Really Long---2020: looking forward a bit

[SteveBrown]

Below are some thoughts as it pertains to the 2020 outlook for the Rams; they have a ton of talent, and will have a very good 2020,
but I do think McVay's system is so predictable that it is hurting the offense; right now, the O line (the last 3-4 games) is not the reason
the offfense was producing 6 points against the Ravens.

Regarding O line---some detail:
1. Edwards has pro bowl tools at guard. Edwards blows people off the ball many times a game
in his drive blocking. He has great feet for a guard, and shows good intelligence --and he knows what to do in
pass pro...but doesn't
use leverage quite so well, yet. He is tall, so he has to adjust some more. If, if if he could be moved to LT,
I still don't like Corbett at guard....he is a 5pounder heavier Blythe--just watch the film to see. Blythe was a
good guard until people started game planning him because he was the weak link in the whole
offense; then the Rams coudln't run his way much anymore....thus Saffold's value was seen.
(Remember 2003, Wk 17 against the Lions when we couldn't win because Shaun Rogers
blew up our weak interior---yes, that included Timm, too). The Rams are running right a lot because
Corbett gets no movement
2. Evans has skills, and not such great balance in space, but very good feet and strength.
Eveans seems to be aware enough on double teams, and movement in space. He still doesn't know what
to do in pass pro on blitzes...he misses...but, he is a rookie. He is not as good as Hav now, but might be his
equal in 2 years. I would keep Hav at RT, and put Evans at Guard. We would have 2 power house guards who
can take it to D lineman. He doesnt' have technique or hi intelligence like Hav, that is obvious, but he is a good
RT, and maybe a near pro bowl level RG because of power, toughness and great feel

O line summary: if we get a very good LT, and have Noteboom as a backup then Evans and Edwards at guard with Hav at RT is a very good O line. Hav didn't lose any footspeed (he never had it), so he will be fine next year with a little weight loss, more weights and attitude back in line....that happens all the time in the NFL. Blythe (not Allen??) is good enough with 2 power house guards who also have good to great feet for guard level play.

3. McVay's system (this is not as coherent as above, lol)
IF the O line is top 5 (just need to secure LT), which it can be with the aforementioned lineman Goff becomes a very good QB, BUT only when McVay is 'right' or unpredictable in his playcalling.

The bummer is: McVay hasn't been right the entire season--against good defenses. McVay's system is NOT guarenteed to work even when the O line is good---vs Shanahan's systems which works with an avg QB, and medicore WRs and back up lineman (which both guards were their entire careers, pre-Shanny). McVay needs to not have an offense that runs the same plays and WR combos every single game. Woods and Kupp can be stopped by very good corners...people figured out, mostly, what the Rams will do (yes, of course awful pass defenses like AZ and BEngals are lost against the Rams---that is the exception in these days).

Summary: Even with 11 really good and talented players on offense, which the Rams have in their 6 skill positions, and I assume they will have in 2020 with their O line, they still are not guarenteed to have a good (top 8) offense if McVay continues what he is doing. The O line was giving Goff enough time in the Ravens game (on more than enough pass pro attempts), but the net result from even those good pass pro moments gave the Rams almost no return.
Yes, now, the problem is McVay. Yes, Corbett is mediocre, but the 2 rookies are playing well enough that the Rams can produce against a good defense...and yet, they don't. The Rams won't be switching out Cooks with anyone beter in 2020---and Kupp and Woods have reached their apex, mostly...really, come one, they won't get that much better. It is McVay that makes them even better....and until he gets it going great again the Rams will continue as a 9-7 team.

4. The last 3 drafts (Snead has done many good things)
'New' players from 2-6th rounds last 3 years: the Rams have had Joseph-Day, Edwards, Kupp, Obo (flashes), Rapp, Henderson (in tiny parts), Everett (more flashes coming). Snead has assembled a pretty dang good roster. I don't think it is below the Saints roster, or even the 49ers in the least bit. But those 2 teams have top 3 O coordinators and have found a way to run the ball every week, and have solid pass pro. The Rams have the talent on the roster to be a 11-5 to 13-3 team every year---if the O coordinator position produces at a top level. I am doubting that will happen, so the Rams need every player to be very good to be a great team (unlike the 49ers who have a lot of role players who are not complete players-see WR, guards, QB to name a few).

Summary: offensive coord is below avg: all the great players have produced an average offense...(again it is NOT the O line that is the problem now---it is McVay producing the same scripts every game). McVay has to add to his game, or become like Marty Schotteheimer who never could outcoach anyone in the playoffs when the 'real' coaches like Dungy in 2006 re-tooled his entire weekend over the last 14 days of the reg season to dominate in the playoffs.

5. Snead and the talent: Snead has done a great job; Ramsey was a risk, but those who know football see that when they play a team like Atlanta with a dominating WR, they can be shut down easily when you don't need to worry about the 9 routes. (which is why BCooks has such value---the FS is always worried--while with Josh Reynodls there is zero fear or concern). I like, and prefer Snead as a GM over the traditional guys.

6. Pay the piper: to get a 4-12 team to the super bowl in 2 years ya gotta 'pay' somewhere---sign an old OT and give him a too-big contract; sign a average (at the time) WR in Woods, pay Gurley to keep him happy; don't haggle on the contract, pay the man....ok, it didn't work out, that happens. If they didn' pay Gurley maybe they don't have the 2018 season. The Rams rallied around him....don't pay the captain, you have a mutiny. YOu can't say "Oh, no super bowl in 2018, so I can have playoffs in 2019"....you know that the super bowl appearance is priceless...and the Rams gave up a 2nd and 3rd (and more) to get Peters and Fowler and both came through in the playoffs...without them, we dont beat the Saints.....so did you want the super bowl for a 2nd and a 3rd? That is the risk you take. DYNAMICS change all the time...I hate Peters and am meh on long term on Fowler, but love what they did to get the Rams to the super bowl. Don't sign Gurly to the biggest contract and don't make those 2 trades, and maybe the Rams are 11-5 in 2018 and lose to Dallas...maybe, who knows.

summary:
The Rams had a huge setback in 2019 (10-6 mostly likely)...in 2022 you will look back and say 'ya, of course' that happens when you take 10 risks....look at the Bears, who took like 2 risks, where are they now?.....the Chiefs lost 4 games already, didn't they have a huge setback, even though they have the best QB in the world? DIdn't the Saints go 7-9 three years in a row with a HOFer at QB and a top 5 offense....how could that happen three years in a row? Asshole Face must really suck...why didn't the fire him? This is the NFL not your local 7-11.

Overall Summary:
The Rams are on a great course, and when they didn't sign Saffold I knew the O line would drop because Noteboom can't driveblock a 230 pound lber and Blythe was mediocre at best, but I assumed McVay worked out a plan to re-plan his game day attack. He did NOTHING until the 2 rookie lineman started playing....now he knows he is a has-been in 2020 if he doesn't change. The Youngest coach in modern history will find a way. Rams will be in the playoffs in 2020...and still won't be even if they are 10-6 this year. (ya, they beat Seattle and maybe Dallas).

My only question for 2020:
Does McVay know that Corbett is not a starting lineman in the NFL? Because if he hasn't figured that out, the Rams won't be in the playoffs next year. Is he depending on NOteboom to be the next LT....wow, then he has more faith than should be allowed for a super bowl coach. He needs to be in the super bowl in the next 2 years to stay on track....and Corbett will stop him, while Noteboom may be the straw that breaks the back. It seems like McVay is too loyal in a bad way (Edwards was ALWAYS better than Demby--yes, from day 1)

 

[Mister Sin]

So...uh...was there a Summery? lol jp

I think you’re spot on with a lot. I don’t think I have quite the confidence you do with the o line. I hope we keep Kromer. One bad year isn’t enough to change my opinion of him. I want to get a Quinton Nelson/Kyle Turley/Ritchie Incognito type again, someone to be feared.

I think we need to hope that cooks retires and frees up some space for us. I think we need a true #1 guy here. And I think he may be on the roster. I think Reynolds could be that guy with his physical attributes.

I think you’re spot on with McVey. He needs to stop running the same 4 formations and motions. We need to be unpredictable.

good read for me.

 

[GoodBadUgly]

My take on what McVay needs to do is very simple:

• Hire a play caller (McVay designs the plays/game plan, OC manages game day ebb and flow/adjustments)
• Play 2 TEs at least 10% more than currently, and even in 11 personnel, attack with TE. Attacking middle of field with TEs adds just enough to make rest of offense better
• Run draws and middle screens more
• Improve OL as has been discussed ad nauseam

I'd hate to see him abandon the same look formation/concept completely, just add more diversity to it and we're fine.

My $0.02.

 

[Merlin]

LT is the biggest piece of the puzzle. Are they going to go with Whit on an affordable extension and would he do that? Where he knows the plan is for Boom to replace him but if not he's in his last run on the blindside?

Or are they going to flip one of their guys in-house over there. Evans is the guy with the natural feet for the edge, been saying that since day one even though some of his pre-draft assessments questioned his feet. He has that dancing bear look you want just needs to keep working his mechanics.

I keep going back and forth on what I expect for next year. It changes week to week I mean it's a big puzzle that has multiple potential solutions. The key though is competition and IMO that is where they went wrong this year with Allen & Boom... They were given the positions.

But anyway starting with FA the left tackles tend to not hit the market unless they're old or have holes in their game. This offseason Anthony Castonzo (Colts) is the guy at LT for example, he's who every team would want to go get, but the Colts are 99% gonna lock that dude up. IF he hits the market the Rams would have to be a team that is all-in to go get him. Zero doubt about it. I just don't see him hitting the market unfortunately and in general that applies to LT as a whole.

Much more likely is OG for that reason. Those guys tend to hit the market more often as elite players, since teams can find interior OL easier in the draft. This plus the Redskins/McVay connection not to mention the fact we are likely to see Callahan join our staff this offseason means Brandon Scherff is the obvious addition. But even if not it is still more likely that interior OL quality is sitting there on the OL and the Rams can settle things down by adding one of them.

Sorting the OL for next year it looks a ton better with a good LT added in FA. But it also looks like a potentially dominant run game unit if they add a guy on the interior. We can expect a Center to be added in the draft too and let him compete with Allen (some will write Allen and/or Boom off but both those guys will be competing for jobs next camp). But overall yes I agree we have a lot of good pieces it's just who goes where.

Lastly one thing that looms as a huge question mark is Havenstein. Some think he's garbage. I think he's just too much of a liability vs speed rushers on the edge. Which means he might have value on the interior for us. I've been told that him failing the initial experiment at RG means he won't be able to do it. That may be correct particularly if we add a guy like Scherff who will bounce somebody to the bench for sure. But I haven't totally written him off just yet.

 

[BonifayRam]

Here's my thoughts here on your Austin Corbett comments:

AC's first 2 NFL Training Camps & Preseasons were with the Cleveland Browns. Browns had AC playing LT\OC\RT & RG not LG. AC was an LT in college. AC's arrival in the Rams was late this seasons. AC has been active since .....playing in 7 gms & started the last 3 @ LG. LG post will be his best post in the NFL. I would believe that AC's 2020 season should be much more productive with having a OTA's/TC & preseason under his belt with Kromer's instruction. I would not be surprised if AC overall weight in muscle goes up & forcefulness greatly improves for next yr.

I would think that Rob Havenstein fully knows now that he has some serious competition for the starting RT post. OT Bobby Evans could continue to start for the rest of the season. Leaving Havenstien as a back up which he has never been. His future big $$$ contract is on the Rams salary cap chopping block & his time as a LA Ram jeopardise. I expect RH to right himself in the off season & if he does not he will be traded or released by the trading deadline 2020.

The problem is @ the LT post where Joe Noteboom knee health & rehabbing time & then playing condition is a very big question. When JN will be ready to start in this all important LT post total unknown stands to be after the 2020 bye...thus who will be the main blind side protector for Goff?

 

[AZRams]

My take on what McVay needs to do is very simple:

• Hire a play caller (McVay designs the plays/game plan, OC manages game day ebb and flow/adjustments)
• Play 2 TEs at least 10% more than currently, and even in 11 personnel, attack with TE. Attacking middle of field with TEs adds just enough to make rest of offense better
• Run draws and middle screens more
• Improve OL as has been discussed ad nauseam

I'd hate to see him abandon the same look formation/concept completely, just add more diversity to it and we're fine.

My $0.02.

On the TEs, yep...did it last week against Cards and it worked all day. Granted that team doesn't cover TEs and hasn't all year.

Do.It.

 

[Jacobarch]

My take on what McVay needs to do is very simple:

• Hire a play caller (McVay designs the plays/game plan, OC manages game day ebb and flow/adjustments)
• Play 2 TEs at least 10% more than currently, and even in 11 personnel, attack with TE. Attacking middle of field with TEs adds just enough to make rest of offense better
• Run draws and middle screens more
• Improve OL as has been discussed ad nauseam

I'd hate to see him abandon the same look formation/concept completely, just add more diversity to it and we're fine.

My $0.02.

I think mcvay is a great playcaller he just needs someone whispering in his ear on game day

 

[fearsomefour]

You are assuming McVay has the same game plan week after week.
What we are seeing is a lot of the same personal groupings and limited results.
That doesn’t mean the game plan or play calls are the same.
What we can tell from a far is execution is lacking.
Too soon to tell with Corbett.
Maybe Center.
Edwards and Evans on the right side is appealing. Although Hav coming back to RT and Edwards and Evans filling the G posts is likely the plan and the best case.
Landing a good quality at LT is a very hard thing to find and I doubt the Rams can.
Having Allen and Noteboom recover and provide depth is probably the best option at this time.
I would still sign a couple of cheap FA to round out depth/compete.

 

[PhillyRam]

You are assuming McVay has the same game plan week after week.
What we are seeing is a lot of the same personal groupings and limited results.
That doesn’t mean the game plan or play calls are the same.
What we can tell from a far is execution is lacking.
Too soon to tell with Corbett.
Maybe Center.
Edwards and Evans on the right side is appealing. Although Hav coming back to RT and Edwards and Evans filling the G posts is likely the plan and the best case.
Landing a good quality at LT is a very hard thing to find and I doubt the Rams can.
Having Allen and Noteboom recover and provide depth is probably the best option at this time.
I would still sign a couple of cheap FA to round out depth/compete.

Curious who is the C next year. Would they burn a high pick on a C? I saw teh Michigan center rated in teh 2nd round by some sites.. Ruiz. 320 lb kid. I would like to see more physicality at that position.

Maybe grab a guy like that then with the two 3rd grab a DT & DE.

Of course then what do you do at LT? Maybe Whit / Noteboom for one more year.

Or Corbett at LG and Edwards at LT?

 

[fearsomefour]

Curious who is the C next year. Would they burn a high pick on a C? I saw teh Michigan center rated in teh 2nd round by some sites.. Ruiz. 320 lb kid. I would like to see more physicality at that position.

Maybe grab a guy like that then with the two 3rd grab a DT & DE.

Of course then what do you do at LT? Maybe Whit / Noteboom for one more year.

Or Corbett at LG and Edwards at LT?

No idea what the Rams will do.
I would resign Blythe (he won’t cost much) and let him, Allen, Corbett, Shelton fight it out.
LT.....no idea.
Outside of a cheap, less than idea FA option (Penn cost Washington less than $2 M).
I don’t think the Rams have the trade capitol to trade for a starting LT. The current options are not great.
Noteboom probably won’t be back 100% at the start of camp, maybe he will be. Edwards was solid at RT, better at G. Evans at LT? Keep him on the right side. Hav? No.
Their best option may be Whitworth coming back for one last ride....hopefully at a lesser salary.
I’m using that top pick on DL. But the team could go C.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Reunite veteran Brandon Scherff with McVay at RG.

Edwards, Corbett & Brewer compete for starting role at LG. Cover your eyes here, but even Demby is likely given one last shot.

Trade Havenstein and make Evans our permanent RT.

Draft TCU LT Lucas Niang in the 3'rd round to compete with Noteboom.

Recent Wisconsin acquisition Nate Trewyn and fellow practice squad member Jeremiah Kolone are large Centers who will compete with the smaller Brian Allen, Corbett & Shelton, ... but add to the competition a larger mid- round draft pick like Clemson's Sean Pollard or Michigan's Cesar Ruiz.

jmo.

 

[Ram65]

I can't see the Rams having Havenstein go anywhere. It's a good contract that the Rams can get out of in 2021 without much of a cap hit. Let him compete at the RT/RG spot.

Bringing in a free agent like Sheriff upgrades the entire offensive line. Of course, the Rams could spend money by getting Whitworth to stay another year. There are a number of variables that could affect which way the Rams go. The good news is Edwards and Evan will be on the offensive line with Haventein in some arrangement. It's too early to tell what the Rams are going to do but, you know straightening out the offensive line will be a priority.

Rams have at least 4 more games to evaluate the current players.

 

[Riverumbbq]

View attachment 32482


I can't see the Rams having Havenstein go anywhere. It's a good contract that the Rams can get out of in 2021 without much of a cap hit. Let him compete at the RT/RG spot.

Bringing in a free agent like Sheriff upgrades the entire offensive line. Of course, the Rams could spend money by getting Whitworth to stay another year. There are a number of variables that could affect which way the Rams go. The good news is Edwards and Evan will be on the offensive line with Haventein in some arrangement. It's too early to tell what the Rams are going to do but, you know straightening out the offensive line will be a priority.

Rams have at least 4 more games to evaluate the current players.

That contract is exactly why Havenstein will be such good trade bait. jmo.

 

[Mojo Ram]

My expectations will be back up in 2020. McV needs to evolve his offense in the offseason. Number one priority IMO.
He can start by giving Goff a hot read vs the zero blitz.

 

[FrantikRam]

As most have pointed out, fixing the OL.

Here are the position groups we don't need to touch in the offseason:

QB - Goff and IMO grooming Wolford for that backup role
RB - obvious
WR - obvious
TE - I've been saying since last offseason, we have above average TEs, we just don't use them - I'd expect Blanton to get every opportunity to supplant Mundt
CB - despite how many people want to jettison one of the best nickel CBs in the NFL and a solid backup/spot starter in Troy Hill - this group is set - expect David Long to start next season opposite Ramsey, with Hill resuming his 4th CB duties and then Williams keeping the 5th spot

S - IF we don't cut Weddle - if we do cut him, expect a mid round draft pick

ILB - IF we re-sign Littleton - they were fine rolling with Kiser and then a S in passing situations, and now we're developing Reeder for some added depth - late round pick possible here

Which leaves OL - I would imagine they will look for just one starter from outside and then go "best 4" between Hav, Boom, Allen, Corbett, Evans and Edwards - Blythe should be gone in FA

DL - either a replacement for Brockers or depth would be a high priority

EDGE - this is another position that we wouldn't have to touch if we re-sign Fowler and keep Matthews, but I don't see that happening - Obo is coming along really well for depth



My favorite approach is having the starters set BEFORE the draft so that we can focus on depth/BPA. To accomplish this, I would:

Cut Weddle and Matthews
Re-sign Littleton and Fowler
Sign vet FA OL and DL - DL for cheap, OL hopefully a good one but would have to be a good value

This way our starting lineup would be pretty much set before the draft - we would need to place a high priority on a 3rd safety, but the good news is, our backup OL would pretty much be set once we sign a vet. DL and OL would still be the priority for the draft.

GZ will be interesting - if he wants top dollar for a kicker, I don't see how we keep him.

 

[Zaphod]

The problem is @ the LT post where Joe Noteboom knee health & rehabbing time & then playing condition is a very big question. When JN will be ready to start in this all important LT post total unknown stands to be after the 2020 bye...thus who will be the main blond side protector for Goff?

There is no way that they'll go into next season without adding someone who can play left tackle.

 

[Riverumbbq]

There is no way that they'll go into next season without adding someone who can play left tackle.

I agree, although doubt it will be an expensive free agent, especially if they still retain higher hopes for Noteboom as the long term answer. The draft can offer either a temporary LT to compete with Edwards while Noteboom is still recovering, or enough competition to actually win the job outright. Of course, this assumes that Evans beats out Havenstein at RT, otherwise it's likely a battle between Evans & Edwards to fill in temporarily for Noteboom until his return. Either way, we still need a quality swing tackle whoever wins the starting role. I personally favor the first scenario as it appears increasingly possible Edwards & Evans may be starting at OG & RT in 2020. jmo.

 

[ramfan46]

Go get Trent Williams for a couple of 3rds. He's not going back to Washington and he does have a bit of an injury history that will keep his value down a touch.

 

[PhillyRam]

Reunite veteran Brandon Scherff with McVay at RG.

Edwards, Corbett & Brewer compete for starting role at LG. Cover your eyes here, but even Demby is likely given one last shot.

Trade Havenstein and make Evans our permanent RT.

Draft TCU LT Lucas Niang in the 3'rd round to compete with Noteboom.

Recent Wisconsin acquisition Nate Trewyn and fellow practice squad member Jeremiah Kolone are large Centers who will compete with the smaller Brian Allen, Corbett & Shelton, ... but add to the competition a larger mid- round draft pick like Clemson's Sean Pollard or Michigan's Cesar Ruiz.

jmo.

They don't need a G... Only needs are a LT and a dominant C would be a nice to have. With this roster and cap, I see no reason to spend big money on a G.

 

[Riverumbbq]

They don't need a G... Only needs are a LT and a dominant C would be a nice to have. With this roster and cap, I see no reason to spend big money on a G.

Sorry, but I completely disagree with not needing a dominant veteran who can take on a leadership role for this OL unit in lieu of the departing Whitworth. With Blythe also heading down the road, we need some veteran experience to help guide the younger players, and Noteboom, Allen, Corbett, Edwards & Evans offer very little in terms of practical experience, know-how & wisdom pertaining to the requirements for building successful NFL level chemistry.

As it stands today, the Rams have 5 potential Centers entering 2020, and that's without Blythe. I would doubt they will want to spend heavily for a free agent Center in a market where there doesn't appear to be a lot of quality players available at the position next off-season. I can see the Rams acquiring another mid-round Center in the draft to compete with the others before admitting defeat in trying to train-up those they have already invested in.

While i'd prefer signing Scherff if possible, i'd attempt to re-sign Whitworth to a one year contract if a better, stronger veteran presence isn't available, but starting 5 kids next season doesn't inspire great confidence on a team which otherwise is quite good. jmo.