Really Long---2020: looking forward a bit

[PhillyRam]

The kids will have a season under their belt. They only have 4 yr deals so they gotta play at some point and having this experience sets them up for next year.

If they had never played this year i would be more cautious, but they have looked good considering the situation of being thrown in there with the injuries that keep juggling the starters.

So in my view, it would be a waste of valuable cap space to sign a vet OG who also has an injury history.

Save that for a cheap Whitworth deal or another vet LT, who you bring in for insurance.

 

[PhillyRam]

BTW, I Could see Whitworth signing a Weddle/Matthews type deal. A 2 yr deal that is essentially a 1 yr deal.

Then you groom Noteboom or Edwards to replace him.

 

[Riverumbbq]

The kids will have a season under their belt. They only have 4 yr deals so they gotta play at some point and having this experience sets them up for next year.

If they had never played this year i would be more cautious, but they have looked good considering the situation of being thrown in there with the injuries that keep juggling the starters.

So in my view, it would be a waste of valuable cap space to sign a vet OG who also has an injury history.

Save that for a cheap Whitworth deal or another vet LT, who you bring in for insurance.

Which cheap LT would that be ? I hear Greg Robinson will be available.

I'm curious how you would spend our available CAP if not on the OL ?

 

[PhillyRam]

Well, if i spend on the OL it would be for a LT or C. They have RT's & OG's.

I think you spend money to extend Kupp, Ramsey, & Johnson. You can only franchise one and they will be cheaper if signed before they hit FA.

So that eats up a lot of the $30M or so that they will have. Plus you have to look long-term in regards the additional big contracts.

And I just see no reason to add a G with what they have already. I mean why draft guys in the first 4 rounds if you won't play them? And why pay big money for that position?

So I expect no big outside additions. Maybe DL depth or a C or LT. Maybe a vet cut that doesn't impact the comp pick formula. Maybe they retain Littleton or Zeurlein or even a guy like Christian for depth.

Because they will want to play the comp pick game and make sure they don't jeapordize losing comp picks for losing Fowler, Brockers, and or Littleton. Those picks will be critical since right now the 21' draft consists of a 2,3,6,7

 

[BonifayRam]

The below lists of 2020 UFA LT/OG/OC can give you a look as to who might be available usually @ an ultra overpriced cost.

2024 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Tracking the status and signings of all 2024 NFL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

2024 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Tracking the status and signings of all 2024 NFL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

2024 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Tracking the status and signings of all 2024 NFL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

Most NFL teams have much more salary cap funds available than the Rams. Contending in bidding wars with other teams in the attempt to obtain good UFA's is always a big gamble.

There will be a large sucking sound coming from the OL unit when 38 yr old all pro Andrew Whitworth retires. Rob Havenstein who is ONLY in his 5th season stands to be the Rams veteran OL leader. Big Rob's 2019 performance has been well below our two starting rookies Evans & Edwards. Hard to lead when you can not pass block worth a .

Rams simply can not take the big chances on UFA veterans who have big question marks. McVay & Kromer might consider reserve UFA's or released veteran OL'ers who they have experience working with....Spencer Long, Ryan Groy, Evan Boehm & Austin Blythe.... none of which are good starting material.

Rams might calculate that the safest route to go is try to plan to keep their own pending UFA's (Whitworth/Blythe) & go with Havenstein for another season.....thus helping the current very young OL cadre of Edwards/ Shelton/ Evans/ Corbett/ Allen/ Noteboom/ Brewer/ Kolone & Trewyn get another seasons worth of experience.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Well, if i spend on the OL it would be for a LT or C. They have RT's & OG's.

I think you spend money to extend Kupp, Ramsey, & Johnson. You can only franchise one and they will be cheaper if signed before they hit FA.

So that eats up a lot of the $30M or so that they will have. Plus you have to look long-term in regards the additional big contracts.

And I just see no reason to add a G with what they have already. I mean why draft guys in the first 4 rounds if you won't play them? And why pay big money for that position?

So I expect no big outside additions. Maybe DL depth or a C or LT. Maybe a vet cut that doesn't impact the comp pick formula. Maybe they retain Littleton or Zeurlein or even a guy like Christian for depth.

Because they will want to play the comp pick game and make sure they don't jeapordize losing comp picks for losing Fowler, Brockers, and or Littleton. Those picks will be critical since right now the 21' draft consists of a 2,3,6,7

I don't understand why people keep bringing up Kupp, Ramsey & Johnson when talking about the 2020 free agency period & CAP. None of these 3 have contracts due in 2020, they can't enter free agency until 2021, ... the Rams only need not overspend or overextend in 2020 to make sure there is enough on hand for our 2021 re-signings. There will be a lot of movement between now and the 2021 season, including trades, salary restructure, CAP Casualties and at least a dozen new draftees. The Rams are not bankrupt, they will spend money this next off-season, whether it be to retain one of our own heading into free agency or to hire some outside help for the OL, ... the money is obviously limited, so we can't go hog wild, but even with guys like Brockers, Fowler, Littleton, Blythe & Whitworth likely leaving, there may not be much more money than one fairly expensive free agent brought in to help, perhaps two if we also CAP cut a few guys, ... although it will indeed be wise to carry over as large a rollover as we can. This is why I choose to stick with only one big money free agency signing.
While the Rams do have OG's, they were all only depth players a minute ago, so it's hard to tell who outside of perhaps Edwards will rise to the occasion and own a starting position that will be competent at Pass Pro as well as a quality run blocker going forward. If we haven't learned anything else this season, we have learned how much we rely on our OL to play well together for the benefit of both Goff & Gurley, that and McVay's determination to throw the ball 70% of the time.
jmo.

 

[BonifayRam]

Scherff

Reunite veteran Brandon Scherff with McVay at RG.

Edwards, Corbett & Brewer compete for starting role at LG. Cover your eyes here, but even Demby is likely given one last shot.

Trade Havenstein and make Evans our permanent RT.

Draft TCU LT Lucas Niang in the 3'rd round to compete with Noteboom.

Recent Wisconsin acquisition Nate Trewyn and fellow practice squad member Jeremiah Kolone are large Centers who will compete with the smaller Brian Allen, Corbett & Shelton, ... but add to the competition a larger mid- round draft pick like Clemson's Sean Pollard or Michigan's Cesar Ruiz.

jmo.

While I would be unbelievably happy if the only off season addition was a veteran all pro RG Scherff. Once they insert him in one of the OG posts it automatically dramatically improves this 2020 OL. If the Rams insert Scherff in @ LG, Kromer could easily utilize the young OT Bobby Evans @ LT for the first part of the season to duo up with veteran Scherff. If they decide to insert Scherff @ RG then Edwards would take over the LT starting duties until Noteboom is healthy, so I have no reason not to greatly desire this big UFA sign.

Big problem for me is ... I just can not comprehend how this would be possible. First, I do not see the Redskins letting Scherff go especially after the trade of starting veteran LT Williams. Letting both of their the best OL'ers depart is insane when they are going to start young QB Dwayne Haskins.

2nd, many other teams needing a veteran all star RG or LG would be lining up to get in on the bidding for his services thus raising the price tag on this OL'er. These are 2 huge hurtles to overcome. So I believe this particular suggested OL cure is not feasible in my small non-functioning brain.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Scherff
While I would be unbelievably happy if the only off season addition was a veteran all pro RG Scherff. Once they insert him in one of the OG posts it automatically dramatically improves this 2020 OL. If the Rams insert Scherff in @ LG, Kromer could easily utilize the young OT Bobby Evans @ LT for the first part of the season to duo up with veteran Scherff. If they decide to insert Scherff @ RG then Edwards would take over the LT starting duties until Noteboom is healthy, so I have no reason not to greatly desire this big UFA sign.

Big problem for me is ... I just can not comprehend how this would be possible. First, I do not see the Redskins letting Scherff go especially after the trade of starting veteran LT Williams. Letting both of their the best OL'ers depart is insane when they are going to start young QB Dwayne Haskins.

2nd, many other teams needing a veteran all star RG or LG would be lining up to get in on the bidding for his services thus raising the price tag on this OL'er. These are 2 huge hurtles to overcome. So I believe this particular suggested OL cure is not feasible in my small non-functioning brain.

No doubt that at this point in 2019 that Scherff is just topping a wish list for 2020. Until he is either Franchised by Washington or signs elsewhere, I still must consider him a viable option for free agency though, especially considering the McVay connection. Scherff would solve a problem and add veteran leadership to a team which is about to lose their own to retirement. If Scherff doesn't become available for us, then re-signing Whitworth short term would be my next choice. If neither happens, i'm not going to panic, but I suspect there will be more growing pains and penalties as we watch and wait for such a young unit to develop its chemistry and produce a true leader.
On a positive note, the Rams have accumulated a fair amount of young depth players up and down the OL, and since we don't get to observe how they are looking in practice, it's quite possible that several of them are projecting quite well, but it would still be nice to have that quality complimentary veteran leadership who can instinctively herd the kids into line where necessary. jmo.

 

[PhillyRam]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up Kupp, Ramsey & Johnson when talking about the 2020 free agency period & CAP. None of these 3 have contracts due in 2020, they can't enter free agency until 2021, ... the Rams only need not overspend or overextend in 2020 to make sure there is enough on hand for our 2021 re-signings. There will be a lot of movement between now and the 2021 season, including trades, salary restructure, CAP Casualties and at least a dozen new draftees. The Rams are not bankrupt, they will spend money this next off-season, whether it be to retain one of our own heading into free agency or to hire some outside help for the OL, ... the money is obviously limited, so we can't go hog wild, but even with guys like Brockers, Fowler, Littleton, Blythe & Whitworth likely leaving, there may not be much more money than one fairly expensive free agent brought in to help, perhaps two if we also CAP cut a few guys, ... although it will indeed be wise to carry over as large a rollover as we can. This is why I choose to stick with only one big money free agency signing.
While the Rams do have OG's, they were all only depth players a minute ago, so it's hard to tell who outside of perhaps Edwards will rise to the occasion and own a starting position that will be competent at Pass Pro as well as a quality run blocker going forward. If we haven't learned anything else this season, we have learned how much we rely on our OL to play well together for the benefit of both Goff & Gurley, that and McVay's determination to throw the ball 70% of the time.
jmo.

If you let those guys finish 2020 without a deal you will have no leverage and you will overpay or lose them.

How would you like to see Kupp in a Seahawks uniform?

 

[Riverumbbq]

If you let those guys finish 2020 without a deal you will have no leverage and you will overpay or lose them.

How would you like to see Kupp in a Seahawks uniform?

That's not going to happen. As i've stated many times, the Rams will handle these upcoming contracts in much the same manner they did with Goff & Gurley, letting them play out the final year of their contracts and re-signing them in 2020 with new contracts which don't become effective until 2021. The 2020 CAP remains steady, the players get their bonus money early, and the 2021 CAP is what will be affected, not the 2020 CAP. jmo.

 

[PhillyRam]

That's not going to happen. As i've stated many times, the Rams will handle these upcoming contracts in much the same manner they did with Goff & Gurley, letting them play out the final year of their contracts and re-signing them in 2020 with new contracts which don't become effective until 2021. The 2020 CAP remains steady, the players get their bonus money early, and the 2021 CAP is what will be affected, not the 2020 CAP. jmo.

Goff and Gurley did not play out the final year of their contracts.

Saffold, Joyner, Suh, Tru Johnson, Jenkins all did... Notice that none were retained.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Goff and Gurley did not play out the final year of their contracts.

The final year of both their contracts should have been the 5'th year option owned by the Rams. After further reading I now see how the Rams extended those contracts. Still, this shouldn't change how the Rams do business by extending contracts prior to their due date and having them become valid the following season after the player receives his bonus.
Ramsey offers the only contract which could potentially lower his CAP hit in 2020 if the Rams choose to go that route, but the team may prefer to pay him his 5'th year option in 2020 and take the CAP reduction in 2021 as the first year of new contracts are often discounted somewhat. Extending Kupp, JJ3 and/or Everett early for the 2020 season only makes our CAP situation unnecessarily worse when we can still extend them mid-season or earlier in 2020 to take effect in 2021. These players can still receive their bonus money early without hurting our 2020 CAP.


Todd Gurley shatters mark for NFL's top-paid RB with four-year, $60 million extension
Mike Jones
USA TODAY

Crossing off another priority re-signing, the Los Angeles Rams on Tuesday awarded running back Todd Gurley a four-year, $60 million contract extension that includes $45 million guaranteed, a person with knowledge of the situation confirmed. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the team had not confirmed the financial details of the agreement.
Gurley had two years left on his deal after the Rams in April exercised the fifth-year option on his rookie contract. But now following the agreement of the contract extension, Gurley is tied to the team for another six years.
"I feel fortunate to be able to work with people like Todd," Rams coach Sean McVay said in a press conference announcing an extension. "He earned this."
Gurley's new deal comes a week after the Rams inked wide receiver Brandin Cooks to a five-year, $80 million contract that includes $20.5 million guaranteed. The Rams earlier this offseason acquired the fourth-year pro via trade from New England.

Jared Goff agrees to Rams contract extension that guarantees a record $110 million

Rams quarterback Jared Goff agreed to a four-year contract extension with the team on Tuesday. The new deal keeps Goff under contract through the 2024 season.

www.latimes.com

 

[PhillyRam]

The final year of both their contracts should have been the 5'th year option owned by the Rams. After further reading I now see how the Rams extended those contracts. Still, this shouldn't change how the Rams do business by extending contracts prior to their due date and having them become valid the following season after the player receives his bonus.
Ramsey offers the only contract which could potentially lower his CAP hit in 2020 if the Rams choose to go that route, but the team may prefer to pay him his 5'th year option in 2020 and take the CAP reduction in 2021 as the first year of new contracts are often discounted somewhat. Extending Kupp, JJ3 and/or Everett early for the 2020 season only makes our CAP situation unnecessarily worse when we can still extend them mid-season or earlier in 2020 to take effect in 2021. These players can still receive their bonus money early without hurting our 2020 CAP.


Todd Gurley shatters mark for NFL's top-paid RB with four-year, $60 million extension
Mike Jones
USA TODAY

Crossing off another priority re-signing, the Los Angeles Rams on Tuesday awarded running back Todd Gurley a four-year, $60 million contract extension that includes $45 million guaranteed, a person with knowledge of the situation confirmed. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the team had not confirmed the financial details of the agreement.
Gurley had two years left on his deal after the Rams in April exercised the fifth-year option on his rookie contract. But now following the agreement of the contract extension, Gurley is tied to the team for another six years.
"I feel fortunate to be able to work with people like Todd," Rams coach Sean McVay said in a press conference announcing an extension. "He earned this."
Gurley's new deal comes a week after the Rams inked wide receiver Brandin Cooks to a five-year, $80 million contract that includes $20.5 million guaranteed. The Rams earlier this offseason acquired the fourth-year pro via trade from New England.

Jared Goff agrees to Rams contract extension that guarantees a record $110 million

Rams quarterback Jared Goff agreed to a four-year contract extension with the team on Tuesday. The new deal keeps Goff under contract through the 2024 season.

www.latimes.com

If you try to sign these guys in lets say week 8 next year, and you only have $1M in cap room... Then you can't give them a signing bonus. So you cant sign them.

So you will need 2020 cap room to make those extensions.

If they hit FA, good luck in keeping both of them.

 

[Riverumbbq]

If you try to sign these guys in lets say week 8 next year, and you only have $1M in cap room... Then you can't give them a signing bonus. So you cant sign them.

So you will need 2020 cap room to make those extensions.

If they hit FA, good luck in keeping both of them.

You aren't understanding me. You would be extending them a new contract mid-season 2020 that won't take effect until the off-season of 2021 when their old contract technically runs out. The bonus money is part of the 2021 extension and has no effect on the 2020 CAP.

 

[PhillyRam]

You aren't understanding me. You would be extending them a new contract mid-season 2020 that won't take effect until the off-season of 2021 when their old contract technically runs out. The bonus money is part of the 2021 extension and has no effect on the 2020 CAP.

The advantage of signing early is to get paid earlier.... Not sure it would be that realistic to sign them if they don't see any $$ until the following year. They may as well bet on themselves and wait.

 

[Riverumbbq]

The advantage of signing early is to get paid earlier.... Not sure it would be that realistic to sign them if they don't see any $$ until the following year. They may as well bet on themselves and wait.

I don't understand why this is so difficult for you as they could have access to signing bonus money early, and it won't count against the CAP until 2021.

 

[PhillyRam]

I don't understand why this is so difficult for you as they could have access to signing bonus money early, and it won't count against the CAP until 2021.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Kupp has $1.2M cap number next yr. Johnson's is $900K.

So with any new deal that they would sign mid season, there is not enough salary there to restructure into bonus and not jack up their cap number.

So I believe you need to factor in having cap room for a new deal next yr. Otherwise they will hit FA and you will lose at least one of them.

 

[PhillyRam]

I don't understand why this is so difficult for you as they could have access to signing bonus money early, and it won't count against the CAP until 2021.

Well looky here. The Panthers just extended Shaq Thompson and it included a $16M signing bonus. Luckily they had $13M in cap space available so they could handle the prorated amount for this year.

Panthers give LB Thompson 4-year, $54.2M deal

The Panthers are giving linebacker Shaq Thompson a four-year, $54.2 million extension that includes $28 million guaranteed, agent Doug Hendrickson told ESPN's Adam Schefter. The total deal maxes out at $57 million.

www.espn.com

 

[Riverumbbq]

Well looky here. The Panthers just extended Shaq Thompson and it included a $16M signing bonus. Luckily they had $13M in cap space available so they could handle the prorated amount for this year.

Panthers give LB Thompson 4-year, $54.2M deal

The Panthers are giving linebacker Shaq Thompson a four-year, $54.2 million extension that includes $28 million guaranteed, agent Doug Hendrickson told ESPN's Adam Schefter. The total deal maxes out at $57 million.

www.espn.com

Where does it say his signing bonus is to be pro-rated into his 2019 CAP and not into the whole of his newly extended contract beginning in 2020 ?

 

[oldnotdead]

Looking at the roster right now, with no trades or even the draft they have their starters at every position on the roster right now. This is why trading for Ramsey was the final piece and better than any player they could have drafted in their projected first round slot.

OFFENSE

LT: Noteboom - Played well at the position in 2018. Has all the traits you want in a starter at the position. His struggles this year were IMO due to his playing a position he had never played. Being held out of preseason only exacerbated the issue. I foresee no problem having him take over for Whitworth who is clearly showing his age and won't be extended.

LG: Corbett - Has played well overall at the position so far. A solid trade to get a starter at LG for a 5th round pick. Regarded as a solid low first round to high second round talent in the 2018 draft.

C: Allen - He outplayed Sullivan before his injury. I expect him to continue that upward trend upon his return. He has the talent to be a solid center, the kind of journeyman player every team needs.

RG: Evans - He's playing out of position at this level at RT. The Rams should learn from Havenstein what happens when you do that. He's built like a OG not an NFL OT. This experience will serve him well overall. But because of Havenstein's contract don't be surprised if he moves inside to RG at least for the 2020 season. He also might move to RG if he returns to play this year. If Rob moves into RG expect Evans to be the game day swing reserve.

RT: Edwards: His natural position is OT and the Rams know it. He played very limited snaps in practice during TC at OG. As I posted in another thread I looked at him as Havensteins replacement in 2021. But Havenstein's struggles and Edwards play at RG simply means that time has come now. Edwards came in relatively unpolished compared to the other o-line rookies. But by next year I would expect him to have strengthened and improved his technique.

QB: Goff & Wolford - Goff has played better than most give him credit for. He has shown if he has a decent o-line in front of him he can be extremely dangerous. He's been improving every year under McVay's system and I see it even this year. Wolford looked good in his play this preseason. I don't expect Bortles to stay another year, but he might and I think he should. Bortles has the talent to be a good starting QB on the right team in the right system.

RB: Gurley & Henderson - Gurley is a very good RB and he will return to the guy we saw in 2018 and continue to see in flashes this year. Like Goff he simply needs good o-line play to make it work. The change to a gap blocking scheme has improved the running game tremendously from what it was early this year. As the o-line continues to improve, it will also go hand in hand with the RB's who need to learn how to look for the holes being created. To understand the scheme better will allow them to exploit the blocking better as well. I think Henderson will evolve into the Ram's 3rd down RB.

TE: Everett & Higbee - These two have shown what I've been saying all season. They are the most under rated pair of TE's in the league. McVay needs to expand his offense to exploit the talent he has there. Goff also needs to include his TE's early in his reads and increase their targets.

WR: Woods, Cooks, Kupp, Henderson - The Rams probably have the best 4 deep WRs in the NFL, and that doesn't include the two TEs. Nothing more be said.

DEFENSE

DE (5T): Ogbo - Brockers might not be extended. I'd be surprised if he is. He lacks the speed to play off the edge. If he is re-signed it won't be to play DE. He'd be playing NT and he would have to take a pay cut as he hasn't played to his $10.7M salary this year. He's a perfect 4-3 3T DT not a 3-4 DE. Ogbo has shown enough this year so far that he has the talent to play DE in this system. He should be starting this year in reality truth be told.

NT (1T): Gaines - He should be starting at NT now. He's outplayed SJD in his limited snaps. He's a perfect fit for this defensive scheme. SJD has one move that is bullrush. If he can't bullrush the center and win (which has been very rare) he can't get off the block, and gets blown out of position regularly. Gaines is better defending the run. He's stouter and most of all he can shed blocks, which SJD simply can't. SJD is the reason this team continues to be soft against the run in the middle.

DT: AD - What needs to be said? Only that they need better behind him than Smart.

OLB: Fowler - I fully expect him to be extended. He's justified the faith the Rams had in him when they traded for him. In this system he's blossomed into the outside rusher that the defense needs.

OLB: Ebukam - Forget Mathews, his stats especially his sacks are misleading. Clay doesn't set a strong edge against the run and his sacks were mostly gimme's setup by AD. Sampson is a complete OLB who can play in coverage, set a hard edge in the run game and be a force in the blitz package. You can't ask for more. He's repeatedly shown he's an impact player. IMO Mathews is an expensive backup at this point in his career.

MIKE: LIttleton - Has proven in two consecutive years he's a quality MIKE. Guys like him are hard to find. He's another impact player you need.

MO LB: Young - He hasn't played except on ST's. He has the speed and talent to be a good ILB. This redshirt year should serve him well to strengthen, and improve his technique. IMO he will be the starter at this position next year.

CB: Ramsey & Long - There is no question that Ramsey is an elite CB. IMO Long has the talent and the physical traits you want in a boundary CB (length, speed & agility) to bookend Ramsey. Next year Wade will finally have the shut down press coverage CBs he's always wanted.

Safety: Johnson & Rapp - Wade loves to play man on the boundaries, zone with his LB's, and cover 1 with a single FS. In Johnson & Rapp Wade has exactly the kind of talent he wants to really play his scheme. Rapp is showing this year how really good he is as a zone SS. He's aggressive, reads passes well & tackles well. Johnson has shown he's got good range and the ability to read and react well as a deep cover safety.

IMO this team is complete with its starters right now. Regardless of how this team fares this year, they are now built to be a contender for a long time. This year's draft will be to build depth and development of the future starters. Once the o-line comes together, this team will truly be a contender, dare I say dynasty in the making? They certainly have the young talent for it.

God it's exciting to watch this!