New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[blue4]

I do wonder what he thought I was saying about L.A. fans, which I am one of, that was so offensive.

Do I hate myself now and just don't realize it?

Probably.

I myself am starting to feel bad about joining with my good friend Stan to pilfer an NFL team.

 

[bluecoconuts]

What offer made it to easy to say no? The rough draft that Peacock presented was the last offer I can recall, and it was far from unreasonable. Other owners have had to kick in similar amounts and have had rougher times getting proposals.

The offer that they made. In my opinion it's way too late for rough drafts, if that was their intention, yes its a good start, but they're very late. A small stadium that asks him to pay 50%, doesn't have financing for the other 50%, and isn't viable for a Super Bowl isn't something he wants. I feel at minimum St Louis needs to make something that will be an option for multiple Super Bowls, otherwise it might be hard to get him to get excited.

 

[blue4]

The offer that they made. In my opinion it's way too late for rough drafts, if that was their intention, yes its a good start, but they're very late. A small stadium that asks him to pay 50%, doesn't have financing for the other 50%, and isn't viable for a Super Bowl isn't something he wants. I feel at minimum St Louis needs to make something that will be an option for multiple Super Bowls, otherwise it might be hard to get him to get excited.

There's no way "way too late" can be said about St Louis. Not with SD and Oakland still in the NFL. Multiple SBs at a MINIMUM? Why not put in a guest palace so he doesn't have to commute from his hotel to the stadium during home games. I don't mean to be overly sarcastic, but the amount he might be asked to pay and the length of time it's taken isn't even close to be considered arduous when compared to some of these other cities.

 

[RamFan503]

I think though that most involved consider the proposal a decent starting point or so it seems. I think probably the biggest hurdle right now seems to be how funding will be obtained. The price tag may be about right and changes can likely be made that wouldn't change the price tag all that much. But is even the public money that has been proposed going to be there? Is the legislature going to pass that amendment that would prohibit Nixon from just signing off on the funding? Will the property purchase go smoothly?

I don't think you can put SD and Oakland's time frame on Stan. It may seem logical but I'm not sure it is relevant. Maybe it is but I doubt it really comes that much into play when/if a decision is made.

 

[bluecoconuts]

There's no way "way too late" can be said about St Louis. Not with SD and Oakland still in the NFL. Multiple SBs at a MINIMUM? Why not put in a guest palace so he doesn't have to commute from his hotel to the stadium during home games. I don't mean to be overly sarcastic, but the amount he might be asked to pay and the length of time it's taken isn't even close to be considered arduous when compared to some of these other cities.

There's a reason why it seems every few years the Super Bowl is in the same place, because there's certain things the NFL likes, Stan knows this, the stadium in LA is all about Super Bowls, 80,000 seats? That's what it's designed for, so its obvious thats what he wants.

The situation is far different than any other city. The Raiders and Chargers aren't building a stadium in another city. What other teams do, and how long they have been working on a deal or how long it took them to get a stadium built doesn't mean much. Hollywood park is under construction, the surrounding areas are being prepped, and the city likely votes in June. If they get approved, and it seems likely, construction can start on the actual stadium this year. Once that starts, I'm not sure what St Louis can do to convince him to change his mind. The clock is ticking and ticking fast. Unless voters reject the proposal and they need to go through all the hoops which delays them a year or so, then there's more time, otherwise it's moving.

 

[drasconis]

There's a reason why it seems every few years the Super Bowl is in the same place, because there's certain things the NFL likes, Stan knows this, the stadium in LA is all about Super Bowls, 80,000 seats? That's what it's designed for, so its obvious thats what he wants..

While I agree that having a stadium that qualifies for a holding the superbowl should be a goal. The SB has repeated locations only 1 time in the last 10 years - that being AZ which is 63,400-seat stadium (expandable to 72,200 not sure what/how it expands). So pretty much the same size STL tossed out as a baseline. Based on recent history one should not assume that their stadium will hold multiple SBs, further the NFL uses that to get towns to do what they want...in this case it is reversed.

 

[bluecoconuts]

While I agree that having a stadium that qualifies for a holding the superbowl should be a goal. The SB has repeated locations only 1 time in the last 10 years - that being AZ which is 63,400-seat stadium (expandable to 72,200 not sure what/how it expands). So pretty much the same size STL tossed out as a baseline. Based on recent history one should not assume that their stadium will hold multiple SBs, further the NFL uses that to get towns to do what they want...in this case it is reversed.

There's only so many stadiums viable for them. They want something that'll have nice weather, seats, parking, etc. Stan's stadium will have that, despite New York, the NFL doesn't want cold Super Bowls, and they probably thought the NY one wasn't that great due to the game being so one-sided. There's a reason why they aren't playing them in Seattle, Green Bay, Chicago, etc. If it's a cold area, they'll want a dome.

 

[RamFan503]

There's only so many stadiums viable for them. They want something that'll have nice weather, seats, parking, etc. Stan's stadium will have that, despite New York, the NFL doesn't want cold Super Bowls, and they probably thought the NY one wasn't that great due to the game being so one-sided. There's a reason why they aren't playing them in Seattle, Green Bay, Chicago, etc. If it's a cold area, they'll want a dome.

Actually, Minnesota has already been awarded one. Granted it is indoors but it definitely is in a cold area. But yeah - there are several factors that eliminate many cities from hosting. Many said Detroit was a huge stretch due to fans not wanting to be in that kind of weather in Feb. NY was a big risk with the pending storm and it being outdoors up that far north. I don't think the weather in Seattle is that big of a concern but hotels and parking likely is.

But I do think hosting Superbowls is on the list of things Stan is going to want out of a new stadium. Does it top the list of what will be required? I don't think it should as far as the NFL is concerned. Will it be one that Stan leans on? I don't know but I would guess it is pretty high on his list.

Still, if St Louis moves quickly and shores up some of the question marks and tweaks the stadium plans with recommendations from their new consultant, it may be difficult for Stan to get the support of the NFL. Without that support, it may be doable but I'm not all that sure that it is how he wants to go about it. I really think Stan is going to want the support of his colleagues on this one.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Actually, Minnesota has already been awarded one. Granted it is indoors but it definitely is in a cold area. But yeah - there are several factors that eliminate many cities from hosting. Many said Detroit was a huge stretch due to fans not wanting to be in that kind of weather in Feb. NY was a big risk with the pending storm and it being outdoors up that far north. I don't think the weather in Seattle is that big of a concern but hotels and parking likely is.

But I do think hosting Superbowls is on the list of things Stan is going to want out of a new stadium. Does it top the list of what will be required? I don't think it should as far as the NFL is concerned. Will it be one that Stan leans on? I don't know but I would guess it is pretty high on his list.

Still, if St Louis moves quickly and shores up some of the question marks and tweaks the stadium plans with recommendations from their new consultant, it may be difficult for Stan to get the support of the NFL. Without that support, it may be doable but I'm not all that sure that it is how he wants to go about it. I really think Stan is going to want the support of his colleagues on this one.

Hence why I said they wanted a dome.

I don't think all is lost with St Louis or anything like that, I just think they need to tweak things enough so Stan likes it. From my understanding the main reason why the NFL went to NY last year was that was a condition for the stadium. Its not that its cold outside more so for the game itself. They need to fix the parking issues, but even still it may be difficult to get a Super Bowl. They could something like NY did, but if Stan wants more than one, then what?

It's somewhat frustrating when people go "it's good enough, so now Stan can't go" and want to sit on it, I feel that's what'll lose the team, so its a bit of a bummer to see. Knowing the stadium isn't enough doesn't mean it's bad, just that it needs work. Knowing that time is running out is important as well.

 

[RamFan503]

Hence why I said they wanted a dome.

I don't think all is lost with St Louis or anything like that, I just think they need to tweak things enough so Stan likes it. From my understanding the main reason why the NFL went to NY last year was that was a condition for the stadium. Its not that its cold outside more so for the game itself. They need to fix the parking issues, but even still it may be difficult to get a Super Bowl. They could something like NY did, but if Stan wants more than one, then what?

It's somewhat frustrating when people go "it's good enough, so now Stan can't go" and want to sit on it, I feel that's what'll lose the team, so its a bit of a bummer to see. Knowing the stadium isn't enough doesn't mean it's bad, just that it needs work. Knowing that time is running out is important as well.

Yeah - I get yuh. I also understand what you were saying about moving to St Louis so I realize you'd, if anything, rather they stay put.

I'm just not sure anything short of show stopping is going to get multiple Superbowls anywhere that the weather is not hospitable and I'm guessing that is what you were referring to when talking about northern climbs. Maybe in a huge metro area like NY but....

It's why I don't really think that should be a realistic expectation for Stan if St Louis does pretty much everything else in line with a top tier type stadium. I think crowd noise will be a huge factor in the design, overall fan experience, and glitz IMO can't be overlooked. Of course other factors will come in as well.

 

[blue4]

St Louis isn't exactly a cold weather city. It was 65 degrees today. On average, winters are usually not too shabby. Certainly better than NY. What will stop us from getting a SB is lack of hotels, parking and public transportation and that won't change even if we build a football wonderland.

 

[myronjax]

This may be my first post, but I've been reading this board for some time, and appreciate the sanity here.
Regarding the viewpoint of are you a fan of the Rams, or a fan of the team playing in St. Louis-for the fans of the Rams that still live in LA, you have, unfortunately, not have had another team move in to fill the void that was created when your team left. My guess is if a team had moved there within a few years, you would be fans of that team, while cherishing the memories of the Rams.When the Cardinals moved west, folks and the media here followed them for a few years, some never quit following them. None of us forgot about them. Then the Rams came to town and filled that void. We had a team again! Folks in Baltimore and Cleveland embraced their new teams also, while never forgetting about their old heroes.. We loved our football and the home team. That's what happens, and I wish LA had gotten another home team long ago to root for-it sucks being a football fan and not having a home team. You are to be commended for being stout fans for the last 20 years, and your patience will soon be rewarded (no doubt)-unfortunately for us. We'll follow the team for a few years while the players we knew are on the team, and hope we get another "home team". Sorry for the long post. Just don't like seeing the cities sparring with each other needlessly.

 

[Boffo97]

This may be my first post, but I've been reading this board for some time, and appreciate the sanity here.

Hey, I thought we stopped blocking my posts for the new members!

In all seriousness, welcome.

Honestly, even if L.A. had gotten another team, or the Raiders stayed, I don't think I would have switched my loyalty (and I'm not sure many of the other California fans would have either.) Just like I'm sure if they do move to St. Louis to L.A., London, Timbuktu or Wolf 359, there will be St. Louis area people who will still stay fans of the Rams (unless maybe if the Cardinals moved back. Maybe.)

For some fans, it's not about location. If I lived in New England, no way would I be a Patriot fan. No way.

 

[-X-]

This may be my first post, but I've been reading this board for some time, and appreciate the sanity here.
Regarding the viewpoint of are you a fan of the Rams, or a fan of the team playing in St. Louis-for the fans of the Rams that still live in LA, you have, unfortunately, not have had another team move in to fill the void that was created when your team left. My guess is if a team had moved there within a few years, you would be fans of that team, while cherishing the memories of the Rams.When the Cardinals moved west, folks and the media here followed them for a few years, some never quit following them. None of us forgot about them. Then the Rams came to town and filled that void. We had a team again! Folks in Baltimore and Cleveland embraced their new teams also, while never forgetting about their old heroes.. We loved our football and the home team. That's what happens, and I wish LA had gotten another home team long ago to root for-it sucks being a football fan and not having a home team. You are to be commended for being stout fans for the last 20 years, and your patience will soon be rewarded (no doubt)-unfortunately for us. We'll follow the team for a few years while the players we knew are on the team, and hope we get another "home team". Sorry for the long post. Just don't like seeing the cities sparring with each other needlessly.

That was, apparently, a $2Billion post. Well done!

WTF has happened to the ROD economy?

 

[Boffo97]

That was, apparently, a $2Billion post. Well done!

WTF has happened to the ROD economy?

Thanks, Obama!

 

[RamFan503]

This may be my first post, but I've been reading this board for some time, and appreciate the sanity here.
Regarding the viewpoint of are you a fan of the Rams, or a fan of the team playing in St. Louis-for the fans of the Rams that still live in LA, you have, unfortunately, not have had another team move in to fill the void that was created when your team left. My guess is if a team had moved there within a few years, you would be fans of that team, while cherishing the memories of the Rams.When the Cardinals moved west, folks and the media here followed them for a few years, some never quit following them. None of us forgot about them. Then the Rams came to town and filled that void. We had a team again! Folks in Baltimore and Cleveland embraced their new teams also, while never forgetting about their old heroes.. We loved our football and the home team. That's what happens, and I wish LA had gotten another home team long ago to root for-it sucks being a football fan and not having a home team. You are to be commended for being stout fans for the last 20 years, and your patience will soon be rewarded (no doubt)-unfortunately for us. We'll follow the team for a few years while the players we knew are on the team, and hope we get another "home team". Sorry for the long post. Just don't like seeing the cities sparring with each other needlessly.

Hey I have that shirt! And you may be right about some fans but not others. I have been a Rams fan for too many years to really follow another just because they play in LA. We try to get across that this is not a LA vs St Louis fan thing. The fans from both cities are great fans.

 

[RamFan503]

That was, apparently, a $2Billion post. Well done!

WTF has happened to the ROD economy?

The guy's first post and he's already richer than us. WTF?

 

[RamFan503]

St Louis isn't exactly a cold weather city. It was 65 degrees today. On average, winters are usually not too shabby. Certainly better than NY. What will stop us from getting a SB is lack of hotels, parking and public transportation and that won't change even if we build a football wonderland.

Interesting. Didn't know that. BTW - My wife raves about your transportation system. She hasn't been there in about ten years but when she was, she was quite impressed with it and your city.

 

[RamBill]

Dirt is turning in Inglewood; Stadium up next?
• By David Hunn

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_efd79b91-2efc-52c6-b49f-84bfacdd0512.html

INGLEWOOD, Calif. • Dump trucks and excavators are lined up at the Hollywood Park Racetrack. Dirt is piled in mounds, concrete and brick broken and stacked.

Developers have begun clearing land and laying water lines in preparation for $2.2 billion in shops, offices, houses and town homes here among the palm trees and parking lots.

Up next, perhaps? A $1.7 billion football stadium, funded by St. Louis Rams owner Stan Kroenke.

City officials here say the plan is real, with or without a National Football League team.

“If you have the most modern, the most beautiful NFL stadium in the world, you’re not going to have any problem populating it,” Inglewood Mayor James T. Butts told the Post-Dispatch on Wednesday. “If the NFL wants to migrate here, we would welcome it. But that’s not what this is about.

“This is ‘Field of Dreams’ stuff. Build it and they will come.”

Los Angeles has gone without an NFL team for 20 years. Residents have seen proposals come and go. But this one feels different, many here say.

This time, the developer has a team.

Now, Los Angelenos — notorious for their distraction-fueled ambivalence — seem to genuinely want the NFL back to stay.

Amar Singh, 35, from West Los Angeles, and his boss, Jess Rodriguez, 42, who lives downtown, both regularly drive two hours south to see the San Diego Chargers play. “I’m tired of driving to San Diego,” Rodriguez said.

They’d welcome the Rams back to their city.

Still, stadium construction is a race in Los Angeles. And it’s not clear Kroenke will win.

At least two other teams, the Chargers and the Oakland Raiders, need new stadiums and have history in Los Angeles.

And at least two other LA developers want to build stadiums. Entertainment giant AEG has all of the approvals needed to build a stadium downtown, as part of the LA Convention Center complex. And Edward P. Roski Jr., president of Majestic Realty Co., has been working for years to build in the City of Industry, about 20 miles east of downtown Los Angeles.

Both just need a team.

SPECULATION

The Rams left Los Angeles in 1994. That same year, the Raiders returned to Oakland. Los Angelenos have been hearing stadium proposals ever since.

Then, in 2013, the Rams convinced a panel of arbitrators that the Edward Jones Dome would need a major overhaul to turn it into a top-tier stadium, as required by the team’s lease. Regional leaders estimated the cost at $700 million and declared it too expensive for the public to bear.

Since the city wouldn’t renovate the Dome, the lease allowed Kroenke to go year-to-year, instead of staying through 2025.

Speculation ran widely that the Rams would leave St. Louis.

Last month, Kroenke added to it, announcing a partnership with real estate investment firm Stockbridge Capital Group in Inglewood.

Stockbridge had been sitting on a $2.2 billion plan to redevelop 238 acres at Hollywood Park, turning the old racetrack into what is now proposed to be 890,000 square feet of retail space, 780,000 square feet of office space, 2,500 residential units, a 300-room hotel and 25 acres of parks, open space and trails.

The recession, Mayor Butts said, had shelved it.

Early last year, word leaked out that Kroenke, who has often developed retail malls anchored by Walmarts, had bought from Walmart about 60 acres next to Hollywood Park. That same year, Stockbridge broke ground on the project.

And, barely a month ago, Kroenke and Stockbridge announced their intentions for Kroenke’s land: a privately financed 6,000-seat performing arts theater and an 80,000-seat NFL-spec stadium, tied to the Stockbridge development.

Details are still unclear. A project spokesman did not respond to a request for an interview.

Butts, however, talked for two hours. The project, he said, will transform Inglewood.

A ‘RESURRECTION’

Inglewood is a town of 115,000 south of downtown Los Angeles. Well-manicured neighborhoods of newer homes, BMWs and Mercedes-Benzes in driveways, are overshadowed by rows of apartment complexes, strip malls, check-cashing stores and takeout food.

It has a reputation for gang problems and bankrupt schools, and has seen some rough years.

About 15 years ago, the LA Lakers and LA Kings left a city landmark, the Fabulous Forum, taking basketball and hockey to the new Staples Center downtown.

At the same time, attendance was falling at the racetrack. Butts said that when Hollywood Park closed in 2013, it was getting barely 1,000 visitors a day, in comparison to as many as 60,000 who came to see big-name thoroughbreds in years past.

“There was our economic furnace, gone,” Butts said, sitting in his office last week.

“When I took office on Feb. 1 of 2011, we were down to our last $11 million in the bank,” he said. “We had an $18 million structural deficit. We were burning $50,000 a day more than we were taking in in revenues. By our second payroll in June, we would have been cash-flow bankrupt.”

Moreover, he said, the city hadn’t been paving streets or repairing 60-year-old water pipes.

And developers weren’t interested in Inglewood, he said.

Butts, a former Inglewood police officer who worked his way up to police chief in beachfront Santa Monica and security director for the Los Angeles airport, said the city had to “right-size.” Officials cut 140 positions, he said, put employees on a 10 percent furlough and also cut contractor pay by 10 percent.

Butts said he got a call from New York’s Madison Square Garden Co. A church had bought the Forum after the Lakers and Kings left, but it couldn’t make the deal profitable.

In 2012, the legendary New York company bought the arena, spending about $100 million in the purchase and renovations, the company said. It opened last year. The Eagles headlined, and tickets sold out.

“There were a lot of people who scoffed at that,” Butts said.

“Just like they scoff at this.”

‘PRETTY IDEAL’

Project developers gathered 22,216 signatures, Butts said, to put the stadium rezoning on the ballot. The stadium has to be added to the development plan, and, in California, an initiative petition is one way to do it.

Butts isn’t sure Inglewood residents need to vote on the project.

City attorneys think the signatures may be enough, the mayor said. They need to be validated by the Los Angeles County registrar, who has about two more weeks to check them. Then, he said, attorneys think the City Council could approve the rezoning.

The theory, Butts said, is that 22,000 signatures shows enough support in a city of 55,000 registered voters.

The council is conducting an economic impact study before it decides, he said. But he didn’t think another environmental impact study was necessary.

Several have been done in years past.

He chuckled about concerns over Los Angeles airport flight paths, which cross over the stadium site, and increased traffic on city streets.

The racetrack could bring in 60,000 on big nights. The Lakers sold out at the Forum, adding an additional 17,000, often on the same evenings.

Butts remembers dealing with that traffic when he was a patrol officer. They learned to make it work.

Ronald J. Labinski, a retired HOK architect who has designed at least 30 stadiums, said he studied the site years ago, when Raiders owner Al Davis was looking.

“The site there is pretty ideal,” he said. “It’s already flat. It’s got acres of parking. The soil conditions are good.”

Still, he warned, California has more standards than many states; it’s a tough place to build.

The more stringent hurdle might be the NFL. If Kroenke wants to move the Rams after the 2015 season, it’ll take 24 votes from the league’s 32 owners, or he’d risk a lawsuit to stop him.

The owner of the Chargers has already said he has the votes to block Kroenke.

Butts said that won’t stop the project. If they can’t get an NFL team — well, there are two big college football teams in LA too, he said.

Residents in Inglewood talk like there’s little doubt that a stadium is coming.

Some worry about the effect on their taxes. Some, about traffic.

But more think it will bring business to the mobile phone store, to Chu’s Garden Chinese, to the tax prep services.

“Everybody I talk to wants it,” said Bernard Lomax, 67, who lives on a block that backs up to the racetrack. Housing values will rise, he’s sure.

“Inglewood is moving up,” he said. “Traffic will be heavy, but we’ll find a different way in and out. It’s time to grow.”

He wants an NFL team here, he said. But the Rams?

Lomax smiled widely, idling his 1964 lime-green Cadillac convertible on a 75-degree day last week among the palm trees. “It really doesn’t matter.”

 

[BuiltRamTough]

The LA stadium is going to cost 1.7 billion? Woah. If that's true then it'll be the most expensive stadium in the world and the crown jewl of the NFL.