New-look 49ers' defense aims to cause confusion

[Prime Time]

Yeah, the confusion will be with the fanbase as they wonder, WTH happened to our team?
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New-look 49ers' defense aims to cause confusion
By Matt Maiocco

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/new-look-49ers-defense-aims-cause-confusion

SANTA CLARA – Status quo is out the window for new 49ers defensive coordinator Eric Mangini.

In his first season taking over for Vic Fangio, Mangini will have a lot of new players on the field. And during the offseason program, he is putting his own stamp on the team’s 3-4 scheme.

“All D-coordinators have their style,” 49ers safety Antoine Bethea said. “Coach Mangini, his thing is we’re going to cause confusion. The opposing offense isn’t going to know what we’re going to be able to do each down. It could be bringing the pressure. It could be dropping eight into coverage. But it’s just keeping the offense on their heels. However, you want to look at it, I think it’s going to be a good deal for our defense.”

In Fangio’s four seasons in charge of the defense under coach Jim Harbaugh, the 49ers ranked in fourth, third, fifth and fifth in fewest total yards allowed. Fangio did it with a basic scheme in which mental mistakes and miscommunications were rarities.

The 49ers rarely blitzed, and the defense surrendered few big plays because everybody knew exactly what they were doing, as the team focused on a limited number of coverages.

As Bethea described it, the 49ers’ defense now features a lot of movement and many roles are gong to be interchangeable.

“Everybody has to know what everybody else is doing,” Bethea said. “It could be different people doing different jobs. It could be a linebacker dropping inside and the next play we can switch that.”

There are a lot of different individuals in those jobs now. After being let go from the 49ers’ coaching staff, Fangio ended up as Chicago Bears defensive coordinator. And the only defensive starters who remain from the 49ers’ lineup in Super Bowl XLVII are linebackers Aldon Smith, NaVorro Bowman and Ahmad Brooks.

The 49ers’ ideal is to create confusion for the opposing offense, and that should lead to more big plays for the defense. However, it is also likely to create more confusion for the 11 players on defense and result in more big plays going the wrong direction, too.

“That’s what OTAs are for -- getting in the playbook and getting out there in front of the offense and doing different things and getting in the repetition and studying,” Bethea said. “And once the season comes, the coaches can fill it out, ‘OK, we do this well; we don’t do this as well.’ “

Coach Jim Tomsula has never served as an NFL defensive coordinator. Mangini, inside linebackers coach Clancy Pendergast, outside linebackers coach Jason Tarver and secondary coach Tim Lewis have previously worked as NFL defensive coordinators.

“Eric’s doing a wonderful job in this part of it and (with) the things we’re doing out on the field and the defense that we’re learning,” Tomsula said. “But now you also talk about Jason Tarver and you talk about Tim Lewis and Clancy. You get all those guys together in there and some of it, we’re trying (to figure out) who exactly are we, you know what I mean? And looking at some different things in coverage and looking at some different patterns and stuff like that.

“That’ll all settle down once we’re in, and again, it’s not like that’s something new. You’ve seen that here. You’ve seen that everywhere you go. OTAs, you put things in, you’ve got that time to put things in and kind of see what guys do better, so there’s a lot of that going on. But all those guys, that entire coaching staff, is really some good stuff.”

Mangini has been off-limits to speak publicly since he was promoted from tight ends coach in January. Tomsula has acted as the sole voice of the coaching staff. He said he will be responsible for every game plan and every decision on both sides of the ball.

“When you want to point a finger or blame, just point them all at me, OK?” Tomsula said. “Nobody has full autonomy. We’re all in this together. And I have a comment on offense, defense, special teams, player engagement. So if it’s on the field and you don’t like it, you don’t need to, you can just come see one guy.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...nt-to-cause-confusion-on-defense-this-season/

49ers want to “cause confusion” on defense this season
Posted by Josh Alper on May 24, 2015

Getty Images

Among the many changes to the 49ers this offseason is the decision to hand the reins of the defense to coordinator Eric Mangini after they parted ways with Vic Fangio.

Fangio has been followed out the door by linebacker Patrick Willis, defensive end Justin Smith and others from last year’s defense and the holdovers will be utilized in a different fashion by Mangini. SafetyAntoine Bethea said that the defense is moving away from Fangio’s fairly straightforward approach as Mangini, whose move from tight ends coach back to defense may have confused some during the 49ers’ offseason upheaval, tries to keep offenses guessing about what the 49ers will do.

Bethea and coach Jim Tomsula both said that the team would use OTAs to see what new wrinkles work and which should be discarded when the team gets to training camp, but the end philosophical change offers more proof that 2015 is going to be about new directions for the 49ers.
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As in, “what the hell are they doing out there, how can they be this bad?”
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Trust me, the coaching staff has created plenty of confusion, but it is confusion on the 49ers part. With retirements and a change in key coaching positions, I see them as 6-10.
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So, abandoning the coach who brought them back to relevance wasn’t confusing enough?
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Diplomatic way of saying “We are not sure what we are going to do play to play, and our rookie head coach who is in over his head and got the job only because he was the whistleblower on the previous coach to ownership and the GM, has idea what he is doing.”
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Came in to say “There will be plenty of confusion, alright”… but I see just about every poster has already beaten me to that punch. The 49ers are going to be the NFC West DOOR MAT.

 

[Moostache]

The Niners are a double digit loss team waiting to happen.

 

[bluecollarram]

 

[Alan]

The Rams could use a little more of this IMO:
"Fangio did it with a basic scheme in which mental mistakes and miscommunications were rarities.

The 49ers rarely blitzed, and the defense surrendered few big plays because everybody knew exactly what they were doing, as the team focused on a limited number of coverages."

Not going to happen with GW though.

 

[snackdaddy]

The only confusion will be the niner defenders wondering who was supposed to cover that guy.

 

[bluecollarram]

 

[bluecollarram]

 

[den-the-coach]

Defensive Coordinator Eric Mangini (left) advises 49er Head Coach Jim Tomsula as linebacker coach Clancy Pendergast looks on.

 

[Memphis Ram]

The Rams could use a little more of this IMO:
"Fangio did it with a basic scheme in which mental mistakes and miscommunications were rarities.

The 49ers rarely blitzed, and the defense surrendered few big plays because everybody knew exactly what they were doing, as the team focused on a limited number of coverages."

Not going to happen with GW though.

I've read that Seattle's defense is pretty basic as well.

K.I.S.S. Keep it simply stupid and let the players play without thinking so much. Offense AND defense.

 

[CGI_Ram]

the 49ers ranked in fourth, third, fifth and fifth in fewest total yards allowed.

And... Exactly why did they change their defense, again?

No place to go, but worse.

 

[Memento]

I see a lot of confusion in their future. It won't be their opponents being confused, though.

 

[A55VA6]

5-11, 4th in NFC west. Take that to the bank.

 

[Alan]

Memphis Ram seeing the common thread:
I've read that Seattle's defense is pretty basic as well.

K.I.S.S. Keep it simply stupid and let the players play without thinking so much. Offense AND defense.

Not to mention the fact that our complicated scheme was being blamed for our D's early season woes last year. Even after we supposedly got our shit together we were still very inconsistent.

If you look at GW's history I think you'll find that his Ds were up and down and not the model of consistency that the Whiners have been known for in recent years.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

Yup, it took our defense 8 games to learn the new system, SF is going to have similar confusion issues.

Also, remember all the fancy pre-snap motions in Schotty's offense? I'm sure that hurt us with more false starts and illegal formations than it did the other teams.

 

[JUMAVA68]

I would be very surprised if the miners win more 4-5 games,this is just the beginning of their tailspin imo.

 

[jrry32]

The only confusion on the 49ers defense seems to be whether or not they want to keep playing football.

 

[jrry32]

Not to mention the fact that our complicated scheme was being blamed for our D's early season woes last year. Even after we supposedly got our crap together we were still very inconsistent.

If you look at GW's history I think you'll find that his Ds were up and down and not the model of consistency that the Whiners have been known for in recent years.

Our defense gave up an average of 17 points per game over the second half of the season. We only gave up 6 passing TDs while intercepting 10 passes. We also had 11 fumbles recovered. All in all, we forced 21 turnovers and had 26 sacks in 8 games.

In my opinion, that's not inconsistency, Alan. In fact, the Chargers and Giants were the only two teams to put up 20+ points on our defense over the final 8 games. And the Chargers barely accomplished that feat by putting up 20 points on the dot.

As far as the 49ers are concerned, Fangio was a great DC but they also had a stacked defense. It's certainly arguable that there are other DCs in the NFL that could have gotten the same sort of consistency. Look at Fangio before he got to the 49ers. His Ds were also up and down throughout his career (from 1997 to 2005, he had 0 top 10 defenses).

I've read that Seattle's defense is pretty basic as well.

K.I.S.S. Keep it simply stupid and let the players play without thinking so much. Offense AND defense.

That's been Manning's philosophy.

But on the flip side, you have the GSOT who operated a very complex offense at arguably the highest level of all time. You have the Patriots who always have had very complicated schemes. And quite a few other teams who prefer complex schemes.

As is always true in football, there are many ways to win and you need to do what's best for your team and your coaches.

As far as Seattle goes, yes, fairly basic. It got less basic under Quinn than it was under Bradley but Carroll believes in running a fairly basic scheme. Which he can do with the talent he has. And kudos to him, their FO, and their coaches for putting that talent in place and coaching them up. It works for them.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 extolling the virtues of our D:
Our defense gave up an average of 17 points per game over the second half of the season. We only gave up 6 passing TDs while intercepting 10 passes. We also had 11 fumbles recovered. All in all, we forced 21 turnovers and had 26 sacks in 8 games.

In my opinion, that's not inconsistency, Alan. In fact, the Chargers and Giants were the only two teams to put up 20+ points on our defense over the final 8 games. And the Chargers barely accomplished that feat by putting up 20 points on the dot.

As far as the 49ers are concerned, Fangio was a great DC but they also had a stacked defense. It's certainly arguable that there are other DCs in the NFL that could have gotten the same sort of consistency. Look at Fangio before he got to the 49ers. His Ds were also up and down throughout his career (from 1997 to 2005, he had 0 top 10 defenses).

Week 10 - Cardinals 31 Rams 14 and yes I know the Cards had two turnover TDs.

Those two shutouts against a couple of bottom feeders will tend to lower that points against average but I understand where you're coming from. We have a different measuring stick when it comes to the performance of a defense. You measure it by points allowed and I measure it by yards allowed. My method is the one they actually use when they rank defenses but yours has that bottom line to it that can't be ignored so I'm not claiming mine is superior. Both methods are flawed IMO. It does make it hard to have this particular conversation though. I'm also using what I see in the games and I saw some very good games and some bad games and some in between games.

Why are you picking that arbitrary span of the last 8 games? You're passing up a blowout or two when you do that. My count begins after the first 5 games which I thought was the general consensus of when our D started performing up to their potential.

Criteria aside, what's your definition of inconsistent? You can call a couple games where our D was less that stellar anomalies but I call them evidence of inconsistency. Not performing at the same level all the time is the definition of inconsistent isn't it? I didn't say the defense was bad, I said it was inconsistent and I still say that.

I didn't know that about Fangio and it's interesting but other than commenting that we should have come up with a less complicated D like Fangio used my main point wasn't about Fangio's abilities as a DC. Saying that Fangio had a history of inconsistency doesn't change the fact that GW has shown inconsistency throughout his career does it? Let's agree that they're both inconsistent.

BTW, when you said that Fangio has shown a history of inconsistency too, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you were looking at the overall ranking of his Ds. A ranking that uses yards allowed as its measuring stick. Or maybe not.

 

[jrry32]

Week 10 - Cardinals 31 Rams 14 and yes I know the Cards had two turnover TDs.

Which means the defense gave up 17 points.
(which is less than 20)

Those two shutouts against a couple of bottom feeders will tend to lower that points against average but I understand where you're coming from. We have a different measuring stick when it comes to the performance of a defense. You measure it by points allowed and I measure it by yards allowed. My method is the one they actually use when they rank defenses but yours has that bottom line to it that can't be ignored so I'm not claiming mine is superior. Both methods are flawed IMO. It does make it hard to have this particular conversation though. I'm also using what I see in the games and I saw some very good games and some bad games and some in between games.

And my "method" is what determines the outcomes of football games. So I'm not sure who "they" are but I don't agree with their outlook. Yards are irrelevant. That stat is strongly influenced by defensive strategy. What matters is how effective your strategy is. And the best measurements for effectiveness are related to the points you give up.

Why are you picking that arbitrary span of the last 8 games? You're passing up a blowout or two when you do that. My count begins after the first 5 games which I thought was the general consensus of when our D started performing up to their potential.

These are your words:

Even after we supposedly got our shit together we were still very inconsistent.

Now, I guess it's debatable when it is we "got our shit together" but I'd say most people would agree it was around the halfway point in the season. So splitting the season into the first and second half is quite rational. It eliminates cherry-picking by choosing a logical cut-off point.

But no, I don't think after the 5th game is the proper spot. The Seahawks and Chiefs did a lot of damage against our defense in 6th and 7th games. It wasn't until the 8th game that our defense started clamping down. Which is why I chose the half-way point as the cut-off. It eliminated the 8th game but I felt that would be cherry-picking to include it.

Criteria aside, what's your definition of inconsistent? You can call a couple games where our D was less that stellar anomalies but I call them evidence of inconsistency. Not performing at the same level all the time is the definition of inconsistent isn't it? I didn't say the defense was bad, I said it was inconsistent and I still say that.

6 games giving up less than 20 points out of 8 games isn't my definition of inconsistent.

This is football...a team is never going to perform at the same level all the time. You're going to have good weeks and bad weeks. A consistent team minimizes the number of bad weeks. Our defense did that over the second half of the season.

I didn't know that about Fangio and it's interesting but other than commenting that we should have come up with a less complicated D like Fangio used my main point wasn't about Fangio's abilities as a DC. Saying that Fangio had a history of inconsistency doesn't change the fact that GW has shown inconsistency throughout his career does it? Let's agree that they're both inconsistent.

My point is that the 49ers consistency isn't about the simplicity of the scheme. It's about the combination of a good defensive mind with one of the NFL's most talented defenses.

While simple schemes can be effective...so can complex schemes. A coach should do what he's comfortable doing. You don't ask a guy like Williams to run a simple scheme. It would be like asking Martz to run a simple scheme. You let them do their thing. If there's one thing former players have said again and again about Williams, it's that he schemes around his players and puts them in positions to succeed. That's the mark of a great coordinator. If he's at his best running a complex scheme then let him do that. Just like if Fangio is at his best running a simple scheme, you let him do that. You want them to be able to put guys in the best spots to succeed and they aren't going to do that as well if they compromise their schemes.

BTW, when you said that Fangio has shown a history of inconsistency too, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you were looking at the overall ranking of his Ds. A ranking that uses yards allowed as its measuring stick. Or maybe not.

Nope. I was looking at points because I feel it's a better indicator of defensive effectiveness.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I've read that Seattle's defense is pretty basic as well.

K.I.S.S. Keep it simply stupid and let the players play without thinking so much. Offense AND defense.

The Niners pretty much play a base cover 3. That is the same defense that Joe Paterno used at PSU for decades. It worked great. The key is to have quality players at every position. Not necessarily stars, but a few mixed in helps too of course. PSU had many top ten defenses over the years.

I like the KISS principle. I use it for everything I do. When I catch myself over thinking something or going to far I reel myself back in because too much is just too much usually.