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ChrisW

Stating the obvious
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I'll just quote this part and go down the list.

1. Possibly, but right now both fan bases are very unhappy. It would be like the Eagles sharing with the Cowboys, or the Rams sharing with the 49er, or Packers and Bears. Over time this may go away, but I doubt it. Even Jets and Giants fans don't like it, and they haven't had a rivalry like this one.

2. Not really true, Clippers still play second fiddle to the Lakers, despite the Lakers sucking.

3. It seems that neither side have really done anything much, the Chargers have evidently never made a real proposal, just asked them to pay for most of a new stadium.

4. Depending on who sides with who.

5. Rams and Raiders would have just as much, if not more, of a "claim" over the market, they probably have more fans honestly.


I just don't think its a great move on his part, but he may know something we don't.

It's more of a great move for STL fans. It keeps Stan from moving the team there before a vote. The option of Anti-Trust lawsuit doesn't work anymore since more than one team is now proposing the market. He can break ground on a stadium all he wants. But the Rams franchise isn't going anywhere until a vote happens.

(I realize not everyone thought he would do this. But it's not even an option anymore.)
 
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It's more of a great move for STL fans. It keeps Stan from moving the team there before a vote. The option of Anti-Trust lawsuit doesn't work anymore since more than one team is now proposing the market. He can break ground on a stadium all he wants. But the Rams franchise isn't going anywhere until a vote happens.

(I realize not everyone thought he would do this. But it's not even an option anymore.)

Why? I'm a dumbass when it comes to the law.
 

bluecoconuts

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It's more of a great move for STL fans. It keeps Stan from moving the team there before a vote. The option of Anti-Trust lawsuit doesn't work anymore since more than one team is now proposing the market. He can break ground on a stadium all he wants. But the Rams franchise isn't going anywhere until a vote happens.

(I realize not everyone thought he would do this. But it's not even an option anymore.)

I don't see how that changes antitrust stuff?
 

ChrisW

Stating the obvious
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Why? I'm a dumbass when it comes to the law.

I don't see how that changes antitrust stuff?

The way I understand it is: The anti-trust lawsuits were because the NFL didn't do enough to help the team move to the new market (In Al Davis' case.) Well I don't think Stan can claim that same outcome now that 3 teams are battling for the spot. It now puts the league back in charge for deciding who can take it.
 

bluecoconuts

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The way I understand it is: The anti-trust lawsuits were because the NFL didn't do enough to help the team move to the new market (In Al Davis' case.) Well I don't think Stan can claim that same outcome now that 3 teams are battling for the spot. It now puts the league back in charge for deciding who can take it.

I thought the anti-trust stuff was essentially the NFL can't tell an owner where he could have his team play?
 

ChrisW

Stating the obvious
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I thought the anti-trust stuff was essentially the NFL can't tell an owner where he could have his team play?

It seems that it covers a broad range of moving matters as far as the NFL is concerned. I can't really find the reason the court ruled in his favor in the 1980s. I was alluding to when he sued in the 90s for his move back to Oakland.
 

myronjax

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I must admit to being depressed earlier, as I have assumed the move was a done deal with Stan holding all the cards... but now the cards have been re-shuffled, and the winning hand not so obvious. This high stakes poker game between millionaires and billionaires is getting interesting, to say the least. If, somehow, we manage to keep the Rams here in St. Lou, do you think there's any way those PR bridges ESK has burnt ever get re-built? I cant see it myself. Good thing he stays silent, because if they do indeed stay, he'll be Persona non grata #1...he's probably that already. Anyone out there in Cali heard from Mayor Butts yet? Can't see him being silent until, was it Tuesday?, when their next announcement was supposed to come.
 

blue4

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blue4
I'll just quote this part and go down the list.

1. Possibly, but right now both fan bases are very unhappy. It would be like the Eagles sharing with the Cowboys, or the Rams sharing with the 49er, or Packers and Bears. Over time this may go away, but I doubt it. Even Jets and Giants fans don't like it, and they haven't had a rivalry like this one.

2. Not really true, Clippers still play second fiddle to the Lakers, despite the Lakers sucking.

3. It seems that neither side have really done anything much, the Chargers have evidently never made a real proposal, just asked them to pay for most of a new stadium.

4. Depending on who sides with who.

5. Rams and Raiders would have just as much, if not more, of a "claim" over the market, they probably have more fans honestly.


I just don't think its a great move on his part, but he may know something we don't.


1. Fans will get over it, I suspect. It'll go away.

2. Both teams will make loads of money.

3. Same as Stan.

4. You have to admit solving 2 teams stadium problems with solutions from in state is going to be pretty attractive for other owners.

5. If the Chargers pull 25% of season ticket sales from LA, there's no way the Rams after being absent would have more fans in LA. There is literally an entire generation of adults in LA who have no experience of the Rams. It'd be like asking a 24 yr old ST Louis resident if they like the Cardinals or remember Stump Mitchell.

I think he realizes he needs to shit or get off the pot.
 

bluecoconuts

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1. Fans will get over it, I suspect. It'll go away.

2. Both teams will make loads of money.

3. Same as Stan.

4. You have to admit solving 2 teams stadium problems with solutions from in state is going to be pretty attractive for other owners.

5. If the Chargers pull 25% of season ticket sales from LA, there's no way the Rams after being absent would have more fans in LA. There is literally an entire generation of adults in LA who have no experience of the Rams. It'd be like asking a 24 yr old ST Louis resident if they like the Cardinals or remember Stump Mitchell.

I think he realizes he needs to crap or get off the pot.

The Rams still have quite a solid fan base in LA. The comment was more about if he was so adament about the Rams not going there at all, I'm assuming not even if they both share the stadium, then why he would be okay with the Raiders, who have an even larger fan base in LA than the Rams. If he was worried about losing his fans, splitting a market with a team with the biggest showing in that market, plus nuking your old market, seems like a poor move to me.
 

RamBill

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Carson stadium project could alter Rams' outlook
By Nick Wagoner

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-ra...rson-stadium-project-could-alter-rams-outlook

INDIANAPOLIS -- The big boys have now all pulled up their seat at the table, and the NFL's version of high-stakes poker (as though the NFL would have any other type) has kicked into overdrive.

The Los Angeles Times reported Thursday night that the Oakland Raiders and San Diego Chargers have agreed to work together to build a $1.7 billion stadium in Carson, California, just outside of Los Angeles. The Chargers followed by releasing a joint statement with the Raiders on their website.

So here we are with three teams all angling to get to Los Angeles -- though if you want to be technical, the St. Louis Rams have never come out and actually said that -- with two potential stadium sites in the market and a potential stadium also being bandied about in St. Louis. What happens next is anyone's guess, and by anyone, I mean the NFL.

Though Thursday's news was probably met with some enthusiasm by Rams fans hoping the team stays in St. Louis, it's a safe bet that the folks at Park Avenue in New York were even happier.

We know the league wants to return to Los Angeles, and we know the league would like to find stadium solutions for all three teams in need of new digs. Now they could easily have multiple options in Los Angeles buoyed by a St. Louis project that has been put on the fast track.

From the NFL's perspective, the appeal of the Carson project is obvious. It would take care of two California teams by offering a California solution for both. Though they would have to move, it wouldn't require either team to move halfway across the country. It would also take care of the two teams that have been desperately seeking stadium relief for the longest amount of time.

Meanwhile, the St. Louis stadium project took another positive step Thursday with the announcement of an agreement for expedited and cheaper construction. Though Rams owner Stan Kroenke might prefer to be in Los Angeles, he's the only owner of the three that has a potential golden parachute if he's left on the outside looking in on Los Angeles.

But make no mistake, this is a parlor game that is a long way from reaching its conclusion. As in most cases, much of what happens is going to come down to money. The Chargers and Raiders haven't revealed much of what the plan for financing the stadium proposal would entail, though apparently there is going to be some sort of a split between the two teams.

In St. Louis, there is a need to get the public financing squared away, something Missouri Governor Jay Nixon said he hopes to have in place by fall. And there is the not so little matter of getting an owner -- in this case Kroenke -- to offer up about $250 million as well as the $200 million from the NFL's G4 loan.

Which brings us back to the NFL. The league is going to have to do plenty of diligence over the next few months (year?) to figure out what the best possible situation is. That means determining the best site for a Los Angeles stadium and which teams would be the best fit for the market. That runs deeper than just who is offering the quickest and easiest return to Los Angeles.

And conspiracy theorists will bring out any number of possible end games that might seem like pie in the sky, but given the twists and turns that have already taken place, just about anything is still in play.

Asked Friday about the Los Angeles rumors, Rams coach Jeff Fisher offered the pragmatic answer you would expect, but also the one that is probably best for all parties to take moving forward: wait and see.

"My focus -- and of course this is coachspeak -- is on this year and our football team in St. Louis," Fisher said. "As things come up, really on a daily basis right now, they are going to continue to change. Whatever happens, happens, but I love St. Louis. We've got a great fan base. We've got some work to do."

They're not the only ones.
 

OC--LeftCoast

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Greg
Enos will get what Enos desires, boys you better believe it.

The only question is - Just what in the "wide, wide world of sports" does he desire?

Anyone thinking this...drama is settled or anywhere near is sadly mistaken
 

blue4

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The Rams still have quite a solid fan base in LA. The comment was more about if he was so adament about the Rams not going there at all, I'm assuming not even if they both share the stadium, then why he would be okay with the Raiders, who have an even larger fan base in LA than the Rams. If he was worried about losing his fans, splitting a market with a team with the biggest showing in that market, plus nuking your old market, seems like a poor move to me.

He's only moving 121 miles down the road. 2 hrs drive time. I doubt the SD market would be nuked. As for the Raiders, a few years of 4-12 vs another playoff year will even things out. They'll both have no shortage of cash, and the value of the franchise would increase.
 

drasconis

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JA
I'll just quote this part and go down the list.

1. Possibly, but right now both fan bases are very unhappy. It would be like the Eagles sharing with the Cowboys, or the Rams sharing with the 49er, or Packers and Bears. Over time this may go away, but I doubt it. Even Jets and Giants fans don't like it, and they haven't had a rivalry like this one.

2. Not really true, Clippers still play second fiddle to the Lakers, despite the Lakers sucking.

3. It seems that neither side have really done anything much, the Chargers have evidently never made a real proposal, just asked them to pay for most of a new stadium.

4. Depending on who sides with who.

5. Rams and Raiders would have just as much, if not more, of a "claim" over the market, they probably have more fans honestly.


I just don't think its a great move on his part, but he may know something we don't.

1. realize they aren't going to be happy, but will they quit following the team(s)..doubt it...and have to figure plenty of new fans in LA will come. They won't be at/in the stadium together very often (especially if 1 goes NFC) so not like there will be that issue to deal with.

2. not a very valid comparison...recently the clippers have been better...but that is really recent. Lakers have been in playoffs 8 of last 10 years and have 2 titles (last one only in 2010), clippers have only made playoffs 4 of last 10 and have no titles. In fact it helps show how winner centric LA fans our, even with that being the last ten years, the clippers now outdraw the Lakers!

3. agree - but it would be fair to assume that 2 owners have more favors to call in than 1, especially a long timer like Spanos.

4. from a "fan" standpoint maybe....from a legal one they probably have far less: 1) leaving the market would likely be express abandonment - that is a killer legal argument and one the Rams will find nearly impossible to counter 2a) if Spanos can actually show (and his season ticket holder records would be clear on this- but have not really been disclosed) that 25% of his season ticket holders are form LA it shows actual direct commerce 2b) any ads/flyers/commercials he did in the market directly would be staking a claim that Rams can't match. This is NOT a popularity contest, it is a business law issue...polls don't matter (likely couldn't even enter them in evidence if it was in court).
 

bluecoconuts

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He's only moving 121 miles down the road. 2 hrs drive time. I doubt the SD market would be nuked. As for the Raiders, a few years of 4-12 vs another playoff year will even things out. They'll both have no shortage of cash, and the value of the franchise would increase.

Its "nuked" because its a partnership with the team they hate most. Again, LA and San Diego are not just up the road from each other, and you're not making that drive in 2 hours. Plus LA and San Diego have a very strong dislike for each other. New York and Philly are less than a hundred miles from each other too, should they be okay if they moved? Baltimore and Washington are about 30 miles apart.

Different markets are different markets.
 

blue4

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blue4
Its "nuked" because its a partnership with the team they hate most. Again, LA and San Diego are not just up the road from each other, and you're not making that drive in 2 hours. Plus LA and San Diego have a very strong dislike for each other. New York and Philly are less than a hundred miles from each other too, should they be okay if they moved? Baltimore and Washington are about 30 miles apart.

Different markets are different markets.


Apparently they don't agree.

As for the others you mentioned, if that's the way those cities could keep their team in the region then yes. They should be okay with it. Because the alternative could be worse. I'd share a stadium with the 49ers if it kept our team. The alternative is about as short sighted as you can get. It's not like they're going to occupy the same space.
 

dhaab

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I don't really see the Chargers/Raiders announcement changing anything. Kroenke is already WAY ahead(he's probably been working on it for years) of those two and has the money and power to impose his will. The other two can't say that.

Ha! Funny how we see the polar opposite on this.
 

bluecoconuts

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Apparently they don't agree.

As for the others you mentioned, if that's the way those cities could keep their team in the region then yes. They should be okay with it. Because the alternative could be worse. I'd share a stadium with the 49ers if it kept our team. The alternative is about as short sighted as you can get. It's not like they're going to occupy the same space.

Thats not really the point. I'm telling you that LA and San Diego are not pretty much the same market, they're not just right down the street from each other, they're different. If you disagree then you're wrong, that's just how it is. LA and San Francisco, LA and San Diego, they're all no more the same than New York and New Jersey, Philly and Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Washington. Drive time and milage doesn't mean anything, it's about the location. LA and Orange County are right next to each other, and they don't get along either, just like New York and New Jersey don't get along. That's the way it is.
 

Sum1

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Its "nuked" because its a partnership with the team they hate most. Again, LA and San Diego are not just up the road from each other, and you're not making that drive in 2 hours. Plus LA and San Diego have a very strong dislike for each other. New York and Philly are less than a hundred miles from each other too, should they be okay if they moved? Baltimore and Washington are about 30 miles apart.

Different markets are different markets.
This isn't directed at you per se...but it's kind of funny the picture being painted is that a move to LA for the Chargers is going to be devastating to San Diego fans (which I think it largely will, don't get me wrong) but then there are other people out there, mostly on the Post Disgrace website, that make claims that people in St. Louis aren't real fans if they won't stay loyal to the Rams if they leave. I think there are some parallels to draw there.
 
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