New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[blue4]

What Sum is saying and it's true is that the clause made it so that the Rams could opt out if the CVC did not or was unable to keep the dome in the top 25%. If a contract has an option written right into it, it is not breach if one side decides not to spend that money to keep it in the top 25% and therefore allowing the other to go year to year at a specified time.

Both sides made a decision. The CVC decided not to spend the money. Stan decided to use his option to go year to year. If Stan had an actual breach argument, he could have and likely would have sued for somewhere in the neighborhood of triple damages plus.

It was a stupid lease negotiated by a desperate CVC. But no one was in breach unless you consider it breach of common sense.

I'm having trouble understanding why this is so hard for some to understand. Options on a lease aren't even rare, it's common. These just happen to be one sided.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Okay, well breach is probably not the best use of the word, but St Louis not living up to their end, gave the Rams the out. The point I was originally making is that Kroenke going year to year on the lease isn't going to be used against him or help Spanos win over any votes. The Rams were only able to go to year to year because St Louis didn't keep the dome in the top 25% of the league as they were supposed to according to the lease and didn't want to pay for the necessary upgrades. If anything this helps Kroenke, not Spanos, because the Cardinals cited problems with building and maintaining a stadium for reasons for leaving as well.

 

[The Ripper]

The term used in the lease summary is default but the Rams had to sign a waiver of breach when they agreed to the 30 million in upgrades.

https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/pdf/ls-nfl-stlouis.pdf

 

[blue4]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I've seen the baseball town label slapped more on STL than any other city.

Agreed.

 

[blue4]

Okay, well breach is probably not the best use of the word, but St Louis not living up to their end, gave the Rams the out. The point I was originally making is that Kroenke going year to year on the lease isn't going to be used against him or help Spanos win over any votes. The Rams were only able to go to year to year because St Louis didn't keep the dome in the top 25% of the league as they were supposed to according to the lease and didn't want to pay for the necessary upgrades. If anything this helps Kroenke, not Spanos, because the Cardinals cited problems with building and maintaining a stadium for reasons for leaving as well.

You're right, the year to year isn't going to hurt Kroenke at all. Although I very much doubt that the old Cardinals will even be brought up. That fact that we are putting so much effort into riverfront and that we built EJD kind of puts that in the past. That'd be like bringing up Woodstock when planning a concert today. Half the people involved in the Cardinals move are probably dead.

Reading back over this thread seems to me like we are probably over complicating the decision process here. I'd be willing to bet half of what we think is important won't even be brought up. Who's got more fans where, past dealings with old owners, I am beginning to think it's mostly irrelevant.

 

[bluecoconuts]

You're right, the year to year isn't going to hurt Kroenke at all. Although I very much doubt that the old Cardinals will even be brought up. That fact that we are putting so much effort into riverfront and that we built EJD kind of puts that in the past. That'd be like bringing up Woodstock when planning a concert today. Half the people involved in the Cardinals move are probably dead.

Reading back over this thread seems to me like we are probably over complicating the decision process here. I'd be willing to bet half of what we think is important won't even be brought up. Who's got more fans where, past dealings with old owners, I am beginning to think it's mostly irrelevant.

The only reason why I think Kroenke may bring it up is because the Cardinals had issues with maintaining the stadium. Then they built the Dome and said they'd maintain it, but the Rams had that problem still. So how does he know that after committing to stay there and put up more money that he's not going to struggle to maintain the stadium in the future? I don't know if he would use that, but if I was trying to argue my case to leave I'd bring it up. I assume Kroenke has enough smart people working with him, they see that same angle. Then again they may see it as stupid to bring up, so who really knows.

 

[RamFan503]

The term used in the lease summary is default but the Rams had to sign a waiver of breach when they agreed to the 30 million in upgrades.

https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/pdf/ls-nfl-stlouis.pdf

What am I missing? Is this a section from a research paper? Can you point to the relevant section?

 

[RamFan503]

The first is an article goes through the history and the 2nd is the CVC proposal.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_df40eeaa-1321-500b-afd7-c8e543ba797e.html

http://www.stltoday.com/view-a-pdf-...pdf_9733fd6c-4d4f-11e1-bd5e-001a4bcf6878.html

Y'know, semantics and legal definitions aside, I think the one area this really puts to question to me is the good faith argument. If the CVC negotiated a deal as part of delaying the top 25% clause back in'05 - '07 when they negotiated this extension (if you will), they knew a couple things. They knew back then that the other NFL stadiums were already putting them well below the top 25% and that it was going to take quite a bit to get there but that also, they should have been doing what Dan Dierdorf was saying and working toward putting together funding to either remodel the dome or build new. He was part of the CVC and if the timeline is accurate then he was warning fellow members back in '07 that short of that they could lose the Rams.

Five years later the CVC offers up an extremely low ball offer. I'm not saying they should have offered the $750 million improvement but at least a realistic proposal might have not only been looked upon more favorably by the arbitrators but also been at least a starting point for negotiations with Stan. Many may disagree but Stan was IMO under no obligation to start at their level and offer something less after that kind of snub from the CVC. It just seems to me that the CVC felt they owned all the cards and could jerk Stan around. Now the governor is stepping in to save the day.

I'm going to guess that if Stan wants to leave he is arguing that it has been going on for 8-10 years and not only was the Inglewood ball already rolling when the Governor stepped in but that there was really no good faith effort prior to it. Frankly, it may be an argument he can win.

 

[The Ripper]

What am I missing? Is this a section from a research paper? Can you point to the relevant section?

That's just the lease summary and they use default and the term to terminate the lease. In a standard commercial lease the Default and Remedies clause defines what constitutes a default breach of the lease by both Tenant and Landlord, and lays out the remedies both parties can take to resolve the other’s breach.

 

[den-the-coach]

 

[blue4]

Y'know, semantics and legal definitions aside, I think the one area this really puts to question to me is the good faith argument. If the CVC negotiated a deal as part of delaying the top 25% clause back in'05 - '07 when they negotiated this extension (if you will), they knew a couple things. They knew back then that the other NFL stadiums were already putting them well below the top 25% and that it was going to take quite a bit to get there but that also, they should have been doing what Dan Dierdorf was saying and working toward putting together funding to either remodel the dome or build new. He was part of the CVC and if the timeline is accurate then he was warning fellow members back in '07 that short of that they could lose the Rams.

Five years later the CVC offers up an extremely low ball offer. I'm not saying they should have offered the $750 million improvement but at least a realistic proposal might have not only been looked upon more favorably by the arbitrators but also been at least a starting point for negotiations with Stan. Many may disagree but Stan was IMO under no obligation to start at their level and offer something less after that kind of snub from the CVC. It just seems to me that the CVC felt they owned all the cards and could jerk Stan around. Now the governor is stepping in to save the day.

I'm going to guess that if Stan wants to leave he is arguing that it has been going on for 8-10 years and not only was the Inglewood ball already rolling when the Governor stepped in but that there was really no good faith effort prior to it. Frankly, it may be an argument he can win.

Frankly IMO, at this point the NFL is going to do what it wants and create the reasons why later. There's to many excellent points and counter points to be sorted thru. He can argue the CVC is at fault, they can argue Stan won't talk and didn't buy the team in good faith. And in many ways they will both be right.

 

[BuiltRamTough]

View: https://twitter.com/dkaplansbj/status/603194838809448448



View: https://twitter.com/number1rams_fan/status/603195324082061312



View: https://twitter.com/dkaplansbj/status/603195635198722048


View: https://twitter.com/dkaplansbj/status/603197385435668481

The last tweet is intresring, idk what it really means but couldn't SD,OAK, or STL do the same?

 

[Goose]

Man it has been a long time since I've thought of Captain Kangaroo. I always preferred my captains to have a bit more hair.
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

 

[The Ripper]

The last tweet is intresring, idk what it really means but couldn't SD,OAK, or STL do the same?

This one too.

 

[CoachO]

The only reason why I think Kroenke may bring it up is because the Cardinals had issues with maintaining the stadium. Then they built the Dome and said they'd maintain it, but the Rams had that problem still. So how does he know that after committing to stay there and put up more money that he's not going to struggle to maintain the stadium in the future? I don't know if he would use that, but if I was trying to argue my case to leave I'd bring it up. I assume Kroenke has enough smart people working with him, they see that same angle. Then again they may see it as stupid to bring up, so who really knows.

You are comparing apples to oranges with the Cardinals stadium situation. They played in a BASEBALL stadium that was operated by the baseball team. So them having "issues" with maintaining the stadium is no where near the same thing here.

I have also read you say many times throughout this thread that the city of STL, didn't uphold their end of the lease. Somehow BREACHING it. That is not even remotely accurate. This whole thing played out exactly how EVERYONE envisioned it would. As far back as 3 years ago, when the topic of "top tier" first reared its ugly head, Kevin Demoff laid out the entire scenario to season ticket holders at one the the luncheons the team held. He said at that time, that the team would make a proposal based on their interpretation of what "top tier" was, as would the CVC. He laid out all the scenarios, including the one that actually occurred. The two parties would be far apart on what they thought would bring the dome in line with the clause.

He also stated, that arbitration would be likely. It has been discussed, that the CVC waited too long to explore options in terms of an alternate stadium. Per the lease, NEITHER party could explore any options that didn't involve the dome. As the Rams were tied to the lease, so was the CVC. It was only after it went to the arbitrator, could either party look at any other options, be it local or otherwise. The CVC excercised is right to decline the arbitrator's decision. This was part of the lease. Therefore, no breach.

Demoff even suggested that the Rams "may" push the envelop and be very aggressive in what they hoped for regarding the dome upgrades. Translation----- our proposal will be such that the CVC will NOT be able to agree to it. So lets stop with the idea that the city of STL and CVC somehow "dropped the ball" here, and that is why this is all happening. The end game all along for the Rams was to get a new facility. Demoff made that perfectly clear. He also went so far as to say "HE" preferred an outdoor stadium as it would make selling premium seating easier. Again, this was THREE YEARS AGO.

What I don't ever see brought up in this discussion..... if the CVC would have accepted the decision, and went ahead with the $700M upgrades, they would have forced the team to find somewhere to play for however long it took to complete the upgrade. The ONLY likely facility would have been to play the games at Mizzou (125 miles west of STL). The other part of that scenario, the convention business would have been lost, costing the CVC even more in lost revenue. So this was never going to be considered, and the Rams knew it.

The thing that was never discussed (for obvious reasons) was the idea of them looking to LA as one of the alternative options.

 

[dbrooks25]

You are comparing apples to oranges with the Cardinals stadium situation. They played in a BASEBALL stadium that was operated by the baseball team. So them having "issues" with maintaining the stadium is no where near the same thing here.

I have also read you say many times throughout this thread that the city of STL, didn't uphold their end of the lease. Somehow BREACHING it. That is not even remotely accurate. This whole thing played out exactly how EVERYONE envisioned it would. As far back as 3 years ago, when the topic of "top tier" first reared its ugly head, Kevin Demoff laid out the entire scenario to season ticket holders at one the the luncheons the team held. He said at that time, that the team would make a proposal based on their interpretation of what "top tier" was, as would the CVC. He laid out all the scenarios, including the one that actually occurred. The two parties would be far apart on what they thought would bring the dome in line with the clause.

He also stated, that arbitration would be likely. It has been discussed, that the CVC waited too long to explore options in terms of an alternate stadium. Per the lease, NEITHER party could explore any options that didn't involve the dome. As the Rams were tied to the lease, so was the CVC. It was only after it went to the arbitrator, could either party look at any other options, be it local or otherwise. The CVC excercised is right to decline the arbitrator's decision. This was part of the lease. Therefore, no breach.

Demoff even suggested that the Rams "may" push the envelop and be very aggressive in what they hoped for regarding the dome upgrades. Translation----- our proposal will be such that the CVC will NOT be able to agree to it. So lets stop with the idea that the city of STL and CVC somehow "dropped the ball" here, and that is why this is all happening. The end game all along for the Rams was to get a new facility. Demoff made that perfectly clear. He also went so far as to say "HE" preferred an outdoor stadium as it would make selling premium seating easier. Again, this was THREE YEARS AGO.

What I don't ever see brought up in this discussion..... if the CVC would have accepted the decision, and went ahead with the $700M upgrades, they would have forced the team to find somewhere to play for however long it took to complete the upgrade. The ONLY likely facility would have been to play the games at Mizzou (125 miles west of STL). The other part of that scenario, the convention business would have been lost, costing the CVC even more in lost revenue. So this was never going to be considered, and the Rams knew it.

The thing that was never discussed (for obvious reasons) was the idea of them looking to LA as one of the alternative options.

Very well explained. Hard to dispute, but I'm sure someone try soon. Anyway,

 

[blue4]

You are comparing apples to oranges with the Cardinals stadium situation. They played in a BASEBALL stadium that was operated by the baseball team. So them having "issues" with maintaining the stadium is no where near the same thing here.

I have also read you say many times throughout this thread that the city of STL, didn't uphold their end of the lease. Somehow BREACHING it. That is not even remotely accurate. This whole thing played out exactly how EVERYONE envisioned it would. As far back as 3 years ago, when the topic of "top tier" first reared its ugly head, Kevin Demoff laid out the entire scenario to season ticket holders at one the the luncheons the team held. He said at that time, that the team would make a proposal based on their interpretation of what "top tier" was, as would the CVC. He laid out all the scenarios, including the one that actually occurred. The two parties would be far apart on what they thought would bring the dome in line with the clause.

He also stated, that arbitration would be likely. It has been discussed, that the CVC waited too long to explore options in terms of an alternate stadium. Per the lease, NEITHER party could explore any options that didn't involve the dome. As the Rams were tied to the lease, so was the CVC. It was only after it went to the arbitrator, could either party look at any other options, be it local or otherwise. The CVC excercised is right to decline the arbitrator's decision. This was part of the lease. Therefore, no breach.

Demoff even suggested that the Rams "may" push the envelop and be very aggressive in what they hoped for regarding the dome upgrades. Translation----- our proposal will be such that the CVC will NOT be able to agree to it. So lets stop with the idea that the city of STL and CVC somehow "dropped the ball" here, and that is why this is all happening. The end game all along for the Rams was to get a new facility. Demoff made that perfectly clear. He also went so far as to say "HE" preferred an outdoor stadium as it would make selling premium seating easier. Again, this was THREE YEARS AGO.

What I don't ever see brought up in this discussion..... if the CVC would have accepted the decision, and went ahead with the $700M upgrades, they would have forced the team to find somewhere to play for however long it took to complete the upgrade. The ONLY likely facility would have been to play the games at Mizzou (125 miles west of STL). The other part of that scenario, the convention business would have been lost, costing the CVC even more in lost revenue. So this was never going to be considered, and the Rams knew it.

The thing that was never discussed (for obvious reasons) was the idea of them looking to LA as one of the alternative options.

Thank you for the detail. Hopefully now this notion of contract breaching or failure will be put to bed.

 

[Sum1]

You are comparing apples to oranges with the Cardinals stadium situation. They played in a BASEBALL stadium that was operated by the baseball team. So them having "issues" with maintaining the stadium is no where near the same thing here.

I have also read you say many times throughout this thread that the city of STL, didn't uphold their end of the lease. Somehow BREACHING it. That is not even remotely accurate. This whole thing played out exactly how EVERYONE envisioned it would. As far back as 3 years ago, when the topic of "top tier" first reared its ugly head, Kevin Demoff laid out the entire scenario to season ticket holders at one the the luncheons the team held. He said at that time, that the team would make a proposal based on their interpretation of what "top tier" was, as would the CVC. He laid out all the scenarios, including the one that actually occurred. The two parties would be far apart on what they thought would bring the dome in line with the clause.

He also stated, that arbitration would be likely. It has been discussed, that the CVC waited too long to explore options in terms of an alternate stadium. Per the lease, NEITHER party could explore any options that didn't involve the dome. As the Rams were tied to the lease, so was the CVC. It was only after it went to the arbitrator, could either party look at any other options, be it local or otherwise. The CVC excercised is right to decline the arbitrator's decision. This was part of the lease. Therefore, no breach.

Demoff even suggested that the Rams "may" push the envelop and be very aggressive in what they hoped for regarding the dome upgrades. Translation----- our proposal will be such that the CVC will NOT be able to agree to it. So lets stop with the idea that the city of STL and CVC somehow "dropped the ball" here, and that is why this is all happening. The end game all along for the Rams was to get a new facility. Demoff made that perfectly clear. He also went so far as to say "HE" preferred an outdoor stadium as it would make selling premium seating easier. Again, this was THREE YEARS AGO.

What I don't ever see brought up in this discussion..... if the CVC would have accepted the decision, and went ahead with the $700M upgrades, they would have forced the team to find somewhere to play for however long it took to complete the upgrade. The ONLY likely facility would have been to play the games at Mizzou (125 miles west of STL). The other part of that scenario, the convention business would have been lost, costing the CVC even more in lost revenue. So this was never going to be considered, and the Rams knew it.

The thing that was never discussed (for obvious reasons) was the idea of them looking to LA as one of the alternative options.

Not to mention that upgrading the dome would have only guaranteed the team staying the remaining 10 years of the lease...then they'd be sitting here doing the same thing in 2025.

 

[CoachO]

Not to mention that upgrading the dome would have only guaranteed the team staying the remaining 10 years of the lease...then they'd be sitting here doing the same thing in 2025.

it would have been thru 2025, but they would have lost up to 3 of those years during the construction..

 

[Sum1]

it would have been thru 2025, but they would have lost up to 3 of those years during the construction..

Exactly.