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den-the-coach

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What do you suppose Kroenke and Demoff pitching Inglewood at last week's NFL meeting says?

Now common @MrMotes next thing you're going to post is that what does it say that Kroenke's engineering team is the one spearheading the City of Champions project?

In the end it's obvious, however, he who blinks first loses so now everyone needs to sit back wait for August 11th and relax and enjoy the dog days of summer.
 

WillasDad

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Stop posting that because it's not true. The meeting is not on St Louis but LA relocation. Nixon can say that but the NFL has talked about a meeting for months and they set their meetings not a politician.

I seem to recall a recent article where Nixon did indeed schedule his own August meeting, separate from the owners' meeting, the idea that the League would be so impressed with St. Louis having a plan set in place despite the accelerated timeline.

I could be mistaken.
 

RamzFanz

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You would've been a godsend to Nixon during Watergate @RamzFanz, but I'll play...Enos Stanley" Stan Kroenke has been giving the most strongest of indications that he wants to move the Rams back to Los Angeles and would like them to play in Inglewood, CA where he supposedly has sent out smoke signals that he will fund a 2 billion dollar stadium along with other amenities.

Also Stan has only wanted to stay St. Louis at the EJD and won his case accordingly giving him the right to go year to year. Never has he indicated or sent out any signals that he would embrace a Riverfront Stadium either.

I'm sorry, but you haven't been reading my posts. I have quoted Demoff over and over. They have PUBLICLY stated they support the stadium and have also participated in its design. Demoff attends every Saint Louis stadium discussion with the NFL. The group describes Demoff as a very active participant.

What you have on the LA side are rumors and conjecture based on a plot of land and some drawings. The Rams have themselves stated very clearly they have not ever said they are intending to move. I have quoted it.

Stan wanted the EJD upgraded and the city wouldn't do what he asked so he started this pressure. Whether he wants to go or not is debatable, but it was sure not plan A.

Until he files his intent, I will remain certain he is bluffing. Even after that if STL is still dealing with the funding issues. He must know when STL secures the funding, the die is cast and it's all going against a move to LA.

You can talk "indications" and "smoke signals" all day long, which indicate nothing more than he wants them to indicate, I'm talking about the actual statements and moves made.
 

iced

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Hey like I posted I have no dog in this hunt and I've seen it from both sides, but if you're going to communicate he's (Kroenke) never indicated he wants to move then you need to communicate he has never indicated he would embrace the new stadium project in St. Louis either! Fair is Fair!

Totally agree
 

RamzFanz

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iced

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den-the-coach

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You can talk "indications" and "smoke signals" all day long, which indicate nothing more than he wants them to indicate, I'm talking about the actual statements and moves made.

Okay so per what @MrMotes posted.....What do you suppose Kroenke and Demoff pitching Inglewood at last week's NFL meeting says? And please don't pull a Curtis LeMay and post "It says nothing."
 

MrMotes

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Okay so per what @MrMotes posted.....What do you suppose Kroenke and Demoff pitching Inglewood at last week's NFL meeting says? And please don't pull a Curtis LeMay and post "It says nothing."

I also posted Kevin Demoff saying, on St. Louis radio, to people he was trying to sell tickets to that he can't really say where the Rams will be playing next year, that it was just as likely they'd be out of St. Louis as in...
 

iced

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Thank you sir, you're a gentleman and a scholar.

Although I think his point was that their a giving perception of embracing the stadium by working with the committee, through giving their input and being apart of changes in the design.
 
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iced

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I also posted Kevin Demoff saying, on St. Louis radio, to people he was trying to sell tickets to that he can't really say where the Rams will be playing next year, that it was just as likely they'd be out of St. Louis as in...

You also posted an article that Had Demoff saying they had no desire to move to LA.

It is what it is- Demoff is talking out both sides of his mouth because he has too right now.
 
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RamzFanz

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Okay so per what @MrMotes posted.....What do you suppose Kroenke and Demoff pitching Inglewood at last week's NFL meeting says? And please don't pull a Curtis LeMay and post "It says nothing."

It says they are playing their cards. If Saint Louis falls through, they have plan B. If Saint Louis builds, as they have PUBLICLY stated they support and ACTIVELY participated in the designing, they will stay.

It's a bluff to get what they want AND a plan B if they don't. They have no argument in their favor if Saint Louis builds. No one but Inglewood would support the move.

If you want to talk signals, the NFL has sent up huge ones that Saint Louis is doing all the right things to keep the Rams. The Rams have sent signals they want the stadium. I have quoted them. Demoff said they support Saint Louis building a stadium FOR US.
 

8to12

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It says they are playing their cards. If Saint Louis falls through, they have plan B. If Saint Louis builds, as they have PUBLICLY stated they support and ACTIVELY participated in the designing, they will stay.

It's a bluff to get what they want AND a plan B if they don't. They have no argument in their favor if Saint Louis builds. No one but Inglewood would support the move.

If you want to talk signals, the NFL has sent up huge ones that Saint Louis is doing all the right things to keep the Rams. The Rams have sent signals they want the stadium. I have quoted them. Demoff said they support Saint Louis building a stadium FOR US.

Yes, and Demoff has also said he doesn't know where the team will be playing next season.

Just like the rest of us, you don't know Kroenke's intentions or end game. If, the Rams were to move, they have to appear as negotiating in good faith with the powers to be in STL. So, of course Demoff is involved with dialogue regarding the Riverfront project. If they were to be silent on the matter it would give other owners reason for blocking a move.
Smoke signals? The NFL has sent many smoke signals regarding other things relating to relocation and stadium deals. There are also quotes out there that say STL is doing the right things to guarantee they stay an NFL city......with no mention of the Rams.
The Inglewood stadium has 2 locker rooms. You think Kroenke would initially want to share the stadium in Inglewood if he was to move? The NFL has been part of this since the day Kroenke announced the plans to build. IF the league office (Goodell) didn't want the Rams to move, how come they have enabled Kroenke up to this point?
I'm pro Inglewood but I can't say whether the Rams end up there.
 

bluecoconuts

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Looks to me like the cold shoulder thawed a while back before May. Why would they be involved with the design if they have no intentions of staying?

The NFL told him to play nice and work with them.

None of the which can be losses in the end for him - buying the land? Develop it as something else. Again, what he's spending now pales in comparison to what he's getting. Think about where he was before at arbitration. The CVC's total plan was $124 million in renovation, with half of it coming from them. That's only $62 million in public money... he spends $2 million on concepts, buys some land (which as a real estate developer is just another day), and now the city is ponying up $400 million. It's not hard to see how this game works.

I never said he can't flip it into something else, but he's investing time and money into LA that he's not doing in St Louis. Some he would have to do anyway, some not. The debate isn't if he can or can't turn the land into something else, it's how do we know he wants to go to LA? All of his actions indicate this, people who do talk to him say he does, he's spending more time money and effort on a move to LA than working to stay in St Louis. He can turn around and change that up, but at this point it certainly seems like he wants to go. If he wanted to stay in St Louis, I think you'd see him talking to them more than he is.

Yet Peacock hasn't met with Kroenke in a year and a half... Pretty telling.. Only furthers enhances the belief that Kroenke isn't truly working in good faith with St.Louis

Also while you point out they haven't said "they haven't negotiated in good faith", St.Louis is the only city who continually receives public and emphatic praising of its progress, and where they stand. While also continually being pointed out to be ahead of the other cities. I think that's very telling - if they didn't think the project wasn't viable, they wouldn't praise it. You're not hearing that about the Raiders or San Diego.

Technically they met a few months ago, but it doesn't matter if he and Kroenke have personally spoken or not. Demoff works on his behalf, the narrative that Kroenke has to personally sit down and talk to be considered negotiating is false and will get the city nowhere. Sending someone to speak on his behalf is what he does, he's nicknamed Silent Stan for a reason.

St Louis getting praise for their progress doesn't mean anything in terms of negotiating in good faith. The NFL knows the project is viable, it's pretty obvious that it is. The issue isn't about is the project viable, the issue is does it work for Stan? What happens if Stan doesn't take it? What happens to the market if the bonds expire and the issue hasn't been resolved? Those are the problems, not if the stadium is viable as an NFL stadium. That's only part of the equation. It needs to be viable as an NFL stadium, workable for the city and workable for the owner. 2/3 wont cut it, it's 100% or nothing.

An injunction would only be in place until the courts have made their decision, and this is a pretty common practice.

Kroenke would move before, and I just can't see how the courts could actually rule that a businessman can't do business where he wants, especially when there's already precedent of owners being able to move. This is a complex site, if the courts tried to do an injunction until they made their decision Kroenke would probably refuse and then sue the government for trying,

I think that's a bad assumption. It'd be naive to assume the NFL's lawyers haven't altered contracts and agreements to try to prevent such a battle, or at worst, try to give them more legs to stand on. (I mean hell look at their black out policy - FCC removed the rule but it didn't matter because the NFL still had it written into their TV contracts, hence the senators threatening anti-trust status before doing away with black out rule). But while he's battling in court, which could take years, Carson would be getting built (or even completed depending on how long)...But most importantly, Carson would be getting the backing..The superbowls, etc. While Kroenke wouldn't get anything.. Which if his sticking point on building a stadium was so he could attract Superbowls, it would seem counter productive wouldn't it?

The NFL said they made the bylaws stronger to prevent it, but looking at them I haven't seen it. However perhaps they did, they say they did so I wouldn't be shocked. That being said, it doesn't mean that Kroenke couldn't win if he went to court. Frankly that's all up in the air, I don't know that he would win, I do know that history seems to indicate he could win, but if he did, that's up in the air. Frankly I don't think it gets to that point anyway.

In terms of the blackout rules, we've been over this before, but there is nothing that indicates they ended that due to pressure from Congress to end anti-trust status. We all know that congress likes to thump their chest and rattle the sabres a bit, but in terms of actually doing anything? Not so much. If the NFL really did suspend blackout rules due to pressure from Congress we would have heard about it, Congress would have been standing there patting themselves on the back and talking about how great they were like they always do. As far as I know they didn't, so why would we assume that the NFL caved to their pressure?

I can't imagine a court case would take years, but even if it did, why would the NFL still build Carson? It would be incredibly risky and stupid, because if Inglewood (which you'd assume would be under construction as well) would be done first, and if the courts side with Kroenke, then what? The NFL is fucked, they now have two stadiums in LA, and they have to either try to make three teams work there, or turn away one of the Chargers or the Raiders, and figure out how to cover their half of the stadium, and hope that two teams in two separate stadiums will work out.
 

RamzFanz

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Yes, and Demoff has also said he doesn't know where the team will be playing next season.

Just like the rest of us, you don't know Kroenke's intentions or end game. If, the Rams were to move, they have to appear as negotiating in good faith with the powers to be in STL. So, of course Demoff is involved with dialogue regarding the Riverfront project. If they were to be silent on the matter it would give other owners reason for blocking a move.
Smoke signals? The NFL has sent many smoke signals regarding other things relating to relocation and stadium deals. There are also quotes out there that say STL is doing the right things to guarantee they stay an NFL city......with no mention of the Rams.
The Inglewood stadium has 2 locker rooms. You think Kroenke would initially want to share the stadium in Inglewood if he was to move? The NFL has been part of this since the day Kroenke announced the plans to build. IF the league office (Goodell) didn't want the Rams to move, how come they have enabled Kroenke up to this point?
I'm pro Inglewood but I can't say whether the Rams end up there.

The NFL has listened to Kroenke while Saint Louis gets their ducks in a row. They have not "enabled" him to do anything but talk. The NFL has been pretty clear they want teams to stay where they are and are very positive about Saint Louis building a stadium. They ENCOURAGED Saint Louis to build a stadium. Do you think they will just say sorry after Saint Louis has already invested and taken all the required steps they asked for?

It's not in good faith if they walk away from a new, beautiful, riverside stadium. What could they say? We didn't want a new stadium? It was too expensive? They have nothing to say except Kroenke wants to be even richer.

The Rams aren't just having a dialog with the stadium committee, they are asking for and receiving changes in the design. They have publicly stated they support the stadium that is being built for them. They have never stated they intend to move. They just leave the whole idea hanging for everyone to make assumptions.

"The Inglewood stadium has 2 locker rooms. You think Kroenke would initially want to share the stadium in Inglewood if he was to move?" I don't know what that means.

All the double talk aside, there's no way the NFL allows Kroenke to move once Saint Louis locks down the funding, which Gov Nixon has already stated they have, and that he is not in the slightest bit worried about the hypocritical legislators' lawsuit. I would bet my last dime on it. It's not even reasonably realistic to expect.
 
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bluecoconuts

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The bottom line for Kroenke, if he actually wants to move and isn't just bluffing, is an argument of greed.

What else can they say if he submits an application?

NFL: So, you want to move the Rams to LA?

Kroenke: Yes.

NFL: Why?

Kroenke: More money.

NFL: Are you losing money in Saint Louis?

Kroenke: Oh, no. The team is worth about a billion dollars, the taxpayers will have contributed $728 million so far without the new stadium, I pay no utilities and only a half million a year rent, and every year I make a huge pile of cash. A MASSIVE pile.

NFL: But you want more?

Kroenke: Yes.

NFL: So, you helped uproot the Rams from LA, Saint Louis has basically given you everything you've asked for, the fans still showed when it was a terrible team, you are making money hand over fist, you have no ties to LA and lifelong ties to Saint Louis, LA isn't helping you at all, but you want to screw our Saint Louis NFL fans for more money?

Kroenke: Yes, exactly.

NFL: What about the cities that have run down stadiums and no hope of getting a new one?

Kroenke: Screw them, I'm Kroenke, give me more money.

:)

Seriously, he has no valid argument for moving and there's no way they'll let him. It's all a big bluff. If he tries to move, they will hammer him into the ground. I will bet he doesn't even apply to move knowing there's no way the NFL will vote yes.

A few have speculated his arguments will revolve around:

1) It was wrong to move the Rams from LA in the first place (which would be incredibly ironic, but I suppose he could make the case he knew it would happen regardless of his help or not, or if he's really ballsy say it was his plan all along.

2) That he has the best plan in LA

3) That he has the best team and plan to make LA work for the long run

4) That he has the money to make sure LA works for the long run

5) That he'll make sure that he helps out either the Raiders or Chargers (or both) for their home markets, so everyone is happy and not just 2/3 owners

And a few other things I'm sure, probably will cite market studies and discuss about how St Louis is too toxic for him now, so he needs to leave, etc.

Yeah, it's probably a lot to do with the fact that he see's more money in LA.... But when has that stopped the NFL? Why did Davis move to LA the first time? Why does his son want to go there now? Why does Spanos? Why did the Rams move to St Louis in the first place? Owners move to make more money, they always have. The NFL just looks for ways to pretend that's not the case.
 

bluecoconuts

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What you have on the LA side are rumors and conjecture based on a plot of land and some drawings. The Rams have themselves stated very clearly they have not ever said they are intending to move. I have quoted it.

So why is Demoff working on the Inglewood plan and pitching it to the NFL?


I seem to recall a recent article where Nixon did indeed schedule his own August meeting, separate from the owners' meeting, the idea that the League would be so impressed with St. Louis having a plan set in place despite the accelerated timeline.

I could be mistaken.

I think the confusion is that those are two separate things. Nixon set the August deadline so that when the NFL meets he can be ready for it (which probably indicates the NFL wants to use August as the "This is what we're going with guys." meeting), but he did NOT ask for the NFL to meet in August and they are NOT meeting because of him.
 

The Ripper

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I seem to recall a recent article where Nixon did indeed schedule his own August meeting, separate from the owners' meeting, the idea that the League would be so impressed with St. Louis having a plan set in place despite the accelerated timeline.

I could be mistaken.

The meeting is on the LA relocation timeline and on the proposals in LA.
 

The Ripper

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Before they passed the vote. What you are doing is clouding the reality. They approved the move by vote. No team has ever successfully moved without permission except the Raiders, correct?

Clouding the issue you have been posting stuff all day that is not even close to being true. The Rams did not apply for relocation to Baltimore.

The NFL works on the relocation before there's a vote. Most teams have worked with the NFL to come to a solution. The Raiders moved back to Oakland on their own but would have been approved. The Rams situation for the move is completely different and the only reason that the move was approved was because of the threat of protracted and costly litigation.
 
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RamzFanz

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1) It was wrong to move the Rams from LA in the first place (which would be incredibly ironic, but I suppose he could make the case he knew it would happen regardless of his help or not, or if he's really ballsy say it was his plan all along.

I think we both know that won't fly at all. He was one of the driving forces for the move.

2) That he has the best plan in LA

He DOES have the best plan, for one team that doesn't need it. He has no way to claim he does.

3) That he has the best team and plan to make LA work for the long run

One team over two in the same stadium? That would be a very hard sell.

4) That he has the money to make sure LA works for the long run

He does have that.

5) That he'll make sure that he helps out either the Raiders or Chargers (or both) for their home markets, so everyone is happy and not just 2/3 owners

He could do that. Seems like a real stretch.

And a few other things I'm sure, probably will cite market studies and discuss about how St Louis is too toxic for him now, so he needs to leave, etc.

How can a man claim a city that is building a billion dollar stadium and fighting to keep the team, his own home town, is toxic?

Anyways, unless something develops, I think I'll take everyone at their words and they aren't moving.
 
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