Our defense is amazing...can we keep it?

[dieterbrock]

It’s hard to believe I have to defend calling the defense “amazing.”

Amazing at times sure.
But I find it equally amazing they couldnt keep an 0-13 team from gaining a 1st down TWICE on the final possession, nor keeping a 3rd string QB from driving the length of the field for back to back game tying and game winning FG

 

[dieterbrock]

Yes, really.

In 1960, 3,000 yards and 25 TDs made a QB elite.

In 2020, a defense with the Rams’ numbers is elite.

I never said they are the 85 Bears.

Yeah because 1960 and 2018 are the same thing.... Come on now

 

[AvengerRam]

Yeah because 1960 and 2018 are the same thing.... Come on now

Huh? The Rams team defense numbers would have ranked 1st in yards/game and 4th in points/game in 2018. WTF are you saying?

Besides...I didn’t use the term “elite” when I started this thread. I said the defense has been amazing, has played great football this year, and has been a strength of this team.

Anyone disagree with that?

 

[FrantikRam]

Defense is definitely elite.

I'm sure they'd be first in points allowed if we remove the direct points allowed by the offense and special teams. If we removed all points off turnovers and special teams gaffes, they might be in near historic territory considering how much teams are scoring these days.

Don't forget: the Miami Dolphins four TDs came off of 36 offensive yards. The rest of their yards were accrued on non scoring drives.

The Cardinals scored 28 points off of less than 300 yards, with two TDs coming off of, I believe, 65 offensive yards bc of special teams.

They had let downs for sure - but even in the games they had let downs, they gave us chances to win.

 

[AvengerRam]

Fun fact: the Rams are allowing 4.6 yards/play this year (lowest in NFL).

The last team to have a lower average...? The 2015 Super Bowl Champion Broncos (4.5 yards/play).

 

[NJRamsFan]

Fun fact: the Rams are allowing 4.6 yards/play this year (lowest in NFL).

The last team to have a lower average...? The 2015 Super Bowl Champion Broncos (4.5 yards/play).

see when directly confronted about issues you hide from the fact that this defense is very forgettable historically than you throw in statements like this comparing it to championship defenses of the past. Seems you only want to make the comparison where they are favorable but avoid it otherwise. You cant have it both ways

 

[dieterbrock]

Huh? The Rams team defense numbers would have ranked 1st in yards/game and 4th in points/game in 2018. WTF are you saying?

Besides...I didn’t use the term “elite” when I started this thread. I said the defense has been amazing, has played great football this year, and has been a strength of this team.

Anyone disagree with that?

You brought up stats from 1960, lets not be disingenous now....
They have been amazing at times yes.
And amazingly ineffective when needed most at times as well.
You wouldnt agree with that?

 

[AvengerRam]

see when directly confronted about issues you hide from the fact that this defense is very forgettable historically than you throw in statements like this comparing it to championship defenses of the past. Seems you only want to make the comparison where they are favorable but avoid it otherwise. You cant have it both ways

LOL. All you’ve done is provide your own opinion backed by a few anecdotal examples of bad moments during the season.

Don’t you think you’ve derailed this thread enough with your bull shit? The topic is whether the Rams can maintain the defense as a team strength in 2021.

 

[payote75]

I don't think the defense has been perfect however I do think in some case where they have been needed at times and they haven't come through it needs to be mentioned that in most of those times is probably because the offense blows or there was a turn over by the offense so they are tired over worked and cannot be expected to be perfect. If we had more consistency in the offense less turnovers etc. Those few times we needed them that they failed they probably more often than not would have done there job.
So they have not been perfect but the only reason and I mean the only reason this team has a shot at a playoff birth, 9 wins with a chance at 10 is solely because of the defense. Not the offense and most certainly not the special teams unit.

I'd have a hard time laying any blame at all on the defense even with some of the miscues.

 

[AvengerRam]

You brought up stats from 1960, lets not be disingenous now....
They have been amazing at times yes.
And amazingly ineffective when needed most at times as well.
You wouldnt agree with that?

Your criticism is vastly overstated. The defense has had a few bad moments, but overall has been the primary reason for the team’s success.

Again, the point of this thread is to assess whether it can be as much of a strength in 2021.

 

[NJRamsFan]

LOL. All you’ve done is provide your own opinion backed by a few anecdotal examples of bad moments during the season.

Don’t you think you’ve derailed this thread enough with your bull shit? The topic is whether the Rams can maintain the defense as a team strength in 2021.

Well no I provided my opinion backed by 40 years of reasons this defense is not elite beyond a year where not many defenses are playing well including sack totals, takeaways, points allowed. I highlighted bad moments that I thought other actual elite defenses of yesteryear would not have allowed specifically against 0-13 teams or 3rd string qbs.

Calling my opinion of this defense as good but not elite bull shit speaks volumes of your lack of actual argument as you don't seem to have one. At least for very long that is. You call the defense elite to me than to @dieterbrock say you didn't call it elite in your first post so you don't have to defend that position. You claim that this defense is elite in the context of 2020 and when I push back explaining that being elite in a year where the top statistical performances don't stack up to years past means very little in terms of ability, you seem to shy away from the historical point of view, that is until you compare it to a championship defense of the past in a random stat category that matches up with your opinion.

 

[AvengerRam]

I’m done responding to the nonsense.

Anyone want to discuss the actual topic?

 

[dieterbrock]

I’m done responding to the nonsense.

Anyone want to discuss the actual topic?

It's nonsense that people dont agree with you? Should have a thicker skin than that. Sort of the purpose of starting a thread yeah? To create discussion?

 

[AvengerRam]

It's nonsense that people dont agree with you? Should have a thicker skin than that. Sort of the purpose of starting a thread yeah? To create discussion?

I look forward to our discussion on the topic of this thread.

 

[dieterbrock]

Defense is definitely elite.

I'm sure they'd be first in points allowed if we remove the direct points allowed by the offense and special teams. If we removed all points off turnovers and special teams gaffes, they might be in near historic territory considering how much teams are scoring these days.

Don't forget: the Miami Dolphins four TDs came off of 36 offensive yards. The rest of their yards were accrued on non scoring drives.

The Cardinals scored 28 points off of less than 300 yards, with two TDs coming off of, I believe, 65 offensive yards bc of special teams.

They had let downs for sure - but even in the games they had let downs, they gave us chances to win.

4 TD and I believe 1 safety, 30 points scored against. Defense points allowed 16.7. May be leading league but I doubt its at historic levels

As for the other stuff, that goes both ways. In the Miami game for instance, the Rams had a 15 yard drive after Tua fumbled

 

[FrantikRam]

This Rams defense is the best Rams defense since....? And people are wanting to find ways to discredit it? Very strange.

TDs allowed not by the defense:

Bears (1)
Dolphins (2)
49ers (1)

This makes the ACTUAL points allowed by the Rams defense 261, good for 17.4 PPG. It's even better when you think about the 1 yard TD by the Dolphins off a fumble returned to the one, and the several other scoring drives (FGs or TDs) off of short fields.

This is very likely the best defense we've had since the fearsome foursome. We allowed less points in 2001 and 1999, but the league scored A LOT less back then and the rule changes hadn't made things tougher on defenses just yet.

It lines up very favorably in every category to the 2018 Bears defense, save for turnovers.

 

[FrantikRam]

4 TD and I believe 1 safety, 30 points scored against. Defense points allowed 16.7. May be leading league but I doubt its at historic levels

As for the other stuff, that goes both ways. In the Miami game for instance, the Rams had a 15 yard drive after Tua fumbled

No not historic for the NFL - but historic for the Rams, especially if you factor in that this season offenses are scoring more than ever.

 

[dieterbrock]

No not historic for the NFL - but historic for the Rams, especially if you factor in that this season offenses are scoring more than ever.

It’s surely the best defense we’ve had in a long time.

 

[NJRamsFan]

This Rams defense is the best Rams defense since....? And people are wanting to find ways to discredit it? Very strange.

TDs allowed not by the defense:

Bears (1)
Dolphins (2)
49ers (1)

This makes the ACTUAL points allowed by the Rams defense 261, good for 17.4 PPG. It's even better when you think about the 1 yard TD by the Dolphins off a fumble returned to the one, and the several other scoring drives (FGs or TDs) off of short fields.

This is very likely the best defense we've had since the fearsome foursome. We allowed less points in 2001 and 1999, but the league scored A LOT less back then and the rule changes hadn't made things tougher on defenses just yet.

It lines up very favorably in every category to the 2018 Bears defense, save for turnovers.

It’s not discrediting to say they’re just not THAT good. I mean compared to our offense they look like the 2000 ravens. They’re a solid unit for sure but pretending we’re a defensive power house for allowing 19.3 points per game just because that happens to be better than other teams this year is just off base IMO. We have a bunch of holes masked by 2 very special generational players. It’s cool and all I appreciate the performance but let’s not pretend they’re something they’re not.

 

[FrantikRam]

On topic:

We shouldn't IMO keep this defense together. Regardless of the opinion of Goff, we know he will be on the roster next year and there's no viable replacement option. The best way forward is doing whatever we can to be successful, and with our cap limitations that means gutting the defense:

JJ, Hill, Floyd, Ebukam - gone

Brockers - cut - I believe we frontloaded his three year deal but not sure
Robinson - cut - if it saves money, not sure with him being out so many games this year what that did to his contract

Move some money around, but not for Goff. If needed also release Hekker.

There is nothing more important than supporting Goff next season.

Even letting Brock, Robinson and Hekker go, that might get us down to the salary cap, but I hope that isn't the case and that allows us to focus on the OL and a WR.

I would do whatever we can to attain a better guard - maybe the Titans let Saffold go for cap constraints and we can bring him back? And a WR like Robbie Anderson (he may have played himself into a bigger contract, but an average WR that's fast is what I'm going for).

Then in the draft I want a QB first - insurance for next year - followed by OL and another fast WR that can return punts. Then with our day three picks, supplement depth on defense.


Tough decisions are incoming, but IMO McVay's biggest folly was banking on Goff being successful without an elite supporting cast. What that means in hindsight is irrelevant - going forward we need to see if Goff can lead us to a Super Bowl, and a defense with these guys:

AD, Ramsey, Williams, Fuller, SJD, Fox, Burgess, Rapp, and Lewis make this an average to above average defense.

One issue with putting $60 million into our front four (Brock, AD, Robinson, Floyd) is that on any given play, the OL can hold them like yesterday. Seattle's front was almost as good as ours, probably because they held more than we did, and I think it's paid one third of what ours is.

We've invested too much into our defense + Kupp + Woods + Goff - which leaves out a deep threat and our OL. Next year we will have to rectify that if we want Goff to bounce back. Whether we should have to do that or not is another discussion - the point is that with Goff we have to if we want him to be successful.