
Georgia - 199.9 YPG
Penn State - 290.2 YPG

Team passing TDs:
Georgia - 1.8 per game
Penn State - 2.5 per game

Starting QBs:
Hutson Mason (UGA): 2168 pass. yards, 3 rushing yards, 24 Total TDs, 4 Int.
Trace McSorley (PSU): 3570 pass. yards, 491 rushing yards, 39 Total TDs, 10 Int.

Best WR:
Chris Conley (UGA): 36 receptions, 657 yards, 8 TDs.
Daeshon Hamilton (PSU): 53 receptions, 857 yards, 9 TDs.

So tell me again, who had the better supporting cast?

You proved my point even further. Penn State spreads the ball around more than most teams. They are loaded at receiver. It limited Barkleys touches. He is a great blocker too btw. He had to do it a lot. Barkley also caught a lot of passes. Your list leaves out Olinemen btw. Barkley was doing it with poor run blocking. Todd had good Olines.

Gurley has always been a very good receiving HB. He had 37 receptions for 441 receiving yards and 6 receiving TDs as a sophomore. That's why it was so weird that Fisher's bumbling boobs that he called OCs never used Gurley in the passing game.

I disagree. Saquon might grow to be a better HB than Gurley, as he has LaDainian Tomlinson-like potential, but he is not a better HB right now. Barkley is certainly talented, but Gurley is too. I'm happy with our guy. He was the NFL's best HB this year.

Barkley is as good a receiver as Gurley. I left that out. Barkley has more tools. Sure maybe Gurley is the better NFL back today, but I bet Barkley has a better rookie year than Gurley.

Not sure about all that, pard

You don't have to be. I have watched every one of Barkleys games and everyone of Gurleys NFL games and some of his college games. I know what I am talking about.



I figured a bunch of you guys would be butt hurt if a fellow Ram fan agrees with Kyper on this one (agrees with just about every single person who writes about draft prospects actually) But it is what it is. Be realistic. It's not like Gurley is the GOAT. There have been better backs in the NFL. Be realistic and take the fandom out of the equation.

 

[jrry32]

Barkley is as good a receiver as Gurley. I left that out. Barkley has more tools. Sure maybe Gurley is the better NFL back today, but I bet Barkley has a better rookie year than Gurley.

That's quite debatable. Even if we accept that as a fact, having more tools doesn't make you a better player.

As for whether Barkley will have a better rookie year, he better. Gurley was stuck playing for Fisher and his bumbling boobs, Cignetti and Boras.

I figured a bunch of you guys would be butt hurt if a fellow Ram fan agrees with Kyper on this one (agrees with just about every single person who writes about draft prospects actually) But it is what it is. Be realistic. It's not like Gurley is the GOAT. There have been better backs in the NFL. Be realistic and take the fandom out of the equation.

I watched Gurley a lot during college. He went top 10 in the NFL Draft as a HB coming off a torn ACL. If he were fully healthy, he would have been a top 5 pick in that draft. If a fully healthy Gurley and a fully healthy Barkley were in the same draft, they'd both be considered top 5 picks and equivalent prospects. It would be like the year Julio Jones and A.J. Green came out at WR.

It's sad that you're accusing Rams fans of being butthurt because they're pushing back against your belief. You're a Penn State fan. You shouldn't be throwing stones in your glass house.

Fact is that Gurley put up a MVP caliber year in his first year in the NFL with a strong offensive mind. Gurley was the best HB of 2017. Gurley might even have been the best offensive player of 2017. We shall see what Gurley does going forward, but you're going to have to realize that trying to elevate a draft prospect above Gurley after the year he just had is going to be quite difficult. Barkley may never become what Gurley is.

I think quite highly of Barkley, but then again, I thought quite highly of Trent Richardson. Sure things aren't always sure things. However, we know that Gurley is a sure thing. Maybe that biases our perception since we're using hindsight, but Gurley was always an incredible talent. In college, he was a big HB who could run through you, around you, and by you. He could catch passes, return kicks, and blow up blitzing LBs. He was an incredible talent.

We happen to know that his talent translated to the NFL. Gurley shredded a number of great defenses this year. McVay gave him a chance to shine, and he did. If Gurley continues to do what he's doing, he'll end up in Canton. Of course, we don't know if he'll continue, but we all hope he will.

 

[OldSchool]

 

[NateDawg122]

You proved my point even further. Penn State spreads the ball around more than most teams. They are loaded at receiver. It limited Barkleys touches. He is a great blocker too btw. He had to do it a lot. Barkley also caught a lot of passes. Your list leaves out Olinemen btw. Barkley was doing it with poor run blocking. Todd had good Olines.

Umm, how in the world did you come to that conclusion? Barkley had a lot more talent around him to keep defenses from focusing on him, which means he should have been more efficient than Gurley, but he wasn't. Penn State's passing game averaged almost 100 YPG more than UGA did in Gurley's junior year. Barkley also has McSorley, who is a threat to keep the ball and run with it. Everyone and their mother knew Todd was getting the ball, especially in 2014, and it just DID NOT MATTER.

In regards to the O-line, David Andrews was the only NFL talent on Georgia's squad. Also, Gurley was facing SEC defensive fronts almost every week, so I'd say the O-line argument is a wash. Go watch Todd's film from the 2012 SEC Championship Game. That Bama defense was one of the best of all time and Gurley just kept pounding them without much blocking help. And that was back when he was a freshman...

I'll say it again, Gurley never averaged less than 3.0 YPC in a game. Barkley had that happen three times in 2017 alone...

 

[HellRam]

Put it into perspective. Barkley ran behind a much weaker line than the lines that Georgia has had. Due to sanctions PSU is just now starting to field a quality Oline.

The offense each back ran out of was different. Barkley had no lead blockers and was closer to the LOS with the RPO offense. He was usually right next to the QB. He couldn’t build as much speed hitting the hole.

Barkley has been timed at 4.3 in the 40 on several attempts. He has more lateral movement than Gurley and breaks tackles better. His thighs are massive. So he has sharp cutting abilityStrength and speed.

Gurley is more of a speed back. He evades tacklers moreso than running through them or making stop and go cuts or jump cuts.

Barkley is a more complete back. He does it all. I am happy with Gurley but he is not better than Saquon.

I haven't seen a lot of Barkley, so I'm not going to say who's better. I do agree with your take on Gurley however. TG is a great back but he isn't the most diverse runner. Now what I have seen from Barkley is all around good runner. Not that Gurley isn't the same. But I can see how someone can see Barkley as the more complete runner. That's not a knock on Gurley either.

 

[NateDawg122]

I haven't seen a lot of Barkley, so I'm not going to say who's better. I do agree with your take on Gurley however. TG is a great back but he isn't the most diverse runner. Now what I have seen from Barkley is all around good runner. Not that Gurley isn't the same. But I can see how someone can see Barkley as the more complete runner. That's not a knock on Gurley either.

7.4 YPC > 5.9 YPC

I know that's not everything, but there is literally no basis to claim that Barkley is a better runner than Todd. If you want to say he's more well-rounded then that's whatever, but he's not a better runner.

 

[HellRam]

7.4 YPC > 5.9 YPC

I know that's not everything, but there is literally no basis to claim that Barkley is a better runner than Todd. If you want to say he's more well-rounded then that's whatever, but he's not a better runner.

I wouldn't go that far. It seems there's enough consensus in NFL circles that Barkley is worthy of the discussion. He definitely passes the eye ball test.

As for the YPC that's a tough one to judge in the college ranks. Nick Chubb for example averaged 6.3 ypc career at Georgia. We wouldn't say he is better then Barkley even though his ypc is better.

Who has the better NFL career, who knows. I do agree with the premise that Barkely may be more rounded all while not being a better rusher then Gurley. Time will tell...

 

[NateDawg122]

I wouldn't go that far. It seems there's enough consensus in NFL circles that Barkley is worthy of the discussion. He definitely passes the eye ball test.

As for fhe YPC that's a tough one to judge in the college ranks. Nick Chubb for example averaged 6.3 ypc career at Georgia. We wouldn't say he is better then Barkley even though his ypc is better.

Who has the better NFL career, who knows. I do agree with the premise that Barkely may be more rounded all while not being a better rusher then Gurley. Time will tell...

Before he shredded his knee, Chubb was considered almost as good as Todd. That knee injury took a lot out of him and he's never been the same. Just look at the production he put up before and after his injury, huge difference.

He's definitely not near as good as Barkley now, but that wasn't always the case. Chubb is still, pound for pound, the strongest RB in this class. He just doesn't have the speed and explosiveness anymore.

 

[NateDawg122]

I bet Barkley has a better rookie year than Gurley.

I would certainly hope so, because if he doesn't then your argument is in the shitter. Todd didn't play the whole year and was coming off a torn ACL. Oh, and he was being coached by buffoons.

 

[HellRam]

Before he shredded his knee, Chubb was considered almost as good as Todd. That knee injury took a lot out of him and he's never been the same. Just look at the production he put up before and after his injury, huge difference.

He's definitely not near as good as Barkley now, but that wasn't always the case. Chubb is still, pound for pound, the strongest RB in this class. He just doesn't have the speed and explosiveness anymore.

Fair points on Chubb. The production is definitely down after the injury.