No Excuses For Rams. Just Look at Arizona

[blue4]

Palmer always had big time talent though. If he hadn't been injured I would have been considering him (at the time anyway) close to elite. The fact is - its alright saying "if we'd have had the cards schedule we'd be 3-0" -- but we didn't - and we probably wouldn't be. Everyone on the planet thought we'd beat the Redskins. Yes the D played well against Pittsburgh. They can play well again on Sunday. Or the offensive wheels could fall off the cart. We don't know which Rams team will turn up. I kind of feel we know the Cards will turn up and be tough to beat. We might win - we have the talent to do so - but who knows. After 4 years of this program that's (the inconsistency - not the fact we might or might not beat the Cards - that's understandable) a huge problem. It shouldn't be the case. Bernie makes the point that Arians-Keims have turned them around quicker than we've been turned around. That's a fair point. We've been severely held back by the lack of a proper QB now since Bradford went down in Carolina in 2013 week 8 but we still have had a lot of pieces on the board to move about and they haven't been good enough often enough (see Pead, Isaiah for exhibit A).

I agree, but I put more of it on Fisher than Snead. I think we've had enough players to bust .500 but we play Wells instead of Barnes or Person, we hold out Quick, we inexplicably stop using Zac Stacy when in power back situations, etc, etc.

 

[blue4]

It was figurative. But it would be to turn the tables. Bernie is trying his best to get the city to hate Stan and the Rams. If he left because of Bernie it would get the city to hate him too.

I don't live there though. Maybe the city already hates Bernie. My point really is that this guy is not helping matters at all. None of the post dispatch guys are.

The city doesn't hate Bernie. Why would they, when he kinda sums up the feelings of anger and betrayal? But we best stop this line of conversation before it goes further.

 

[Loyal]

The other part not mentioned by Bernie M., is the absolute wreckage he inherited. To compare Arians record asa HC at Arizona and Fishers first coouple of years isn't that comparable to me..We were Tampa Bay Buccaneer Expansion Team, bad, with our only bright side being the potential of Sam Bradford. ..and we know how that turned out.I'm for hanging Fisher this year if the team doesn't go 9-7 or better, but we are not even close to knowing how this season will end up...R-E-L-A-X.

 

[dieterbrock]

This is also worth repeating...

Not taking anything away from Keim-Arians(they've done a great job) but as Bernie stated... Palmer is 16-2 in his last 18 starts.
Where would they be with Drew Stanton starting the last 18 games? Would they have won more than 6 or 7 games a year? Would the Cardinals have been as successful without their veteran starting QB? Of course not.
They'd probably look like a talented team that goes 8-8 every year.

Of course the pink elephant in the room was when Arizona traded for Palmer, (I think it was for a ham sandwich) it seemed like the worst decision. Palmer seemed done and immobile. Arizona had a terrible offensive line which seemed to set up perfetcly for Palmer to get crushed. I hate to throw a straw man out there, but I feel *most* people thought it was a disaterous move

I hate to be agreeing with Bernie 2 times in a week but this article is spot on.

 

[dieterbrock]

The other part not mentioned by Bernie M., is the absolute wreckage he inherited. To compare Arians record asa HC at Arizona and Fishers first coouple of years isn't that comparable to me..We were Tampa Bay Buccaneer Expansion Team, bad, with our only bright side being the potential of Sam Bradford. ..and we know how that turned out.I'm for hanging Fisher this year if the team doesn't go 9-7 or better, but we are not even close to knowing how this season will end up...R-E-L-A-X.

Arians took over a last place (NFC West team) and in 2 years won the division and has a lead again. Fisher conversly took over a last place team and has stayed there 2 of 3 years.
Fisher inherited a bigger mess, no doubt, but the team tht Arians inherited was worse than the Rams at the time. Since then? Opposite directions

 

[Ramhusker]

GO RAMS!!!!!

 

[fearsomefour]

Bernie is kind of making an apples and oranges argument.
Yeah, the Cardinals have been more successful in the time frame he mentioned. Arians and Co was also starting with a much more talented roster.
The one thing that does frustrate me is their ability to improve their O line.
The Cardinals landing a good (not great) LT and Iupati while the Rams tried to splash with Long and Wells. So it goes sometimes.
The biggest factor, of course, is Palmer. He is a smart veteran. He was always a good QB, often stuck on subpar teams. But, he is a true pocket passer who can beat defenses with his understanding of the game. Guys trying to undersell him is a mistake as we are seeing.
That is what was missing in Arizona more than anything else post Warner. There were some other missing pieces, but, the Cardinals have done a good job transitioning from Warner to Palmer in relatively short period of time. They struggled in the time in between.

 

[blackbart]

The key that Bernie ignores

"No question, Snead and Fisher have improved this roster after taking charge of a team that had gone 15-65 in the five-season stretch (2007-2011) that preceded their arrival."

The Cardinals were not nearly as bad as the Rams when their new team took over, their defense already had some talent. When was the last time the Rams had a talent at QB as good as Palmer? WR as good as Fitz?

And as someone else already pointed out how good were they without Palmer vs how good would the Rams have been if Bradford had not been hurt.

Last point do they have the curse of Georgia hanging over them NO!!!

 

[LACHAMP46]

On the surface, the article makes solid points....Looking back though is easy...The Cards have used FA very wisely....and they still had pieces from a Championship losing team in place....
FA are the main difference between the 2 teams....Snisher has built something that should last & compete to win titles, longer.

 

[bskrilla]

all dump all the time" this year so far

It wasn't after the first game. When the team plays well they won't get dumped on.

 

[blue4]

On the surface, the article makes solid points....Looking back though is easy...The Cards have used FA very wisely....and they still had pieces from a Championship losing team in place....
FA are the main difference between the 2 teams....Snisher has built something that should last & compete to win titles, longer.

That's not the only difference. The mental aspects of the Cardinals are stronger. I've no doubt if we lined up to play a pickup game no coaches no refs we'd win. But we commit stupid penalties in the red zone, we run out of bounds on punts of our own free will, and run our offense like we're scared something bad will happen. Until Fisher takes care if that, we won't compete for anything. That's the main difference to me. We've both made good moves. Despite the Card's fans downplaying it, they'd kill for our DL. Foles, if he gets time to settle down, isn't that far behind Palmer and far younger. Despite the criticism from the last game, I like all of our LBers. We done good things too, it's the coaching and the mentality that separates us at this point 3 games in. Lots of football left. If we'd just grow up, and man up on offense, we'd have a good chance to be there in the end.

As for building something to last, Cards are young too. If they act now to find Palmers replacement for two years down the road our two teams will leave the others in the West behind IMO. But we gotta remove our head from our asses first, and Sundays as good a day to do that as any.

 

[Loyal]

Arians took over a last place (NFC West team) and in 2 years won the division and has a lead again. Fisher conversly took over a last place team and has stayed there 2 of 3 years.
Fisher inherited a bigger mess, no doubt, but the team tht Arians inherited was worse than the Rams at the time. Since then? Opposite directions

Do you really think so?
2013 is the critical season of comparison. The Rams have a mediocre Sam Bradford starting yet another new system that is scrapped after a few games..Then he (Bradford) is injured YET again during game 7, with Kellen Clemmens starting for the next 9 games. In Arian's initial season, they signed Carson Palmer, a true starting QB in the NFL for ALL 16 games. Our "weapon" was Tavon Austin drafted for the system that was scrapped early in the season, and then the OC didn't know how to use him..Arians inherrited Larry Fitzgerald.The main point being, the Cards were light years ahead of the Rams in Arians first year, because of their franchise QB and WR Larry Fitz....We were dumpsterfire bad in 2013, which we knew in short order that year.

 

[LesBaker]

I'll copy and paste what I posted on the Herd because this piece by Bernie is lame.

..............................

Fisher is one of MANY head coaches for this team.

Bernie knows there is no comparison to what the Cardinals had and the Rams had..........and he knows what draft odds are. My point is on the money, he is being intellectually dishonest, he isn't applying the same standard AND HE KNOWS IT. He does it willingly and that lacks journalistic integrity. He's paid to have an opinion and to fairly report what he sees and he uses that position to rehash the same tired arguments he's been puking up since Fisher shut the door on him.

He downplays this team having mediocre QB play with Bradford, then playing a couple of dozen games with backup QB's. He barely even touches on it.

I'm sorry but if he wants to make a point that Fisher isn't the guy that's fine. Frankly I don't care but this piece is just terrible and surface skimming.

 

[BatteringRambo]

Good for that Cardinals organization. I really could give a flying FUCK. There are so, so many attributes which have helped them as a whole even prior to 2012. I'm still holding firm we expose them on Sunday afternoon, it's always been the Rams-attitude in me and always will be.

 

[DthOn2Legs]

Hold on Bernie. Who have the Cards played? The Saints, the Bears and the Whiners. Meanwhile, the Rams have played the Seahawks, an overachieving Redskins, and the Steelers, holding them to 12 points.

I wouldn't call the Redskins an "overachieving" team. They scored 10 points vs. Miami for the Dolphins' only win--a team which gave up an average of 32 pts/game in their next two and they looked absolutely putrid vs. the Giants. And yes, the Rams held the Steelers to 12 points, but they scored six at home versus the then-25th-ranked defense. Until I see otherwise (and hopefully I see it this week from my seat on the 50 yard-line), the Rams are far more closer to the team we've seen in Weeks 2 and 3 than the team we saw in Week 1 that had three months to prepare for the Seahawks. Unfortunately, considering the Cards' margin of victory in their three games is three touchdowns more than the Rams have even scored this year, I'm not expecting to be all that surprised. Go Rams though.

 

[dieterbrock]

Do you really think so?
2013 is the critical season of comparison. The Rams have a mediocre Sam Bradford starting yet another new system that is scrapped after a few games..Then he (Bradford) is injured YET again during game 7, with Kellen Clemmens starting for the next 9 games. In Arian's initial season, they sign Carson Palmer, a true starting QB in the NFL for ALL 16 games. Our "weapon" is Tavon Austin drafted for the system that was scrapped early in the season, and now the OC doesn't know how to use him..Arians inherrited Larry Fitzgerald.The main point being, the Cards were light years ahead of the Rams in Arians first year, because of their franchise QB and WR Larry Fitz....We were dumpsterfire bad in 2013, which we knew in short order that year.

Yeah I think the Rams were a far superior team to Arizona in 2012. We crushed them twice, finished ahead of them in the standings, had more PPG gave up less PPG. Carson Palmer? Cards were a joke for signing him at the time. Their o-line was a mess, he was broken down etc.
End of the day, they made great moves and made it work with who they have. The Rams have made great moves but it hasnt paid off, yet

 

[GabesHorn]

@LACHAMP46 ..Snisher has built something that should last & compete to win titles,longer.

I Fully believe this is the TURNAROUND year if EVER that statement has been overused or said too soon. We have the players and just need time for these hand picked grapes to turn into a fine wine. OL's this young take more than the short no-contact OTA's and pre-season where HEALTH for the long season is the biggest key. Especially after the Nightmare rampant injuries that have hit this RAMS team year after year at levels hard to even believe. HEADS UP!!! We are so far using the same five starters we planned on having after the draft finished with what I consider young but very talented depth to be able to fall back on and create an OL to lead these RAMS into the rest of this year, and LONG into the future.

Who here expected every drafted rookie and second year player to make the Pro Bowl this season? Yes it has been painfull as we have even seen how with every game we have improved in pass blocking and the non-existant run game is just a few lanes missed by our rookie RB in his first Pro game. WE have the last rated "O" and have nowhere to go but up and we are the youngest and WILL be getting better as other teams have older vets costing so much more and play will only decrease as we get better weekly. Nick Foles as I saw the stats today has had the most drops of any QB this first 3 games.

These things will cease and we do study our opponents well and as we adjusted in the first half last week and with just the smallest help from our young and learning "O", that would have been a "W" most did not expect. The cards have a better secondary than the steelers but I'm sure we are not gonna throw up anything for grabs. The run may START to Finally see success this week and as long as we play to Win and Not lose with a very small window for error. We finally have the Leader we need behind center and we have made our own bad breaks and know we can turn those same plays around and grab success not only for this week in Phoenix but we are just starting to get this Muther rolling.

Keeping the NO INJURIES!!! play going and we are gonna start turning heads slowly. Most won't believe but once we add Gurley and his next gear and tackle breaking running. Our offense all falls in line after that starts. The play action will feed off that and with all the injuries to every other team we will start stacking up the W's. I really could care LESS what bernie and his butt hurt partners say all the while things start to solidify and adding a healthy Quick to the mix we will see more progress. Lets just stay consistent after the WIN this Sunday. We can fix what we have done wrong this year. We have the players. Just keep putting in the Work and study and Hit them right in the FACE play one. No cheap crap. Williams will have the "D" ready to make Palmer think his shoes are on fire. He won't have time for long throws and CJ is no L. Bell. ONWARD AND UPWARD!!! NO INJURIES!!!

 

[ram007]

Argument goes both ways in favor and against this regime.

Summary about Fisher: Win this year or Just Go Away

PS: I like Snead as a GM. He should stay.

 

[LesBaker]

Argument goes both ways in favor and against this regime.

Summary about Fisher: Win this year or Just Go Away

PS: I like Snead as a GM. He should stay.

Pretty much where I am at.......

 

[Krangthebrain]

As a Cardinals fan, I'm not going to deny that I'm happy to see Jeff Fisher as your head coach. I know that sentiment is pretty much consensus among Cardinals fans I know.

Les Snead looks like his drafting record is up and down; He's done a great job with DL and LBs, but very spotty with skill position and not very good on OL.

I think if the Rams fire Fisher, they should fire Snead as well. He's just as culpable, the talent is low at some key positions.

 

[BatteringRambo]

Politely disagree on our OL draft picks. Wasn't Cooper taken at like #8, it has taken him a few seasons to now start showing what he's capable of. I'm not nitpicking either. Just using him as an example. Our RT and LG have 3 real games as experience and are improving from different facets. GRob has had some premier DE's come right at him. That experience will be invaluable. I refuse to say he's even remotely a lost cause. If, they all do that cohesive bonding then watch out. I know a big if but also far too early to lay concrete judgment down. IMO.