No Excuses For Rams. Just Look at Arizona

[LACHAMP46]

I've no doubt if we lined up to play a pickup game no coaches no refs we'd win.

That's a feeling I have too, every Sunday....and makes losing worse.....

 

[SixthGauge]

And if my aunt had a ...... she'd be my uncle

No doubt she would.

You seem to be insinuating the Rams had it easy against the Cardinals last year, since we didn't get a "double dose" of Palmer.

I'm just saying it works both ways.

 

[Krangthebrain]

No doubt she would.

You seem to be insinuating the Rams had it easy against the Cardinals last year, since we didn't get a "double dose" of Palmer.

I'm just saying it works both ways.

Sure it does.

You guys also faced a team still acclimating to Arians system, a team without any healthy RBs, a team with a weaker offensive line, a team with a less than 50% Tyrann Mathieu. By anyone's judgement who has watched this years Cardinals vs. last years Cardinals, this years version is significantly better.

 

[Krangthebrain]

Right? Trust me, this is the closest he's ever come to an actual discussion when it comes to the Rams. His usual shtick back where he comes from is to break into the conversation with the insightful "The Rams are trash"

I've got a photo of him ready to post once he get's banned so we can have our fun....because here at ROD we're classy like that.
My people are all over it.

If you are who I think you are, then how can you act like you weren't trolling our board when you had an avatar of Calvin pissing on the Cardinals logo? Stay classy....

And the comment that Ramzfanz was making on our board would get a Cardinals fan BANNED on this board.

 

[FrantikRam]

Now Palmer is elite? My God.

He's playing great right now, but he's not an elite QB. C'mon.

The only time Arians and Fisher have squared off with starting QBs, the Rams won. I'm guessing the Cardinals win this week, because the game is in AZ, and we win in St. Louis. It's been a great start to the season for the Cardinals, but I've never seen a fan base act so Cowboy or Steeler-ish this quickly into the season considering the abysmal history of the franchise overall.

Not to attack the posters, but coming off Cowboy/Steeler like as a fan is about the biggest insult you can get.

 

[RamFan503]

No. That is how the saying goes.....or were you being facetious?

I can't help it if the proverb has been bastardized over the years or is simply wrong. Attracting flies with honey would be like saying "busy as a sloth".

But let's take a look at it - shall we?. You can try attracting flies with honey and you know what you are going to get? Maybe a couple fruit flies but no real flies at all. The simple fact is that though the idea that honey is sweeter and therefore would be an attractant for flies, it just isn't the case. Now vinegar is also not a good attractant for your standard house fly but is a very good attractant for fruit flies. You can catch a butt load of fruit flies by using vinegar. In fact, most fruit fly traps contain vinegar as their main attractant with just a little bit of soap in it to kill the flies.

I think it should be duly noted that as such is the case, you are actually going to catch more flies with vinegar than you would with honey rendering the idea that the saying is not only inaccurate but in fact a misconstruction of the real saying that interchanges bees and bears much like the saying "busy as a bee" can be said as "busy as a beaver".

Now if you are a bear hunter, you know that baiting them is done with a combination of cooking oil and honey. Therefore, what are you doing? You are trying to attract more bears by using honey. What did Whinny the Pooh love more than anything in the world? Honey. What caused him to get stuck? His overwhelming attraction to honey.

Now - when bee keepers, before the use of pheromones, wanted to attract new bees for their hives, what do you think they used? That's right - honey. In fact, if you put honey out on a warm sunny day, you will very quickly find bees buzzing around. What you won't find is flies. Well - unless you happen to either combine it with shit or have an unfortunately placed pile of shit nearby.

I understand that you would be confused just as the many people who misuse the saying each and every day but it is never too late to correct your misdirected ways. I believe you should see now why the saying is being wrongly used and what once was indeed based on the reality of attracting bees and bears is now FUBARed by yet another example of generations mixing up their metaphors.

 

[Krangthebrain]

Now Palmer is elite? My God.

He's playing great right now, but he's not an elite QB. C'mon.

I don't think you were addressing this point at me, but Palmer has been elite this year and was on his way to playing like an elite QB last year before his injuries.

The only time Arians and Fisher have squared off with starting QBs, the Rams won.

In a vacuum, your comment would have some merit, but consider this:

First game Arians coached. Palmer was terrible that year, the entire offense STRUGGLED mightily to learn his offensive system. The entire offense basically came out and said that learning his system was difficult, but Arians told them tough crap, learn my system. The Cardinals blew that game after having the lead for the majority of the game.

I'm guessing the Cardinals win this week, because the game is in AZ, and we win in St. Louis.

You might win in St. Louis, but remember the Cardinals beat the Rams fairly easily with Ryan Lindley at QB last year. RYAN LINDLEY.

It's been a great start to the season for the Cardinals, but I've never seen a fan base act so Cowboy or Steeler-ish this quickly into the season considering the abysmal history of the franchise overall.

And I would say that Rams fans on this forum are quite cocky considering the Rams performance over the past decade, which has been abysmal. During that span, The Cardinals have been to a Super Bowl and have gone to the playoffs 4 times. This is a different Cardinals team compared with what we were 20 years ago. The Cardinals have been MORE successful than the Cowboys (I think we've beaten them like 6 or 7 straight times now).

Most of us have been around for a long time. I was a fan during the dark ages of Buddy Ryan, Vince Tobin, Dave McGinness (worst coach I've ever seen), and Dennis Green.

Not to attack the posters, but coming off Cowboy/Steeler like as a fan is about the biggest insult you can get.

I think we (Cardinals fans) have a perception of Rams fans as well, but I would probably get in trouble for even saying what it is. The fact of the matter is that since 2007, which is around the time the Cardinals started to turn the corner, the Cardinals have gone 12-4 against the Rams. Pretty one sided match up if you ask me.

 

[RamFan503]

If you are who I think you are, then how can you act like you weren't trolling our board when you had an avatar of Calvin pissing on the Cardinals logo? Stay classy....

And the comment that Ramzfanz was making on our board would get a Cardinals fan BANNED on this board.

Pretty simple if you asked me. When you came on here, you started playing by the rules apparently established by the board you are used to. When you came here, you realized a different set of rules. So if the rules over there were being violated by Rams fans - be it from this board or any other - the logical thing would have been to ban them or warn them there. As it is, you are on our board and are required to play by our board rules here.

And BTW - you won't find me trolling you board. Just not something I do. But I'm not going to get on any of our members for doing so. That is up to whoever runs or moderates your board.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I can't help it if the proverb has been bastardized over the years or is simply wrong. Attracting flies with honey would be like saying "busy as a sloth".

But let's take a look at it - shall we?. You can try attracting flies with honey and you know what you are going to get? Maybe a couple fruit flies but no real flies at all. The simple fact is that though the idea that honey is sweeter and therefore would be an attractant for flies, it just isn't the case. Now vinegar is also not a good attractant for your standard house fly but is a very good attractant for fruit flies. You can catch a butt load of fruit flies by using vinegar. In fact, most fruit fly traps contain vinegar as their main attractant with just a little bit of soap in it to kill the flies.

I think it should be duly noted that as such is the case, you are actually going to catch more flies with vinegar than you would with honey rendering the idea that the saying is not only inaccurate but in fact a misconstruction of the real saying that interchanges bees and bears much like the saying "busy as a bee" can be said as "busy as a beaver".

Now if you are a bear hunter, you know that baiting them is done with a combination of cooking oil and honey. Therefore, what are you doing? You are trying to attract more bears by using honey. What did Whinny the Pooh love more than anything in the world? Honey. What caused him to get stuck? His overwhelming attraction to honey.

Now - when bee keepers, before the use of pheromones, wanted to attract new bees for their hives, what do you think they used? That's right - honey. In fact, if you put honey out on a warm sunny day, you will very quickly find bees buzzing around. What you won't find is flies. Well - unless you happen to either combine it with crap or have an unfortunately placed pile of crap nearby.

I understand that you would be confused just as the many people who misuse the saying each and every day but it is never too late to correct your misdirected ways. I believe you should see now why the saying is being wrongly used and what once was indeed based on the reality of attracting bees and bears is now FUBARed by yet another example of generations mixing up their metaphors.

Most intelligent post in the thread!

 

[RamFan503]

Most intelligent post in the thread!

Not sure about that but it was just kinda fun to write. I need that sometimes. Makes me want to hit @-X- with a Lemon Jelly Filled Donut.

 

[Krangthebrain]

Pretty simple if you asked me. When you came on here, you started playing by the rules apparently established by the board you are used to. When you came here, you realized a different set of rules. So if the rules over there were being violated by Rams fans - be it from this board or any other - the logical thing would have been to ban them or warn them there. As it is, you are on our board and are required to play by our board rules here.

And BTW - you won't find me trolling you board. Just not something I do. But I'm not going to get on any of our members for doing so. That is up to whoever runs or moderates your board.

Oh I understand completely, and while I think the rules are a bit strict here, I do appreciate the "no tolerance" on personal attacks.

As I've said, I'm not here to troll. This is a really good Rams board, and I'm enjoying the spirited debate. And I will be here next week regardless of the outcome of the game....

 

[FrantikRam]

I don't think you were addressing this point at me, but Palmer has been elite this year and was on his way to playing like an elite QB last year before his injuries.



In a vacuum, your comment would have some merit, but consider this:

First game Arians coached. Palmer was terrible that year, the entire offense STRUGGLED mightily to learn his offensive system. The entire offense basically came out and said that learning his system was difficult, but Arians told them tough crap, learn my system. The Cardinals blew that game after having the lead for the majority of the game.




You might win in St. Louis, but remember the Cardinals beat the Rams fairly easily with Ryan Lindley at QB last year. RYAN LINDLEY.



And I would say that Rams fans on this forum are quite cocky considering the Rams performance over the past decade, which has been abysmal. During that span, The Cardinals have been to a Super Bowl and have gone to the playoffs 4 times. This is a different Cardinals team compared with what we were 20 years ago. The Cardinals have been MORE successful than the Cowboys (I think we've beaten them like 6 or 7 straight times now).

Most of us have been around for a long time. I was a fan during the dark ages of Buddy Ryan, Vince Tobin, Dave McGinness (worst coach I've ever seen), and Dennis Green.



I think we (Cardinals fans) have a perception of Rams fans as well, but I would probably get in trouble for even saying what it is. The fact of the matter is that since 2007, which is around the time the Cardinals started to turn the corner, the Cardinals have gone 12-4 against the Rams. Pretty one sided match up if you ask me.

SOME Rams fans come off as cocky...I'm not one of them. You're on a Rams board - obviously you're going to get all different kinds of fans, and mostly - shockingly - Rams fans.

Talking about how the Cardinals won "fairly easily" in St. Louis last year with a backup is irrelevant to me. We were both playing 3rd string caliber QBs, and the Cardinals were definitively better than the Rams last year.

I realize the Cardinals have been doing well, but it's asinine to say that Palmer is an elite QB - playing like one and being one are not the same. Palmer has never been thought of as an elite QB.

Assigning team wins to Palmer is stupid. He and Russell Wilson have been the biggest beneficiaries of the idiotic trend of assigning W/L records to QBs. Palmer has played well, yes. But if the Cardinals offense never took the field last week, they still would have won the game. Not literally, but still....think about that.

Why use the time the Cardinals started to turn the corner? The Rams were TERRIBLE and have had multiple coaches since then. Let's either use when Fisher started or when Arians started. Since Fisher's arrival we are 3-3 against the Cardinals, 3-0 with a starting caliber QB playing for us.

Since Arians started, we are 1-3 against the Cardinals with two double digit losses at Arizona - but in those games Kellen Clemens and Austin Davis were the starters. The battle of 3rd stringers ended 12-6. Not so one sided since Arians and Fisher have been coaching.

The Cardinals are on fire - certainly enjoy it - but coming to another team's forum and talking like you guys have makes you come off poorly - and considering there aren't that many Cardinal fans on here, it skews the perception even more.

You guys have had a very fortunate schedule...but you have dominated bad teams. I can't see the Rams winning Sunday, but I also can't remember the last time a playoff team started the next season with 3-4 games at home, and none of those games against a playoff team from the prior year. I guess what I'm really trying to say is...if you come here, be respectful of the Rams, even if you think it'll be a blowout Sunday. Don't blindly defend the Cardinals and support comments like "Palmer is elite", because your credibility takes a massive hit. Palmer is a very good QB, but he's nowhere near Brady/Rodgers/Roethlisberger right now. I look at the Cardinals and I see a talented team that has put it together...I look at the Rams I see a talented team that hasn't put it together yet. But I need to see more from the Cardinals before I can honestly assess them...need to see them against some good teams.

 

[RamFan503]

Oh I understand completely, and while I think the rules are a bit strict here, I do appreciate the "no tolerance" on personal attacks.

As I've said, I'm not here to troll. This is a really good Rams board, and I'm enjoying the spirited debate. And I will be here next week regardless of the outcome of the game....

Good to see. And yes you are giving spirited debate. I like it.

 

[RamFan503]

BTW @FrantikRam and @Krangthebrain how about an avatar so it looks like you are real people. Or does your mom dress you funny for reals.

 

[VegasRam]

Can't wait. alm:

 

[VegasRam]

Oh I understand completely, and while I think the rules are a bit strict here, I do appreciate the "no tolerance" on personal attacks.

As I've said, I'm not here to troll. This is a really good Rams board, and I'm enjoying the spirited debate. And I will be here next week regardless of the outcome of the game....

Can't wait. alm:

 

[RamFan503]

 

[Krangthebrain]

SOME Rams fans come off as cocky...I'm not one of them. You're on a Rams board - obviously you're going to get all different kinds of fans, and mostly - shockingly - Rams fans.

Just pointing out the obvious; You feel we seem "cocky", but I'm just letting you know that the Cardinals have kind of turned things around. The Cardinals are a winning franchise now. Pointing out the team's W/L records from 1984 is kind of irrelevant.

Talking about how the Cardinals won "fairly easily" in St. Louis last year with a backup is irrelevant to me. We were both playing 3rd string caliber QBs, and the Cardinals were definitively better than the Rams last year.

And playing a third string (practice squad) RB. And with a less than 50% Tyrann Mathieu, who I think will be a Pro Bowler this year and will get some distant consideration for Defensive MVP this year, he is that good.

I realize the Cardinals have been doing well, but it's asinine to say that Palmer is an elite QB - playing like one and being one are not the same. Palmer has never been thought of as an elite QB.

Palmer WAS an elite QB prior to his first ACL tear. He was a multi-Pro Bowl QB for the Cincinnati Bengals. I think Palmer's situation is shaping up much like Warner's did: a Qb who had a lot of success early in his career, faced mid-career injuries that affected his performance, rededicated himself late career. I think if Palmer keeps it up and stays healthy he IS an elite QB right now.

Regardless of what you think, he is a top QB right now. That is objective fact based on his performance.

Assigning team wins to Palmer is stupid. He and Russell Wilson have been the biggest beneficiaries of the idiotic trend of assigning W/L records to QBs. Palmer has played well, yes. But if the Cardinals offense never took the field last week, they still would have won the game. Not literally, but still....think about that.

So the Cardinals are significantly better with Carson Palmer? I mean, we were a dumpster fire once we started Ryan Lindley.

Why use the time the Cardinals started to turn the corner? The Rams were TERRIBLE and have had multiple coaches since then. Let's either use when Fisher started or when Arians started. Since Fisher's arrival we are 3-3 against the Cardinals, 3-0 with a starting caliber QB playing for us.

Since Arians started, we are 1-3 against the Cardinals with two double digit losses at Arizona - but in those games Kellen Clemens and Austin Davis were the starters. The battle of 3rd stringers ended 12-6. Not so one sided since Arians and Fisher have been coaching.

The Cardinals have gone 3-1 against the Rams under both team's current regime. What happened on Whisenhunt isn't at all relevant. Only like 6 or 7 players from those teams are still around.

Honestly, I don't think Nick Foles is a good NFL QB. I think he is much closer to Kellen Clemens than Rams fans want to admit. He's a guy who fill the stat sheet, but lose when the game counts. So this talk of "The Cardinals are 0-1 when a real starting QB is playing" is ridiculous. N

The Cardinals are on fire - certainly enjoy it - but coming to another team's forum and talking like you guys have makes you come off poorly - and considering there aren't that many Cardinal fans on here, it skews the perception even more.

I'm sorry that I'm not bowing to the mighty greatness of the Rams....Nick Foles is the best QB in the NFL! The Rams WRs are LEET!

You guys have had a very fortunate schedule...but you have dominated bad teams.

Dominated like a good team should.

I can't see the Rams winning Sunday, but I also can't remember the last time a playoff team started the next season with 3-4 games at home, and none of those games against a playoff team from the prior year. I guess what I'm really trying to say is...if you come here, be respectful of the Rams, even if you think it'll be a blowout Sunday.

How am I (or we) being disrespectful of the Rams? I stated that Fisher had a losing record as a coach and got smacked down for that. I don't see how stating objective fact is disrespect.

I stated one time (and was warned and will refrain from now), that the Rams WR corps is a dumpster fire. I think most fans would agree that the Rams have a bottom five ranked WR corps. That is objective fact based on historical (and current) performance.

Don't blindly defend the Cardinals and support comments like "Palmer is elite", because your credibility takes a massive hit. Palmer is a very good QB, but he's nowhere near Brady/Rodgers/Roethlisberger right now.

Are you serious? Have you looked at Palmer's performance this year? He IS right with Brady/Rodgers right now. And his stats are BETTER than Roethlisbergers. It's not a fluke; he has legitimately played that well. Yes I will say it, and I'm supported by FACTS. Palmer is an elite QB right now.

I look at the Cardinals and I see a talented team that has put it together...I look at the Rams I see a talented team that hasn't put it together yet. But I need to see more from the Cardinals before I can honestly assess them...need to see them against some good teams.

Fair enough. You will see this weekend, and I'm not saying this in a cocky manner. You sound exactly like Saints fans did, and Bears fans, and 49ers fans. They all said exactly the same thing you guys are saying.

 

[JonRam99]

Soooo..... anyway, I think Bernie's article was missing a HUGE consideration: inherited legacy players.

QB: Fisher / Snead tried building the team around Bradford, who wasn't going anywhere for several years. 2012, ankle injures. 2013, injured in 7th game. 2014, out all year. When starting, he had good & bad plays, but it's not like we're talking about Andrew Luck--Bradford has his issues, especially w/ batted balls. In Oklahoma, he mostly stood like a statue in a spread offense. The QB position is the most important position on the team, & since Fisher arrived it's been chaos. Could they have picked up Palmer? Would Sam have had any of that?? So, first #1 overall pick albatross.

DE: the DE position is one of the most important pieces on a team, next to QB and LT. Chris has been good, but comparing him w/ Quinn is apples & oranges. He's a high-motor & effort guy, like Wistrom, but unless you arrive home @ the QB in a critical situation... He came from Virginia, where he was a 3-4 DE, which he might be more successful in this type of defense. In the end, another high (#2 overall) pick albatross.

Rams OL: absolute dumpster fire. Fisher traded Jason Smith, our "LT of the future", to the Jets in August of 2012. Another high (#2 overall) pick albatross. Earlier in the Spring, they cut Jason Brown, our "Center of the future". One can argue that the OL is where they should've started, but with talent depletions in virtually every department, they started out drafting Brockers, Quick, Jenkins & Pead in 2012, signed Finnegan & Scott Wells, & did everything possible to shore up as much of the team as quickly as they could. In 2013, they picked up Jake Long, hoping he still had some tread left on his tires, but we know how he & Scott Wells & Finnegan panned out. Jake was a vast improvement over Jason Smith, but never could stay healthy.

Overall, I think Fisher / Snead needs at least this year to prove themselves. They've drafted a bona-fide future HOF DT (Donald), developed Quinn, and addressed the O-Line over the last 2 years with Robinson, Hav, Jamon Brown (future pro-bowl Guard), Wichmann, Donnal, Rhaney, etc. I think this brand-new baby OL needs time to gel; I think our new OC is a vast improvement over the last one; I think Foles needs time to pick up the new OC's system & get in sync w/ his WR corps; I think Quick was on his way to becoming a pro-bowl caliber WR until he was injured (hopefully not permanently) & needs time to heal; our D, VASTLY improved under Fisher / Snead, just held Pittsburgh to 12 points. At this point, our record's 1-2, but we're one dropped football from being at least 2-1.

Compared to the Cards, who have 6 players remaining on their roster from pre-Arians... they picked up a #1 QB for peanuts (Palmer), one of their 6 remaining legacy players is FITZGERALD (did the Rams have ANYONE in his class as of 2012?), up until 2015 still had many legacy players from a Super Bowl team, etc. I'll be the first to admit that Fisher < Arians if we don't have a winning record by the end of this season--if we don't, & unless there's some incredible extenuating circumstances, he'll be on the hot seat in 2016.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Overall, I think Fisher / Snead needs at least this year to prove themselves.

A 5 year plan is very gracious!

Bet most rookie head coaches and GMs (regardless of their "inheritance) would love that long.