Really Long---2020: looking forward a bit

[BC Ramfan]

MO LB: Young - He hasn't played except on ST's. He has the speed and talent to be a good ILB. This redshirt year should serve him well to strengthen, and improve his technique. IMO he will be the starter at this position next year.

Nice optimistic long-term overview.
Assume you mean Howard at ILB

BC

 

[PhillyRam]

Where does it say his signing bonus is to be pro-rated into his 2019 CAP and not into the whole of his newly extended contract beginning in 2020 ?

Well, he can't get a "signing bonus" and not have it count partially towards this year. Otherwise it would be called a roster bonus to be paid next year at the start of the league year in March. He can't receive any compensation now without it being factored into the current cap.

And since they have $13M in cap room they would be delinquent not to give him a signing bonus as it allows them to spread out that bonus over an extra year which can save them that prorated bonus number over the length of the contract.

 

[PhillyRam]

Looking at the roster right now, with no trades or even the draft they have their starters at every position on the roster right now. This is why trading for Ramsey was the final piece and better than any player they could have drafted in their projected first round slot.

OFFENSE

LT: Noteboom - Played well at the position in 2018. Has all the traits you want in a starter at the position. His struggles this year were IMO due to his playing a position he had never played. Being held out of preseason only exacerbated the issue. I foresee no problem having him take over for Whitworth who is clearly showing his age and won't be extended.

LG: Corbett - Has played well overall at the position so far. A solid trade to get a starter at LG for a 5th round pick. Regarded as a solid low first round to high second round talent in the 2018 draft.

C: Allen - He outplayed Sullivan before his injury. I expect him to continue that upward trend upon his return. He has the talent to be a solid center, the kind of journeyman player every team needs.

RG: Evans - He's playing out of position at this level at RT. The Rams should learn from Havenstein what happens when you do that. He's built like a OG not an NFL OT. This experience will serve him well overall. But because of Havenstein's contract don't be surprised if he moves inside to RG at least for the 2020 season. He also might move to RG if he returns to play this year. If Rob moves into RG expect Evans to be the game day swing reserve.

RT: Edwards: His natural position is OT and the Rams know it. He played very limited snaps in practice during TC at OG. As I posted in another thread I looked at him as Havensteins replacement in 2021. But Havenstein's struggles and Edwards play at RG simply means that time has come now. Edwards came in relatively unpolished compared to the other o-line rookies. But by next year I would expect him to have strengthened and improved his technique.

QB: Goff & Wolford - Goff has played better than most give him credit for. He has shown if he has a decent o-line in front of him he can be extremely dangerous. He's been improving every year under McVay's system and I see it even this year. Wolford looked good in his play this preseason. I don't expect Bortles to stay another year, but he might and I think he should. Bortles has the talent to be a good starting QB on the right team in the right system.

RB: Gurley & Henderson - Gurley is a very good RB and he will return to the guy we saw in 2018 and continue to see in flashes this year. Like Goff he simply needs good o-line play to make it work. The change to a gap blocking scheme has improved the running game tremendously from what it was early this year. As the o-line continues to improve, it will also go hand in hand with the RB's who need to learn how to look for the holes being created. To understand the scheme better will allow them to exploit the blocking better as well. I think Henderson will evolve into the Ram's 3rd down RB.

TE: Everett & Higbee - These two have shown what I've been saying all season. They are the most under rated pair of TE's in the league. McVay needs to expand his offense to exploit the talent he has there. Goff also needs to include his TE's early in his reads and increase their targets.

WR: Woods, Cooks, Kupp, Henderson - The Rams probably have the best 4 deep WRs in the NFL, and that doesn't include the two TEs. Nothing more be said.

DEFENSE

DE (5T): Ogbo - Brockers might not be extended. I'd be surprised if he is. He lacks the speed to play off the edge. If he is re-signed it won't be to play DE. He'd be playing NT and he would have to take a pay cut as he hasn't played to his $10.7M salary this year. He's a perfect 4-3 3T DT not a 3-4 DE. Ogbo has shown enough this year so far that he has the talent to play DE in this system. He should be starting this year in reality truth be told.

NT (1T): Gaines - He should be starting at NT now. He's outplayed SJD in his limited snaps. He's a perfect fit for this defensive scheme. SJD has one move that is bullrush. If he can't bullrush the center and win (which has been very rare) he can't get off the block, and gets blown out of position regularly. Gaines is better defending the run. He's stouter and most of all he can shed blocks, which SJD simply can't. SJD is the reason this team continues to be soft against the run in the middle.

DT: AD - What needs to be said? Only that they need better behind him than Smart.

OLB: Fowler - I fully expect him to be extended. He's justified the faith the Rams had in him when they traded for him. In this system he's blossomed into the outside rusher that the defense needs.

OLB: Ebukam - Forget Mathews, his stats especially his sacks are misleading. Clay doesn't set a strong edge against the run and his sacks were mostly gimme's setup by AD. Sampson is a complete OLB who can play in coverage, set a hard edge in the run game and be a force in the blitz package. You can't ask for more. He's repeatedly shown he's an impact player. IMO Mathews is an expensive backup at this point in his career.

MIKE: LIttleton - Has proven in two consecutive years he's a quality MIKE. Guys like him are hard to find. He's another impact player you need.

MO LB: Young - He hasn't played except on ST's. He has the speed and talent to be a good ILB. This redshirt year should serve him well to strengthen, and improve his technique. IMO he will be the starter at this position next year.

CB: Ramsey & Long - There is no question that Ramsey is an elite CB. IMO Long has the talent and the physical traits you want in a boundary CB (length, speed & agility) to bookend Ramsey. Next year Wade will finally have the shut down press coverage CBs he's always wanted.

Safety: Johnson & Rapp - Wade loves to play man on the boundaries, zone with his LB's, and cover 1 with a single FS. In Johnson & Rapp Wade has exactly the kind of talent he wants to really play his scheme. Rapp is showing this year how really good he is as a zone SS. He's aggressive, reads passes well & tackles well. Johnson has shown he's got good range and the ability to read and react well as a deep cover safety.

IMO this team is complete with its starters right now. Regardless of how this team fares this year, they are now built to be a contender for a long time. This year's draft will be to build depth and development of the future starters. Once the o-line comes together, this team will truly be a contender, dare I say dynasty in the making? They certainly have the young talent for it.

God it's exciting to watch this!

Obo is not a 5T DE... He is an Edge/ OLB. He is Fowler's replacement because they can't keep him and could use a draft pick via trade or comp pick.

Also not sure about Littleton, but if the young guys on the OL play well down the stretch, it might eliminate the need to add any FAs to the OL and thus they will have $$ to spend on their own FAs.

In fact that might make it possible to keep Littleton or Fowler, but I doubt both.

They should end up with about $34-$38M in cap room as I expect Matthews & Weddle to go (clears $8M) and also a trade of Roby-Coleman ($4M) or some restructures.

With that $$ they can add a few significant pieces in FA, hopefully on the DL to help Donald and maybe one OL, hopefully depth at OT or C.

Would like to see more physicality added to the DL and OL.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Well, he can't get a "signing bonus" and not have it count partially towards this year. Otherwise it would be called a roster bonus to be paid next year at the start of the league year in March. He can't receive any compensation now without it being factored into the current cap.

I don't believe this to be correct, so i'll ask for you to show me this rule. Extending players prior to the end date of their previous contract happens all the time. As far as i'm aware, the bonus agreed to can be paid at the same time of the extension just so long as it's properly pro-rated under the renewed contract beginning in 2020, the beginning date for the new contract extension.
The bonus is not based on the previous contract unless there is also a restructure, but instead takes effect on the beginning date of his extension.
As for Shaq Johnson, we'll need to wait on a few more details before we completely understand how this contract is hammered out. jmo.

 

[PhillyRam]

I see our depth chart in 2020 something like this.

Additions needed at 5T (starter) OT, C (Depth, possible starter at C)
Edge, CB, speed WR (depth)

*** Draft pick or FA

############################
WR Cooks, Reynolds
WR Kupp, Webster

RT Havenstein
RG Evans
C Allen. ***. QB Goff, Wofford
LG Corbett
LT Edwards, Noteboom, ***
TE Higbee, Everett

WR Woods

###########################

CB Ramsey, Williams

CB Long, Deayon. FS Johnson

OLB Ebukam, Durham, ***
DT Donald
NT Joseph, Gains. ILB Reeder
5T *** , *** MLB Littleton
DE Orowonko, Patrick
SS Rapp
CB Hill, ***

 

[PhillyRam]

I don't believe this to be correct, so i'll ask for you to show me this rule. Extending players prior to the end date of their previous contract happens all the time. As far as i'm aware, the bonus agreed to can be paid at the same time of the extension just so long as it's properly pro-rated under the renewed contract beginning in 2020, the beginning date for the new contract extension.
The bonus is not based on the previous contract unless there is also a restructure, but instead takes effect on the beginning date of his extension.
As for Shaq Johnson, we'll need to wait on a few more details before we completely understand how this contract is hammered out. jmo.

Any money given at the time of signing has to count against the current cap. Otherwise teams could circumvent this years cap by extending a bunch of players, paying them signing bonuses, only to have those bonuses count against next years cap. That would be cheating.

Now you could call it a guaranteed roster bonus, but they still won't get it until next year ( March).

 

[Riverumbbq]

Any money given at the time of signing has to count against the current cap. Otherwise teams could circumvent this years cap by extending a bunch of players, paying them signing bonuses, only to have those bonuses count against next years cap. That would be cheating.

Now you could call it a guaranteed roster bonus, but they still won't get it until next year ( March).

How is it cheating ? There is no circumventing if a team wants to extend a player and they are willing to pay the costs associated with it, teams can't get around the CAP without serious consequences. Most any pure extension wouldn't take effect until the date the old contract runs out, how is it cheating for a player to be given any included bonus at the time of the signing ? No matter what, the team must pro-rate the bonus into the yearly CAP, nobody is getting away with anything, it's not a con.
I ask again, show me that rule.

 

[oldnotdead]

Obo is not a 5T DE... He is an Edge/ OLB. He is Fowler's replacement because they can't keep him and could use a draft pick via trade or comp pick.

Where do you think Ogbo plays? Both he and Fowler play a 5T. So if he is going to replace Fowler than he will be playing the rush LB position (WIL) in Wade's 3-4 hybrid system. You need to understand what that scheme is then you will understand that the WIL plays as the second DE on the LOS. Ogbo is 6'2" 253 lbs and Fowler is 6'3" 255 lbs. The only real difference is that Fowler is faster at 4.6 while Ogbo runs a 4.77. Ogbo doesn't have Fowlers long speed, but both have an explosive first step and good short area quickness. The only true (i.e. complete) OLB the Rams have is Ebukam. His role is to set a hard edge on runs, cover TE's or RB's in the flat, and as a blitzing LB. Even Mathews can't play in that manner which is why he's strictly a situational player which IMO isn't needed especially for what he's being paid.

Brockers is 6'5" 305 lbs and runs a 5+ 40 which is why he can't get to the QB unless it's a coverage sack and even then AD will probably get there first. That is why he's too heavy and slow to play as a 5T DE.

Also I doubt sincerely that they will simply allow Fowler to walk. They will have the money to extend him now that Talib and Peters are no longer on the team. They currently have $8.7M in free cap and will get another $16.6 M when Whitworth isn't extended. IMO extending Fowler will only add $3-$4M to their cap over and above what they are already paying him.

Brockers contract and lack of production is a reason I think he won't be extended so you can add his $10.7M into the mix as well. They will have plenty of money to extend Ramsey, Littleton, and Fowler as well as Woods. Kupp will probably be the largest increase but his won't kick in until 2021. I don't forsee any key salary casulties next year.

Just not extending Whitworth and Brockers along with what they already have in free cap gives them almost $24M before the cap raise estimated at $12-$15M is added. Their rookie pool will be lower because they won't have a 1st round pick to pay for. In fact they could even release Havenstein before his roster bonus kicks in if they wanted to though I don't think they will.

 

[oldnotdead]

Nice optimistic long-term overview.
Assume you mean Howard at ILB

No I meant Kenny Young. They specifically targeted and traded for him. They liked him during their draft evaluations. He gives them another inside blitzer and option to keeping Littleton on the field on passing downs as he lacks the speed to play man coverage.

In a 4-3 he would play WIL in a 3-4 he's a MO ILB, both positions are a coverage ILB position. None of the ILB's they have can play man coverage on a RB or TE which is why they have to pull that ILB and play a nickel DB or Rapp as a third safety.

 

[PhillyRam]

Where do you think Ogbo plays? Both he and Fowler play a 5T. So if he is going to replace Fowler than he will be playing the rush LB position (WIL) in Wade's 3-4 hybrid system. You need to understand what that scheme is then you will understand that the WIL plays as the second DE on the LOS. Ogbo is 6'2" 253 lbs and Fowler is 6'3" 255 lbs. The only real difference is that Fowler is faster at 4.6 while Ogbo runs a 4.77. Ogbo doesn't have Fowlers long speed, but both have an explosive first step and good short area quickness. The only true (i.e. complete) OLB the Rams have is Ebukam. His role is to set a hard edge on runs, cover TE's or RB's in the flat, and as a blitzing LB. Even Mathews can't play in that manner which is why he's strictly a situational player which IMO isn't needed especially for what he's being paid.

Brockers is 6'5" 305 lbs and runs a 5+ 40 which is why he can't get to the QB unless it's a coverage sack and even then AD will probably get there first. That is why he's too heavy and slow to play as a 5T DE.

Also I doubt sincerely that they will simply allow Fowler to walk. They will have the money to extend him now that Talib and Peters are no longer on the team. They currently have $8.7M in free cap and will get another $16.6 M when Whitworth isn't extended. IMO extending Fowler will only add $3-$4M to their cap over and above what they are already paying him.

Brockers contract and lack of production is a reason I think he won't be extended so you can add his $10.7M into the mix as well. They will have plenty of money to extend Ramsey, Littleton, and Fowler as well as Woods. Kupp will probably be the largest increase but his won't kick in until 2021. I don't forsee any key salary casulties next year.

Just not extending Whitworth and Brockers along with what they already have in free cap gives them almost $24M before the cap raise estimated at $12-$15M is added. Their rookie pool will be lower because they won't have a 1st round pick to pay for. In fact they could even release Havenstein before his roster bonus kicks in if they wanted to though I don't think they will.

I don't consider him a 5 Tech...

I think of a 5 Tech as this....


"Defensive and Draft Connotations
3-4
In a "normal" 3-4 front, the defensive line is typically made up of a nose tackle and two defensive ends. Those defensive ends typically line up at a 5 technique. Usually when people talk about a 3-4 defense, or a "true" 3-4, they mean that each defensive lineman will be responsible for two gaps against running plays.

So when guys like Mike Mayock say "his best fit is as a 5 technique end" they mean that the player can play this position. Typically these guys are:

Near or over 300 lbs. 280 is small for a 5 tech. Romeo liked his DEs to be enormous (320+ lbs).
Physical and strong
Able to play two gaps versus the run; able to shoot their hands right up into an offensive tackle's chest, stand him up, and then shed his block and move to either side of him to make a tackle.
More intelligent or good at getting a read on what the offense is doing
Not necessarily extremely quick or athletic, though this can be a bonus"

Draft Terminology: The "Three Technique" and the "Five Technique"

What the heck is a five technique end? A three technique tackle? Come find out in our series explaining scouting terminology.

www.google.com

 

[PhillyRam]

I look at it as NT, then you have what traditionaly were called 5T DE's, then your two OLBs...

So when I look at Obo I think of one of the 2 OLBs in a 3-4.

3-4... 3 DL , 4 LBs

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[Rams43]

Looking at the roster right now, with no trades or even the draft they have their starters at every position on the roster right now. This is why trading for Ramsey was the final piece and better than any player they could have drafted in their projected first round slot.

OFFENSE

LT: Noteboom - Played well at the position in 2018. Has all the traits you want in a starter at the position. His struggles this year were IMO due to his playing a position he had never played. Being held out of preseason only exacerbated the issue. I foresee no problem having him take over for Whitworth who is clearly showing his age and won't be extended.

LG: Corbett - Has played well overall at the position so far. A solid trade to get a starter at LG for a 5th round pick. Regarded as a solid low first round to high second round talent in the 2018 draft.

C: Allen - He outplayed Sullivan before his injury. I expect him to continue that upward trend upon his return. He has the talent to be a solid center, the kind of journeyman player every team needs.

RG: Evans - He's playing out of position at this level at RT. The Rams should learn from Havenstein what happens when you do that. He's built like a OG not an NFL OT. This experience will serve him well overall. But because of Havenstein's contract don't be surprised if he moves inside to RG at least for the 2020 season. He also might move to RG if he returns to play this year. If Rob moves into RG expect Evans to be the game day swing reserve.

RT: Edwards: His natural position is OT and the Rams know it. He played very limited snaps in practice during TC at OG. As I posted in another thread I looked at him as Havensteins replacement in 2021. But Havenstein's struggles and Edwards play at RG simply means that time has come now. Edwards came in relatively unpolished compared to the other o-line rookies. But by next year I would expect him to have strengthened and improved his technique.

QB: Goff & Wolford - Goff has played better than most give him credit for. He has shown if he has a decent o-line in front of him he can be extremely dangerous. He's been improving every year under McVay's system and I see it even this year. Wolford looked good in his play this preseason. I don't expect Bortles to stay another year, but he might and I think he should. Bortles has the talent to be a good starting QB on the right team in the right system.

RB: Gurley & Henderson - Gurley is a very good RB and he will return to the guy we saw in 2018 and continue to see in flashes this year. Like Goff he simply needs good o-line play to make it work. The change to a gap blocking scheme has improved the running game tremendously from what it was early this year. As the o-line continues to improve, it will also go hand in hand with the RB's who need to learn how to look for the holes being created. To understand the scheme better will allow them to exploit the blocking better as well. I think Henderson will evolve into the Ram's 3rd down RB.

TE: Everett & Higbee - These two have shown what I've been saying all season. They are the most under rated pair of TE's in the league. McVay needs to expand his offense to exploit the talent he has there. Goff also needs to include his TE's early in his reads and increase their targets.

WR: Woods, Cooks, Kupp, Henderson - The Rams probably have the best 4 deep WRs in the NFL, and that doesn't include the two TEs. Nothing more be said.

DEFENSE

DE (5T): Ogbo - Brockers might not be extended. I'd be surprised if he is. He lacks the speed to play off the edge. If he is re-signed it won't be to play DE. He'd be playing NT and he would have to take a pay cut as he hasn't played to his $10.7M salary this year. He's a perfect 4-3 3T DT not a 3-4 DE. Ogbo has shown enough this year so far that he has the talent to play DE in this system. He should be starting this year in reality truth be told.

NT (1T): Gaines - He should be starting at NT now. He's outplayed SJD in his limited snaps. He's a perfect fit for this defensive scheme. SJD has one move that is bullrush. If he can't bullrush the center and win (which has been very rare) he can't get off the block, and gets blown out of position regularly. Gaines is better defending the run. He's stouter and most of all he can shed blocks, which SJD simply can't. SJD is the reason this team continues to be soft against the run in the middle.

DT: AD - What needs to be said? Only that they need better behind him than Smart.

OLB: Fowler - I fully expect him to be extended. He's justified the faith the Rams had in him when they traded for him. In this system he's blossomed into the outside rusher that the defense needs.

OLB: Ebukam - Forget Mathews, his stats especially his sacks are misleading. Clay doesn't set a strong edge against the run and his sacks were mostly gimme's setup by AD. Sampson is a complete OLB who can play in coverage, set a hard edge in the run game and be a force in the blitz package. You can't ask for more. He's repeatedly shown he's an impact player. IMO Mathews is an expensive backup at this point in his career.

MIKE: LIttleton - Has proven in two consecutive years he's a quality MIKE. Guys like him are hard to find. He's another impact player you need.

MO LB: Young - He hasn't played except on ST's. He has the speed and talent to be a good ILB. This redshirt year should serve him well to strengthen, and improve his technique. IMO he will be the starter at this position next year.

CB: Ramsey & Long - There is no question that Ramsey is an elite CB. IMO Long has the talent and the physical traits you want in a boundary CB (length, speed & agility) to bookend Ramsey. Next year Wade will finally have the shut down press coverage CBs he's always wanted.

Safety: Johnson & Rapp - Wade loves to play man on the boundaries, zone with his LB's, and cover 1 with a single FS. In Johnson & Rapp Wade has exactly the kind of talent he wants to really play his scheme. Rapp is showing this year how really good he is as a zone SS. He's aggressive, reads passes well & tackles well. Johnson has shown he's got good range and the ability to read and react well as a deep cover safety.

IMO this team is complete with its starters right now. Regardless of how this team fares this year, they are now built to be a contender for a long time. This year's draft will be to build depth and development of the future starters. Once the o-line comes together, this team will truly be a contender, dare I say dynasty in the making? They certainly have the young talent for it.

God it's exciting to watch this!

FWIW, I largely agree with your takes up and down the line here, oldnotdead. As in 90-95%, actually.

But there are a few that I differ with:

I don’t quite share your certainty on Allen at C. He’s gotta win me over now after those first 9 games. Hell, Blythe could conceivably prove to be worthy of being our starting C next year IF he impresses in these next 4 games plus is willing to sign for a good price. I know that you dislike Blythe, but I’m keeping an open mind on him at C.

I see no reason to flip flop Edwards and Evans. None.

I, too, see Brockers as a goner, if only as a cap casualty. DE then becomes a need. Not sure that Obo has proven himself worthy to start there next year. So far he’s been a JAG, I think.

Not sure Fowler gets extended. It’s a cap thing, unfortunately. Don’t think that they can afford both Fowler and Littleton and I’d rather have Littleton, frankly. He’s earned it, IMO.

Ebu HAS been playing better of late, but I’m not yet fully convinced. I will say that my opinion on Ebu has improved to a definite maybe. Lol.

Kenny Young? I’m afraid that you’re projecting here, man. Young as a starter in ‘20? Based on what so far? Hope you’re right, of course, but I’m not even close to prepared to consider him a ‘20 starter until I see him shining on the field.

So, I kinda expect to see the following as goners next year:

Brockers
Matthews
Fowler (either Fowler or Littleton)
Weddle
Whitworth
GZ (maybe)

Pretty clear to me where Rams focus in FA and the draft. Top 3 picks could be NT, DE, or OLB, depending on who falls.

IOW, Rams are NOT quite set at all starting positions for ‘20. But I do think that they’re pretty damned close. And I agree that our offseason needs to be filled are very doable.

And I 100% agree that, Gawd, it’s exciting to watch this!

 

[shovelpass]

Where do you think Ogbo plays? Both he and Fowler play a 5T. So if he is going to replace Fowler than he will be playing the rush LB position (WIL) in Wade's 3-4 hybrid system. You need to understand what that scheme is then you will understand that the WIL plays as the second DE on the LOS. Ogbo is 6'2" 253 lbs and Fowler is 6'3" 255 lbs. The only real difference is that Fowler is faster at 4.6 while Ogbo runs a 4.77. Ogbo doesn't have Fowlers long speed, but both have an explosive first step and good short area quickness. The only true (i.e. complete) OLB the Rams have is Ebukam. His role is to set a hard edge on runs, cover TE's or RB's in the flat, and as a blitzing LB. Even Mathews can't play in that manner which is why he's strictly a situational player which IMO isn't needed es9pecially for what he's being paid.

No. You keep at this, but you need to understand that OLB/EDGE is not 5T. Even in Wade's system where they line up is totally different.

Notice how wide off of the line Fowler is compared to Brockers? Brockers is at 5T or possibly even 5i, Fowler is at 7/9 where he could use his speed off of the edge. Guys like Fowler/Ebu/Ogbo couldn't hold up on the inside like a true 5T. In terms of size its 3-4DE> 4-3DE> 3-4OLB

 

[SteveBrown]

Looking at the roster right now, with no trades or even the draft they have their starters at every position on the roster right now. This is why trading for Ramsey was the final piece and better than any player they could have drafted in their projected first round slot.

OFFENSE

LT: Noteboom - Played well at the position in 2018. Has all the traits you want in a starter at the position. His struggles this year were IMO due to his playing a position he had never played. Being held out of preseason only exacerbated the issue. I foresee no problem having him take over for Whitworth who is clearly showing his age and won't be extended.

LG: Corbett - Has played well overall at the position so far. A solid trade to get a starter at LG for a 5th round pick. Regarded as a solid low first round to high second round talent in the 2018 draft.

C: Allen - He outplayed Sullivan before his injury. I expect him to continue that upward trend upon his return. He has the talent to be a solid center, the kind of journeyman player every team needs.

I like a lot of what you say. Yes, the rams entire roster looks good to me.
I don't like Corbett at LG or Allen, but like Blythe at center....think Hav, injury free, goes back to RT and Evans at LG and we will have a power Oline. I wonder about Noteboom--clearly lacks strength, but has the other toold: feet and intelligence and knows the system. Hav most likely was injured 6-7 weeks ago, and then when Evans was ready, they put him in there. Hav was B+ in 2018 and at age 28 certainly has 3-4 years left in him. He is tough, very smart and knows where to be...which compenstates for the feet.

My only problem is: Can B Cooks contribute long term..I wonder....He is more impt than people know because the FS's attention is taken out of every play because of Cooks

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I see our depth chart in 2020 something like this.

Additions needed at 5T (starter) OT, C (Depth, possible starter at C)
Edge, CB, speed WR (depth)

*** Draft pick or FA

############################
WR Cooks, Reynolds
WR Kupp, Webster

RT Havenstein
RG Evans
C Allen. ***. QB Goff, Wofford
LG Corbett
LT Edwards, Noteboom, ***
TE Higbee, Everett

WR Woods

###########################

CB Ramsey, Williams

CB Long, Deayon. FS Johnson

OLB Ebukam, Durham, ***
DT Donald
NT Joseph, Gains. ILB Reeder
5T *** , *** MLB Littleton
DE Orowonko, Patrick
SS Rapp
CB Hill, ***

Havenstein at ORT
Allen at C
Noteboom at OLT

God I hope they aren't that stupid.

 

[FrantikRam]

So after last night, I think we have to re-sign both Littleton and Fowler. That likely means cutting Weddle and Matthews, but I think we have to.

That probably only leaves room for a mid-tier offensive linemen, which sucks - but we can't let these guys go.

 

[PhillyRam]

Havenstein at ORT
Allen at C
Noteboom at OLT

God I hope they aren't that stupid.

Reading comprehension in regards to comments on C and LT would be good on your part.

I stated help at C to compete with Allen. I list Noteboom as back up.

I am not ready to bury Havenstein, now maybe they can trade him, clearing the way for Evans at RT.

Also not giving up on Noteboom. He looked solid when playing LT in 18' preseason and the one game where he played for Whitworth against Niners. I am not judging him on his RG play as it seemed he was out of position.

It should be noted that this team will not have tons of resources to add players across the board.

Its easy to say lets add a LT and a C not to mention DL while keeping Fowler, Littleton, etc...

That is a fantasy. So guys like Noteboom, Havenstein, or maybe even Allen may have to be relied upon.

 

[Riverumbbq]

So after last night, I think we have to re-sign both Littleton and Fowler. That likely means cutting Weddle and Matthews, but I think we have to.

That probably only leaves room for a mid-tier offensive linemen, which sucks - but we can't let these guys go.

If anything, last night just made Littleton & Fowler even more expensive and harder to retain as they move towards free agency, not that they wouldn't have been already. Weddle, Matthews and some trades/CAP cutting are likely already on the discussion board/agenda for potential moves next off-season.
I honestly don't see how an extremely expensive Fowler returns when you have Obo, Polite, Durham & Carraway sitting in the wings. jmo.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

If anything, last night just made Littleton & Fowler even more expensive and harder to retain as they move towards free agency, not that they wouldn't have been already. Weddle, Matthews and some trades/CAP cutting are likely already on the discussion board/agenda for potential moves next off-season.
I honestly don't see how an extremely expensive Fowler returns when you have Obo, Polite, Durham & Carraway sitting in the wings. jmo.

We have no idea what the cap increase will be or how much of a priority Fowler and Littleton will be. But if Wade's past is an indication he will want to keep Fowler over Littleton. If it were me, and had to pick one over the other, I'd keep Corey L.

I can easily see Were me being a cut with JJ coming back. But Matthews has had a good year. Losing both Matthews and Fowler in the same season would be a big leap of faith in the young guys. I like Ebukam, and Obo but I'm not ready to put a very important piece to the defense in both of their hands. I'm not relying on Polite either, despite his ability.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Reading comprehension in regards to comments on C and LT would be good on your part.

I stated help at C to compete with Allen. I list Noteboom as back up.

I am not ready to bury Havenstein, now maybe they can trade him, clearing the way for Evans at RT.

Also not giving up on Noteboom. He looked solid when playing LT in 18' preseason and the one game where he played for Whitworth against Niners. I am not judging him on his RG play as it seemed he was out of position.

It should be noted that this team will not have tons of resources to add players across the board.

Its easy to say lets add a LT and a C not to mention DL while keeping Fowler, Littleton, etc...

That is a fantasy. So guys like Noteboom, Havenstein, or maybe even Allen may have to be relied upon.

I overlooked the top notes and went right to the list. If they try starting Allen again then they get what they deserve. I could see Noteboom as a backup, but I don't like his run blocking enough to start him. Whitworth hinted at coming back and would be a little cheaper than trying to sign a stud fresh off the market, looking for his first big contract. I'd try to trade Havenstein. They'll need a backup ORT but maybe Brewer or Noteboom could handle that post.