QB Garrett Grayson has private workout scheduled with Rams

[LACHAMP46]

Actually this analysis has his deep ball as pretty impressive

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/garrett-grayson?id=2552371

As far as the short thing goes there is just one Qb currently in the NFL tall enough to see over 6'4" inch linemen Osweiler, the reast have to see in the lanes so an inch just doesn't give a QB an appreciable advantage
Additional point the noted "Auburn Connection" though not as prevalent is the Colorado State connection

I'll just say I believe all the QB's throw through the lanes...However, locating wr's does require a certain height for an optimal view, but it doesn't effect the best. I am always amazed at the way Brees glides around in the pocket....But it's obvious that it effects Russell Wilson down field vision...but that's not my main concern with Grayson...His lack of arm strength, the actual velocity of the ball is a problem. He didn't practice lobbing those passes around versus big time competition. He does have some practice at alluding rushers, but they aren't like the guys that'll be chasing him on Sunday's...I think playing in a major conference gives QB's a great preview. I don't have numbers, but beside Collin Kaepernick, name a small school QB to go to the playoffs in the last 3 years?

 

[Athos]

I don't have numbers, but beside Collin Kaepernick, name a small school QB to go to the playoffs in the last 3 years?

Does Flacco count?

 

[jrry32]

I'll just say I believe all the QB's throw through the lanes...However, locating wr's does require a certain height for an optimal view, but it doesn't effect the best. I am always amazed at the way Brees glides around in the pocket....But it's obvious that it effects Russell Wilson down field vision...but that's not my main concern with Grayson...His lack of arm strength, the actual velocity of the ball is a problem. He didn't practice lobbing those passes around versus big time competition. He does have some practice at alluding rushers, but they aren't like the guys that'll be chasing him on Sunday's...I think playing in a major conference gives QB's a great preview. I don't have numbers, but beside Collin Kaepernick, name a small school QB to go to the playoffs in the last 3 years?

Joe Flacco
Tony Romo
Ben Roethlisberger
Andy Dalton
Alex Smith

And if we're considering some big names that have played somewhat recently beyond the three year mark...you can't forget about Kurt Warner and Brett Favre. There are a lot more names to be added to the list if you keep going back.

 

[Athos]

Joe Flacco
Tony Romo
Ben Roethlisberger
Andy Dalton
Alex Smith

And if we're considering some big names that have played somewhat recently beyond the three year mark...you can't forget about Kurt Warner and Brett Favre. There are a lot more names to be added to the list if you keep going back.

I'd say many of the modern top QBs went to smaller schools. Seems to be the case. And the Mannings are the only greats of late I can think of from the SEC.

 

[jrry32]

I'd say many of the modern top QBs went to smaller schools. Seems to be the case. And the Mannings are the only greats of late I can think of from the SEC.

It's pretty evenly dispersed right now. If you look at the top 25 QBs in Passer Rating last year, you have:
SEC - 4
Big 10 - 3.5(Russell Wilson)
ACC - 3.5(Russell Wilson)
Pac-10 - 4
Non-FBS - 3
Mountain West - 3
Big 12 - 1
Big East - 1
C-USA - 1
MAC - 1

And the you have Cam Newton and Nick Foles at #26 and #27 for the SEC and Pac-10.

 

[jrry32]

BTW, I want to make it clear that I am not firmly against drafting a QB. Just firmly against reaching for one. I'd be totally cool with them drafting Grayson in the 4th round.

 

[fearsomefour]

EXCELLENT!!!!!
I have been talking him up for a couple of months now. I love this information.
If he is a dud I will be eating major crow.

 

[fearsomefour]

BTW, I want to make it clear that I am not firmly against drafting a QB. Just firmly against reaching for one. I'd be totally cool with them drafting Grayson in the 4th round.

I think Grayson will go in the second or third round....depending on how quickly the higher rated guys go.
He is my favorite QB in this draft (as I have said 100 times on here and probably will 50 more before the draft) and I would be stoked to get him in the 3rd.

 

[Thordaddy]

Since we're doing addition and subtraction, are you subtracting the height lost for an OL sitting in their stance to maintain leverage as well as adding the height gained from the QB gaining depth in this drop?

Not to mention the fact that the interior OLs are on average shorter than the OTs.

There are a number of QBs in the NFL that have no issues with vision over the OL.

Accounted for by the fact that his stance raises the defender and FWIW other than the head and helmet even a six foot Qb can see over the shoulder pads of the same lineman which is part of the lanes so at most there are three 12" wide blind spots that few can see over. It's simple math.
I'd draw some diagrams for ya if I knew how , but it's not that important to me I've made the case.

 

[jrry32]

Accounted for by the fact that his stance raises the defender and FWIW other than the head and helmet even a six foot Qb can see over the shoulder pads of the same lineman which is part of the lanes so at most there are three 12" wide blind spots that few can see over. It's simple math.
I'd draw some diagrams for ya if I knew how , but it's not that important to me I've made the case.

Well, this "simple" math is failing to make your point because I consistently see QBs that are 6'4" and taller have no issues climbing the pocket and seeing over the interior OLs or throwing over the interior OL on shorter or quicker passes.

In fact, here's 6'4" Sam Bradford showing no issues with his vision as he throws over the OL:

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000261325/Bradford-third-TD-pass


So I guess I'm not sure where you're going with this? There are plenty of QBs tall enough to throw without throwing lanes. Which was the original point. Now, you seem to be conceding that only the head is the issue. So some QBs can throw over the OL without (major) issue.

Problem is that with each inch you lose, the harder that is. Being 6'2" isn't a great hindrance but it's not nearly as beneficial as being 6'4" or 6'5". You're not going to have the same vision in the pocket or the same ability to throw over the OL(assuming your release point isn't extraordinarily high).

 

[Thordaddy]

Well, this "simple" math is failing to make your point because I consistently see QBs that are 6'4" and taller have no issues climbing the pocket and seeing over the interior OLs or throwing over the interior OL on shorter or quicker passes.

In fact, here's 6'4" Sam Bradford showing no issues with his vision as he throws over the OL:

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000261325/Bradford-third-TD-pass


So I guess I'm not sure where you're going with this? There are plenty of QBs tall enough to throw without throwing lanes. Which was the original point. Now, you seem to be conceding that only the head is the issue. So some QBs can throw over the OL without (major) issue.

Problem is that with each inch you lose, the harder that is. Being 6'2" isn't a great hindrance but it's not nearly as beneficial as being 6'4" or 6'5". You're not going to have the same vision in the pocket or the same ability to throw over the OL(assuming your release point isn't extraordinarily high).

Sorry man , but "failing to make a point to you and actually failing to make the point are two different things. OK SO I understated this as being simple math ,simple is I suppose relative to one's acumen, so yeah it is physics as well as in vectors .
As far as the genesis of this discussion goes between we two ,it goes back to a disagreement about Davis who is 6'2" and Hill who is 6'4" and the impact the two inches being profound.

NOW I have offered science, on the other hand ,most of the time ( I say most because I attempt to avoid globalizing ) I've seen from the other side what is called "anecdotal evidence " which is at once UN- scientific and easy to refute with counter anecdotes and it goes round and round, when in point of fact it proves nothing except attempts to bend supposition into fact to fit the original premise. SO I will refrain from that sort of " evidence .
If it is your wish to continue and to above all be 'right" or to "win " this debate knock yourself out , the people who have read this and "get" where I come from will and others won't, most of my purpose here has never been to convince you , rather to put forth a more objective slant on things.
SO I will , before this becomes one of our infamous "steel cage matches " I will conclude we can agree to disagree and in that spirit i will give you the last word .
However since there seems to be an affinity here for anecdotes, in back to back years what is probably the shortest starting Qb in the league Wilson and one of the taller Brady have won the SB and but for Wilson throwing a very similar int as the 6' 4" Hill did to lose to the Chargers it's very likely the shorter QB would have won both SBs which of course proves nothing but it does give rise to another possibility that being, for each inch lost there COULD be a component of added mobility when utilized in a judicious manner might be more than any height "advantage" in today game where almost every team has an elite pass rusher capable of moving the QB off "his spot".

Again I'm done with this argument , I'd like to thank you for bringing me back to HS physics cuz ya see there was IMO the prettiest girl in the school who wore short skirts as was the fashion then and after 30 minutes of being turgid I would aprise her of how high it had hiked availing me of the opportunity to be a misogynist and come off like a hero

 

[LACHAMP46]

Does Flacco count?

As soon as I left my home, I thought of Flacco.....

Joe Flacco
Tony Romo
Ben Roethlisberger
Andy Dalton
Alex Smith

And if we're considering some big names that have played somewhat recently beyond the three year mark...you can't forget about Kurt Warner and Brett Favre. There are a lot more names to be added to the list if you keep going back.

Alex Smith (Utah), and Andy Dalton did not go to small schools....but I'll give ya Romo, Big Ben, and Flacco.....

 

[Thordaddy]

Well, this "simple" math is failing to make your point because I consistently see QBs that are 6'4" and taller have no issues climbing the pocket and seeing over the interior OLs or throwing over the interior OL on shorter or quicker passes.

In fact, here's 6'4" Sam Bradford showing no issues with his vision as he throws over the OL:

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000261325/Bradford-third-TD-pa

FWIW maybe simple is a subjective term dependent upon individual acumen,and I did understate the number of scientific disciplines utilized bk there is physics as well as in vectors . Further "failing " to make my point to you and actually failing to make the point are two entirely different things.
Now, I have submitted science and tried to take this out of the realm of anecdotal evidence which is only an effort to "prove" a premise and goes round and round.
What IS more if we MUST consider anecdote , the last two SB championships were won by QB's on opposite ends of the spectrum and but for a stellar read by a DB would have been most likely won by the shorter QB, an interception not at all unlike the one thrown by Shaun Hill (6' 4") to lose the SD game for us. Which gives rise to the possible retort that with "each inch" lost there might be a benefit accruing from greater mobility that would offset or outweigh any concerns real or imagined a preoccupation with height seems to hold.
So let me say this ,I regard it unlikely we will come to an agreement on this ,which has never been my objective rather to offer that the issue has alternative interpretations and to give those alternatives for acceptance or rejection by the whole of those who re these posts.
So I'll likely give you the last word ,and thanks for taking me back to HS physics ,that class featured the absolute prettiest girl in the entire school who as was the fashion wore short skirts that originated the term beaver shots,it was the high-lite of my day

 

[CodeMonkey]

Joe Flacco
Tony Romo
Ben Roethlisberger
Andy Dalton
Alex Smith

And if we're considering some big names that have played somewhat recently beyond the three year mark...you can't forget about Kurt Warner and Brett Favre. There are a lot more names to be added to the list if you keep going back.

Steve McNair, Doug Williams, Phil Simms, Rich Gannon...

Interesting Article here:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/41220138/

Image from the article (as of 2013):

 

[jrry32]

As soon as I left my home, I thought of Flacco.....

Alex Smith (Utah), and Andy Dalton did not go to small schools....but I'll give ya Romo, Big Ben, and Flacco.....

Smith and Dalton both played in the Mountain West Conference. That's the same conference that Grayson played in at Colorado State.

 

[DR RAM]

Grayson has a crappy relesae too, although he's obviously worked on it since the season, in the very limited film of his pro day. It doesn't show on every play, but sometimes it looks like a baseball throw.

I should have charted if these were long throws. If that's the case, that was Clausen's "tell" that I evaluated before that draft, and it didn't work out well for him at this point. He used to have to drop and DNA rifle to make a long, or high velocity throw, and that extra time, gave DB's, extra time to react. I just didn't like Grayson enough to put in that extra work.

 

[LACHAMP46]

@jrry32 Didn't Utah beat Alabama while Smith was there? Didn't TCU beat....err, bad memory but beat a big name school while Dalton was there...A lil different than Colorado St. But lets roll with this argument, and agree...Those two players are basically proving my point, they played on pretty complete teams. And both cannot get it done...Only weakness on SF & KC is Smith...Only real weakness on Cinn. is Dalton.

Flacco is a stud...esp. around playoff time....

 

[LACHAMP46]

Steve McNair, Doug Williams, Phil Simms, Rich Gannon...

Interesting Article here:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/41220138/

Image from the article (as of 2013):

Stop killing my argument coder!!!! ahahahahahahahahh, lol....How about winning QB's?

 

[Yamahopper]

Maybe this is who they thought they were getting when they drafted Garrett Gilbert.

Gilbert was a better prospect. He has a better arm and release. And he couldn't make the roster even with the starter down for the year.

 

[FRO]

I'm a Grayson guy. The way the backup QBs are set it looks like the Rams are positioning themselves to take a QB. I would punt until next year when the class looks much deeper and better.