Question for the Watkins and Tavon advocates...

[Psycho_X]

All I know is Watkins is our best redzone threat. If he only had a couple of touchdowns to go with his average yardage I'd be less inclined. But right now I don't see a player on the team that can both stretch the field commanding the defense's best CBs and can also be relied on in the redzone to physically beat anyone defending them. Maybe Reynolds eventually if he adds a little bulk to his frame but he's obviously got a ways to go. I feel very confident that if Watkins is here next season and he plays 16 games he'll get close to 1,000 yards and have 10-15 touchdowns.

TA... nah I'm good. He adds some flavor to the Rams offense but it certainly isn't worth his contract anymore. Rams need to pick up a scatback in the offseason and it'd instantly cure our need of TA. Give his money to Sammy.

 

[“Turbo set!”]

Way too many excuses for Watkins on this forum.

Why can't he be an Antonio Brown? Why can't he be a DeAndre Hopkins? There isn't a legitimate reason.

How about this? He isn't as good as everyone thinks he is.

 

[Gunslinger78]

Dude, Watkins is a beast. In addition to being a deadly deep threat with his spee,d height, jumping, and catching ability. He is also very good at blocking. So much so that he appears to be the lead blocker on all screens and outside zone plays to TG3-30.

Tavon would be the best slot receiver in the NFL, IF HE COULD CATCH! I don't think he sucks, not at all. He makes good football decisions; he doesn't lose yards when his number is called. He makes every effort to avoid being tackled and he sails out on every fake reverse we run. He is good, but he needs to work on his catching so he can get the damn ball in space verses corner backs that can't tackle!

All things considered. This playoff run is his chance to prove that he is better than #10. if he can't, well shit, that's on him. He was the only player on offense worth watching until TG3-30 showed up

 

[Picked4td]

tavon just isnt that good, tbh

watkins its more complicated. yes his numbers arent great but hes playing in an offense with a potential mvp at RB, 2 other really good wrs that developed great chemistry with Goff all offseason, and an offensive system that is meant to spread the ball around. not to mention Watkins seemingly being the WR to draw the top cb and saftey help/double team. Personally, I dont understand how anyone can question what he brings to this offense and this team and how much he truly contributes. But I do understand the question of is it worth paying him, since theres only so much cap room and already so many other offensive weapons

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

On a few occasions this year Watkins has been open for a long range td. Goff didn't see him. Next year Goff will see him, you can bet on it. If Goff hit on a couple of those Watkins' numbers would look very different.

Rams would be crazy to let this guy go. They won't.

.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Why can't he be an Antonio Brown? Why can't he be a DeAndre Hopkins? There isn't a legitimate reason.

Because there aren’t many of those guys out there.

Many people don’t realize only 13 wide receivers eclipsed 1,000yds this season. So... more than half of the teams spread the ball around to many targets. Rams included.

AJ Green and Mike Evans barely hit 1000.

Den Bryant and Alshon Jeffery didn’t hit 1000 despite playing 16 games.

Points being; NFL offenses spread the ball around. There just aren’t many guys out there blowing up the yardage.

Got to evaluate the player in ways that don’t always show up in the stat sheet. But for the stat enthusiasts, Sammy’s 8 touchdowns ties him for 7th among WR.

 

[Ram65]

We haven't even seen Watkins in a playoff game yet so there is more to evaluate and observe.

Liked the entire post. Sammy could light it up but, he is still valuable if he doesn't. Defenses will be watching him closely which helps everyone else.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Why the pedestrian numbers in ‘17 for Watkins? [www.espn.com]

Because Goff is spreading the ball around to several targets and oftentimes Watkins isn't the first read (while at the same time his presence in taking teams #1 CB open things up for said others).

Why the abysmal numbers for Tavon in ‘17? [www.espn.com]

Same answer, plus he missed OTAs and most of training camp.

 

[Adi]

Sammy scored 8 tds...he doesn' need to have 1000 yards to make a difference . He is our red zone threat and no one else on this team can do what he does

Sammy will go off Tommorow!

 

[UKram]

id get sammy signed he is our biggest offensive priority

as for TA ... always felt he was overated ... been a decent player on some very bad teams which makes him look better than he actually was ...but Mcvay has played a blinder with him

im convinced that he was trade fodder for McVay untill that wrist injury in pre season ..which means we had trouble shifting him ..Mcvay knew he wasnt going to fit in this offense (didnt the watkins trade talks start very very early?)

signed woods in FA got Kupp reynolds in the draft then traded for Watkins (if that deosnt tell you mcvay wasnt confidnet in TA nothing will

starts him as KR/PR and struggles to hold the ball loses his job to PC
so macvay knows he cant hang at WR so starts him in the backfeld and the jets sweeps because he knows the team like him and is decent locker room guy

im not a guy that cares about how much a guy gets its not comning directly out of my pocket butr unless TA takes a HUUGE paycut he wont be here next year

 

[“Turbo set!”]

Way too many excuses for Watkins on this forum.

Why can't he be an Antonio Brown? Why can't he be a DeAndre Hopkins? There isn't a legitimate reason.

How about this? He isn't as good as everyone thinks he is.

Adding to what I said earlier. I actually like Watkins. I am just not sure there aren't better ways to spend the money he might be offered as a free agent. Woods is a 1-2 type receiver. I love Kupp but do wonder how durable he will be.
Receiver generally is one of the easiest positions to find.

If Goff is as good as we think he is he shouldn't need great receivers. TB12 has won without high priced receivers. Goff should be able to as well.

 

[Rambitious1]

First, Sean McVay seems to be at least among, if not THE most creative Offensive mind in the NFL, right? I mean, if any HC could develop and emphasize the strengths of an O player, it would be McVay, right?

Can I get an Amen on that?

Okay...

Here are my two questions.

Why the pedestrian numbers in ‘17 for Watkins? [www.espn.com]

Why the abysmal numbers for Tavon in ‘17? [www.espn.com]

It just seems strange (okay, mind boggling) that two such highly touted O players should struggle under McVay and in his imaginative O.

Goff didn’t
Woods didn’t
Kupp didn’t
Gurley didn’t

Hard to blame the scheme, the coaching, or the play calling over the 16 week season.

Is it just possible that these players aren’t all that? Certainly compared to general expectations?

Watkins wasn’t a no-show, although I think it’s fair to say that he fell far short of general expectations. Hardly a ‘17 resume to justify a huge contract extension amount. At least IMO.

But Tavon? Hardly know where to start. I’ll just say that he has pegged my disappointment meter.

Put it this way. If neither are a Ram next year it wouldn’t cause me to fall out of my recliner. With apologies to the late Frank Sinatra, “If you can’t make it here, you can’t make it anywhere”.

I am much more forgiving to Watkins than I am Austin.
He’s new to the team, players everything. Also, we don’t know how fast/well he learns.
I’m willing to take a chance on him.

Tavon.....he’s on ultra thin ice with me. And I can hear the ice cracking from here.

 

[Stl2La]

We agree on Tavon, OldSchool.

Now, about Watkins? I get your argument about effect on game trumping mere receiving stats.

Let me ask you a question, though.

When you heard that Watkins was acquired in the trade, what went through your mind?

I’m guessing that it was something more than 39 catches and 593 yards. Especially in a contract year.

It certainly was for me.

You can’t just conviently leave off the fact that he leads our team in td catches lol.

 

[Stl2La]

Way too many excuses for Watkins on this forum.

Why can't he be an Antonio Brown? Why can't he be a DeAndre Hopkins? There isn't a legitimate reason.

How about this? He isn't as good as everyone thinks he is.

Bc they all get 150+ targets that’s why.

 

[psxpaul]

I would let Watkins test free agency, because I don't think he'll get a ton of money. He couldn't stay healthy in Buffalo and has not had #1 WR numbers this year. If some team gives him #1 WR money, then that's their mistake.

 

[Rams43]

Tying Tavon to Watkins is ridiculous 43. I know you know that. It's an insult to a real WR who actually catches the ball and can stretch the field. So let's keep this to Watkins, because Tavon honestly isn't worth discussing.

Watkins has made plays when the Rams throw the ball to him. He isn't always a top read, and this offense is designed to go away from him if the look shows him with help over the top. You might hate it, but it's hard to argue with RESULTS. It works.

If there is anything to criticize, it's that he's open a lot when the read doesn't get to him. THAT is McVay and how he sets the reads for a given opponent. So IMO what you have going here is that McVay is getting used to what he can trust Sammy to do, Goff is getting used to what he can trust Sammy to do while he also grows as a QB, and Sammy is getting more and more comfortable in this offense.

I want the Rams to draft defense, and to sign a couple of our DBs to ensure our defense doesn't crash and burn next year. If they don't sign Sammy, or tag him at the least with a transition tag to allow for matching his offer, then they'll have to find an X receiver potentially in the draft. WRs on the open market are coveted man, it isn't easy to get a guy of his ability, but he loves it here so why not get him signed.

Several things, Merlin.

My point in the thread was to illustrate that two O players have underwhelmed this year, even under the direction of McVay. I did not intend to equate their relative underachievements. I agree that there is no comparison on that point. Just trying to raise the issue that when 2 highly touted O players struggle even in a friendly system directed by a sensational O mind, well, maybe it’s the players, you know?

Your point that Watkins is often open but Goff has already targeted another open receiver before he gets to Watkins in his reads makes sense. Too many open receivers is not a bad “problem” to have is it?

But it raises a question. If Watkins is getting such few targets because other receivers have already come open and been targeted, do we really need a $10 million+ WR as a 3rd or 4th option? As you pointed out, what McVay/Goff have been doing has been working.

I definitely agree that this will be a D oriented draft. But I disagree that a WR to potentially replace Watkins must gobble up a draft pick. Why not turn loose S&M to find, sign, and develop another Woods type FA? Time, money, and draft pick saved.

Look, I’m just trying to point out that there are legit alternatives to just writing Watkins a blank check in an amount exceeding $10 + million per.

 

[Kevin]

We had the highest scoring offense in the NFL this season. Everyone cannot have a career year, there is only one ball to share among them.

One thing I did not see in McVay's offense was a big contribution from the tight end position. Maybe Gurley was just too good, maybe we acquired too much talent at WR to ignore. I dunno, but I thought Everett and Higbee would have played a larger role since McVay featured Jordan in Washington.

 

[lockdnram21]

Give Goff and Watkins a whole of season to work out and hell be our top receiver

 

[Rams43]

I thought we finally had a guy who was capable of running all the routes but especially the deep route to open things up for the other receivers and Gurley while still having the ability to produce by himself. I didn't put any numbers to my thoughts on him I never do (I'm probably the only regular around here that never participated in the guess a score weekly thread). The Rams had the #10 passing offense after giving their offense week 17 off and mailing it in for 5 or 6 quarters in other games we were blowing out the other team. We led the league in scoring. Sammy Watkins contributed to all of that in ways that numbers can't measure.

Every week people here, yourself included and in some cases led by, were creating posts talking about how we needed to involve player X Y or Z more in the offense. Usually centered around Watkins or the TE's. Yet week after week we put up 30 points. We were in the first year of a new offensive system with a QB who has now only started 22 games. BTW Goff likely would have hit 30 TD's if we played him week 17 and Brady never hit 30 TD's until 7th year as a starter when he hit 50.

I've rambled a bit here but my basic message is relax. Patience! Enjoy the ride! We're acting here in this thread like we're a finished product when our two offensive leaders are 23 year old kids! Numbers will increase, again we were 10th in passing yards but 24th in passing attempts. Let that sink in for a minute. The offense if fine, I wish people would let them grow and see what their final form is. Because the early results are freaking beautiful. I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

Also Watkins reduced numbers help us to be able to resign him IMO. If he were to have put up the numbers you feel he should have the cost would be double what they are now.

I’m another poster that ignores the “predict the score” threads, OldSchool. Lol.

Yeah, the O has done exceedingly well this year. And I do have patience. I mean, 14 years of Ram mediocrity will teach a fan all about patience.

But you never really answered my question. When Watkins was acquired, what were you expecting? Especially considering the cost of the 2nd plus Gaines?

 

[OldSchool]

I’m another poster that ignores the “predict the score” threads, OldSchool. Lol.

Yeah, the O has done exceedingly well this year. And I do have patience. I mean, 14 years of Ram mediocrity will teach a fan all about patience.

But you never really answered my question. When Watkins was acquired, what were you expecting? Especially considering the cost of the 2nd plus Gaines?

I did answer, I didn't put number expectations on him or any other player. He did what I hoped he would do, help to open up the offense with his deep threat and his ability to run every route.