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Rmfnlt

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Actually - it's not a fact. You are not the only one who has studied business models. And in a great many scenarios, having reported wealth allows the person to leverage that reported wealth without selling that property.

So if you really want to insist on this line of reasoning, I call BS. It is actually more unusual for people at Kroenke's level or even much lower levels to buy and sell as a means to build fortunes. Rather, they leverage what they own as it continues to grow in appraised value toward buying more properties or investments. An asset value is not only realized when it is sold. That would go against virtually every investment rule. In fact, most investors would only sell an asset if it is either trading well above their perceived value or if they see its future value declining.

So in a case like Kroenke, if he has a net worth of several billion based on assets, that allows him to buy other money cheaper, attract other investors when partnering up, look better to leagues or investment groups when wanting to buy into their markets, etc... He certainly doesn't need to sell assets to do that. In fact, selling assets would be looked at as a sign of weakness in many cases.

Now if you want to argue that building the Inglewood Stadium would be a bad investment because of cash flow, there is something to be said there. If the cash flow is not actually demonstrating a decent ROI then that alone will devalue his investment. The problem is that I don't think anyone knows what his research shows as an ROI. But I'm going to guess that he has already modeled that and has looked at scenarios ranging from best to worst.

I will admit that when I look at it, I have a hard time seeing a good ROI. But I have mentioned before that I have been involved in some pretty decent sized projects that I couldn't see the ROI - yet they made money for their owners. My guess is that if there isn't a good ROI on Inglewood then it is a very elaborate leverage ploy. And that is something I have never discounted as a real possibility.

BTW - the comment that Kroenke has a Masters in business shouldn't really be dismissed because you meant to only include those posting on ROD. The point should have been obvious that Kroenke is pretty well educated and it is a pretty safe assumption that he knows what he is doing based on his education and business history.
Good point (about leveraging assets) and we are in agreement (I think) ... always make other's money work for you. ;)

The downside, though, is that by leveraging, you are committing to debt service. The equation remains the same:
Assets - liabilites = net worth

Let's take my house... let's say it's worth $250k (it isn't) and I have a $150k mortgage on it. That's $100k in net worth. Again, I don't realize $100k until (or unless) I sell my house. Using leverage, I take out a $50k home equity line of credit to make investments. The HELOC interest rate is 5%. Obviously, I have to make more than 5% to effectively leverage. If, for some reason, I cannot maintain that return, I am in a losing situation. It can - and does - happen every day in business. I know you know this... just babbling.

So, what do I have? Net worth of $50k with debt service of $200k. If we only are looking at net worth, maybe $50k looks good. What is not revealed in the Kronke world is the $200 debt service. Pretty important ommission IMHO.

As far as the Kroenke Master's response... I started it so I apologize... wish we didn't have so much sarcasm at times. ;)
 

RamBill

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Bernie: If Kroenke builds it, will LA come?
• By Bernie Miklasz

Article deleted as it is just fan bating. If you want to read it, go to the PD. I would suggest however not citing Bernie on this as some sort of talking point here. Sorry if this offends some Bernie fans but to me he is being a bitter little troll.
 
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RamFan503

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Sorry if I deleted one of your posts in response to the Bernie article. I would like to move on past this little section of comparing LA and St Louis fan bases. I was not trying to censor anyone so much as get us past a subject we have long established does not belong on this board.

Again, sorry if I offended or some think I overstepped.
 

Rmfnlt

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Bernie: If Kroenke builds it, will LA come?
• By Bernie Miklasz

Article deleted as it is just fan bating. If you want to read it, go to the PD. I would suggest however not citing Bernie on this as some sort of talking point here. Sorry if this offends some Bernie fans but to me he is being a bitter little troll.
It was just Bernie being Bernie.

The sarcasm aside (seems there's a lot of that when it comes to this subject ;)), there were a lot of facts embedded in there.... FWIW.
 

RamFan503

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It was just Bernie being Bernie.

The sarcasm aside (seems there's a lot of that when it comes to this subject ;)), there were a lot of facts embedded in there.... FWIW.
I figured if anyone wants to read it they know where to find him. BTW - those facts have already been posted and I'm guessing there would have been several pages arguing context and details of those facts. And it would have all been to rationalize or defend or compare a fan base.
 

Rmfnlt

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I figured if anyone wants to read it they know where to find him. BTW - those facts have already been posted and I'm guessing there would have been several pages arguing context and details of those facts. And it would have all been to rationalize or defend or compare a fan base.
Yup... you are right on that!
 

The Ripper

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The facts aren't the problem with the story it's more the comparison. Actual clicks for attendance in the 1980's and in the mid 1990's it switched to tickets sold. That's one of the reason's it doesn't make sense to discuss attendance plus the back and forth
 
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RamFan503

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The facts aren't the problem with the story it's more the comparison. Actual clicks for attendance in the 1980's and in the mid 1990's it switched to tickets sold. That's one of the reason's it doesn't make sense to discuss attendance plus the back and forth
Gotta say Ripper. This is specifically the kind of trail I'm not keen on. All it's bound to do is start arguments on attendance in the two cities which will inevitably lead to fan war 2015 part 1000.

Hard to say where to draw the line but personally, I'd like to discuss things that may actually factor in to a decision without bringing the fan bases into the fold. No matter how you slice it, neither city had/has bad fans.
 

snackdaddy

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Gotta say Ripper. This is specifically the kind of trail I'm not keen on. All it's bound to do is start arguments on attendance in the two cities which will inevitably lead to fan war 2015 part 1000.

Hard to say where to draw the line but personally, I'd like to discuss things that may actually factor in to a decision without bringing the fan bases into the fold. No matter how you slice it, neither city had/has bad fans.

True that. Both cities have good fans. I don't think its fair to compare attendance from 30 years ago to today's NFL. Bernie's article comes from a skewed viewpoint. Many factors he failed to mention when dumping on LA fans. Just like when people dump on St. Louis fans. The Rams haven't exactly given them a good reason to attend games lately. Similar to LA. But plenty of St. Louis fans still support the team. Even better than they did the Cardinals. Kroenke will have a hard time convincing people if he uses attendance as a major reason to move.

During the Coliseum days the Rams attendance was well above league averages numerous times. Even when they move to Anaheim, up until 1991 the Rams attendance was pretty close to league average. Then it really dipped. But there were many factors for that. Including accusations of Georgia intentionally fielding a sub par team a la the fictional female owner in the movie Major League. Didn't help they played losing football in a baseball stadium.

I don't have a crystal ball. Its going to be a totally different animal if the Rams play in a state of the art stadium with a competitive team. In an area that is supposed to have the utmost entertainment experience along with the stadium. I can see why Kroenke gets dollar signs in his eyes when it comes to that venue. But can he make that move? Thats the multi billion dollar question we won't have answered till after the season. Fortunately, we have a top notch defense to divert our attention when they start playing.
 

OldSchool

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What do we know now that we didn't know 10,000+ posts ago???
I found out in this thread that Kroenke bought 140k acres in Colorado and Montana and it has a lake in that vast area that he doesn't let people fish on. It seems he's a grain farmer and cattle rancher in addition to his real estate and sports businesses.

Side note I also found out this morning that you can get cookie dough Klondike bars.
 

The Ripper

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Gotta say Ripper. This is specifically the kind of trail I'm not keen on. All it's bound to do is start arguments on attendance in the two cities which will inevitably lead to fan war 2015 part 1000.

Hard to say where to draw the line but personally, I'd like to discuss things that may actually factor in to a decision without bringing the fan bases into the fold. No matter how you slice it, neither city had/has bad fans.

I was going after that comparing attendance doesn't make sense for more just the back and forth.
 

VegasRam

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Gotta say Ripper. This is specifically the kind of trail I'm not keen on. All it's bound to do is start arguments on attendance in the two cities which will inevitably lead to fan war 2015 part 1000.

Hard to say where to draw the line but personally, I'd like to discuss things that may actually factor in to a decision without bringing the fan bases into the fold. No matter how you slice it, neither city had/has bad fans.

If you'd go back to your previous avatar, everybody'd calm down.
 

dhaab

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Going back and forth over whether or not people in LA have more to do or are apathetic, is highly anecdotal in nature and does nothing but pit one fan base against the other. And if as you say, someone posted a similar article about St Louis fans, I would be saying the same thing in reverse.

You can find apathy toward any sport in any city. All you have to do is look. If however, anyone wants to continue with going after EITHER fan base, they will find themselves on the outside looking in.

I completely understand why you feel this way. I was one of the people on here who posted a picture of a bunch of empty seats in Dodger Stadium and made the point that in a city that big, there are literally tons of different things to do, so it says something that they have issues selling tickets even for a great team like the Dodgers. I wasn't trying to rip on the LA fans (even though I admittedly should have written the post better), but was simply trying to point out why some folks don't think that the LA area necessarily needs or wants yet another sports franchise. Especially when it may mean that one is taken away from an area which already has very few sports franchises.
 

DenverRam

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FAN WAR!!!!!!

Get the pitch fork brick!

Brick_fd3e20_732634.gif
 
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