Russian Troops Entering Ukraine

[RmsLegends]

The Kremlin couldn't care less about ethnic Russians. Did their puppet in the Crimea give them special access to resources, or perhaps there were some favorable economic deals in play that are now jeopardized?

By the way, my grandparents escaped from Latvia around 1910.

Oh it is a crazy story over there and one that ya go back deep into history to see how it all began and has just progressed. First with Slavs then with the pivotal role that Vikings had and it was from the Viking tribe Rus that we come to the name Russia. When ya follow the history ya can see how harshness and brutality has become a way of life and the people even approve of these mentality's in their leaders. Ya throw in a culture of corruption that has been present since way back when and mix it with brutal Czars and then don't miss a step when the Soviets take over and have brutal men like Stalin rise to power. Then ya have all that fall apart and free grab by anyone who is willing to use their nature of brutality and corruption to vie for the power vacuum in govt, business and what have ya. Then like something out of a James Bond novel ya find big name billionaires like George Sorros, involved with their money. Find ya have a new class of oligarchs mixed of old former KGB agents, intelligence agents and folks who have plenty self actualized ambitions. Ya stir all in a pot set it to stew and let it simmer and ya end up with modern Russia, Ukraine and other former Soviet satellite countries. It's a great read with many plots and twists and intrigue and a novel that can keep ya spellbound. However the thing is it is not a novel and actual reality and caught in the crossfire time and again are the people and citizens. Who time and again find they have cast their lot with the wrong person and so while the promise of plenty does come true for the oligarch the bread on the table of the working guy lacks yet once more.

While the notion of gladiator games is a thing of the past I think if it was brought back it could thrive over there with the cruel and brutal realities of the normal mans life as the harshness of those games in the arena would just be akin to the harsh realities the normal citizen faces everyday. A couple years back I was reading on a study of sexual harassment here in our country and ran across a link about it in Russia so figured heck I will just read this real quick. It was staggering what I read how Russian women had more of a that is just business as usual vs the the audacity of it that American women would have. An what was even more telling was the percentage of Russian women that said yea I have slept with my boss to keep my job or get a job and even how the courts would further victimize the woman and tell her it was her fault if she sought a redress of grievance. An what is crazy is just this year April 15th to be exact Russia has finally proposed it's first ever sexual harassment law.

So anyway when ya look at how business is done and has been done there it can be said whatever is the true driving force behind all this is based in some sort of corruption, underhandedness and some oligarchs sure will profit from it.

Now that I have digressed, I do believe Putin is a man who studies and understands history when it comes to Russia. So he knows of how when Russia was attempting to become a world power and rival European powers. He knows of the history and is aware of it and so he knows how Peter the Great searched high and low for a warm water port in it's expansion and in it's quest to rival those in Europe. He is aware that it's warm water port was found and built in the Crimea. Under a pro Russian president like Yanukovych perhaps he did not find it ideal that his warm water port was now a leased base from the Ukraine, but since the Ukrainian president leaned his way it was liveable. However with the ousting of Yanukovych and Ukrainian voting set for I believe the 17th of this month he figured he was faced with a choice one that can be reconciled in the words of Winston Churchill.

A story I love about Churchill is one during the bleak hours of the war when all of Britain's allies had fallen to the roar of the Nazi war machine when Britain itself had escaped the same fate by evacuating Dunkirk and the fact if the had not they would have been destroyed and Churchill said concerning Dunkirk it was "a colossal military disaster". So London is being bombed and the fate of the land relies upon their air power. So in these bleak days and the future uncertain a reporter had asked Churchill how he felt about this happening under him. He replied back I believe I was born for such a time as this.

So I think Putin in his ego believes so about himself. I think he believes he was born and destined and it is fueled by his ever growing ego as lets face it how many world leaders time and again opt to have PR pics taken of them while they are shirtless...............LOL

He knowing as a student of his countries history knows of Catherine and Peter and others. He knows Catherine referred to the area as New Russia so he does likewise, he knows the search for a warm water port was found in the Crimea so he takes back the Crimea. He sees himself as a man of destiny and is in the process of writing his history in the Russian history books for future generations to read. While it is always more complex than any one thing to deny that his knowledge of history mixed with his ego and ambitions is a driving force, to deny this plays a pivotal role is a denial that he has no qualms to build a monument to himself laid on the foundations of bodies set next to a fountain of blood.

Way cool your grandparents came over from Latvia that is awesome

 

[Stranger]

He knowing as a student of his countries history knows of Catherine and Peter and others. He knows Catherine referred to the area as New Russia so he does likewise, he knows the search for a warm water port was found in the Crimea so he takes back the Crimea. He sees himself as a man of destiny and is in the process of writing his history in the Russian history books for future generations to read. While it is always more complex than any one thing to deny that his knowledge of history mixed with his ego and ambitions is a driving force, to deny this plays a pivotal role is a denial that he has no qualms to build a monument to himself laid on the foundations of bodies set next to a fountain of blood.

Way cool your grandparents came over from Latvia that is awesome

Continued access to a warm weather port makes a lot of sense. Any idea what goods are trafficked through that port, and which of the Oligarch's benefit from this traffic? Also, is the port a big transfer point for incoming drugs?

PS. I have a copy of family photo done in about 1895 in Latvia - I think my grandmother looks to be about 7yrs old in the photo. It's very cool.

 

[RmsLegends]

Continued access to a warm weather port makes a lot of sense. Any idea what goods are trafficked through that port, and which of the Oligarch's benefit from this traffic? Also, is the port a big transfer point for incoming drugs?

PS. I have a copy of family photo done in about 1895 in Latvia - I think my grandmother looks to be about 7yrs old in the photo. It's very cool.

The Black Sea is really almost mystical in the Russian pysche and to understand ya have to really live around it. I was opportuned as such during the later 80's during the cold war. I was a clandestine serviceman and it was no secret Russia considered the Black Sea their backyard and was a hub of activity for any new naval weapons systems or platforms and much of their RD came out of Sevasotpol and so much of their new cutting edge tech came out of and was tested in the area as the Black Sea offered more privacy than it's two larger bases Vladivostok in the Pac and Severomorsk in the Lant. An concerning Severomorsk, Clinton during his years did openly admit to the Russians during the time to garner better relations. That during the cold war we had become aware of a communications trunk line running from Moscow to Severomorsk down on the waters bottom and openly admitted to them. That we would take a sub and some clandestine types dive on down and we had cut into the trunk line and wired it to underwater recording devices so we would record and monitor all communications going from Moscow to their fleet HQ and our guys would dive down and retrieve the previous recorders left and install new ones to be retrieved again later.

So Russia had it confirmed to them at least in one aspect the vulnerability of it's bases outside of the Black Sea. The Black Sea there is only one way in and one way out and that is through the straits so ya are less vulnerable as ya can drop some MAD gear and hydrophones and due to the narrow of the straits ya know who is coming in and who is leaving. The Black Sea at it's deepest depth is also only around 7,250 feet so more ideal conditions if ya want to fly a Hormone Helo out and do some dipping sonar ops or towed array to find out if any prying eyes are in the water.

So they have always considered the Black Sea their backyard and gave them more ideal privacy from a military standpoint an while the base for years was not what it once was in recent time there is no denial the Russians have began to move more ships and subs to the Black Sea and update what they already have their. An just like in the cold war last month when we had a naval combatant in the Black Sea the Russians did like we both did during the cold war they flew multiple close passes near to the ship and I believe they did so for about a hour and half. So from their standpoint I can see where they are claiming the Black Sea as their backyard once again.

Economical I must confess I have no numbers off the top of my head what in turns of fiscal gain in Rubbles comes from that port area. I do know that back some years ago they started a pipeline to service Bulgaria, Italy and other European nations that there now current pipelines don't run to. An the pipeline project was called South Stream and was set to run straight across the Black Sea from Russia just above Georgia to Bulgaria and splinter from there. As far as hard numbers I don't have any without looking them up so I can't really say. However it is not hard to see that Russia has always considered the Black Sea their own personal playground an if a non pro Ukrainian president was elected maybe this could cause problems. As if I recall at one point one of the problems with the pipeline was Russia and the Ukraine were in dispute as the Ukraines saw part of the water it was gonna run through as theirs or it was to close to their claimed waters or something along those lines if my memory don't fail me.

So anyway yea so many other stories and things I could go on about from my own personal experiences when I lived right on the shores of the Black Sea, but all they would say is the same thing that the Russians have a affinity to the Black Sea and do feel connected to it and consider it theirs. An is ever important in both their pysch and actual monetary gains.

As far as to who might directly gain from this I would have to look up the folks who have put private money into this both Russian and wealthy men of other nationalities. As many times such as in our country or western countries when ya have a public project ya auction off security debts such as T-Notes or T-Bills and the like as well as other western countries do this as well with their individual secured debt. In Russia ya have had a lot of private finance for a state project such as this billionaire or that minister or some private individual front the initial cost and then reap the harvest of profits. Unlike a secured debt the amount of profit or how that profit is figured as it is not as transparent. We do know recently a 15 billion dollar loan was turned down by the former Ukrainian president from the EU in favor of a 15 billion dollar loan from Putin, with the kicker if the Ukraine took it they would also sell natural gas to them at a discount and it also mentioned the term of extended time and the currency the payments were to be made in. However these are really the only known terms of the loan as it was behind closed doors and the other details have not been made known.

So whatever concessions were made no one knows as Putin did say it was only a temp solution and “The long-term agreements must and will be achieved. This concerns both the supplies of gas to Ukraine, and uninterrupted transit of Russian gas to the European consumers,” So whatever concessions were given we have no idea at this time.

It is also speculated the temp change in price that Russia will supply the Ukraine with is a move to thwart the pro-European move the Ukraine came close to doing by signing a trade and political deal with the EU. President Yanukovych had also said during the signing of the agreement......“We will have to learn our lessons for the future and not repeat such mistakes,” So what these two were talking about concerning the details of the agreement and what was planned no one really knows and can only speculate. Both nations did after the signing lift anti-dumping measures that was enacted towards the other. So no one really knows what the specifics of the deal were and such. An so at this time it is hard to see who exactly profits or what kind of gains there will be for the yet unknown players involved in the various aspects, but I am quite sure there will be money to have and power as well or would have as the removal of Yanukovych, sure sent Putin into the Crimea rather fast and now he claims he is doing so for the cause of the ethnic Russians.

As far as incoming drugs I really have to say I have no clue since the 90's now I have not really kept abreast of the international drug trade as at that time once the Soviet Union had fallen and the Gulf War was over in the vacuum some of us assets were used to fight the international drug trade, however it was for specified periods of time as I can't get into details, but there was reason to believe we could be compromised and targeted by less than happy folks of the drug trade. So I really would have no clue bro and any info I would have would just be from a online search as to how this might play out in the case of the drug trade in the Black Sea.

Way cool on the pic I always get such a feeling of nostalgia when I look at old black and white photos from earlier time periods that is way cool and awesome

 

[Stranger]

This is fascinating material.... thank you for posting. One can start to see the underlying interests at play here, and I'm sure Putin is concerned about his $15B loan in the hands of new leadership. The picture is becoming much more clear as to why Putin my re-insert friendly leadership, especially with the criticality of the military ops.

So freaking sad to hear about Clinton giving away such strategically important intel. Was there ever a stated rationale for this breach, or was the story just buried. I must admit, I wasn't aware that he had done this, but given his global ties and real interests, it doesn't suprise me in the least.

 

[Tailback]

I was stationed in Istanbul in the late 80's while in the Army. Our job was to close the Bosphorus Strait to the Russian Black Sea Fleet using "exotic" munitions. This Crimean situation is absurdly complicated. Having been in the military for over 20 years along with being an amateur historian, I can't make heads or tails of what's going on over there.

I can boil it down to this. Since the European "Green" movement was just communists rebranding themselves, they have enabled Russia by trying to eliminate coal and nuclear power. The result of this is that unless Europe wants to freeze to death, they need Russian natural gas. The pipeline runs through Ukraine. The Crimean Peninsula has been home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet for hundreds of years. Russia WILL NOT allow Crimea to take away their naval ports. Russia WILL NOT allow the Ukraine to threaten their natural gas pipeline that has all of Europe by the little curly hairs. Now throw into this that the ethnic Ukrainians HATE Russians for killing more of them in Stalin's planned famine than Hiltler killed Jews. Add into this that the next country West of Ukraine is Poland and the Poles hate Russians like the white hot heat of a thousand burning suns. Now add in the Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) that hate the Russians. Mr. KGB Colonel Vlad may have written a check his ass can't cash. Problem is that Obama is such a bleeping idiot on foreign policy, there's a complete leadership vacuum going on.

 

[Stranger]

I was stationed in Istanbul in the late 80's while in the Army. Our job was to close the Bosphorus Strait to the Russian Black Sea Fleet using "exotic" munitions. This Crimean situation is absurdly complicated. Having been in the military for over 20 years along with being an amateur historian, I can't make heads or tails of what's going on over there.

I can boil it down to this. Since the European "Green" movement was just communists rebranding themselves, they have enabled Russia by trying to eliminate coal and nuclear power. The result of this is that unless Europe wants to freeze to death, they need Russian natural gas. The pipeline runs through Ukraine. The Crimean Peninsula has been home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet for hundreds of years. Russia WILL NOT allow Crimea to take away their naval ports. Russia WILL NOT allow the Ukraine to threaten their natural gas pipeline that has all of Europe by the little curly hairs. Now throw into this that the ethnic Ukrainians HATE Russians for killing more of them in Stalin's planned famine than Hiltler killed Jews. Add into this that the next country West of Ukraine is Poland and the Poles hate Russians like the white hot heat of a thousand burning suns. Now add in the Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) that hate the Russians. Mr. KGB Colonel Vlad may have written a check his ass can't cash. Problem is that Obama is such a bleeping idiot on foreign policy, there's a complete leadership vacuum going on.

Great material and insights. The key motives are certainly becoming more clear.

Your insight that the Greenies are just Commies rebranded is perhaps one of the most telling insights i've seen distilled into a single sentence. For anyone not braindead by the global mass media, this demonstrates very clearly that the forces behind the commies have the same interests as the forces behind the Greenies. The only thing that has changed is the name and the techniques. I'm surprised that they haven't targeted natural gas yet, cause the ultimate problem is not the energy sources, but humanity itself - at least that's what the greenies underlying message is.

 

[Tailback]

The Communist party was outlawed in West Germany back in the days of BRD and DDR. The Baader-Meinhof gang (aka Red Army Faction) was a bunch of communist terrorists that conducted bombings and other various terrorist activities(similar to Obamas mentor and ghost writer Bill Ayers) in West Germany. The German Green Party was started by former RAF members as a way to get around West German anti communist laws.

 

[Stranger]

The Communist party was outlawed in West Germany back in the days of BRD and DDR. The Baader-Meinhof gang (aka Red Army Faction) was a bunch of communist terrorists that conducted bombings and other various terrorist activities(similar to Obamas mentor and ghost writer Bill Ayers) in West Germany. The German Green Party was started by former RAF members as a way to get around West German anti communist laws.

Thanks for the background detail.

The interests behind the scenes never change, just it's face. And the public gets ying-yanged over and over and over again.

Energy scarcity is just one of the latest weapons against the public. Watch this escapade go-on for years as poor europeans freeze to death and the media blames the public for irresponsibly having babies and overpopulating the planet. Hence we deserve what we get.

So, could it be possible that the Obama "leadership vacuum" is intentional - deliberately setup to prolong the skirmish and allow europeans to suffer? I mean, you already know that these same interests are driving the Obama-show as are behind the European Greenie-show. Ayers isn't there by accident.

 

[Tailback]

So, could it be possible that the Obama "leadership vacuum" is intentional - deliberately setup to prolong the skirmish and allow europeans to suffer? I mean, you already know that these same interests are driving the Obama-show as are behind the European Greenie-show. Ayers isn't there by accident.

Of course it's intentional. Don't you remember the open mike "I'll have more flexibility after the election" with the Russian President at the time Medvedyev?

 

[Stranger]

So, could it be possible that the Obama "leadership vacuum" is intentional - deliberately setup to prolong the skirmish and allow europeans to suffer? I mean, you already know that these same interests are driving the Obama-show as are behind the European Greenie-show. Ayers isn't there by accident.

Of course it's intentional. Don't you remember the open mike "I'll have more flexibility after the election" with the Russian President at the time Medvedyev?

Oh, I stopped listening to the media about 10yrs ago. I figure I'm better off reading books, white papers and just figuring stuff out by myself, or thru talks with other people I trust. I actually didn't know about this. Thanks for sharing. Okay, well it make total sense now.

PS. I just love how people totally ignored the fact that both Clinton's spent so much time in the Soviet Union being "educated" when they were young.

 

[Tailback]

 

[RmsLegends]

I was stationed in Istanbul in the late 80's while in the Army. Our job was to close the Bosphorus Strait to the Russian Black Sea Fleet using "exotic" munitions. This Crimean situation is absurdly complicated. Having been in the military for over 20 years along with being an amateur historian, I can't make heads or tails of what's going on over there.

Istanbul was a great city when ya love history to have history feel like it came alive and really happened. Loving ancient history I can still remember how it felt to look out and see the old walls and just have that feel of wow Greece, Rome, Byzantine and the Ottomans were all here and then to walk it. An the historic sights as well as the grand bazar was a experience compared to shopping back in the states. It was my first trip in the service outta the states and I have to say loving history it was not a bad draw. I did not have the privilege to actual be stationed in Istanbul as I was further north east up on the Black Sea, but I sure did enjoy when I got a chance to get some time down and went and spent my days off down in Istanbul good times for sure.

 

[bluecoconuts]

The Communist party was outlawed in West Germany back in the days of BRD and DDR. The Baader-Meinhof gang (aka Red Army Faction) was a bunch of communist terrorists that conducted bombings and other various terrorist activities(similar to Obamas mentor and ghost writer Bill Ayers) in West Germany. The German Green Party was started by former RAF members as a way to get around West German anti communist laws.

Banned by name only, the Labour and Social Justice – The Electoral Alternative is their current "communist" party. Gone through a few different changes, but the core ideals remain.

So, could it be possible that the Obama "leadership vacuum" is intentional - deliberately setup to prolong the skirmish and allow europeans to suffer? I mean, you already know that these same interests are driving the Obama-show as are behind the European Greenie-show. Ayers isn't there by accident.

Of course it's intentional. Don't you remember the open mike "I'll have more flexibility after the election" with the Russian President at the time Medvedyev?

An out of context quote doesn't do much for me, for all we know he was saying he'll have more flexibility to stick more donuts in the UN conference room.

 

[Ramhusker]

Banned by name only, the Labour and Social Justice – The Electoral Alternative is their current "communist" party. Gone through a few different changes, but the core ideals remain.



An out of context quote doesn't do much for me, for all we know he was saying he'll have more flexibility to stick more donuts in the UN conference room.

That was probably it bro!

 

[Tailback]

Istanbul was a great city when ya love history to have history feel like it came alive and really happened. Loving ancient history I can still remember how it felt to look out and see the old walls and just have that feel of wow Greece, Rome, Byzantine and the Ottomans were all here and then to walk it. An the historic sights as well as the grand bazar was a experience compared to shopping back in the states. It was my first trip in the service outta the states and I have to say loving history it was not a bad draw. I did not have the privilege to actual be stationed in Istanbul as I was further north east up on the Black Sea, but I sure did enjoy when I got a chance to get some time down and went and spent my days off down in Istanbul good times for sure.

Were you @ Sinop? Yeah being stationed there was pretty incredible. Got to travel down to Ephesus and some other biblical locations. I should have extended there but wanted to see Germany also.

 

[Ramhusker]

The Kremlin couldn't care less about ethnic Russians. Did their puppet in the Crimea give them special access to resources, or perhaps there were some favorable economic deals in play that are now jeopardized?

By the way, my grandparents escaped from Latvia around 1910.

Yeah, I wouldn't get fooled into thinking Putin is a "people person"! :shades:

 

[RmsLegends]

Were you @ Sinop? Yeah being stationed there was pretty incredible. Got to travel down to Ephesus and some other biblical locations. I should have extended there but wanted to see Germany also.

Yea I was up at Sinop. It was awesome the places ya could go see. Did the Chaplain's office down at your base have the I guess call it the trips program where every month or something like that the Chaplains office for MWR would sponsor a trip and they would pay half the cost and take trips to like ya said biblical locations such as the 7 churches, Israel and locations as such?

I used to love the places ya could go see on your down time and heck just take one of their buses and was so cheap to do so and since so cheap I would always pay for my seat and the one next to me so I could stretch out and relax on my trips and the price just always shocked me I don't recall now what it was but like I think 10 or 20 bucks to buy both seats or maybe just a tad over 20 but the price was unbelievably cheap. So I would get a pass and hit a bus and just go all over down to Istanbul, Samsun, Izmir, Ankara and anywhere with names of towns I have forgot now over the years. On of these trips I decided to go to the eastern border area and anyway I had my two seats and my old walkman on and had doozed of an kind of woke up when the bus had stopped and the bus driver spoke to everyone in Turkish which I had no clue what he was saying as my extent of Turkish was only good enough to order a effes and a doner kabob. So everyone piles off and I stay and turn to go back to sleep. When these four Turkish soldiers get on the bus and point their weapons at me and walk on back to me and begin to speak to me in Turkish so I raised my hands up and begin to just say American soldier, American soldier. So I really slow and man real slow stand up and reach back for my wallet and pull out my military ID. An hand it to the guy who looked in charge and he smiled and said something to the others so they dropped their weapons on me and he starts to talk to me in English. So it turned out they had reports that some Irianians had snuck over the border so they were stopping buses and cars and checking for the possible guys who had jumped the border. I will admit though when it first was going down all I could think is I am gonna get shot or be thrown in jail and my Command will never even have a clue what happened to me............LOL

So yeah I was one of the special intel naval spooks they had operating out of Sinop back then I was there in 87 and 88.

 

[Tailback]

How funny, I was @ Cakmakli 87-88. Yes the trip I was on was the 7 churches tour with our Chaplain. I was scheduled to go to Israel also but the trip got cancelled last second. Had a similar experience at a Turkish army checkpoint where the Gendarmes were checking us out. We had what we called "Get out of jail free cards" that were issued to us. We pulled those out and the Gendarmes attitude immediately improved.

Bir tane Efes ve lahmacun lutfen.

 

[Stranger]

Yea I was up at Sinop. It was awesome the places ya could go see. Did the Chaplain's office down at your base have the I guess call it the trips program where every month or something like that the Chaplains office for MWR would sponsor a trip and they would pay half the cost and take trips to like ya said biblical locations such as the 7 churches, Israel and locations as such?

I used to love the places ya could go see on your down time and heck just take one of their buses and was so cheap to do so and since so cheap I would always pay for my seat and the one next to me so I could stretch out and relax on my trips and the price just always shocked me I don't recall now what it was but like I think 10 or 20 bucks to buy both seats or maybe just a tad over 20 but the price was unbelievably cheap. So I would get a pass and hit a bus and just go all over down to Istanbul, Samsun, Izmir, Ankara and anywhere with names of towns I have forgot now over the years. On of these trips I decided to go to the eastern border area and anyway I had my two seats and my old walkman on and had doozed of an kind of woke up when the bus had stopped and the bus driver spoke to everyone in Turkish which I had no clue what he was saying as my extent of Turkish was only good enough to order a effes and a doner kabob. So everyone piles off and I stay and turn to go back to sleep. When these four Turkish soldiers get on the bus and point their weapons at me and walk on back to me and begin to speak to me in Turkish so I raised my hands up and begin to just say American soldier, American soldier. So I really slow and man real slow stand up and reach back for my wallet and pull out my military ID. An hand it to the guy who looked in charge and he smiled and said something to the others so they dropped their weapons on me and he starts to talk to me in English. So it turned out they had reports that some Irianians had snuck over the border so they were stopping buses and cars and checking for the possible guys who had jumped the border. I will admit though when it first was going down all I could think is I am gonna get shot or be thrown in jail and my Command will never even have a clue what happened to me............LOL

So yeah I was one of the special intel naval spooks they had operating out of Sinop back then I was there in 87 and 88.

Sinop?

 

[bluecoconuts]

Sinop?

It's in Turkey, northern, almost right in the middle, right on the coast of the Black Sea. Army used to have a base there during the cold war, it closed in the early 90's