(Poll) Goff or Wentz. Who do YOU want?

[CGI_Ram]

I was/am a Bradford homer. I still believe in the guy.

 

[gabriel18]

Wentz looks like a winner with a great attitude but who knows . I just hope it works so we aren't suffering through another failed attempt to find a QB .

 

[RamFan503]

That's not a bitch. That's clearly a lesbian.

 

[RamFan503]

It's weird. That guy with the Lidell costume on just keeps showing up. I sat and watched it for like ten minutes and he seems to always be in front of the camera.

 

[Akrasian]

It's weird. That guy with the Lidell costume on just keeps showing up. I sat and watched it for like ten minutes and he seems to always be in front of the camera.

It's a popular costume. I think they sell it in the concession stands.

 

[rdw]

It's a bit ironic that Wentz is seen as a project and Goff is viewed as more "NFL ready" out of the box when the latter is a year and 9 months younger.
I know there isn't single aspect that is the be all that end all but when I look at the whole picture I'm a lot more comfortable with Goff than Wentz.
Having said all that if Wentz is the pick I'm 100% on board and will be a diehard fan whoever ends up donning the horns! I wonder if we'll be debating this until the pick has been turned in or if we'll find out before the draft? The suspense is killing me..

 

[Ram Pat]

Bradford would probably be mentioned with all time greats if it wasnt for his uber fragile body
train

Goff's frame (legs especially) look eerily like Sam, yet Sam was 236 at draft. Looks aren't WHOLE story. Sure helps with women.

 

[Ramhusker]

http://a.msn.com/02/en-us/BBrQ9dw?ocid=sf

 

[Leuzer]

Here's my take after watching some of Goff's game play:

*Goff is more accurate, but he doesn't have quite as much zip on the football.
*The only snap I've seen Goff take under center was a 1 yard QB sneak.
*Goff doesn't seem to take as much shots down the field unless the receiver is open.
*All though it's not a huge issue (and doesn't have an injury history), Goff looks scrawny like Bradford. I'd prefer if he bulked up a little more.

Conclusion: Same things everyone else has been saying; he looks more pro ready. Goff moving around and running out of the pocket looks like Aaron Rodgers. He doesn't have the velocity like Wentz has on his throws, but as long as he's accurate, it shouldn't matter too much (i.e. Kurt Warner). I like how Goff is more careful with the football, but sometimes you need to take a shot down field (Bradford). I didn't see too much at all in Goff's videos.

Who would I prefer after comparing the two?
Either player will be an immediate and much needed upgrade to the team. That being said I'm leaning towards Goff but I'm not fully on board with him. It's more of a 75% right now.

 

[tahoe]

So many people are ignoring the air raid offense that Goff ran. It will not be an easy transition to an nfl offense from that offense. It is as simple as it gets and he never took snaps from under center. Wentz already knows the nfl concepts. Wentz has an incredible football mind, im not saying Goff doesn't but I know Wentz does. I dont think Goff is as nfl ready as many think. I think the Rams will regret not taking Wentz if it goes that way.

 

[den-the-coach]

 

[Mackeyser]

That's not a bitch. That's clearly a lesbian.

No it's not. I like lesbians...

 

[FloridaBison]

New guy here,and thank you for having me. I've enjoyed reading a well represented intelligent message forum. As a guy growing up in the Midwest, I was a huge Dickerson fan, and suspect that I will become a Rams fan once again. It is my hope to shed light on a few things.

If one looks in totality at all of the requirements that go into a truly successful QB in the NFL one would be amazed. As a matter of fact, scouts and teams spend more time today looking at character, intelligence, leadership, maturity, and work ethic than the tangibles. Obviously film tells us all a lot, but If you only look at hard statistics, or grade on a "nice looking ball" or hand size or foot movement you might want to look much deeper. Ryan leaf certainly had a beautiful ball, and a canon for an arm. He also sadly had addiction problems, poor discipline, and virtually no respect amongst his teammates.

For the record, I believe both Goff and Wentz will be good QB's. I do however have many reasons to believe that Wentz will be a Franchise QB and eventual Superbowl Champion. If your new QB is required to start week one, I also believe Wentz would have a better win/loss record at the end of season than Goff would.

I state this because when I look at the totality of his skillset, there is no other conclusion.

1. Leadership. At NDSU, Wentz was a fierce competitor with a strong will to win. The stress of maintaining a winning tradition is huge. A loss is almost unacceptable. Whether his teammates or the staff, Wentz had the support and trust of every member of the program and always commanded his huddle. That leadership and composure is why he commanded many 4th quarter winning drives, and is the very reason he successfully managed the immense pressure he was under at the Senior bowl and Combine.
2. Intelligence/maturity. High School through college graduation, Wentz never received a grade lower than an A, and achieved the highest Wonderlic score in this draft (Wentz-40,Goff-36 both great). This level of intelligence put him under center at NDSU. He called the defense for every play, AND could call any play he wanted in the huddle or at the line.
3. Work ethic. It has been well documented that he is a football junky. Wentz was the most prepared athlete on any field he competed on. It wasn't the A in math that opened the playbook for him at NDSU. Week in and week out he demonstrated his preparedness and ability to execute while rarely making mistakes on the field. Skills that directly translate to the NFL.
4. Character and maturity. Wentz plays football for the right reasons. Every team looking at him has tried to find "the dirt" on him over the last year. They cant find one thing. I can say that he frequented my Brother-in-laws Church on Sunday. My point is that he won't be taken in by the "big stage" or life in L.A. He is grounded and his focus will be on football.

I am concerned about one analytic. Completion % under duress. Analytics don't define "under Duress". Wentz ran quite successfully while under duress, and that skewes this number. Why? Because when Wentz was under duress, he was seriously under duress. i.e. all out blitz.

So. When I look at the totality of Wentz skill set along with being in a pro-style offense under center calling his own plays, I am resolved that the outcome will be pretty incredible. The aspects of his game that need refinement (per the scouting community) are manageable and wont take long to work through.

In totality. I see Wentz as a QB with an NFL elite arm, superb running ability, demonstrated leadership skills, and the intelligence and work ethic you need at the position. All that in the desired prototypical frame for a QB.

Any one (1) skill could make for a productive QB in the NFL. All three???

Thank you if you actually read this far, and thank you for having me on your forum!

floridabison.

 

[Ramhusker]

New guy here,and thank you for having me. I've enjoyed reading a well represented intelligent message forum. As a guy growing up in the Midwest, I was a huge Dickerson fan, and suspect that I will become a Rams fan once again. It is my hope to shed light on a few things.

If one looks in totality at all of the requirements that go into a truly successful QB in the NFL one would be amazed. As a matter of fact, scouts and teams spend more time today looking at character, intelligence, leadership, maturity, and work ethic than the tangibles. Obviously film tells us all a lot, but If you only look at hard statistics, or grade on a "nice looking ball" or hand size or foot movement you might want to look much deeper. Ryan leaf certainly had a beautiful ball, and a canon for an arm. He also sadly had addiction problems, poor discipline, and virtually no respect amongst his teammates.

For the record, I believe both Goff and Wentz will be good QB's. I do however have many reasons to believe that Wentz will be a Franchise QB and eventual Superbowl Champion. If your new QB is required to start week one, I also believe Wentz would have a better win/loss record at the end of season than Goff would.

I state this because when I look at the totality of his skillset, there is no other conclusion.

1. Leadership. At NDSU, Wentz was a fierce competitor with a strong will to win. The stress of maintaining a winning tradition is huge. A loss is almost unacceptable. Whether his teammates or the staff, Wentz had the support and trust of every member of the program and always commanded his huddle. That leadership and composure is why he commanded many 4th quarter winning drives, and is the very reason he successfully managed the immense pressure he was under at the Senior bowl and Combine.
2. Intelligence/maturity. High School through college graduation, Wentz never received a grade lower than an A, and achieved the highest Wonderlic score in this draft (Wentz-40,Goff-36 both great). This level of intelligence put him under center at NDSU. He called the defense for every play, AND could call any play he wanted in the huddle or at the line.
3. Work ethic. It has been well documented that he is a football junky. Wentz was the most prepared athlete on any field he competed on. It wasn't the A in math that opened the playbook for him at NDSU. Week in and week out he demonstrated his preparedness and ability to execute while rarely making mistakes on the field. Skills that directly translate to the NFL.
4. Character and maturity. Wentz plays football for the right reasons. Every team looking at him has tried to find "the dirt" on him over the last year. They cant find one thing. I can say that he frequented my Brother-in-laws Church on Sunday. My point is that he won't be taken in by the "big stage" or life in L.A. He is grounded and his focus will be on football.

I am concerned about one analytic. Completion % under duress. Analytics don't define "under Duress". Wentz ran quite successfully while under duress, and that skewes this number. Why? Because when Wentz was under duress, he was seriously under duress. i.e. all out blitz.

So. When I look at the totality of Wentz skill set along with being in a pro-style offense under center calling his own plays, I am resolved that the outcome will be pretty incredible. The aspects of his game that need refinement (per the scouting community) are manageable and wont take long to work through.

In totality. I see Wentz as a QB with an NFL elite arm, superb running ability, demonstrated leadership skills, and the intelligence and work ethic you need at the position. All that in the desired prototypical frame for a QB.

Any one (1) skill could make for a productive QB in the NFL. All three???

Thank you if you actually read this far, and thank you for having me on your forum!

floridabison.

Nice 1st post at ROD. You'll fit right in here. welcome!

 

[snackdaddy]

I have no idea who the Rams prefer. But I have a suspicion its Wentz because he fits the profile of a QB Fisher likes. If I had my choice, I'd go with Wentz too. I like his upside.

I know both have question marks. What prospect doesn't? So I compare the question marks. It seems the only real question mark Wentz has is the competition he played against. We don't know if he can transition from that to the NFL. So the main question mark for him is unknown factor. Can he rise to the level of superior competition after going up against lower tier competition?

The main concern I have with Goff is, it seems his worst games are against the better teams. If I'm evaluating that is a red flag for me. I have to wonder if he can rise to the level of the better teams. Can he be a big game player? He's not as athletic as Wentz, but that wouldn't be a deal breaker if he's got the intangibles. Like reading defenses and going through his progressions.

Everything I hear about Wentz is that he has the intangibles. Very intelligent. Great work ethic. We know how athletic he is. While I wouldn't have a problem with either guy, I just have this feeling if either of these two have that "it" factor, it would be Wentz.

Although Goff without the helmet fits the Hollywood profile better.

But Wentz looks better when the pads and helmet are on and he's on the field.

 

[jrry32]

So many people are ignoring the air raid offense that Goff ran. It will not be an easy transition to an nfl offense from that offense. It is as simple as it gets and he never took snaps from under center. Wentz already knows the nfl concepts. Wentz has an incredible football mind, im not saying Goff doesn't but I know Wentz does. I dont think Goff is as nfl ready as many think. I think the Rams will regret not taking Wentz if it goes that way.

That's because the Air Raid offense is no longer just the Air Raid offense. It's split into a ton of different variants. The variant Goff ran had plenty of pro style concepts and a diverse route tree. Compare the routes that each QB threw:

And then there's this:

We weren't a check-with-me system. There are times in my career where I did that, because it helped us win games. But our offense now is built upon progression reads.

There are many plays when you watch Jared, he gets to his fifth progression. It's a straight dropback system where he goes through his progression and tries to get to that fifth read within three seconds. If he doesn't, he'll be in trouble, because he'll be sacked.

Another thing we do with him, he was able to change protections at any time. He was allowed to change the play at any time. He probably had to do more than any NFL quarterback does right now.

A lot of what Jared did: I call a play with two or three guys running routes within the play. Pre-snap, he can come up and change everything. He could change the play completely if he wanted to do so. He could just change the protection. Or he could wait until the ball is snapped and make a decision based on what the defense did.

“People think because we’re in this Air Raid family that there’s one or two progressions for the quarterback, which is really an insult because it’s nowhere near the truth,” Franklin says. “We give the quarterback an incredible amount of responsibility and (Goff) got more than any quarterback since I’ve been coaching.

“He probably had more on his shoulders before the snap than any quarterback in the NFL.”

Under Franklin, Goff had the ability to choose between the called run play and an alternate pass play, and vice versa, based on the alignment of the defense. Goff had the ability to audible individual routes on pass plays, and Franklin estimates he adjusted the protection scheme on about 10% of passing plays.

That's from Goff's OC. This idea that Goff isn't pro ready because he played in an Air Raid variant is lazy analysis imo. When you watch the film, it becomes apparent that he's going through NFL style progressions with speed, making NFL style reads, and running the offense from the LOS. The only major difference he'll face in the NFL is new verbiage and a denser playbook. But that doesn't concern me at all with Goff.

 

[yrba1]

Not concerned about Goff's arm strength in the early years, especially if the kid is two years younger than me; he'll have plenty of time to develop that. What sells me on the kid is his ability to move fluidly in the pocket behind a weak O-line. He may not have the best receivers but Gurley will sure complement him when the secondary has a one-on-one matchup against our receivers. Brady comes to mind when good mental progressions triumph over freak athleticism.

What really worries me about Wentz is his uncanny rise in the draft boards; basically going from a steal in Day 2 to one of the top 5 prospects of the draft.

As for those worried about another repeat of Bradford, Goff will be in a better situation than Bradford ever was. Fisher may be frustrating on numerous occasions but he's lightyears better than Spags. And plus Goff's pocket presence is far superior than Bradford's.

 

[Shawnbb158]

I have been in the Wentz wagon forever. I favor him bc he can make ANY nfl throw plus his football iq. I do like goffs pocket awareness/footwork in the pocket and his accuracy is amazing. The more I look into both the closet they get. I don't think I'll ever have goff higher but I would be ok with him as our pick ESPECIALLY if he can add 15-20 or 25lbs to stand up to nfl hits and it should improve his arm strength. With all that said I am happy we made the move and will be thrilled with either one under center. But PICK WENTZ! That is all

 

[dolphinlover123]

That's because the Air Raid offense is no longer just the Air Raid offense. It's split into a ton of different variants. The variant Goff ran had plenty of pro style concepts and a diverse route tree. Compare the routes that each QB threw:

And then there's this:




That's from Goff's OC. This idea that Goff isn't pro ready because he played in an Air Raid variant is lazy analysis imo. When you watch the film, it becomes apparent that he's going through NFL style progressions with speed, making NFL style reads, and running the offense from the LOS. The only major difference he'll face in the NFL is new verbiage and a denser playbook. But that doesn't concern me at all with Goff.

Great post. I found a great article that goes very well along with this and you might like this. They introduce bear raid, and how Goff's responsibilities changed from year 1 to year 2 to year 3. And this is from almost a year ago. During his junior year, Goff had his OC's full trust. I don't want to just pick out some quotes that I like because this article is pretty comprehensive and I might put it out of context. And also, I don't understand all of it.

PLEASE READ THIS!!!!
http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/eye...f-became-nations-top-nfl-quarterback-prospect

This article has some great quotes from his OC, and his receivers. I would like everyone to read this. LOL

 

[Ramlock]

That's from Goff's OC. This idea that Goff isn't pro ready because he played in an Air Raid variant is lazy analysis imo. .

Geno Smith
Tim Couch
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel
John Beck
Graham Harrell


And (omg) Nick Foles and Case Keenum!

Would all like to have a word with you.