New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[bubbaramfan]

It never ceases to amaze me how the media constantly gets things wrong. I live in Carson, and I know things about the proposed Carson stadium site first hand (I live 4 blocks from it), and the Stub Hub Center. I worked there for over a year during construction. (backhoe-excavator, D-8 dozer operator). That 27,000 seating is for SOCCER. For football, because the field is narrower and shorter, They can add temporoary grandstands and field seating adding up to 41,000. they did this with a Chargers pre-season game and high school football playoff games.
Just saying they got the seating total wrong. don't know if they can live with 40,000 capacity for 2 years. Its a nicer place than the rose bowl or colesium.

Does Clayton even know (or the rest of the media for that matter), that the remediation of the Carson site is far from done? There are several issues that have yet to be addressed. Methane wells and vents still need to be installed. The EPA is still figuring out how to approach the problem of buried 55 gallon drums (over 50,000 of them) leaking toxic sludge to the surface. They can't install the pilings to bedrock (40-50 feet deep), until they solve that problem. Those are just the bigger problems, there are others the Calif. State Board of Heath is concerned with. The cancer rate of the surrounding neighborhoods is 500 times higher than the national rate. the ground water has an unacceptable contamination rate, plus a lot of other little stuff.

It boggles the mind that none of this has ever been fully discussed by the media. They keep making it like they can just start building a stadium there whenever they want, and that's far from the truth. Its possible, but it will take a lot of time and money. Its why that site has been vacant for over 30 years.

I'm still waiting for the media to give us the Calif. State Board of Health and EPA's take on the site. Pretty clear to all of us here in Carson why they haven't. Both those agencies are not going to give their approval for constuction until thier concerns are dealt with, and it may be years and millions before its all said and done.

 

[snackdaddy]

"horribly mishandled"?? What could he possibly be talking about? sounds a bit over the top to me.

Hmm, I wonder if that executive would be a member of the Chargers?

 

[tonyl711]

Going to LA won't make a weak team strong. The Chargers and the Raiders both will have substantial debt service that will take away from their earnings. The NFL wants LA to be a success and they need a team that has the resources to "get it right in LA".

The NFL insiders prior to this year said that the NFL didn't want the Raiders in LA because they wanted Mark Davis out of the league. The other factor is that the NFL didn't want 2 stadiums in the Bay Area or in any other market and they wanted the Raiders to play in Levi.

so bringing the Rams to LA automatically doubles the value of the Rams, but not the Chargers and Raiders? come on now.

 

[The Ripper]

Going to LA won't make a weak team strong. The Chargers and the Raiders both will have substantial debt service that will take away from their earnings. The NFL wants LA to be a success and they need a team that has the resources to "get it right in LA".

The NFL insiders prior to this year said that the NFL didn't want the Raiders in LA because they wanted Mark Davis out of the league. The other factor is that the NFL didn't want 2 stadiums in the Bay Area or in any other market and they wanted the Raiders to play in Levi.

so bringing the Rams to LA automatically doubles the value of the Rams, but not the Chargers and Raiders? come on now.

What does your reply have to do with anything I posted. I said nothing about any of that.

 

[tonyl711]

What does your reply have to do with anything I posted. I said nothing about any of that.

you said that the Chargers and Raiders value wouldnt increase, yet you say the Rams will double. your reasoning bieng that the Chargers and Raiders dont have the money Stan has, well explain to me how only the Rams value would increase.

 

[The Ripper]

you said that the Chargers and Raiders value wouldnt increase, yet you say the Rams will double. your reasoning bieng that the Chargers and Raiders dont have the money Stan has, well explain to me how only the Rams value would increase.

Never said anything about comparing values of teams here or anywhere. Valuations of teams are bogus numbers because teams are only worth what someone will pay to buy them.

I have said Raiders and Chargers will have significant debt service which will reduce their revenues.

 

[Angry Ram]

It never ceases to amaze me how the media constantly gets things wrong. I live in Carson, and I know things about the proposed Carson stadium site first hand (I live 4 blocks from it), and the Stub Hub Center. I worked there for over a year during construction. (backhoe-excavator, D-8 dozer operator). That 27,000 seating is for SOCCER. For football, because the field is narrower and shorter, They can add temporoary grandstands and field seating adding up to 41,000. they did this with a Chargers pre-season game and high school football playoff games.
Just saying they got the seating total wrong. don't know if they can live with 40,000 capacity for 2 years. Its a nicer place than the rose bowl or colesium.

Does Clayton even know (or the rest of the media for that matter), that the remediation of the Carson site is far from done? There are several issues that have yet to be addressed. Methane wells and vents still need to be installed. The EPA is still figuring out how to approach the problem of buried 55 gallon drums (over 50,000 of them) leaking toxic sludge to the surface. They can't install the pilings to bedrock (40-50 feet deep), until they solve that problem. Those are just the bigger problems, there are others the Calif. State Board of Heath is concerned with. The cancer rate of the surrounding neighborhoods is 500 times higher than the national rate. the ground water has an unacceptable contamination rate, plus a lot of other little stuff.

It boggles the mind that none of this has ever been fully discussed by the media. They keep making it like they can just start building a stadium there whenever they want, and that's far from the truth. Its possible, but it will take a lot of time and money. Its why that site has been vacant for over 30 years.

I'm still waiting for the media to give us the Calif. State Board of Health and EPA's take on the site. Pretty clear to all of us here in Carson why they haven't. Both those agencies are not going to give their approval for constuction until thier concerns are dealt with, and it may be years and millions before its all said and done.

Yeesh. That screams superfund site. Gonna take decades to clean that up, not to mention constant monitoring.

 

[dbrooks25]

I wonder if the NFL exec was Ray Farmer........

@dbrooks25 AB could sign a deal like that with or without the Rams being a tenant in that stadium. I wouldn't look at it as a big deal..........unless it was a two year deal or a non exclusive deal meaning they can be a sponsor in other stadiums.

I get that, I was just posting the article, nothing more. I didn't take it to mean one thing or another.

 

[dbrooks25]

Would Stan be the third team there? He'd be the first one one in a more central location, in a market that apparently prefers his team. I think he'd be considered the first one.

You're taking what I said too literally, I guess I should have worded that differently. What I meant was would he like to be 1 of 3 teams there? It doesn't matter who's first, second or third. I don't think he wants to.

 

[dbrooks25]

"horribly mishandled"?? What could he possibly be talking about? sounds a bit over the top to me.

He was talking about all of the things that have been debated in this thread about how Stan has been going about things in St. Louis. Agree, don't disagree, just don't shoot the messenger. As a St. Louisan, it's not over the top at all, imo.

Another thing Karraker said was that he spoke to quite a few high ranking NFL execs and was told that several owners were not happy about the way DK has tried to force his way into the LA market. We've heard this before but it is interesting to me that this time around I heard Karraker say he actually spoke to NFL execs who expressed this. Anyway, feel free to pick what he said apart or whatever.

 

[12intheBox]

Not join the league but free to start their own.

And as between the 32 owners it's anything goes - because nothing is really enforceable?

 

[The Ripper]

And as between the 32 owners it's anything goes - because nothing is really enforceable?

Everything relating to the CBA is enforceable.

 

[bluecoconuts]

You're taking what I said too literally, I guess I should have worded that differently. What I meant was would he like to be 1 of 3 teams there? It doesn't matter who's first, second or third. I don't think he wants to.

I don't either, but if he takes the gamble and goes anyway, I think he has a better shot of being successful than the other two. If he indicated that's what he'd do, I think the NFL would likely give in, because if they stick 3 teams there, the Chargers are probably the ones that are fucked, and there are indications the NFL would like to protect Spanos if at all possible. If the Rams just up and moved, I think the NFL would focus on keeping the Raiders in Oakland, because if the Rams and Raiders are in LA that taps the vast majority of fans. The NFL would rather two stadiums in LA with two owners pissy at each other than three teams in LA. Frankly they might as well let it happen, two teams is two teams, if they want different stadiums then whatever, it's not like they're paying any extra for it.

I'm not sure it happens though, in fact I'm getting pretty close to 50/50 shot the Rams stay, because while I maintain Inglewood is better, the NFL seems quite comfortable with Carson. Which will be nice if they stay, because I'm gonna be a bit pissed if I move to St Louis the same year the Rams move to LA.

 

[12intheBox]

Everything relating to the CBA is enforceable.

And that's it? Nothing between owners at all?

 

[dbrooks25]

I don't either, but if he takes the gamble and goes anyway, I think he has a better shot of being successful than the other two. If he indicated that's what he'd do, I think the NFL would likely give in, because if they stick 3 teams there, the Chargers are probably the ones that are fucked, and there are indications the NFL would like to protect Spanos if at all possible. If the Rams just up and moved, I think the NFL would focus on keeping the Raiders in Oakland, because if the Rams and Raiders are in LA that taps the vast majority of fans. The NFL would rather two stadiums in LA with two owners pissy at each other than three teams in LA. Frankly they might as well let it happen, two teams is two teams, if they want different stadiums then whatever, it's not like they're paying any extra for it.

I'm not sure it happens though, in fact I'm getting pretty close to 50/50 shot the Rams stay, because while I maintain Inglewood is better, the NFL seems quite comfortable with Carson. Which will be nice if they stay, because I'm gonna be a bit pissed if I move to St Louis the same year the Rams move to LA.

Yeah I hear you. I still have a hard time believing the team will leave if the city gets the financing settled, I really do.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Yeah I hear you. I still have a hard time believing the team will leave if the city gets the financing settled, I really do.

I can see them leaving, because I don't trust the NFL to do anything right, but if the city gets financing figured out, and the NFL can dangle a carrot for Kroenke I think he may be motivated to help. The city will likely need to figure out a way to let Kroenke own/operate the stadium, but I don't think it's impossible for them to get something done.

 

[tonyl711]

Never said anything about comparing values of teams here or anywhere. Valuations of teams are bogus numbers because teams are only worth what someone will pay to buy them.

I have said Raiders and Chargers will have significant debt service which will reduce their revenues.

but doesnt doubling your value help? all i keep hearing is how LA is the golden goose so to speak, i dont see how its going to hurt either team, yes there will be debt, but according to some on here they will damn near double their revenue, so that extra debt shouldnt be too hard to pay off.

 

[Alan]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_f50d9b09-7aa4-5476-b5df-acc79c370275.html
Bernie: Wow, what insight from the NFL

I’m going to be a little cranky this morning. And no, it doesn’t have anything to do with the hate mail and threats I received from the bitter, heartbroken T.J. Oshie groupies afterrestating my opinion on Oshie being overrated.

No, what bugs me is this official NFL “Market Survey” that took an extensive look at our town’s viability as an NFL market.

According to Post-Dispatch reporter David Hunn, the findings included several pearls. I’ll include my responses:

• St. Louis fans and corporations were fired up to buy tickets when the Rams moved here from Los Angeles, but the support “was not sustained once the team’s on-field success waned.” It was pointed out that the Rams have the league’s fourth-lowest home attendance over the past five seasons.

Comment: Yeah, the disillusionment is shocking. With the Cardinals and Rams, St. Louis has hosted 48 seasons of NFL football. The 48 seasons have produced 16 winning records and eight years of making the playoffs. Since moving here the Rams rank 27th among the 32 NFL teams in winning percentage and haven’t had a winning season since 2003.

The team’s owner is planning to build a new stadium in Los Angeles to house the runaway Rams if the NFL permits him to abandon a St. Louis market that’s serious about building a second new football stadium in less than 25 years. The apathy is incomprehensible. Why would anyone be turned off?

• In the St. Louis sports marketplace the Rams are not as popular or significant as the baseball Cardinals.

Comment: Goodness. Just how much did the NFL pay to commission this remarkably insightful survey, anyway? The Cardinals have won 11 World Series, 19 National League pennants and rate among the most iconic franchises in professional sports. The Rams are 135-184-1 since moving here.


Bill DeWitt Jr. has owned the team for 20 seasons; in his first 19 years the Cardinals made the playoffs 12 times. Since 2000 the Cardinals lead the NL in regular-season wins and have the most postseason victories (64) in the majors. Since DeWitt took over in 1996, the franchise has added four NL pennants and two World Series titles. Oh, yeah: and DeWitt funded nearly 80 percent of the cost of building the new Busch Stadium that opened in 2006.

What is wrong with St. Louis sports fans? How could they possibly have more fondness for the Cardinals over a Rams franchise that’s made the NFL playoffs five times in 20 years and has a winning percentage of .330 over the past 11 seasons?

What is wrong with you people?

• There’s concern over our lack of a “robust regional area.”

Comment: OK, from what we can ascertain, St. Louis is a midsized market that isn’t as vast as Los Angeles, as large as New York City or as populous as Chicago. This area isn’t as big as well, you know, larger metropolitan areas. That’s a sensational scoop. Does anyone else know about this?

Here’s my highly detailed St. Louis market survey: This town has been beaten down by a merciless blitz of losing seasons. There is no such thing as a bad NFL market — only bad NFL teams, and bad NFL owners.

 

[nighttrain]

So, can anyone start a team and demand to be a part of the league?

dont know myself, do think the NFL can exclude you from playing in its league, see USFL
train

 

[dieterbrock]

And that's it? Nothing between owners at all?

Meaning what?