New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[den-the-coach]

Pat Haden said he's already agreed to let an NFL team use the Colliseum while an LA area stadium is built. Plus he's a former Ram so working with him is a natural.

Still couldn't throw the damn ball! How Pat Haden would throw the ball 60 yards...He would throw it 30 yards and Vince Ferragamo would pick the ball up and throw it the remaining 30 yards.

 

[iced]

The Cleveland to Baltimore situation was very different from this one. First part of the blame falls on Modell. When Cleveland decided to build Progressive Field Modell had an opportunity to be part of the process and chose not to. In the end it was a bad decision and he proved that he lost $21million between ’93 and ’94. I think we agree Stan cannot make the same claim. There was no money on the table when Modell announced his move it wasn’t until after the announcement and that agreement with Baltimore that the voters of Cleveland voted to approved funds in ‘95. STL has money on the table now before relocation. You are correct that the lease ran until ’98, we both know we have no lease, and the city filed an injunction to keep the team until ’98. That would have created 3 lame duck seasons which is what lead to the settlement with the NFL allowing them to move. I tried to find details on how the new Cleveland stadium was paid for but couldn’t find anything so if you can I’d be interested in reading it.

From a Charger stadium proposal from 2002

http://www.sandiego.gov/chargersissues/pdf/horrowpartner.pdf

In Cleveland, the $300 million Cleveland Stadium was paid for with a $212 million public contribution. The City of Cleveland issued $138 million of Certificates of Participation, backed by a City eight percent parking tax, two percent admissions tax, hotel tax, and rental car tax, along with a County “sin tax” extension on alcohol and cigarettes. The City utilities department kicked in $6 million; the Regional Transit Authority contributed $3 million; and the State of Ohio contributed $33 million to the total. The private contribution comprised $88 million, with $10 million from the business community (Cleveland Tomorrow), and $78 million from team-sold PSLs and other sources.

^ That article includes stadium financing for: Ravens, Bengals, Bucs, Browns, Lions, Texans, Jags, Rams, Seahawks, Titans (just don't forget the article is from 2002)

List of redesigned/new stadiums from 97 to 2011 (decent reference point for googling old articles)
http://prod.static.vikings.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/stadium/DES-recent-nfl-stadiums.pdf

 

[RamFan503]

Still couldn't throw the damn ball! How Pat Haden would throw the ball 60 yards...He would throw it 30 yards and Vince Ferragamo would pick the ball up and throw it the remaining 30 yards.

Hey! Lay off my man Pat!

Not sure why but I always liked him as a QB. Probably because you couldn't just pull up stats anytime you wanted back then. He was fun to watch.

 

[ChrisW]

Looks like the hearing today was just some formal precedings. The arguments on both sides will take place 6/25.

The SLU professor that was trying to intervene was shot down. Both the RSA and the city thought that his arguments would echo what the city had to say anyway.

My info is a mix from user "Marxist" on the PD forums. And a tweet by Jim Thomas.


View: https://twitter.com/jthom1/status/606858375570157568?s=09

 

[RamFan503]

Looks like the hearing today was just some formal precedings. The arguments on both sides will take place 6/25.

The SLU professor that was trying to intervene was shot down. Both the RSA and the city thought that his arguments would echo what the city had to say anyway.

My info is a mix from user "Marxist" on the PD forums. And a tweet by Jim Thomas.


View: https://twitter.com/jthom1/status/606858375570157568?s=09

Could you elaborate on "shot down"? Was he disallowed from intervening? If no arguments were heard, I don't get how he would be shot down.

 

[ChrisW]

Could you elaborate on "shot down"? Was he disallowed from intervening? If no arguments were heard, I don't get how he would be shot down.

Here's a direct quote from Marxist. He sat in the courtroom today.

Then he turned his attention to Professor Ammann and Professor Roediger, who are the SLU LAW clinic professors representing the proposed intervenors, the taxpayer watchdogs, who were present in the audience. They moved to have their argument for their motion to intervene heard, and the City and RSA (via Winston Calvert and Bob Blitz, respectively) objected on the grounds of judicial economy, saying things like "We'd probably wind up hearing a lot of repeated arguments that you'd already be hearing from the City," etc. The judge denied Professor Ammann's motion.

Professor Ammann noted that part of the reason he wants to intervene is because of the lack of information to which he and his taxpayer watchdog clients are privy to in this case, but the judge responded that there isn't a formal discovery process in the case anyway, that both parties to the suit essentially agree to all the facts and their memos are all public record, anyway... both parties moved for a judgment on the pleadings, because they believe the case can be decided as a matter of law. The entire exchange between Judge Frawley and Prof. Ammann was extremely cordial and at no time contentious.

 

[RamFan503]

Here's a direct quote from Marxist. He sat in the courtroom today.

Interesting. So the city - with a mayor in favor of the stadium - has agreed with the Stadium Authority that all the facts are there and they would like to just argue amongst themselves. Doesn't sound like a done deal at all to me. Fox guarding the hen house anybody? REALLY calls into question why they had the other judge removed and the city didn't object.

I love this part: "We'd probably wind up hearing a lot of repeated arguments that you'd already be hearing from the City," etc. Sounds about right. We probably have all the information and Ammann probably wouldn't bring forth any arguments or information that the two sides haven't thought of so it probably wouldn't change anything in the case. After all, the two sides only want to save the courts time and money. That's probably their only concern.

For what it's worth, apparently the judge actually decided that Ammann's testimony would not be needed at this time but that he may request it once he has seen the arguments from the two sides.

For better or worse, I call bullshit. This is coming off way too shady with the first judge asking to be removed and then the second being removed with no explanation such as maybe the judge was biased or anything of the sort. Now the judge that everyone is okeedokie with won't allow interveners in order to save the courts' time? :jerkoff:

 

[iced]

Interesting. So the city - with a mayor in favor of the stadium - has agreed with the Stadium Authority that all the facts are there and they would like to just argue amongst themselves. Doesn't sound like a done deal at all to me. Fox guarding the hen house anybody? REALLY calls into question why they had the other judge removed and the city didn't object.

I love this part: "We'd probably wind up hearing a lot of repeated arguments that you'd already be hearing from the City," etc. Sounds about right. We probably have all the information and Ammann probably wouldn't bring forth any arguments or information that the two sides haven't thought of so it probably wouldn't change anything in the case. After all, the two sides only want to save the courts time and money. That's probably their only concern.

For what it's worth, apparently the judge actually decided that Ammann's testimony would not be needed at this time but that he may request it once he has seen the arguments from the two sides.

For better or worse, I call bullcrap. This is coming off way too shady with the first judge asking to be removed and then the second being removed with no explanation such as maybe the judge was biased or anything of the sort. Now the judge that everyone is okeedokie with won't allow interveners in order to save the courts' time? :jerkoff:

The first judge wasn't asked to be removed, he removed himself for health reasons - believe he's sick

 

[RamFan503]

The first judge wasn't asked to be removed, he removed himself for health reasons - believe he's sick

That's what I said. "with the first judge asking to be removed" Starting a supposedly open and shut case on the third judge is not exactly SOP.

Everything could be perfectly above board but something smells fishy in Denmark.

 

[The Ripper]

From a Charger stadium proposal from 2002

http://www.sandiego.gov/chargersissues/pdf/horrowpartner.pdf



^ That article includes stadium financing for: Ravens, Bengals, Bucs, Browns, Lions, Texans, Jags, Rams, Seahawks, Titans (just don't forget the article is from 2002)

List of redesigned/new stadiums from 97 to 2011 (decent reference point for googling old articles)
http://prod.static.vikings.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/stadium/DES-recent-nfl-stadiums.pdf

The NFL fronted the private portion of the financing and was paid back after the franchise was awarded.

The first article uses the data from the congressional hearings but has the complete opposite conclusion. Just shows how when it comes down to a decision from the NFL the data used can make the case either way to support the result.

 

[Hacksaw]

Hey! Lay off my man Pat!

Not sure why but I always liked him as a QB. Probably because you couldn't just pull up stats anytime you wanted back then. He was fun to watch.

He was a rhodes scholar and played smart. He has to stand on his tippy toes to see over the line though.. I was in the Ferragamo camp.

 

[Hacksaw]

That's what I said. "with the first judge asking to be removed" Starting a supposedly open and shut case on the third judge is not exactly SOP.

Everything could be perfectly above board but something smells fishy in Denmark.

The way things are going in StL someone is likely to file a law suit against Mayor now.

 

[RamFan503]

He was a rhodes scholar and played smart. He has to stand on his tippy toes to see over the line though.. I was in the Ferragamo camp.

So you're a duck hunter.

 

[Hacksaw]

So you're a duck hunter.

But he could hit those ducks if they were 60 yards away without the bounce.

 

[RamFan503]

But he could hit those ducks if they were 60 yards away without the bounce.

Only if the duck flew toward his duck at a 90 degree angle to where it would have bounced.

 

[Hacksaw]

Only if the duck flew toward his duck at a 90 degree angle to where it would have bounced.

Thank gawd McCutcheon could pass. Amazing Waddy, Jessie, Jackson and Miller could see the ball through all those duck feathers flying around..

 

[Hacksaw]

Vinny was a rock star in Rams clothing. Plus he lives near me and we see him from time to time. Very cool dude.

Notice the over sized helmet Pat is wearing , , oh wait.......

 

[MrMotes]

The Mad Bomber...

 

[den-the-coach]

Hey! Lay off my man Pat!

Not sure why but I always liked him as a QB. Probably because you couldn't just pull up stats anytime you wanted back then. He was fun to watch.

Okay I was at the Rams vs. Giants game in December of 81 and the wind was blowing. The Rams lost the game 10-7 because your man could not throw the football more than 20 yards against a stiff wind. Spiral or not Ferragamo could throw it through a brick wall.

Another thing about your man Pat, he was the one that went to Rosenbloom in 1978 about George Allen because Allen asked the Rhode Scholar to pick up a piece of paper while he was walking into the locker room after practice.

I respect Pat Haden from the neck up, but he was a curse to the Rams. He cost the Rams Ron Jaworski who they traded to the Eagles and James Harris who they traded to the Chargers. Then he stunk it up and they went for old man river in Joe Willie Namath in 1977.

Fast Forward to after 1980 When Vince Ferragamo threw 30 touchdowns and led the Rams to a 11-5 record the Rams let Ferragamo walk because of shorty pants and thus they went 6-10 and finished the year with another washed up signal caller in Dante Pastorini because Haden was awful...That's right, awful!

Rams then give up draft choices in 1982 for Bert Jones and bring back Ferragamo so they never have to deal with that pea shooter of an arm ever, ever, ever again!

Pat Haden great guy was curse for the Rams!!!!! Rant.

 

[iced]

The NFL fronted the private portion of the financing and was paid back after the franchise was awarded.

The first article uses the data from the congressional hearings but has the complete opposite conclusion. Just shows how when it comes down to a decision from the NFL the data used can make the case either way to support the result.

This is actually a more updated chart, and you can definitely see the transition to more public funded stadiums from 2002.

The NFL "fronting" that $78 million while getting 200 from the public i think is consistent with what they want - especially since teams are now allowed to borrow $300 million in debt

https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/nfl-funding-summary-12-2-11.pdf