Rams seem to be stocked at CB

[rams1fan]

https://www.therams.com/news/countdown-to-camp-rams-cornerbacks-should-be-a-team-strength

Countdown to Camp: Rams cornerbacks should be a team strength

It’s the final week of summer break for the Rams, as staff, players, and coaches will check in for training camp at UC Irvine starting next Tuesday.

But today, we’re continuing our Countdown to Camp series by taking a look at Los Angeles’ cornerbacks.

CORNERBACKS

Newcomers: David Long Jr.

The Rams group of cornerbacks remains largely intact from 2018 heading into this new season. The group did lose veteran corner Sam Shields in free agency, but each of the starters — Aqib Talib, Marcus Peters, and slot corner Nickell Robey-Coleman — are all back for a second year together as the leads of the group.

Talib missed half the season in 2018 due to an ankle injury, but came off of injured reserve in early December. His play was a significant part of Los Angeles’ defensive improvement down the stretch. In 11 games with Talib — including postseason — the Rams allowed 17.8 points per game and 321.1 yards per game. In eight games without the veteran corner? Los Angeles allowed 401.3 yards per game and 30.8 points per game.

On the opposite side, Peters certainly benefitted from Talib’s presence. But defensive coordinator Wade Phillips also got to know Peters and his skillset better throughout the course of the season. Starting all 16 games, Peters intercepted three passes and recorded eight passes defensed in his fourth pro season.

One element of this season to watch: Both Talib and Peters are entering the final year of their current contracts. Peters is at the end of his rookie deal, but even at the age of 33, Talib hasn’t shown signs of slowing down.

Robey-Coleman has excelled as Los Angeles’ slot corner since initially signing with the club in free agency during the 2017 offseason. Last year, Robey-Coleman recorded an interception, four passes defensed, and three tackles for loss. For what it’s worth, Robey-Coleman led all NFC West corners with a 82.6 grade from Pro Football Focus.

Likely the first man off the bench, cornerback Troy Hill has been with the club since Week 17 of the 2015 season and recently put pen to paper on a two-year contract to keep him in L.A. through 2020. Hill started most of the games when Talib was on injured reserve, playing the early downs while Shields came on the field in known-passing situations. Hill intercepted two passes and recorded five passes defensed in 2018.

The only newcomer in the position group, David Long Jr. is a Los Angeles native and should be ready to contribute sooner than later. The No. 79 overall pick in this year’s draft, Long was a terrific cover corner at Michigan where — also according to PFF — he allowed just 18 receptions on 60 targets for 130 yards.

For depth, Kevin Peterson is returning from tearing his ACL during the Rams’ first preseason game at Baltimore last year. He looked poised to be a significant piece during the early going of training camp in 2018, after impressing in Week 17 of the 2017 regular season by making a pair of interceptions off 49ers QB Jimmy Garoppolo. Peterson also had five passes defensed in that game.

Dominique Hatfield also has significant experience with the Rams, having been with the club since 2017. He’s bounced between the active roster and the practice squad a couple times, and has mainly contributed on special teams.

Rounding out the group, Los Angeles brought Darious Williams to the club off waivers in October from the Ravens. He played sparingly on special teams, but was mainly inactive on gameday. Dont’e Deayon and Ramon Richards spent last season on Los Angeles’ practice squad.

———

At least for this year. I really liked Kevin Patterson last year until he got hurt. Assuming Rams keep 6 it will be between him and Hatfield.

After this year Talib and Peters contract end. But it seems there is some hope in the backups.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Wade is a smart DC. He knows that a strong defensive backfield is a must in a league that likes to throw the ball. He had an even better defensive back group in Denver, when they won the Superbowl in 2016. I'd take Chris Johnson over Peters, and Talib is a bit older now.

 

[Tailback]

Taylor Rapp, David Long, and Nick Scott are insanely good additions to what was already on the roster at DB. The secondary is really going to be good. I wish I had as much faith in the LB's....especially the OLB's.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Taylor Rapp, David Long, and Nick Scott are insanely good additions to what was already on the roster at DB. The secondary is really going to be good. I wish I had as much faith in the LB's....especially the OLB's.

I hope you are right. I'm more reserved when it comes to rookies. Rapp, Scott and Long appear to be good additions but we haven't seen them play in the NFL yet. I can't factor them in just yet.

 

[oldnotdead]

I respectfully disagree. I think CB depth is the biggest area of need. This is how I break it down. The Rams I think only carried 5 CBs on their roster. They probably will do so again.

RCB Talib, Hill
Slot Roby-Coleman
LCB Peters, Long

Talib at 6'1" and 32" arms has the length teams covet at the boundary CB position. He originally timed at 4.44 and watching him play he still probably runs in the mid to upper 4.5 range. Average speed for a boundary CB but with his exceptional length at the position, he has a tremendous play radius so he remains effective. The problem is his age being over 33 now. His experience also gives him a tremendous edge being able to diagnose the play quickly and accurately.

Hill was tendered at the beginning of this season. However, he can be released with no dead cap implications. He's been a marginal player since the beginning, with much of his issues being self inflicted off field problems. He's short with average arm length for his height, giving him a marginal play radius. He isn't particularly agile and IMO he's a cut waiting to happen.

Roby-Coleman is perhaps the shortest active CB in the NFL. He's 5'7" and 180 lbs, with slightly longer than average arm length and large hands. His pro day times were very fast (4.3 range) but his combine times were average 4.5 range. Watching him though it's clear he plays fast but what is apparent is his outstanding agility. What began to surface last year was a tendency to lose focus on his coverage and look for the splash play in the way Peters does. It was that kind of moment that surfaced in the infamous non call PI against New Orleans. There were other instances of that problem during the season. When he is on his game he's a very good slot CB.

Peters is living on his early years reputation as a shutdown CB. It's clear from his play last year he doesn't play to that level now. He's always looking for the splash play and gets baited into dropping coverage by savvy QB's. His rogue nature may be influencing Roby-Coleman. His cap dictates he stays this year, but I doubt he's re-signed. I see no way the team can trust him with a lucrative extension as he can then return to his glory seeking team be damned ways. All that said, when he wants to be a shut down CB he most certainly can be. He showed flashes of his abilities last year but it doesn't outweigh his liabilities.

Long is what you want in a boundary CB. Decent length and play radius, good agility, and good speed (4.45). He seems quick to read plays and has the talent to stay in a WR's hip pocket. David Long could be the gem of this draft, which would be saying a lot. Pair him with someone like Bradley Roby and Wade will have his lock down CBs next year.

All of the other CB's have serious issues with their play. Kevin Peterson's problem is he has marginal speed for the position. When a DB runs a 4.6+ he's really nothing but a zone CB or safety prospect. He will get toasted in man coverage. I'm very familiar with Wade Phillips defense having watched it first hand in San Diego, and it was continued to be used by John Pagano the Chargers DC. Ideally it is a man coverage base scheme. But here in LA the Rams didn't have the CB's to play man coverage like Phillips wants to. That's why they signed Talib and Peters, hoping to have the two shutdown boundary CBs Wade covets. That all fell apart because of Peters going rogue and breaking coverage for whatever reason. I believe that is why they drafted Long.

I really think they don't really want to resign both Talib and Peters next year. Talib because of his age and Peters because he refuses to play the scheme.

None of those other CB's run sub 4.5 other than Darious Williams, who could be the 6th CB if they carry that many. Darious because of his size will probably backup Roby-Coleman. They can release Hill with no dead money or they can carry him one more year in hopes he revives his career.

 

[BonifayRam]

...........None of those other CB's run sub 4.5 other than Darious Williams, who could be the 6th CB if they carry that many. Darious because of his size will probably backup Roby-Coleman. They can release Hill with no dead money or they can carry him one more year in hopes he revives his career.

Just for your information....

{Donte Deayon.........During Thursday's Pro Day, the diminutive defensive dynamo notched a 37-inch vertical jump and a 10-foot-7 broad jump. His 40-yard dash times came home at 4.42 seconds and 4.47 seconds. Per Pauline, he looked "terrific" in position drills. Some squads will throw demerits his way on their boards due to his size, but outside of that drawback, he makes for an interesting sleeper corner prospect.}
https://www.rotoworld.com/college-football/nfl-draft/player/46205/donte-deayon

I share in your concerns @ outside corner too. However, Snead is in outstanding shape with Nickle & Dime (Slot) corners. He has four signed currently in NRC, Hatfield, Williams & Deayon. Snead might be okay with Talib, Peters, Hill, Rookie David Long & Peterson if they remain healthy but big changes in 2020 will take place. The pending UFA status at the end of this season of both our starting outside corners whom both had down seasons performances in 2018 plus the constant inconsistencies of top reserve Troy Hill should be a cause for concern.

Safety cadre unit would appear to be in very good shape for the 2019/2020 seasons with the recent additions of the talents of former all pro Eric Weddle/ Top draft selections Taylor Rapp & Special Team ace deep safety fast Nick Scott to be worked in with present star & sure future all pro JJ III plus hybrid Safety/LB'er Marquise Christian who came on strong in 2018 season & played a major role in the defense success. I would expect that Wade will depend & utilize heavy on his safety unit this season.

 

[Ram65]

Having Weddle as the QB of the secondary will make everyone a little better. Communication was a big problem last. You can never have enough CB depth. Talib, Peters and NRC are solid group. PETERS has to step up this year. He can be good enough but, needs to watch the penalties. Adding Long was an important move for depth and the future. He will be competing for next up and should take the spot sooner then later. Hill has been up and down so he competes with Peterson and others for backup spots. Rookie safety Rapp looks like he takes the time spot
Overall the Rams improved their CB and secondary depth in the draft.

 

[Merlin]

Having Weddle as the QB of the secondary will make everyone a little better. Communication was a big problem last. You can never have enough CB depth. Talib, Peters and NRC are solid group. PETERS has to step up this year. He can be good enough but, needs to watch the penalties. Adding Long was an important move for depth and the future. He will be competing for next up and should take the spot sooner then later. Hill has been up and down so he competes with Peterson and others for backup spots. Rookie safety Rapp looks like he takes the time spot
Overall the Rams improved their CB and secondary depth in the draft.

Yeah I keep going back to how terrible Peters looked when he didn't have Talib back there with him. At first I attributed it to him needing to draw the top wideout, but as the season went on it seemed like he simply didn't know wtf he was doing and couldn't cover anyone even when he wasn't drawing the top responsibility.

When Talib returned things normalized, but it seemed like Peters was drawing easy matchups on a lot of snaps too and of course was dropping more in zone. So I feel like we have a plus player at 2/3 of our "starting" CB positions, those being Talib and NRC in the slot. Peters is hit/miss so probably is moreso an average level player if you had to rank him among his peers.

So going back to your comment I wonder to what extent him being confused was an issue. And from there, if that is true, it would seem Weddle insulates them a bit with a more knowledgeable upgrade at safety who might help with that. I think Weddle is a very big upgrade over Joyner aside from everything else, but he does seem like he'll improve some of our marginal CBs through limiting mistakes here and there that Joyner would not have been capable of.

Anyway. In terms of ranking our CBs around the league I'd say we're in the 2/3 group of plus corners, which is the top third range, like somewhere around 10th. So if Peters plays well this season and more importantly if Talib can stay healthy we are in business. And where I see Long's role, IF they hit on him, is to upgrade us at CB4 so we don't have bottom roster buffoons in there as much on big downs/distances. Of course if he could somehow beat out Peters I would be ecstatic.

 

[snackdaddy]

Having Weddle as the QB of the secondary will make everyone a little better. Communication was a big problem last. You can never have enough CB depth. Talib, Peters and NRC are solid group. PETERS has to step up this year. He can be good enough but, needs to watch the penalties. Adding Long was an important move for depth and the future. He will be competing for next up and should take the spot sooner then later. Hill has been up and down so he competes with Peterson and others for backup spots. Rookie safety Rapp looks like he takes the time spot
Overall the Rams improved their CB and secondary depth in the draft.

I agree you need good safeties to compliment your CB's and make their lives easier. As good as Richard Sherman was he would not be elite without Earl Thomas. I think we have two of the better safeties in the league with Johnson and Weddle. I think we're in good shape long term with Rapp and Long. Long is one of those pesky man defenders receivers don't like. And we don't have to rely on them right now. They can gradually be brought along this year.

 

[jetplt67]

Nice write up and it seems spot on. Last year I feared that Peters would become a cancer with his antics and it seems he may have rubbed off on NRC a little. Hopefully Weddle and Talib can keep him in check.

 

[Selassie I]

An NFL team can never have enough CBs. Every team will suffer because of this at some point in every season. A sad truth.

 

[1maGoh]

Yeah I keep going back to how terrible Peters looked when he didn't have Talib back there with him. At first I attributed it to him needing to draw the top wideout, but as the season went on it seemed like he simply didn't know wtf he was doing and couldn't cover anyone even when he wasn't drawing the top responsibility.

When Talib returned things normalized, but it seemed like Peters was drawing easy matchups on a lot of snaps too and of course was dropping more in zone. So I feel like we have a plus player at 2/3 of our "starting" CB positions, those being Talib and NRC in the slot. Peters is hit/miss so probably is moreso an average level player if you had to rank him among his peers.

So going back to your comment I wonder to what extent him being confused was an issue. And from there, if that is true, it would seem Weddle insulates them a bit with a more knowledgeable upgrade at safety who might help with that. I think Weddle is a very big upgrade over Joyner aside from everything else, but he does seem like he'll improve some of our marginal CBs through limiting mistakes here and there that Joyner would not have been capable of.

Anyway. In terms of ranking our CBs around the league I'd say we're in the 2/3 group of plus corners, which is the top third range, like somewhere around 10th. So if Peters plays well this season and more importantly if Talib can stay healthy we are in business. And where I see Long's role, IF they hit on him, is to upgrade us at CB4 so we don't have bottom roster buffoons in there as much on big downs/distances. Of course if he could somehow beat out Peters I would be ecstatic.

He blew out his ankles the same time Talib did. It's unwise to leave out that fact while discussing his performance while Talib was out.

 

[Akrasian]

He blew out his ankles the same time Talib did. It's unwise to leave out that fact while discussing his performance while Talib was out.

Yup. It's been pointed out before, but Peters didn't get a chance to rest until the bye week, after which Talib was back too. Maybe Talib's return was the big factor, but I suspect it was a combination of that AND Peters actually getting a chance to fully heal.

 

[1maGoh]

Yup. It's been pointed out before, but Peters didn't get a chance to rest until the bye week, after which Talib was back too. Maybe Talib's return was the big factor, but I suspect it was a combination of that AND Peters actually getting a chance to fully heal.

I definitely agree that it's a combination. Nothing exists in a vacuum. That was more like what I meant, it's impossible to separate the injury from Talib being gone.

 

[Memento]

I'm a huge fan of Long. Also a fan of the Okie State defensive backs (Peterson and Ramon Richards).

 

[Merlin]

I definitely agree that it's a combination. Nothing exists in a vacuum. That was more like what I meant, it's impossible to separate the injury from Talib being gone.

Not sure I buy the injury excuse. Seem to remember Peters himsef denying it multiple times in interviews.

 

[Ram65]

Not sure I buy the injury excuse. Seem to remember Peters himself denying it multiple times in interviews.

I think he was a little bit hurt. Why make yourself more of a target by admitting you are injured. It isn't/wasn't his biggest problems.

I think he lacks timing when the ball is nearing the WR. He makes contact a little too early. That is when he is playing man and is on task. He got away with some during the year and the SB but, got some penalties too. Sometimes he gives too much cushion. I don't know who is at fault when lining up wrong or when the confusion starts on who is covering who. Hopefully, Weddle gets everyone on the right page. All eyes will be on Peters this year. Lets see how he responds this year with the new rules. Look for defenses to target him.

 

[Merlin]

I think he was a little bit hurt. Why make yourself more of a target by admitting you are injured. It isn't/wasn't his biggest problems.

I think he lacks timing when the ball is nearing the WR. He makes contact a little too early. That is when he is playing man and is on task. He got away with some during the year and the SB but, got some penalties too. Sometimes he gives too much cushion. I don't know who is at fault when lining up wrong or when the confusion starts on who is covering who. Hopefully, Weddle gets everyone on the right page. All eyes will be on Peters this year. Lets see how he responds this year with the new rules. Look for defenses to target him.

Well the reason I mention it 65 is because a lot of folks put it out there like it's a fact. But the Rams have never said he was injured, nor has he, at least to my knowledge and old and fading mind.

He may have been knicked up like all players get as we all know. But beyond that? Not sure I'm buying that particular argument.

Good thing here is he's in his contract season. So I think he's gonna be more ready with a more complete knowledge of the scheme (which is where I think his prob was) and hopefully full effort snap to snap. And if not, well, here's hoping they see enough from Long to phase his @$$ out this season before he walks in FA.

 

[nighttrain]

[QUOTE="Ram65, post: 1214312, member: 3360"]I think he was a little bit hurt. Why make yourself more of a target by admitting you are injured.[/QUOTE]
train

 

[Austin]

I think there was more than a little bit of bravado playing into Peters' insistence that he was healthy. He clearly wasn't, and his recovery forecast was quite clear that he wouldn't be.

There's perceived honor in eschewing all excuses and owning up to your poor play, whatever circumstances you're playing under, and MP seems like a guy that's all in on that.

And at the end of the day, I acknowledge this is speculation on my part, but I feel pretty strongly that I'm reading it right.