Reopening Old Wounds: More proof that the Patriots were cheating

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wolfdogg

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You wouldn't have to have the refs "in" on it and there would be no need for a grand conspiracy.

At the time, Roger Goodell was in charge of the refs, he could simply tell the crew chief that fans don't want to see a superbowl decided by a questionable penalty, so let them play more than you normally would.

The refs wouldn't have a problem with that as it wouldn't seem to favor either team and because no official wants to be that guy who calls a questionable foul which may cost a team the lombardi.

What would give the advantage to new England would be Goodell then going to his buddy, kraft, and telling him that the refs will let the players "play" (wink, wink).

So right off the bat the patriots are pushing the bar and even surpassing it while the rams are still trying to play penalty free ball. It's that simple
 

JonRam99

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Cheating damages the integrity of any system. It can have long lasting effects, as evidenced by the fact we're still hurt by it 20 years later. It has cast a shadow on every one of the Patriot's SB wins (and appearances) as well as TB's and BB's two-decades long legacy.
I still wonder if the NFL gets it's cues from the WWE on how to ensure an entertaining game, because destroying the evidence only says they really don't care about it either.
But, the question remains:
Does anyone here actually care about cheating? If it was the Rams caught cheating, would we just say "hey if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin"?? I posted a poll about this that got very little participation.
 

1maGoh

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Cheating damages the integrity of any system. It can have long lasting effects, as evidenced by the fact we're still hurt by it 20 years later. It has cast a shadow on every one of the Patriot's SB wins (and appearances) as well as TB's and BB's two-decades long legacy.
I still wonder if the NFL gets it's cues from the WWE on how to ensure an entertaining game, because destroying the evidence only says they really don't care about it either.
But, the question remains:
Does anyone here actually care about cheating? If it was the Rams caught cheating, would we just say "hey if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin"?? I posted a poll about this that got very little participation.
I wouldn't stop being a fan, but I'd feel shitty about whatever we won by cheating. I definitely wouldn't feel proud about it.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Cheating damages the integrity of any system. It can have long lasting effects, as evidenced by the fact we're still hurt by it 20 years later. It has cast a shadow on every one of the Patriot's SB wins (and appearances) as well as TB's and BB's two-decades long legacy.
I still wonder if the NFL gets it's cues from the WWE on how to ensure an entertaining game, because destroying the evidence only says they really don't care about it either.
But, the question remains:
Does anyone here actually care about cheating? If it was the Rams caught cheating, would we just say "hey if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin"?? I posted a poll about this that got very little participation.
I wouldn’t like it and would have had less desire to watch my team. I have no respect for Patriot fans or any coach or player involved in their era of cheating.

If you think about it legally they knowingly participated in theft. There are bonuses that come with winning the Super Bowl. Plus lifelong notoriety that comes with SB MVP or even in season awards. The Patriots cheated for entire seasons. League MVP’s, OPY, DPY, All Pro.

By evidence of the OP the Broncos players thought they were great at 6-0. They quickly found out that they weren’t. So others likely thought the same. Just like many people calling Brady the GOAT. He will never be that to me. The reputation he’s built has lead to endorsements and such. It’s robbery. It’s disgusting.

I feel the same way about the Astros. Altuve got MVP. He narrowly beat out Aaron Judge. Judge may never have another opportunity to win that award and despite being a good player Altuve’s stats were padded by cheating. That has a life long result that will/ can never be repaired.
 

Mackeyser

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Cheating damages the integrity of any system. It can have long lasting effects, as evidenced by the fact we're still hurt by it 20 years later. It has cast a shadow on every one of the Patriot's SB wins (and appearances) as well as TB's and BB's two-decades long legacy.
I still wonder if the NFL gets it's cues from the WWE on how to ensure an entertaining game, because destroying the evidence only says they really don't care about it either.
But, the question remains:
Does anyone here actually care about cheating? If it was the Rams caught cheating, would we just say "hey if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin"?? I posted a poll about this that got very little participation.

I care. If the Rams cheated I’d be hard pressed to support them anymore. It’d be a violation of trust with the fans.

But yeah, a lot of fans would likely just point at the Pats and say everyone cheats and that’d be that.
 

London59

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The big question is why the NFL covered it up. Literally deleted/destroyed the tape in question. Want to end the scandal? Show the videos he shot that day. Instead they destroy them? Come on.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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The big question is why the NFL covered it up. Literally deleted/destroyed the tape in question. Want to end the scandal? Show the videos he shot that day. Instead they destroy them? Come on.
It could be several things, but that would be black eye on Patriotism. I know it was a few years later but it brought into question possibly years of cheating. All the way back to the the Patriots first, improbable and most patriotic triumph. Super bowls won and money distributed, it opens an even bigger can of worms to undo that stuff. Its harder to strip a championship and award it to another team, that nobody can be certain would have won those games either. Plus burning the tapes helped Goodell legitimize the Patriot victories from other years by claiming it wasn't that bad.

From a non Patriot fan's view banning Belichick from the league would have been the best thing Goodell could have done to restore complete faith in the validity of the league. But, he is Kraft's buddy and he'd also risk Belichick retaliating if Bill had any dirt on the league fixing outcomes. There was a long period in the NFL where its not difficult to identify such activity. I think it coincided with Kraft and his negotiating of the record TV contracts. Besides that Robert Kraft was a key figure in many NFL business dealings. He was the leader of the owners and was instrumental in exploiting the product. He made owners much richer because he made the league more profitable.

Leaving things slide had another positive outcome. It created more hatred for the Patriots. Just like the Yankees in baseball, people loved to hate them. So even if fans didn't have a team to root for in the Superbowl or playoffs, they tuned in to root against New England. More viewers equal happy networks. Every time Brady and Belichick were lauded for their greatness it was like throwing fuel on the fire. ESPN needs the NFL and NFL network is the NFL. They just helped sell it all. In the end its all about money.
 

XXXIVwin

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It could be several things, but that would be black eye on Patriotism. I know it was a few years later but it brought into question possibly years of cheating. All the way back to the the Patriots first, improbable and most patriotic triumph. Super bowls won and money distributed, it opens an even bigger can of worms to undo that stuff. Its harder to strip a championship and award it to another team, that nobody can be certain would have won those games either. Plus burning the tapes helped Goodell legitimize the Patriot victories from other years by claiming it wasn't that bad.

From a non Patriot fan's view banning Belichick from the league would have been the best thing Goodell could have done to restore complete faith in the validity of the league. But, he is Kraft's buddy and he'd also risk Belichick retaliating if Bill had any dirt on the league fixing outcomes. There was a long period in the NFL where its not difficult to identify such activity. I think it coincided with Kraft and his negotiating of the record TV contracts. Besides that Robert Kraft was a key figure in many NFL business dealings. He was the leader of the owners and was instrumental in exploiting the product. He made owners much richer because he made the league more profitable.

Leaving things slide had another positive outcome. It created more hatred for the Patriots. Just like the Yankees in baseball, people loved to hate them. So even if fans didn't have a team to root for in the Superbowl or playoffs, they tuned in to root against New England. More viewers equal happy networks. Every time Brady and Belichick were lauded for their greatness it was like throwing fuel on the fire. ESPN needs the NFL and NFL network is the NFL. They just helped sell it all. In the end its all about money.
Only problem with this theory is that I have seen no evidence that the Pats get statistically significant higher ratings than other teams. Super Bowl ratings are shockingly stable, regardless of the teams. And even within that narrow range, the last Super Bowl the Pats won (against our Rams) had comparatively low ratings.

Do the Cowboys get consistent, slightly higher ratings than most other teams? Yes, they do, I've seen evidence of that, over many years. But not for the Pats.

So there's just one big hole in the theory that "the NFL favors the Pats for money and profit": a lack of evidence that shows the Pats get noticeably higher TV ratings than other teams. And no, I can't just take the "everybody loves hating the Pats" slogan as proof of anything. One could just as easily argue that many people got bored of the Pats and would have preferred fresh storylines instead.
 

Elmgrovegnome

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Only problem with this theory is that I have seen no evidence that the Pats get statistically significant higher ratings than other teams. Super Bowl ratings are shockingly stable, regardless of the teams. And even within that narrow range, the last Super Bowl the Pats won (against our Rams) had comparatively low ratings.

Do the Cowboys get consistent, slightly higher ratings than most other teams? Yes, they do, I've seen evidence of that, over many years. But not for the Pats.

So there's just one big hole in the theory that "the NFL favors the Pats for money and profit": a lack of evidence that shows the Pats get noticeably higher TV ratings than other teams. And no, I can't just take the "everybody loves hating the Pats" slogan as proof of anything. One could just as easily argue that many people got bored of the Pats and would have preferred fresh storylines instead.
You missed the entire rest of the reason. Gotta read it all
 

JonRam99

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Great posts everyone. I agree that Goodell & the NFL sacrificed the integrity of "the Shield" to appease Kraft. Probably a no-win situation for them. Owners have been forced to sell teams before, due to malfeasance & damage to the integrity of the sport, but I doubt it would happen to Kraft, as he has not only been caught (directly or indirectly) cheating the sport, but also been caught at a "massage parlor" where there's likely sex-trafficked women, in the midst of the "me too" era; so, it would have to be something really bad to force him to sell the Patties.
 

ozarkram

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The NFL is entertainment. Allowing them (the league) to have any outcome and or story line they want. Just like professional wrestling. I don't believe there is a meeting year to year saying OK these two teams will be in the SB and this team will win. I do believe games and playoffs are manipulated by using the refs to follow what ever is the hot story line at the moment. Its a hard pill to take at least for me. What are some of the hot story lines this year? Rodgers has pissed off the league, The Rams have a shiny new stadium and have brought in lots of dough, Joe Burrows, The Bills are due, 49ers suck ass, everyone is tired of Brady. I still believe most of the players are top athletes and give 100% all the time. But the refs can easily over come this for the desired result. Follow the money. And I have plenty of tin foil hats if any are needed. Go Rams!
 

Steve808

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Only problem with this theory is that I have seen no evidence that the Pats get statistically significant higher ratings than other teams. Super Bowl ratings are shockingly stable, regardless of the teams. And even within that narrow range, the last Super Bowl the Pats won (against our Rams) had comparatively low ratings.

Do the Cowboys get consistent, slightly higher ratings than most other teams? Yes, they do, I've seen evidence of that, over many years. But not for the Pats.

So there's just one big hole in the theory that "the NFL favors the Pats for money and profit": a lack of evidence that shows the Pats get noticeably higher TV ratings than other teams. And no, I can't just take the "everybody loves hating the Pats" slogan as proof of anything. One could just as easily argue that many people got bored of the Pats and would have preferred fresh storylines instead.
There were some significant "fumble" stats in favor of the cheatriots when the deflategate incident allegedly happened.
 

Steve808

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The NFL is entertainment. Allowing them (the league) to have any outcome and or story line they want. Just like professional wrestling. I don't believe there is a meeting year to year saying OK these two teams will be in the SB and this team will win. I do believe games and playoffs are manipulated by using the refs to follow what ever is the hot story line at the moment. Its a hard pill to take at least for me. What are some of the hot story lines this year? Rodgers has pissed off the league, The Rams have a shiny new stadium and have brought in lots of dough, Joe Burrows, The Bills are due, 49ers suck ass, everyone is tired of Brady. I still believe most of the players are top athletes and give 100% all the time. But the refs can easily over come this for the desired result. Follow the money. And I have plenty of tin foil hats if any are needed. Go Rams!
I agree. To some degree, if I were a ref, I could make sure that the Rams win the super bowl. I would call holding on the offense every single time AD or Floyd or Miller actually gets held. Seems like the Rams get flagged for holding frequently.