Number 2 Pick: Rams On The Clock

[Tron]

Seantrel?
He does have the size, but apparently not much of a work ethic. At least according to Al Golden.

Boudreau is a very good coach, but you have to want to improve for any coaching to work.

Henderson has had some problems, but has done better last year at not making them. Though he did get suspended one game. If we could grab him in the 4th or 5th i'd love it. He is a high risk player, but the rewards could be enormous. We don't have to much depth at tackle besides Saffold, who shouldn't be moved outside ever.

 

[Warner4Prez]

I just hope it's an OT. I suppose I don't care who. I'd take the man who's read to play and has those NFL bloodlines. Matthews might not have the "upside" but he has the right here, right now, ready to rock so there's that.

 

[Thordaddy]

I just hope it's an OT. I suppose I don't care who. I'd take the man who's read to play and has those NFL bloodlines. Matthews might not have the "upside" but he has the right here, right now, ready to rock so there's that.

I don't know what upside is if it isn't experience

 

[Rams and Gators]

If the season started today what do the Rams have @ both OG posts who could start ? .....Naw were in great shape..Fishers has Brandon Washington & Harvey Dahl ...what ?....you say that Harvey can't start cuz he just had ankle surgery and his knee MCL strain is still giving him a lot of trouble...OK then we will start Mike Persons & Brandon Washington then...were still fine!

If Snead made this very raw incomplete OLT who just happen to destroyed all who lined up in front of him this season the top selection Gerald Robinson would sure get a lot of work. Jake Long who if you recall just a few days ago had a doctors visit so he may be out a while but he is sure to be close to 100% healed with some conditioning under his belt by the first regular game.....but Jake will certainly miss all of Training camp & Pre Season. I wonder who could play OLT & get some serious reps up against the Rams RDE (I don't recall his name Bob or Rob somebody) anyway by the time season started there might be a small hole the size of the Grand Canyon a few feet right of the OLT post that he could get inserted into???? when & if Jake Long returns to previous OLT playing form.

I think we have bigger problems, Fisher has to decide who's starting the game at QB, it's a choice between Davis and Hekker and Johnny is all the way over in Hawaii :wow:.

 

[MerlinJones]

Henderson has had some problems, but has done better last year at not making them. Though he did get suspended one game. If we could grab him in the 4th or 5th i'd love it. He is a high risk player, but the rewards could be enormous. We don't have to much depth at tackle besides Saffold, who shouldn't be moved outside ever.

I'm always a bit leery of guys with superior physical attributes who never seem to get it together.
A lot of times if it's not due to injuries it can point to character/motivation issues that can be hard to get past.
That being said if he were drafted 4th or 5th on he may be worth a shot.

Totally agree about OT depth and Saffold as well.

 

[V3]

I just hope it's an OT. I suppose I don't care who. I'd take the man who's read to play and has those NFL bloodlines. Matthews might not have the "upside" but he has the right here, right now, ready to rock so there's that.

What's the point in the "right here, right now" player if he'd just play OG or sit on the bench as a backup? He's not going to play ahead of Long and there's no reason to replace Barksdale. It'd be nice to have a good backup at OT but you don't take those with a first round pick, let alone the 2nd overall pick. Also, the Rams have stated many times they are happy with Long starting at LT. People believe the Rams when they say Sam is their QB. Why wouldn't they believe them when they say the same about Long?

 

[Memphis Ram]

What's the point in the "right here, right now" player if he'd just play OG or sit on the bench as a backup? He's not going to play ahead of Long and there's no reason to replace Barksdale. It'd be nice to have a good backup at OT but you don't take those with a first round pick, let alone the 2nd overall pick. Also, the Rams have stated many times they are happy with Long starting at LT. People believe the Rams when they say Sam is their QB. Why wouldn't they believe them when they say the same about Long?

Long hasn't been able to stay healthy for a few years now. Robinson would be great insurance if he didn't and could be a dominant OG in the meantime. Remember, back in the day, Hall of Famers Jonathan Ogden and Chris Hinton started off at OG as rookies, too.

 

[mr.stlouis]

we wont be picking #2, we will be picking either 3rd or 8th IMO, Cleveland is a possibility to trade with because at #4 they are just out of the range of the top 3 QBs, the Vikings are a possibility because they need a QB before they waste all APs good years. other than those 2 I don't think anyone trades down. if your going to trade to get to Clowney I don't think you need to be higher than #4, the first 3 picks will be QBs IMO.
hopefully we trade with the Browns get the number 4 pick plus a second or third this year and a first for next year, then we trade the number 4 pick to someone who wants Clowney for another second or third this year and a first or second for next year. I know its a bit farfetched but hey a guy can dream cant he?

Exactly.

It we do pick at #2 then I'd say pick BPA, which is Cowney.

 

[V3]

Long hasn't been able to stay healthy for a few years now. Robinson would be great insurance if he didn't and could be a dominant OG in the meantime. Remember, back in the day, Hall of Famers Jonathan Ogden and Chris Hinton started off at OG as rookies, too.

That's an awfully expensive OG (in terms of draft value, not so much in terms of money). I also prefer to spend first rounders on skill positions. Skill positions are harder to find and taking an OT at the top doesn't really correlate to winning. Way too many examples of good OT's that were taken at the top whose team didn't do anything(Long with MIA, Thomas, Kalil, Trent Williams, etc.). Plenty of examples of teams that won the SB with less than elite OT's, as well (David Diehl, Chad Clifton, Bushrod, etc.).

Maybe it's just me but I just don't think LT is worth it unless you're desperate and I don't think the Rams are. It also depends on the players in that particular draft but I'm not really amazed by any in this class at the top, either.

 

[BonifayRam]

What's the point in the "right here, right now" player if he'd just play OG or sit on the bench as a backup? He's not going to play ahead of Long and there's no reason to replace Barksdale. It'd be nice to have a good backup at OT but you don't take those with a first round pick, let alone the 2nd overall pick. Also, the Rams have stated many times they are happy with Long starting at LT. People believe the Rams when they say Sam is their QB. Why wouldn't they believe them when they say the same about Long?

What's the point in the "right here, right now" player if he'd just play OG or sit on the bench as a backup?
If Snead were to select GR or JM with the top pick what makes you think that this OT prospect is a candidate for "sit on the bench as a back up"? I was under the impression that the Rams have 2013 Ol starters Rodger Saffold, Chris Williams, Shelley Smith & Tim Barnes are not under Rams contacts for the 2014 season...in addition two other starters Scott Wells & Harvey Dahl both @ some stage of rehab for injuries & surgeries on top of that both are highly probable cap casualties. If my math is right that's a total of SIX Ram starters at one time or another in 2013.

He's not going to play ahead of Long
Didn't long just undergo his second knee surgery a few days back? is there some questions that he might not be 100% for the opening season game? Who will take up the OLT post in training camp? or in Pre-season? Is it that uncommon that some players never return to form after such ACL/MCL damage? After 6 major surgeries or more on Long's body when do they start to take their toll on his on field performance? I a little long in the tooth in many decades of being a serious fan not to have some concerns in this type situation. Even the great Orlando Pace only had less that half the surgeries that Long has undergone when he began his rapid decline @ OLT.

and there's no reason to replace Barksdale.
Barksdale is not a powerhouse @ ORT he just happens to be the best the Rams have. Barksdale is also a UFA next season too. So when do you start to prepare & develop a new ORT after Barksdale departs or a season before?

It'd be nice to have a good backup at OT
Yes it would I not happy with our current back up Sean Hooey either so would I be wrong to say the Rams are currently missing a back up OLT & ORT right?

but you don't take those with a first round pick, let alone the 2nd overall pick.
Ok but V3 Fishers past season the Rams only two back up OT's were a former #1 pick(Chris Williams) & the first high 2nd round pick in the 2010 draft(Roger Saffold). So in fact the Rams did do what you said you don't do. Lucky for Fisher he did do that.

Also, the Rams have stated many times they are happy with Long starting at LT.
Which Long the Long before the ACL/MCL or the Long after the injury?

People believe the Rams when they say Sam is their QB. Why wouldn't they believe them when they say the same about Long?
I believe the Rams are very happy with the Jake Long 2013 overall performance before the injuries.

 

[Memphis Ram]

we wont be picking #2, we will be picking either 3rd or 8th IMO, Cleveland is a possibility to trade with because at #4 they are just out of the range of the top 3 QBs, the Vikings are a possibility because they need a QB before they waste all APs good years. other than those 2 I don't think anyone trades down. if your going to trade to get to Clowney I don't think you need to be higher than #4, the first 3 picks will be QBs IMO.
hopefully we trade with the Browns get the number 4 pick plus a second or third this year and a first for next year, then we trade the number 4 pick to someone who wants Clowney for another second or third this year and a first or second for next year. I know its a bit farfetched but hey a guy can dream cant he?

Gee. I question if Clowney will even be on the board after the #1 overall selection and you don't think they need to higher than #4? Perhaps most are dreaming of that scenario, but it's highly unlikely that 3 QBs go 1-2-3.

 

[Memphis Ram]

That's an awfully expensive OG (in terms of draft value, not so much in terms of money). I also prefer to spend first rounders on skill positions. Skill positions are harder to find and taking an OT at the top doesn't really correlate to winning. Way too many examples of good OT's that were taken at the top whose team didn't do anything(Long with MIA, Thomas, Kalil, Trent Williams, etc.). Plenty of examples of teams that won the SB with less than elite OT's, as well (David Diehl, Chad Clifton, Bushrod, etc.).

Maybe it's just me but I just don't think LT is worth it unless you're desperate and I don't think the Rams are. It also depends on the players in that particular draft but I'm not really amazed by any in this class at the top, either.

Works both ways. There are plenty examples of teams that selected skill position players high whose teams haven't done much, too. And there are way too many examples of good skill position players taken later and on Super Bowl winning teams.

 

[BonifayRam]

That's an awfully expensive OG (in terms of draft value, not so much in terms of money). I also prefer to spend first rounders on skill positions. Skill positions are harder to find and taking an OT at the top doesn't really correlate to winning. Way too many examples of good OT's that were taken at the top whose team didn't do anything(Long with MIA, Thomas, Kalil, Trent Williams, etc.). Plenty of examples of teams that won the SB with less than elite OT's, as well (David Diehl, Chad Clifton, Bushrod, etc.).

Maybe it's just me but I just don't think LT is worth it unless you're desperate and I don't think the Rams are. It also depends on the players in that particular draft but I'm not really amazed by any in this class at the top, either.

Last yrs #2 overall OL'er Luke Joeckel 2013 cap cost for the season was $3,854,836 I wonder what most good 2014 UFA OG's would cost in 2014? Do we have any cap $$ to spend after our draft picks are signed? I think that cost for a good OG will cost a bit more ...look what we will paid center Scott Wells this season 6.5 million. I was of the opinion that OLT were considered one of the top skilled positions in the NFL maybe I am wrong?

Who were the teams QB's when long was in Miami? Who was Joe Thomas's QB's? Who has been Matt Kalil QB's ? Who has been Trent Williams QB's any of their QB's as good as a Sam Bradford? I have been forced to watch the Seahawks a lot this post season & I have seen a ton of excellent blocks from a first round pick named James Carpenter who plays OT for the SB bound team just in-case we need a current in your face former #1 pick OT.

 

[V3]

What's the point in the "right here, right now" player if he'd just play OG or sit on the bench as a backup?
If Snead were to select GR or JM with the top pick what makes you think that this OT prospect is a candidate for "sit on the bench as a back up"? I was under the impression that the Rams have 2013 Ol starters Rodger Saffold, Chris Williams, Shelley Smith & Tim Barnes are not under Rams contacts for the 2014 season...in addition two other starters Scott Wells & Harvey Dahl both @ some stage of rehab for injuries & surgeries on top of that both are highly probable cap casualties. If my math is right that's a total of SIX Ram starters at one time or another in 2013.

He's not going to play ahead of Long
Didn't long just undergo his second knee surgery a few days back? is there some questions that he might not be 100% for the opening season game? Who will take up the OLT post in training camp? or in Pre-season? Is it that uncommon that some players never return to form after such ACL/MCL damage? After 6 major surgeries or more on Long's body when do they start to take their toll on his on field performance? I a little long in the tooth in many decades of being a serious fan not to have some concerns in this type situation. Even the great Orlando Pace only had less that half the surgeries that Long has undergone when he began his rapid decline @ OLT.

and there's no reason to replace Barksdale.
Barksdale is not a powerhouse @ ORT he just happens to be the best the Rams have. Barksdale is also a UFA next season too. So when do you start to prepare & develop a new ORT after Barksdale departs or a season before?

It'd be nice to have a good backup at OT
Yes it would I not happy with our current back up Sean Hooey either so would I be wrong to say the Rams are currently missing a back up OLT & ORT right?

but you don't take those with a first round pick, let alone the 2nd overall pick.
Ok but V3 Fishers past season the Rams only two back up OT's were a former #1 pick(Chris Williams) & the first high 2nd round pick in the 2010 draft(Roger Saffold). So in fact the Rams did do what you said you don't do. Lucky for Fisher he did do that.

Also, the Rams have stated many times they are happy with Long starting at LT.
Which Long the Long before the ACL/MCL or the Long after the injury?

People believe the Rams when they say Sam is their QB. Why wouldn't they believe them when they say the same about Long?
I believe the Rams are very happy with the Jake Long 2013 overall performance before the injuries.

If you're worried so much about Long's injuries, then why aren't you as worried about Bradford? Lots of injuries dating back to his college days and he hasn't performed as well as Long has, yet I haven't heard anyone on this forum saying they should draft a QB at the top to be the backup just in case. QB is a much more important position, too.

Barksdale is just fine at RT. It's a waste to use a high pick to replace him. You'd be getting horrible value if you did that. I know you don't like him that much but the Rams think(as do I) he's a solid player and he's only going to get better. He probably won't cost that much after next year, either.

Those high draft pick backups that you mention (Williams, Saffold) were not taken by Fisher, so no, he didn't use a high pick to take a backup and I wouldn't even consider Saffold in that because he was taken in the 2nd and I'm fine with taking an OT or OG there. Williams was just a horrible pick that Fisher tried to salvage and IMO it didn't work out.

The Rams have stated MANY MANY times very recently that they are confident that Long will be the starter on day 1. They think he'll be perfectly fine after the surgery. Fisher, Demoff, and Snead have all said this.

And with that last part, you're really not answering my question. The Rams have said they are happy with both Sam and Long. They were happy with the way they played before the injuries. The Rams continue to say they are happy going forward with both in the future- after injuries. Now why is it that when the Rams say they believe in Sam as their QB of the future, no one bats an eye but when they say they believe in Long playing LT for the Rams in the future, they suddenly don't trust the Rams' word/judgement anymore?

 

[V3]

Last yrs #2 overall OL'er Luke Joeckel 2013 cap cost for the season was $3,854,836 I wonder what most good 2014 UFA OG's would cost in 2014? Do we have any cap $$ to spend after our draft picks are signed? I think that cost for a good OG will cost a bit more ...look what we will paid center Scott Wells this season 6.5 million. I was of the opinion that OLT were considered one of the top skilled positions in the NFL maybe I am wrong?

Who were the teams QB's when long was in Miami? Who was Joe Thomas's QB's? Who has been Matt Kalil QB's ? Who has been Trent Williams QB's any of their QB's as good as a Sam Bradford? I have been forced to watch the Seahawks a lot this post season & I have seen a ton of excellent blocks from a first round pick named James Carpenter who plays OT for the SB bound team just in-case we need a current in your face former #1 pick OT.

All I hear around this forum is that the QB gets too much credit for winning and too much credit for losing. If it's not the QB, then it shouldn't matter in those examples.

 

[BonifayRam]

If you're worried so much about Long's injuries, then why aren't you as worried about Bradford? Lots of injuries dating back to his college days and he hasn't performed as well as Long has, yet I haven't heard anyone on this forum saying they should draft a QB at the top to be the backup just in case. QB is a much more important position, too.

Barksdale is just fine at RT. It's a waste to use a high pick to replace him. You'd be getting horrible value if you did that. I know you don't like him that much but the Rams think(as do I) he's a solid player and he's only going to get better. He probably won't cost that much after next year, either.

Those high draft pick backups that you mention (Williams, Saffold) were not taken by Fisher, so no, he didn't use a high pick to take a backup and I wouldn't even consider Saffold in that because he was taken in the 2nd and I'm fine with taking an OT or OG there. Williams was just a horrible pick that Fisher tried to salvage and IMO it didn't work out.

The Rams have stated MANY MANY times very recently that they are confident that Long will be the starter on day 1. They think he'll be perfectly fine after the surgery. Fisher, Demoff, and Snead have all said this.

And with that last part, you're really not answering my question. The Rams have said they are happy with both Sam and Long. They were happy with the way they played before the injuries. The Rams continue to say they are happy going forward with both in the future- after injuries. Now why is it that when the Rams say they believe in Sam as their QB of the future, no one bats an eye but when they say they believe in Long playing LT for the Rams in the future, they suddenly don't trust the Rams' word/judgement anymore?

V3, sir I am concerned about Sam Bradford past injuries. That's why I am such an advocate to push for the Org. to provide him with the best protection they can. Bradford has had only two major surgeries One to his shoulder & One ACL to his left knee ...two too many but not close to the body work that has taken place on long who has 3 times or more surgeries in addition to the many injuries that did not need surgery but time to mend.

To answer your big question ....The fact is the Ram Org. has not seen Jake Long play yet with his newly reconstructed ACL/MCL knee yet either. That's where I am at.

 

[V3]

Works both ways. There are plenty examples of teams that selected skill position players high whose teams haven't done much, too. And there are way too many examples of good skill position players taken later and on Super Bowl winning teams.

I think a team has a better chance at winning a SB if they have an elite QB with elite skill position players surrounding him. I don't consider a LT to be a "skilled" position. Some may argue that but I think that starts getting into semantics. If a team has an elite QB and elite skill players and just a serviceable LT, I like their chances better than a team that has an elite LT and serviceable skill players. I want Pro Bowlers at the skill positions. If we have that, I don't think we'll need an elite LT. I think Fisher believes in this philosophy as well considering his draft history.

 

[Memphis Ram]

As far as the Bradford and Long on the injury front, could it be that Bradford just turned 26 and that he's played in every game in 2 of his 4 seasons? On the other hand Jake Long is about to turn 29 and hadn't played a full season since 2010. Not only that, but mostly importantly, the 2014 draft isn't just about the 2014 season.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I think a team has a better chance at winning a SB if they have an elite QB with elite skill position players surrounding him. I don't consider a LT to be a "skilled" position. Some may argue that but I think that starts getting into semantics. If a team has an elite QB and elite skill players and just a serviceable LT, I like their chances better than a team that has an elite LT and serviceable skill players. I want Pro Bowlers at the skill positions. If we have that, I don't think we'll need an elite LT. I think Fisher believes in this philosophy as well considering his draft history.

I believe the Rams best chance to win is to build the best Oline possible to protect the guy responsible for getting the ball into the skill positions players hands. Especially given the team's blueprint of running the football and playing strong defense.

 

[V3]

V3, sir I am concerned about Sam Bradford past injuries. That's why I am such an advocate to push for the Org. to provide him with the best protection they can. Bradford has had only two major surgeries One to his shoulder & One ACL to his left knee ...two too many but not close to the body work that has taken place on long who has 3 times or more surgeries in addition to the many injuries that did not need surgery but time to mend.

To answer your big question ....The fact is the Ram Org. has not seen Jake Long play yet with his newly reconstructed ACL/MCL knee yet either. That's where I am at.

I get that you [hl]REALLY [/hl] want an OT. That's fine. I don't see it as being that big of a need...at least not just yet. If they find that Long is done after next season, I believe they can still find one that will be just fine in either the draft or through another Boudreau special. We disagree on this. That's cool. That's what makes this place better than others. We can still be in opposite corners and still hug afterwards. :cheese: