Rams inquiring about ju-ju

[jrry32]

I'm not denying his talent nor am I saying swing for the fences with the 2nd rounder. I just don't think he has a huge ceiling, something you touched on a few posts ago when you said he's a solid #2 wr. In a year full of free agent wrs that are solid #2 WRs I don't think using our top pick on one is the best use of resources. Then there's the fact that if tavon has a bounce back year he's capable of in an actual NFL offense, he'd be the #2 anyway.

No, I said I think he can be a good #2 WR. Obviously, that's not his full potential. Players rarely reach their full potential. The guys I compared him to are WRs who have shown the ability to put up 1000+ yards and 10+ TDs.

Frankly, I disagree that this is a FA full of #2 WRs. It has a handful of them, and they're going to cost a lot.

Tavon has never shown the ability to be a #2 WR. I'd love for Tavon, Mike Thomas, Pharoh Cooper, etc. all to prove that they are quality NFL WRs. But I'm not going to assume that they're that until they prove it. We need to give Goff help. That entails not assuming the best about our guys. I'd rather prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

What's the downside? We end up with too many good WRs? I'm good with that.

But, if they prefer to address WR via free agency, I won't disagree. I'd love for us to get proven, veteran WRs. At this point, however, we have nothing at WR. So I support them looking into Juju.

I also think we can agree that it's way too early to give up on cooper and/or Thomas as potential long term option after the pathetic offensive coaching/scheme that had to work with in their only season as pros.

I also think it's too early to give up on some of our OLs. But I'm still bringing in competition. If they're good enough, they'll earn the job.

Can't say it would be bad to draft a guy with clear talent like juju, I just don't think it's the best option and would be a bit let down tbh. But hey, to each his own

I think there are a lot of good options. Juju is one of them. I sure as hell don't want to go into 2018 saying, "How good would Goff be if we had WRs who could catch the ball and separate?" Yet, we've been doing that every year since the days of Holt and Bruce ended.

 

[jrry32]

Personally would rather grab Zay Jones in the 3rd if available. Guy was born with hands made out of stickum and is as fluid as water.

I like Zay Jones a lot, but I don't think he's the immediate impact player that Juju is, and I think he's not as safe of a prospect. Would love to get that kid on this team, though.(same with Ishmael Zamora)

 

[Merlin]

If I'm Snead I'm thinking round 1 value there at our round 2 pick, which is very possible with CB or DE. Juju would be a need pick, and I wouldn't sh!t myself over it since it is a fit, but I think they can do better with a BPA choice there and our wideout position settled down with the addition of a FA like Garcon.

BPA is what I'm after if I am Snead. He has to demonstrate a massively productive draft this year to both prove he can be the guy building the roster, not to mention set this new regime up for success.

 

[jrry32]

If I'm Snead I'm thinking round 1 value there at our round 2 pick, which is very possible with CB or DE. Juju would be a need pick, and I wouldn't sh!t myself over it since it is a fit, but I think they can do better with a BPA choice there and our wideout position settled down with the addition of a FA like Garcon.

BPA is what I'm after if I am Snead. He has to demonstrate a massively productive draft this year to both prove he can be the guy building the roster, not to mention set this new regime up for success.

BPA is such nonsense. There is no such thing as a BPA. Everybody rates players differently. I might have a first round grade on Juju. You might have a third round grade on him. If I drafted him in the second, it wouldn't mean he wasn't my top player because you saw him differently.

I'm ranting here and unfairly going off on you, but I constantly see the "just draft the BPA" line. Teams generally go by their draft board. They generally are drafting their BPA.

 

[Merlin]

BPA is such nonsense. There is no such thing as a BPA. Everybody rates players differently. I might have a first round grade on Juju. You might have a third round grade on him. If I drafted him in the second, it wouldn't mean he wasn't my top player because you saw him differently.

I'm ranting here and unfairly going off on you, but I constantly see the "just draft the BPA" line. Teams generally go by their draft board. They generally are drafting their BPA.

BPA starts with a properly stacked board. Fish and Snead's boards were inevitably stacked to fail, to promote non-BPA when it came to certain positions. I am confident this group is going to stack their board just fine, and the CB group is absolutely insane. It's cool that you'd take Juju there, and I'm not faulting it. But I seriously doubt he'll be the BPA there when we're on the board.

I want a round one value there at that pick plain and simple. No worries on agreeing to disagree.

 

[Picked4td]

Just to play Devils advocate, you said that you would rather sign a number 2 wide out than use a second round pick on one. I think it's quite the opposite. Why spend 10 million a year on a number 2 guy when you can draft one with similar or greater upside for more than half the price? From a draft standpoint, finding a number one reciever in round 2 is a bit tough. That's exactly where I'd want to grab a number 2 guy

Well personally I wouldnt spend much on a FA wr, but thats a different argument for another day. While I get what you're saying about a younger and cheaper WR in the draft is better than a expensive vet in FA, I'm not looking at it as WR only. Im looking at the whole roster. I feel like FA for WRs is pretty deep this year and it would make more sense to spend there and draft elsewhere with our top pick (say pass rusher or CB) rather than spend on what I feel is a more limited and less talent pass rusher and CB group of FAs.

 

[jrry32]

BPA starts with a properly stacked board. Fish and Snead's boards were inevitably stacked to fail, to promote non-BPA when it came to certain positions. I am confident this group is going to stack their board just fine, and the CB group is absolutely insane. It's cool that you'd take Juju there, and I'm not faulting it. But I seriously doubt he'll be the BPA there when we're on the board.

I want a round one value there at that pick plain and simple. No worries on agreeing to disagree.

There is no such thing as a properly stacked board (when looking at things prospectively). Opinions are like asssholes; everybody has one.

The concept of BPA is a total illusion. Like the "it factor," it doesn't actually exist. It's a buzzword people use.

Anyways, if you don't think he's worth drafting there, that's fine. I disagree, but like I said earlier, everybody has an opinion.

 

[jrry32]

Well personally I wouldnt spend much on a FA wr, but thats a different argument for another day. While I get what you're saying about a younger and cheaper WR in the draft is better than a expensive vet in FA, I'm not looking at it as WR only. Im looking at the whole roster. I feel like FA for WRs is pretty deep this year and it would make more sense to spend there and draft elsewhere with our top pick (say pass rusher or CB) rather than spend on what I feel is a more limited and less talent pass rusher and CB group of FAs.

This isn't like the draft, though. It's a free market system. We can go after any WR, pass rusher, or CB. Yea, we have less choices at pass rusher and CB than at WR, but that doesn't mean we can't get an equivalent player.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm not denying his talent nor am I saying swing for the fences with the 2nd rounder. I just don't think he has a huge ceiling, something you touched on a few posts ago when you said he's a solid #2 wr. In a year full of free agent wrs that are solid #2 WRs I don't think using our top pick on one is the best use of resources. Then there's the fact that if tavon has a bounce back year he's capable of in an actual NFL offense, he'd be the #2 anyway.

I also think we can agree that it's way too early to give up on cooper and/or Thomas as potential long term option after the pathetic offensive coaching/scheme that had to work with in their only season as pros.

Can't say it would be bad to draft a guy with clear talent like juju, I just don't think it's the best option and would be a bit let down tbh. But hey, to each his own

Yeah, I would rather they fill holes in free agency. That is usually every teams plan though. I am not as high on Juju as some and would be disappointed with the pick.

BPA is such nonsense. There is no such thing as a BPA. Everybody rates players differently. I might have a first round grade on Juju. You might have a third round grade on him. If I drafted him in the second, it wouldn't mean he wasn't my top player because you saw him differently.

I'm ranting here and unfairly going off on you, but I constantly see the "just draft the BPA" line. Teams generally go by their draft board. They generally are drafting their BPA.

I disagree. The argument is BPA over need. Don't put need ahead of superior players. If each team stacks it's board independently they still rate the players. I totally see his point and bring this up every year. If a draft is very deep at a certain position then in round 2 it would stand to reason that the position will have most of the best players. In other words, when the Rams pick in round 2 there is a very good chance that there will be a corner available that would be a first round pick in most other drafts. For that reason why not get the best player? If I can get a first round quality corner in round 2 then I do it. Most seem to say," you can get a good corner later" If you want the best players go with the strength of the draft. Forcing a need got us Quick and Donnie.

 

[jrry32]

I disagree. The argument is BPA over need. Don't put need ahead of superior players.

You're always going to take need into account. The Rams would be stupid to draft a QB, HB, or DT with our second round pick.

If each team stacks it's board independently they still rate the players. I totally see his point and bring this up every year. If a draft is very deep at a certain position then in round 2 it would stand to reason that the position will have most of the best players. In other words, when the Rams pick in round 2 there is a very good chance that there will be a corner available that would be a first round pick in most other drafts.

Maybe. There also might be a run on CBs earlier than our pick.

For that reason why not get the best player? If I can get a first round quality corner in round 2 then I do it. Most seem to say," you can get a good corner later" If you want the best players go with the strength of the draft.

There is no objective best player. I'm not taking a CB because there's a lot of talent there in this draft. I'm taking a CB if he's my best rated player at that spot when taking need, positional value, and talent into account. The fact that there's so much talent there makes it more probable that CBs will be at the top of my board, but it doesn't guarantee anything.

Forcing a need got us Quick and Donnie.

No, it didn't. Erroneous talent evaluation got us Quick and Donnie. If we had forced the need with Alshon Jeffery and DeSean Jackson, both of whom were first round talents, we'd be sitting here talking about how we went BPA with that pick.

 

[Dxmissile]

Personally would rather grab Zay Jones in the 3rd if available. Guy was born with hands made out of stickum and is as fluid as water.

He ran faster then expected he can definitely be had in the 3rd round.

 

[DaveFan'51]

If I'm Snead I'm thinking round 1 value there at our round 2 pick, which is very possible with CB or DE. Juju would be a need pick, and I wouldn't sh!t myself over it since it is a fit, but I think they can do better with a BPA choice there and our wideout position settled down with the addition of a FA like Garcon.

BPA is what I'm after if I am Snead. He has to demonstrate a massively productive draft this year to both prove he can be the guy building the roster, not to mention set this new regime up for success.

I agree " BPA" no matter which side of the Ball in round 2 with the Rams 1st pick!!

 

[LACHAMP46]

What did JuJu run? Anybody got a number?

 

[OldSchool]

What did JuJu run? Anybody got a number?

Number I saw was a 4.54.

This guy is doing great work on a doc.


View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CHVnRw2DFynXj-tMwo8osc6gVuKyroyhPKL61MxOCoo/edit#gid=30

 

[InnovatedMind]

Number I saw was a 4.54.

This guy is doing great work on a doc.


View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CHVnRw2DFynXj-tMwo8osc6gVuKyroyhPKL61MxOCoo/edit#gid=30

What does the grade mean?

 

[shaunpinney]

need, positional value, and talent

This is the order that I'd draft too...

Need comes into account when were talking player value. I can't see us drafting a HB or QB ehn you have the best available CB hanging around...

 

[OldSchool]

What does the grade mean?

Don't know it's not my doc.

 

[jrry32]

What does the grade mean?

I am assuming that's projected pick.

This is the order that I'd draft too...

Need comes into account when were talking player value. I can't see us drafting a HB or QB ehn you have the best available CB hanging around...

It wasn't really in any order. I think you combine all three when stacking your board. I'd start with talent then separate within each cluster of similarly talented players based on need and positional value.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

You're always going to take need into account. The Rams would be stupid to draft a QB, HB, or DT with our second round pick.

That is stating the obvious. However, if you have three players that fit a need and one of them has a much higher grade than the others, then that is the one you take, even if it is not quite as big of a need.

 

[jrry32]

That is stating the obvious. However, if you have three players that fit a need and one of them has a much higher grade than the others, then that is the one you take, even if it is not quite as big of a need.

But that's not true BPA. You're taking need into account. That's my point here. It's why I railed so hard against the notion of the Rams just going true BPA. It doesn't exist, and even if it did, it wouldn't make a lot of sense.

Like every team out there, I'm sure the Rams stack their board based on where they rate talent (taking guys off the board who don't fit their scheme or have certain red flags), and then they delineate in each cluster of talent based on need and positional value.