New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[WillasDad]

This is such a sad mess.

For 20 Years the Rams have been where they are.
Twenty. 2-0.
Maybe some of you old-timers scoff at such a number, but an entire generation has grown up supporting this team.
My 16 year old daughter will be heartbroken if they move. Seriously.
My wife won't even talk about the possibility - it makes her ill, literally.
She is a crazy devoted fan... and isn't sure she could still support them.
Why are we so passionate and emotional about it?
Because that's what happens when you are invested in a team. We spend money and go to games. We drive 3 1/2 hours to go to camp every year, usually several times. We stick up for STLs team despite being outnumbered by Chiefs fans 10-1.
We wear our swag like outcasts and take pride in it, year after sub .500 year.

My little family (wife, daughter and I ) have grown up with our Rams.
This feels personal. Every fall and winter the 3 of us come together on Sundays and share our team... our investment. It's been a costly one. Disappointing or just plain bad seasons, expensive trips and tickets and merchandise (and we're always broke lol!)

I understand that many of you LA fans went through this before. I feel for you. I can't imagine what it's like. (I guess I can...)
...but it's been 20 years.

STL may have been the "foster" home of the Rams for a while. But it's been just "home" for a while now too.

If your excited about the Rams fanbase being ripped of their team, especially if you went through it before, I'm sorry, but shame on you.

Many of the current LA Rams fans were casual fans until 99. It's the truth. Some diehards exist still, many of them post here, but let's not be revisionist historians and act like all of the LA fans were diehards who lost their team. Hell, half of the people discussing this on facebook are too young to have been LA Rams fans, but that doesn't stop them from acting like this team rightfully belongs to them.
Most of those real fans moved on along time ago .. after all, it has been 20 years.

All I'm asking is this:
Please don't act like STL fans deserve this. Don't rub it in our faces. You can't control what will happen and you have no power to influence it so just sit back, read the updates and keep your damn excitement to yourself if you want any respect.
If they go, don't expect us STL fans to be cool about it. This isn't a hobby for us. It's our team.

We're sorry about your loss twenty years ago, but two wrongs never make a right.

God this whole deal pisses me off.

If they stay, I won't rub it anyone's face or talk crap. I promise.

I think it's safe to say most of the old time Ram fans understand your frustration. 20 years is a long time.

 

[RAGRam]

I've decided that there's one condition on which I'll continue to support the Rams if they move, and that's if @kdemoff attempts to explain why St. Louis Rams fans deserve to lose their team in order to line Stan's pockets. It doesn't need to be a convincing argument, just make an attempt at it.

 

[beej]

Speaking for myself. I'm not "excited about the Rams fanbase being ripped of their team"... it must really suck for them. But I am, quite honestly, excited for myself, the LA Rams player alumni, and the huge LA Rams fanbase that's continued to support the team. It's unfortunate that this is a zero-sum game, and some people will lose out.

I was hoping for them to stay out of passion for the team.

Now, I don't really care. I just would kind of like to see what happens if they tell Kroenke, "NO!" Mostly because so many people on this board say that can never happen.

In short, I love the smell of decaying hubris.

 

[blue4]

I'd love for someone to ask Peacock straight up what he means by saying "NFL city" all the time. It would clear the air of a funk that is in the background every time they do a press conference.

I'm convinced in certain situations it makes sense. But being interviewed today on KMOX he said it again. Fight for the Rams, my dude.....not the NFL.

You don't think he is? I think he's fighting pretty hard to keep the Rams, but you gotta have a plan B. The all or nothing approach frequently gets you nothing.

 

[dbrooks25]

Found this while going through other forums:
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/policy-676977-chargers-nfl.html

-----------------------------------------------
While Policy's presentation focused solely on the Carson plans, Kroenke spent part of his session dealing with the franchise's difficulties in St. Louis.


During the presentation, a Rams official showed a slide of a suite with a fireplace containing a roaring fire. A Rams official said the fire in the fireplace is fake “just like everything in L.A.”


The official also said the Hollywood Sign was visible from the stadium on a clear day “should that ever happen.” And there was a reference to Los Angeles’ notoriously late-arriving fans. The Rams official said the stadium should have a special parking area for fans who arrive late.
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What the hell was that about????? This is strange.

 

[RamBill]

Nick Wagoner on the obstacles teams face in the relocation efforts. He talks with Anthony Stalter and Chris Duncan.

Listen to Wagoner Talk Relocation

 

[Isiah58]

Found this while going through other forums:
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/policy-676977-chargers-nfl.html

-----------------------------------------------
While Policy's presentation focused solely on the Carson plans, Kroenke spent part of his session dealing with the franchise's difficulties in St. Louis.


During the presentation, a Rams official showed a slide of a suite with a fireplace containing a roaring fire. A Rams official said the fire in the fireplace is fake “just like everything in L.A.”


The official also said the Hollywood Sign was visible from the stadium on a clear day “should that ever happen.” And there was a reference to Los Angeles’ notoriously late-arriving fans. The Rams official said the stadium should have a special parking area for fans who arrive late.
------------------------------------------------------
What the hell was that about????? This is strange.

Scott Reid has written several pieces for the OC Register recently that included comments like "Carson is in the lead" and "Carson is the preferred site," and he may be correct about those things. However, he seems to be getting his information from someone in the Chargers camp (Policy?). First, since Kroenke and Demoff were pitching the LA proposal and the only Rams representatives in the room, why does he refer to the speaker as "a Rams official?" Does Reid not know who Demoff and/or Kroenke are? Or does he not know who made the comment? Second, the comments trashing Los Angeles seem misplaced and absurd given the topic and the audience.

We have heard reports that Stan made an impassioned presentation as to why the Rams should be the team in LA. I find it hard to believe that during his advocacy he took a little time to denigrate the very market he is hoping to acquire.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Good for you.

I like you Stranger. You're a good dude.

That said, I'm out of this thread again for awhile. Too many people that I like are hoping for something that is horrible. I might be able to get past that but right now it pisses me off.

That's the ultimate problem with all this. Every side wants their outcome and regardless if what happens the other side gets hurt. Either the Rams leave and St Louis fans have their team taken away, or they stay and LA fans, who feel like they're so close to getting them back, have to go through the feeling all over again.

Either way its going to hurt some people.

 

[RamBill]

Dave Peacock joins the Fast Lane to talk about the NFL Owners Meetings

Listen to Peacock Interview

 

[bluecoconuts]

Found this while going through other forums:
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/policy-676977-chargers-nfl.html

-----------------------------------------------
While Policy's presentation focused solely on the Carson plans, Kroenke spent part of his session dealing with the franchise's difficulties in St. Louis.


During the presentation, a Rams official showed a slide of a suite with a fireplace containing a roaring fire. A Rams official said the fire in the fireplace is fake “just like everything in L.A.”


The official also said the Hollywood Sign was visible from the stadium on a clear day “should that ever happen.” And there was a reference to Los Angeles’ notoriously late-arriving fans. The Rams official said the stadium should have a special parking area for fans who arrive late.
------------------------------------------------------
What the hell was that about????? This is strange.

I'm not seeing that written anywhere else, so he could be wrong. I mean there were only two Rams officials there, right? Kroenke and Demoff, and it would make no sense for them to throw jabs in there if they're trying to talk about how they should move. Looking at that and the rest of the article, it seems the guy is probably mistaken. If its reported elsewhere then we'll see.

 

[RamFan503]

All I'm asking is this:
Please don't act like STL fans deserve this. Don't rub it in our faces. You can't control what will happen and you have no power to influence it so just sit back, read the updates and keep your damn excitement to yourself if you want any respect.
If they go, don't expect us STL fans to be cool about it. This isn't a hobby for us. It's our team.

I like your entire post but this part again is a straw man. I haven't seen anyone here acting like the fans in the Lou deserve this or are lying in wait to rub it in anyone's faces if they move. It will suck big time if the Rams move. I get that and I am with you on that. I think most of the old timers or LA fans that are HERE would agree and that it is not really about the St Louis fan base.

Sure many Rams fans from the LA area would love to have the Rams back. It makes sense and I don't know how anyone can really blame them no matter where the Rams have played for 20 years. I don't think it is really appropriate to act like they shouldn't be here participating in this discussion. We are all Rams fans and this site was never about being forum exclusively for Rams fans from St Louis.

I fully expect St Louis fans to dislike fans wanting the Rams to move back to LA. How could they not? But the LA fans are going to be here and those fans also need to respect the fact that this is a forum for all Rams fans and the team resides in St Louis. We try to jump on any member that attacks either fan base. But I'm not really interested in telling people not to say they want them to come back to LA.

 

[RamFan503]

I was hoping for them to stay out of passion for the team.

Now, I don't really care. I just would kind of like to see what happens if they tell Kroenke, "NO!" Mostly because so many people on this board say that can never happen.

In short, I love the smell of decaying hubris.

 

[MrMotes]

I'm not seeing that written anywhere else, so he could be wrong. I mean there were only two Rams officials there, right? Kroenke and Demoff, and it would make no sense for them to throw jabs in there if they're trying to talk about how they should move. Looking at that and the rest of the article, it seems the guy is probably mistaken. If its reported elsewhere then we'll see.

Unless they were trying to be funny with a little self-deprecating humor...

 

[RamBill]

David Hunn: No Clarity on Rams’ Future After NFL Owners Meetings

St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter David Hunn for the past several months has been covering all the developments surrounding the downtown stadium project and the future of the Rams. Hunn, who was in Chicago for this week’s NFL owners meetings, joined The Hollywood Casino Press Box on Thursday to discuss what he saw and heard. (17:00)

Listen to Hunn Talk Stadiums/Relocation


From the Interview:

Initial thoughts on this week's owners meetings?

"I think that...it seems like everybody's progressing. If the game is to wait and see who falters, I don't think anyone's faltered yet. Let's say the St. Louis plan keeps moving along and Inglewood keeps progressing...and Carson thinks they've caught up. And even the city of San Diego has presented a plan now. So this still doesn't give us any clarity on what's going to happen."

On the Rams' statement after their Inglewood presentation:

"(Rams COO) Kevin Demoff is a polite guy and I appreciate he came out to talk to the reporters who obviously were hungry for St. Louis news. That said...he didn't say anything. It was a lot of dodging questions or not quite answering or simply refusing to answer them."

 

[MrMotes]

In short, I love the smell of decaying hubris.

I think you'll get a pretty good whiff no matter how this plays out...

 

[RamFan503]

Found this while going through other forums:
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/policy-676977-chargers-nfl.html

-----------------------------------------------
While Policy's presentation focused solely on the Carson plans, Kroenke spent part of his session dealing with the franchise's difficulties in St. Louis.


During the presentation, a Rams official showed a slide of a suite with a fireplace containing a roaring fire. A Rams official said the fire in the fireplace is fake “just like everything in L.A.”


The official also said the Hollywood Sign was visible from the stadium on a clear day “should that ever happen.” And there was a reference to Los Angeles’ notoriously late-arriving fans. The Rams official said the stadium should have a special parking area for fans who arrive late.
------------------------------------------------------
What the hell was that about????? This is strange.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that no Rams official said anything of the sort. Not sure what the writer's bent is but maybe being that the guy writes for an Orange County rag has something to do with it. Orange County residents often try to distinguish themselves from LA County residents. But this seems childish on his part.

 

[Moostache]

http://www.leg.state.mn.us/webcontent/lrl/issues/FootballStadium/NFLFranchiseRelocationRules.pdf

Everything that is quoted below was taken from the link, which actually is a much longer document regarding NFL franchise relocations.
This quoted section follows from this statement in Section A. :

The notice must be accompanied by a “statement of reasons” in support of the proposed transfer. The statement must address each of the factors outlined in Part C below, and may also identify and discuss any other relevant business factors that the club believes support its request to move. The Statement must also include all of the material noted in Appendix One.

C. Factors That May Be Considered In Evaluating The Proposed Transfer
The League has analyzed many factors in making prior business judgments concerning proposed franchise relocations. Such business judgments may be informed through consideration of the factors listed below, as well as other appropriate factors that are considered relevant by the Commissioner or the membership.

1 Any club proposing to transfer should, in its submission to the Commissioner, present the club’s position as to the bearing of these factors on its proposed transfer, stating specifically why such a move would be justified with reference to these considerations. In reporting to the membership, the Commissioner will also address these factors. In considering a proposed relocation, the Member Clubs are making a business judgment concerning how best to advance their collective interests. Guidelines and factors such as those identified below are useful ways to organize data and to inform that business judgment. They are intended to assist the clubs in making a decision based on their judgment and experience, and taking into account those factors deemed relevant to and appropriate with regard to each proposed move.

Those factors include:
1 Most of the factors were contained in a bill reported by a Senate committee in 1984; they essentially restate matters that the League has considered important in connection with team location decisions in the past. Certain factors included in the Senate bill have been modified, and certain new factors have been added, to reflect changed circumstances and the League’s historical experience since 1984.

These factors are also contained in a “Statement of Principles” relating to franchise location developed by the League in consultation with the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

Page D4 Volume I, Administrative/Business Operations – General Administration/Policies 09/09

1. The extent to which the club has satisfied, particularly in the last four years, its principal obligation of effectively representing the NFL and serving the fans in its current community; whether the club has previously relocated and the circumstances of such prior relocation;

2. The extent to which fan loyalty to and support for the club has been demonstrated during the team's tenure in the current community;

3. The adequacy of the stadium in which the club played its home games in the previous season; the willingness of the stadium authority or the community to remedy any deficiencies in or to replace such facility, including whether there are legislative or referenda proposals pending to address these issues; and the characteristics of the stadium in the proposed new community;

4. The extent to which the club, directly or indirectly, received public financial support by means of any publicly financed playing facility, special tax treatment, or any other form of public financial support and the views of the stadium authority (if public) in the current community;

5. The club’s financial performance, particularly whether the club has incurred net operating losses (on an accrual basis of accounting), exclusive of depreciation and amortization, sufficient to threaten the continued financial viability of the club, as well as the club’s financial prospects in its current community;

6. The degree to which the club has engaged in good faith negotiations (and enlisted the League office to assist in such negotiations) with appropriate persons concerning terms and conditions under which the club would remain in its current home territory and afforded that community a reasonable amount of time to address pertinent proposals;

7. The degree to which the owners or managers of the club have contributed to circumstances which might demonstrate the need for such relocation;

8. Whether any other member club of the League is located in the community in which the club is currently located;

9. Whether the club proposes to relocate to a community or region in which no other member club of the League is located; and the demographics of the community to which the team proposes to move;

10. The degree to which the interests reflected in the League’s collectively negotiated contracts and obligations (e.g., labor agreements, broadcast agreements) might be advanced or adversely affected by the proposed relocation, either standing alone or considered on a cumulative basis with other completed or proposed relocations;

11. The effect of the proposed relocation on NFL scheduling patterns, travel requirements, divisional alignments, traditional rivalries, and fan and public perceptions of the NFL and its member clubs;

12. Whether the proposed relocation, for example, from a larger to a smaller television market, would adversely affect a current or anticipated League revenue or expense stream (for example, network television) and, if so, the extent to which the club proposing to transfer is prepared to remedy that adverse effect.

My take as regards these guidelines:

1) I know that most people firmly believe the NFL will cast these guidelines aside and do whatever THEY want...to which I agree to an extent. The LEAGUE may decide to put aside some of these provisions, or turn a blind eye to them...but they will NOT do it because big bad Enos and his wallet say to do so. IF the NFL decides to piss on the fans of St. Louis and use any of these guidelines as a cudgel to beat them up with, then we will all know that the league is full of shit, maybe more so than I am willing to go with yet. I hear Goddell talking about "responsibilities of the clubs in their current markets" and I can't help but believe he is laying the groundwork for why the league MAY say 'no' to the Rams moving.

Look at this through the prism of Roger Goddell for a minute. He has pushed on with this Deflategate thing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past the point most sane people believed he would - pissing off Kraft, dumping on a marquee player in the league in Brady and upholding the suspension for a flimsy offense in the name of "the integrity of the game" and because an archaic rule about air pressure may or may not have been manipulated or violated due to storage of the balls or intentional deflations. He is showing an almost "Les Miserables" devotion to upholding the law....a modern day Jean Valjean hunting Javert. Since he still has a recommendation and some influence on the ultimate outcome, I do not see him being so hard on Brady and the air pressure and then turning a blind eye to the upholding of the leagues relocation guidelines. He is not going to support a fast and easy reading or interpretation of the rules.

2) As regards Section C, subheading 4...The Rams received a TON of public money when they came to St. Louis (an essentially "free" stadium, tax abatements, a sweetheart lease and the poison pill "top tier" clause that allowed them to even be in this position). There is ZERO way to say that the lease was "breached". The terms of the LEASE were to maintain a top tier stadium or got o arbitration to judge what would be top tier, THEN if the CVC did not make the updates, the remaining years of the lease would be void and the Rams commitment would be annual and the CVC commitment to the facility for the Rams would likewise be annual. That is execution of the clauses in the contract, NOT "BREACH". Does it legally give the Rams the right to seek a new home, without the CVC....damn right it gives them the right to LOOK. The right to move though is no where in the existing lease, that right is granted by the NFL. I get massively sick of reading people state the city of St. Louis "breached" the contract. The parties have followed the provisions of the lease to a tee, so stop calling it a "breach" already....arrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhh! (Sorry, had to vent my inner Charlie Brown there...)

3) As regards Section C, subheading 5...has anyone seen or heard of the Rams claiming to be losing money IN ST. LOUIS? (The opportunity to self-enrich is NOT part of these guidelines...in fact, they state: "Article 4.3 also reflects the League’s collective judgment that unassigned franchise opportunities (including “second franchise” opportunities in the home territory of a member club) are owned by the League’s members as a collective whole and, by definition, that no club has rights to more than a single “home territory.”) This is laughable to believe that a "business genius" like Enos Stanley has the sweetest lease agreement in the league (still) AND gets $226M a year in shared revenue AND has a salary cap that protects him from higher revenue teams....but he still LOSES money in St. Louis? That is either a) a lie or b) a damned lie or c) statistics. The Rams are NOT losing money.

4) As regards Section C, subheading 6....good faith? "Give me everything in my now voided lease or I am leaving" is not a negotiation. The fact that Silent Enos refuses to publicly address the St. Louis market AT ALL is simply not "good faith". The opportunity to make things right is NOT limited to the initial lease agreement. Do not think for one minute that Carmen Policy and the Carson group won't be hammering away at this point. They have collectively been trying to get new stadiums for 35 years. The Raiders franchise was supposed to have a football only stadium 20 years ago, the Chargers have been trying for 15 years to replace Qualcomm. The Rams are on year one of a year-by-year lease agreement. 35 years or 1 year.

5) As regards Section C, subheading 7....contributed to the state of the franchise? Well, Enos Stanley and lapdog can TRY to claim that they had nothing to do with the worst 5-year stretch in league history, but Enos was a minority owner and he was clearly not disturbed enough to sell, so that makes him at minimum partially culpable for the disaster that was much of the last decade. And even if he wants top claim that was not all his fault, the fact is since he bought the team they still have a losing record, they still have not sniffed the playoffs and they still are his responsibility. His product is supposed to be entertainment. The on-field freak show of futility that was 15-65 was horrific. Add to the on-field ugliness the off-field antics and tactics that clearly antagonize his current home market and poison the good will of the community and that he STILL has an offer to fund a huge chunk of a new local building and there is no way to reasonably conclude that he meets even part of this guideline!

Now, if someone really wants to believe that none of this matters, that the only thing that matters in this final decision is the bank account and net worth of Enos Stanley Kroenke and his coldhearted machinations to rip the Rams out of the very soil HE was instrumental in transplanting them 20 years ago, then so be it. You worship the dollar and probably fit in real well in today's society. I will hold out hope that the real decision makers have foresight, integrity, and a sense of history that informs them of how seemingly impregnable empires fall (they rot from within first). The NFL has guidelines. I have listed the most easily available information on the rule for relocation. There is always this nugget too:

Article 4.3 also confirms that no club has an “entitlement” to relocate simply because it perceives an opportunity for enhanced club revenues in another location. Indeed, League traditions disfavor relocations if a club has been well-supported and financially successful and is expected to remain so. Relocation pursuant to Article 4.3 may be available, however, if a club's viability in its home territory is threatened by circumstances that cannot be remedied by diligent efforts of the club working, as appropriate, in conjunction with the League Office, or if compelling League interests warrant a franchise relocation.

For those who see the Rams as the only solution to the LA situation, I would imagine they are heartened by that last bit. If nothing else, the NFL had best wake up. They are riding high and feeling mighty on TV ratings, gambling revenue (which is the REAL driver of the NFL's popularity...it is simply a fun sport to gamble on and one that people really believe is "predictable" and gives them a chance to win) and fantasy football addicts (this is really an off-shoot of the gamblers these days); however, these kind of fan-torturing greed fests that are currently grinding up 3 fan bases in Oakland, San Diego and St. Louis are exactly the kind of "rot from within" that topples even the mightiest organizations.

 

[blue4]

This is such a sad mess.

For 20 Years the Rams have been where they are.
Twenty. 2-0.
Maybe some of you old-timers scoff at such a number, but an entire generation has grown up supporting this team.
My 16 year old daughter will be heartbroken if they move. Seriously.
My wife won't even talk about the possibility - it makes her ill, literally.
She is a crazy devoted fan... and isn't sure she could still support them.
Why are we so passionate and emotional about it?
Because that's what happens when you are invested in a team. We spend money and go to games. We drive 3 1/2 hours to go to camp every year, usually several times. We stick up for STLs team despite being outnumbered by Chiefs fans 10-1.
We wear our swag like outcasts and take pride in it, year after sub .500 year.

My little family (wife, daughter and I ) have grown up with our Rams.
This feels personal. Every fall and winter the 3 of us come together on Sundays and share our team... our investment. It's been a costly one. Disappointing or just plain bad seasons, expensive trips and tickets and merchandise (and we're always broke lol!)

I understand that many of you LA fans went through this before. I feel for you. I can't imagine what it's like. (I guess I can...)
...but it's been 20 years.

STL may have been the "foster" home of the Rams for a while. But it's been just "home" for a while now too.

If your excited about the Rams fanbase being ripped of their team, especially if you went through it before, I'm sorry, but shame on you.

Many of the current LA Rams fans were casual fans until 99. It's the truth. Some diehards exist still, many of them post here, but let's not be revisionist historians and act like all of the LA fans were diehards who lost their team. Hell, half of the people discussing this on facebook are too young to have been LA Rams fans, but that doesn't stop them from acting like this team rightfully belongs to them.
Most of those real fans moved on along time ago .. after all, it has been 20 years.

All I'm asking is this:
Please don't act like STL fans deserve this. Don't rub it in our faces. You can't control what will happen and you have no power to influence it so just sit back, read the updates and keep your damn excitement to yourself if you want any respect.
If they go, don't expect us STL fans to be cool about it. This isn't a hobby for us. It's our team.

We're sorry about your loss twenty years ago, but two wrongs never make a right.

God this whole deal pisses me off.

If they stay, I won't rub it anyone's face or talk crap. I promise.

It is tough to stay in the conversation sometimes. People equate the two sides, but it's really not the same. Hoping to get something and then not getting it is very different from losing something you already have. It's tough to get past. It's one thing to hear it on something like Facebook, but it's quite another to hear someone that you've talked with (albeit on the internet) on a daily basis actively hoping that disaster strikes for you. It's very personal, but I'd just use the ignore feature before I would stop coming here. It's not like it has to be a permanent ignore.

 

[blue4]

these kind of fan-torturing greed fests that are currently grinding up 3 fan bases in Oakland, San Diego and St. Louis are exactly the kind of "rot from within" that topples even the mightiest organizations

Yep.

 

[RAMSinLA]

I like your entire post but this part again is a straw man. I haven't seen anyone here acting like the fans in the Lou deserve this or are lying in wait to rub it in anyone's faces if they move. It will suck big time if the Rams move. I get that and I am with you on that. I think most of the old timers or LA fans that are HERE would agree and that it is not really about the St Louis fan base.

Sure many Rams fans from the LA area would love to have the Rams back. It makes sense and I don't know how anyone can really blame them no matter where the Rams have played for 20 years. I don't think it is really appropriate to act like they shouldn't be here participating in this discussion. We are all Rams fans and this site was never about being forum exclusively for Rams fans from St Louis.

I fully expect St Louis fans to dislike fans wanting the Rams to move back to LA. How could they not? But the LA fans are going to be here and those fans also need to respect the fact that this is a forum for all Rams fans and the team resides in St Louis. We try to jump on any member that attacks either fan base. But I'm not really interested in telling people not to say they want them to come back to LA.

Yeah no fan deserves to have their team pack up and leave...It sucks and should not happen ever but it does and it has. I will feel like crap for you STL fans if they move because I know what it feels like. I didn't watch a Rams game for three years after they left LA, in fact I didn't watch a single NFL game let alone the Rams. However I did start to watch them again and that was before the GSOT. I watched them lose in STL and somehow remained a fan. When they won the SB I figured they were in STL for good and so I swallowed the bad taste in my mouth and became a St Louis Rams Fan. You all should see my man cave...one would think I were born in STL. It's a sad thing to lose your team and if it were not for the fact that I would be close enough to go to a game in LA (I live near San Simeon CA) I would be fine with them staying in STL. It's not cemented yet so don't let it get you all down too much. I've posted on many a board and you guys are the best. I would hate it if this board were to lose the STL fans because of a move. Hang in there.