Our defense is amazing...can we keep it?

[FrantikRam]

It’s not discrediting to say they’re just not THAT good. I mean compared to our offense they look like the 2000 ravens. They’re a solid unit for sure but pretending we’re a defensive power house for allowing 19.3 points per game just because that happens to be better than other teams this year is just off base IMO. We have a bunch of holes masked by 2 very special generational players. It’s cool and all I appreciate the performance but let’s not pretend they’re something they’re not.

They've allowed 17.4 PPG, and probably under 17 PPG if we remove the short field FGs off turnovers or the blocked punt.

Our defense favorably compares to the 2018 Bears in yards, PPG allowed (slightly worse), yards per play allowed, and sacks - they have a lot more turnovers than us, which is really the only discrepancy between the two defenses.

Accounting for era, this is the best Rams defense since the 1970s at least - it's much harder to play defense today than it was even in 2001.

I don't understand this forum - if a QB or RB was having the best Rams season since either the 1970s or 1999/2001 depending on what you want to debate - well, Gurley and Goff achieved that a few years ago and they were beloved to the point of hero status. And relative to what the rest of the league was doing, this defense is performing better than Goff did in 2018 and as good as Gurley was in 2017/2018. They're performing better than the offense did in both 2017 and 2018 - in 2017 we weren't actually the number one scoring offense because of how many D/ST TDs we scored that year (I think 7 or 8). This defense is actually the best in the NFL in both yards and points allowed.

It may not be historic, but I'd love to see it relative to what league scoring was to see how much better it is than average for that season. I'd bet it would be top 20 all time from that perspective. And as I said before, it compares well to the 2018 Bears defense which, that season, was touted as an elite unit. To say that our defense isn't elite is a complete joke.

Are they perfect? No. But in comparing them with our offense from 2017 and 2018, you had the first Seahawks game, the Vikings game, the Falcons playoff game, the Bears game, the Eagles game and the Super Bowl. You had at least three games each year where our offense, which was an elite unit, completely failed and/or dropped the ball. Even elite units have failures at times. The Chiefs offense just scored a lowly 17 points at home against the Falcons. It happens.

 

[AvengerRam]

If this thread was a train, it’s cars would be lying on their sides next to the track, and David Dunn would be the only survivor.

 

[NJRamsFan]

They've allowed 17.4 PPG, and probably under 17 PPG if we remove the short field FGs off turnovers or the blocked punt.

Unless you’re gonna go back and do the same thing for other defenses you cant expect this statement to hold any weight. You removed touchdowns you felt weren’t deserving to be on the defenses ppg total and than compared them to the 2018 bears...did you do the same for The bears? without going back I’m sure Mitchell turbisky accounted for some points on that defenses total. Hell I’m sure Trent differ accounted for some of the 10.4 ppg the 2000 ravens let up. You can’t randomly subtract touchdowns from the rams total without going back and doing the same for others. So no, the Rams are allowing 19.3 ppg this year.

Our defense favorably compares to the 2018 Bears in yards, PPG allowed (slightly worse), yards per play allowed, and sacks - they have a lot more turnovers than us, which is really the only discrepancy between the two defenses..

Again, we compare favorably if you shave off 2.6 points off of our defense and pretend that the Chicago offense didn’t account for any of those points allowed AND remove the single most game changing metric a defense has in turnovers. We have to do all of that just to almost get them even with a defense most wouldn’t even consider world beating. Just really stout.

Accounting for era, this is the best Rams defense since the 1970s at least - it's much harder to play defense today than it was even in 2001.

Agreed this is the best rams defense we have had in a long time. And agreed it is harder to play def now than 2001 but other recent teams have done it better so its not just a generational thing.

It may not be historic, but I'd love to see it relative to what league scoring was to see how much better it is than average for that season. I'd bet it would be top 20 all time from that perspective. And as I said before, it compares well to the 2018 Bears defense which, that season, was touted as an elite unit. To say that our defense isn't elite is a complete joke.

Are they perfect? No. But in comparing them with our offense from 2017 and 2018, you had the first Seahawks game, the Vikings game, the Falcons playoff game, the Bears game, the Eagles game and the Super Bowl. You had at least three games each year where our offense, which was an elite unit, completely failed and/or dropped the ball. Even elite units have failures at times. The Chiefs offense just scored a lowly 17 points at home against the Falcons. It happens.

Again it does not compare favorably to the 2018 CHI BEARS unless you do some finessing of the stats for only 1 team. The fact that they had imperfections is not the reason they are not elite its because the only metric by which they would be considered elite is their nfl rankings compared to ONLY this season which is obviously a down season for defenses if you look at the numbers. They are not elite compared to other defenses considered elite.

 

[dieterbrock]

I look forward to our discussion on the topic of this thread.

Is it not titled "Our defense is amazing.."? Seems like you are only looking for a certain response, not a discussion

 

[NJRamsFan]

Is it not titled "Our defense is amazing.."? Seems like you are only looking for a certain response, not a discussion

I feel like we been on the same wave length tonight...

 

[FrantikRam]

Unless you’re gonna go back and do the same thing for other defenses you cant expect this statement to hold any weight. You removed touchdowns you felt weren’t deserving to be on the defenses ppg total and than compared them to the 2018 bears...did you do the same for The bears? without going back I’m sure Mitchell turbisky accounted for some points on that defenses total. Hell I’m sure Trent differ accounted for some of the 10.4 ppg the 2000 ravens let up. You can’t randomly subtract touchdowns from the rams total without going back and doing the same for others. So no, the Rams are allowing 19.3 ppg this year.



Again, we compare favorably if you shave off 2.6 points off of our defense and pretend that the Chicago offense didn’t account for any of those points allowed AND remove the single most game changing metric a defense has in turnovers. We have to do all of that just to almost get them even with a defense most wouldn’t even consider world beating. Just really stout.


Agreed this is the best rams defense we have had in a long time. And agreed it is harder to play def now than 2001 but other recent teams have done it better so its not just a generational thing.


Again it does not compare favorably to the 2018 CHI BEARS unless you do some finessing of the stats for only 1 team. The fact that they had imperfections is not the reason they are not elite its because the only metric by which they would be considered elite is their nfl rankings compared to ONLY this season which is obviously a down season for defenses if you look at the numbers. They are not elite compared to other defenses considered elite.

Of course I did the same thing for them - why would I make this statement if I hadn't? They have us in PPG by a small margin after doing this for both teams.

We compare favorably in yards and yards per play which are more indicative overall of how good a defense is - for example, the Dolphins getting two TDs off of 36 offensive yards. Goes against our defense but those points are more on the offense. The Bears may have a similar situation, I'm not sure - what I do know is that this defense is only responsible for giving up 16 PPG which is elite by any standard.

They allowed 4.8 yards per play, we allow 4.6

Again its mind boggling that we have to have this conversation - it's one of the best defenses of the last few years when you look at the combination of turnovers, sacks, points allowed, yards allowed and yards per play allowed.

What purpose does it serve to downplay them? You have to go back years to find a defense better at yards per play allowed, which is one of the best ways to evaluate a defense.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Of course I did the same thing for them - why would I make this statement if I hadn't? They have us in PPG by a small margin after doing this for both teams.

We compare favorably in yards and yards per play which are more indicative overall of how good a defense is - for example, the Dolphins getting two TDs off of 36 offensive yards. Goes against our defense but those points are more on the offense. The Bears may have a similar situation, I'm not sure - what I do know is that this defense is only responsible for giving up 16 PPG which is elite by any standard.

They allowed 4.8 yards per play, we allow 4.6

Again its mind boggling that we have to have this conversation - it's one of the best defenses of the last few years when you look at the combination of turnovers, sacks, points allowed, yards allowed and yards per play allowed.

What purpose does it serve to downplay them? You have to go back years to find a defense better at yards per play allowed, which is one of the best ways to evaluate a defense.

You went back to 2018 and figured out which scores were the offense/special teams fault and not the D for chicago??? this confuses me because later you said the bears may have had a similar situation you're not sure?

Now were down to 16? sheesh a few more posts well be the best D all time.

Its not one of the best defenses over the last few years unless you mean rams defenses to which I already agreed. 2019 pats 14.4 pts per game without considering your metric of scoring over the nfls. 2019 bills 16 pts per game without considering your metric of scoring over the nfls. We really weren't elite historically in any category. Only compared to a year where the best defense is 4.4 ppg higher than the year before. Maybe a combination of rules favoring offenses and lack of facility time due to covid contributed to that but we cant ignore the fact that defenses were not particularly great this yea even compared to 1 year ago and the only metric by which our defense is elite is comparing it to this years defenses.

It doesn't serve a purpose to down play them but it does to objectively view them. 19.3 ppg is not great sure we did a bunch of other things well which is why we were a good defense but what purpose does over estimating their impact serve?

Our defense was better than our O and likely a larger contributor to our wins this season. They are certainly the strongest part of our team considering our special teams looks like pop warner. However, they are not so special when compared to other defenses that have been considered elite in the recent past.

 

[-X-]

The only descriptor of this defense I saw used by the OP was "amazing". Even if you disregard their ranking and statistics, your eyeballs should tell you they're pretty amazing.

I can't pretend to know what's going to happen to the guys who are in their contract year, but you can bet we'll try to keep everybody. Hell, I'd even add to it through the draft and FA if it were me. Because defenses that play at this level are a rarity in today's NFL. And in the playoffs? It's all that matters. Have they had some lapses here and there? Sure. Have they had some late in the game? Also sure. But what can you expect late in a game when our offense should have been giving them the opportunity to play to their strengths at that point in the game?

Shit, it's not rocket science. Having an amazing, elite, great, awesome, superb, balls-out, (whatever descriptor you wanna use) defense, coupled with even a semi-productive offense, will yield you favorable results. You have to go back to 1999-2001 to find a defense like the one we have now.

2017 - great offense, top 10 defense -- playoffs.
2018 - great offense, top 10 defense -- SB appearance.
2019 - average offense, average defense -- no playoffs.
2020 - average offense, top 10 defense -- who knows.

 

[FrantikRam]

You went back to 2018 and figured out which scores were the offense/special teams fault and not the D??? this confuses me because later you said the bears may have had a similar situation you're not sure?

Now were down to 16? sheesh a few more posts well be the best D all time.

Its not one of the best defenses over the last few years unless you mean rams defenses to which I already agreed. 2019 pats 14.4 pts per game without considering your metric of scoring over the nfls. 2019 bills 16 pts per game without considering your metric of scoring over the nfls. We really weren't elite historically in any category. Only compared to a year where the best defense is 4.4 ppg higher than the year before. Maybe a combination of rules favoring offenses and lack of facility time due to covid contributed to that but we cant ignore the fact that defenses were not particularly great this yea even compared to 1 year ago and the only metric by which our defense is elite is comparing it to this years defenses.

It doesn't serve a purpose to down play them but it does to objectively view them. 19.3 ppg is not great sure we did a bunch of other things well which is why we were a good defense but what purpose does over estimating their impact serve?

Our defense was better than our O and likely a larger contributor to our wins this season. They are certainly the strongest part of our team considering our special teams looks like pop warner. However, they are not so special when compared to other defenses that have been considered elite in the recent past.

Sigh.

I went back and looked at their D/ST TDs allowed because it's easy. For the "down to 16 PPG" I'm factoring in all the FGs and TDs on short fields that are the fault of the offense and special teams. Although I admitted I don't have the time to do that for Chicago or any other team, I believe the Rams are uniquely poor in this category, but again I'm not sure of that - just my opinion.

Where we are uniquely great is yards per play allowed, as I pointed out. Better than the Patriots last year and the Bears before.

And as I mentioned before, the defense has allowed the fewest points per game this year - 17.4 - even if you take away all D/ST TDs allowed for all teams. Its weird to cite 19.3 after that.

And yes the fact that offenses are so much better this year is further evidence of great this defense is.

I'm not saying they're all time great - but that Patriots D and Bears D received the elite tag by most people and this defense is better than both in yards per play allowed.

What's so strange is that this might be the best Rams defense of all time, accounting for era and all that, and we have people downplaying them.

I've never seen fans of any team downplaying a player or unit of their favorite team that was literally the best in the NFL.

 

[TexasRam]

If we are an elite defense than I expect us to be in the super bowl.

Yea I am sure the Annals of history will have the 2020 Rams right up there with the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens and Steel curtain.

We lack the interior Lber edge
Rush and honestly only have two pro bowl impact players on defense.

Hell, if they play like the 85 Bears in the playoffs if we make it then that would be great. But that is wishful thinking.

For one, we need more turnovers to dominate like an elite defense.

 

[ramphreak]

Why would any defensive player who could make more money give a hometown discount to the Rams? The offense will keep them from winning it all at this point so unless there's a major upgrade on that side of the ball I see most of our FAs abandoning ship.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Sigh.

I went back and looked at their D/ST TDs allowed because it's easy. For the "down to 16 PPG" I'm factoring in all the FGs and TDs on short fields that are the fault of the offense and special teams. Although I admitted I don't have the time to do that for Chicago or any other team, I believe the Rams are uniquely poor in this category, but again I'm not sure of that - just my opinion.

Where we are uniquely great is yards per play allowed, as I pointed out. Better than the Patriots last year and the Bears before.

And as I mentioned before, the defense has allowed the fewest points per game this year - 17.4 - even if you take away all D/ST TDs allowed for all teams. Its weird to cite 19.3 after that.

And yes the fact that offenses are so much better this year is further evidence of great this defense is.

I'm not saying they're all time great - but that Patriots D and Bears D received the elite tag by most people and this defense is better than both in yards per play allowed.

What's so strange is that this might be the best Rams defense of all time, accounting for era and all that, and we have people downplaying them.

I've never seen fans of any team downplaying a player or unit of their favorite team that was literally the best in the NFL.

If youre gonna continue to make a point that you "dont have time" to support its not really an opinion just a random guess.

You keep going to this 17.4 ppg avg to support your opinion...You do realize the nfl keeps this statistic and the Rams is 19.3. Just because you think thats unfair doesn't make it less true. If you wanna make an argument based around the fact that you think the Rams are unfairly at 19.3 pts than you have to go back and do the same math for each team you are comparing them to. If you dont want to you cant make this point. Youre cherry picking your parameters by holding 1 team to a standard but not the other team. You cant say lets use the NFL's metric for all the defenses besides the 2020 rams and think that is a fair assessment.

 

[NJRamsFan]

The only descriptor of this defense I saw used by the OP was "amazing". Even if you disregard their ranking and statistics, your eyeballs should tell you they're pretty amazing.

He did quickly use the word elite after I disagreed with the amazing assessment. One would only have disregard their 2020 league rankings because their statistics are frankly not amazing in almost any other year besides 2020 (Which again perhaps is based off of the fact the got less preparation due to covid?) but thats fine if your eyeballs tell you they are amazing and I dont disagree entirely as I have seen some amazing plays as well but frankly the 2020 Rams D is a just good to very good not special.

 

[dieterbrock]

I feel like we been on the same wave length tonight...

#Jerseystrong

 

[dieterbrock]

The only descriptor of this defense I saw used by the OP was "amazing". Even if you disregard their ranking and statistics, your eyeballs should tell you they're pretty amazing.

Well, like I said, they've played amazing at times, however I cant say they've had an amazing season when they've:
Allowed 2 late 4th Q comebacks to cost a couple wins. Buffalo converting a 3rd and 22 and a 3rd and 25, and San Fran driving length of field with a 3rd string QB TWICE in 4th Q to tie game, then win it
Allowed an 0-13 team to convert 2 3rd downs in 4th Q preventing a shot at tying or winning game
Allowed 49ers to run off the last 3:24 of the game preventing a shot at tying game
That's 4 of 6 losses they could have made the big stop and didnt.

 

[FrantikRam]

If youre gonna continue to make a point that you "dont have time" to support its not really an opinion just a random guess.

You keep going to this 17.4 ppg avg to support your opinion...You do realize the nfl keeps this statistic and the Rams is 19.3. Just because you think thats unfair doesn't make it less true. If you wanna make an argument based around the fact that you think the Rams are unfairly at 19.3 pts than you have to go back and do the same math for each team you are comparing them to. If you dont want to you cant make this point. Youre cherry picking your parameters by holding 1 team to a standard but not the other team. You cant say lets use the NFL's metric for all the defenses besides the 2020 rams and think that is a fair assessment.

I was talking about two different things. I'll just keep it simple and remove my opinion on how they're actually responsible for less than 17.4 PPG:

I've done the math for every team that could possibly have had the top scoring defense - the Rams are the best at 17.4 PPG. That coupled with the yards per game and per play allowed makes them elite.

 

[dieterbrock]

I've done the math for every team that could possibly have had the top scoring defense - the Rams are the best at 17.4 PPG. That coupled with the yards per game and per play allowed makes them elite.

Well they gave up 21.5 in the last 2 weeks, 23 to an 0-13 team that had been averaging 12.4 points per game in Sam Darnold's 9 starts prior. That's not elite

 

[NJRamsFan]

I was talking about two different things. I'll just keep it simple and remove my opinion on how they're actually responsible for less than 17.4 PPG:

I've done the math for every team that could possibly have had the top scoring defense - the Rams are the best at 17.4 PPG. That coupled with the yards per game and per play allowed makes them elite.

That just brings us full circle to where I started with the op. The rams defense is undoubted elite compared to only 2020 defenses. That is obvious and you didn’t have to do additional math. If your only definition of elite is the strict textbook version of being in the upper echelon of their peers than fine. But you better call Kyle juszczyck elite as well.

 

[FrantikRam]

That just brings us full circle to where I started with the op. The rams defense is undoubted elite compared to only 2020 defenses. That is obvious and you didn’t have to do additional math. If your only definition of elite is the strict textbook version of being in the upper echelon of their peers than fine. But you better call Kyle juszczyck elite as well.

And this is incorrect - their yards per play allowed puts them in elite territory regardless of the year.

And doing so when offenses are better than they've ever been is even more impressive.

 

[NJRamsFan]

And this is incorrect - their yards per play allowed puts them in elite territory regardless of the year.

And doing so when offenses are better than they've ever been is even more impressive.

Chicken or the egg . Are offenses better or defenses worse?

Yards per play is an interesting metric to hang your hat on. We have bad lbs maybe that has something to do with it as our secondary is much better