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den-the-coach

Fifty-four Forty or Fight
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Dennis
. '99 was catching lightning in a bottle and not about Shaw being even a decent prez.

There was one thing that Shaw was great at and that was negotiating a business deal. That's why St. Louis is in this position because Shaw made sure of the clause that the stadium had to remain in the top tier of stadiums.

I always felt that if John Shaw's football's acumen was equal to his business acuity the Rams would have numerous Super Bowls. That being posted I concur I despise both Shaw & Zygmunt for what they did to my beloved football team IMHO.
 

bluecoconuts

Legend
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
13,073
Don't put words in my mouth. I wasn't criticizing anyone. I was making arguments in opposition to Legatron's assertion that STL needs the Rams more than LA.

If I offended you I am sorry. I try to be respectful to those in STL who may possibly lose the team to relocation. Maybe today I overstepped my bounds. It was not my intention.

He was talking economics though, nothing about fans. The debate of if spending hundreds of millions of dollars for stadiums helping or hurting a city financially aside, I'd agree LA doesn't need money from an NFL team, the prestige is nice, but LA is a big city with a lot of different things going on, NFL or no NFL it's a global city.
 

RamBill

Legend
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
8,874
Bernie: Build it, but NFL won't necessarily come
• By Bernie Miklasz

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_008c2f52-e123-5eed-a1cc-8615f2cda504.html

Last week, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell praised the “tremendous progress” of the St. Louis effort on the proposed football stadium on our north riverfront.

I took that as a positive sign, at least in this context — it’s obvious that St. Louis stadium task-force leaders Dave Peacock and Bob Blitz have established credibility with the league.

Peacock-Blitz have earned the NFL’s trust to this point. But until the land is purchased and the stadium is funded, the trust is conditional. Without the stadium, the Rams are on their way to Los Angeles, and St. Louis is finished in the NFL.

For now the Peacock-Blitz efforts are being taken seriously by the league, and it was important to reach that point.

On one level, I like the way this is trending for St. Louis. I hesitate to say that, because it’s a volatile and predictable situation that can change at any moment.

For example: after Rams owner Stan Kroenke revealed a stunning plan to build a stadium complex near Los Angeles back in January, little did we know the San Diego Chargers and Oakland Raiders would spring their own surprise and announce a partnership to build a stadium in the LA suburb of Carson, Calif.

A few months later the Carson plan seems to be gaining momentum, with the powerful Goldman Sachs firm handling the financing, and former NFL executive Carmen Policy signing on as the Carson lobbyist and point man.

If the Chargers and Raiders succeed in getting the NFL to endorse Carson over Kroenke’s Inglewood plan, that’s a huge plus for St. Louis. Goodell has said that the NFL will pick one stadium, not both. And the league won’t allow three teams to occupy the LA market. Two is the limit. If Kroenke loses out, he might have no choice but to cut a deal in St. Louis.

(Unless, of course, Kroenke chooses to take the league on in a protracted legal battle. Given that Kroenke already stands in violation of an NFL rule prohibiting cross ownership, a decision to go rogue could be risky business. This is another column for another time.)

If the Carson plan wins the battle for Los Angeles, the league would have solved the California problem inside California without stripping a franchise from another region.

Unlike Kroenke, the Chargers and Raiders have been waiting many years for new stadiums in their markets. The Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis might be dull, but it’s relatively new compared to the football stadiums in Oakland and San Diego. When measured against Kroenke, the Chargers and Raiders have it much worse in their current venues.

So if Carson emerges as the victor over Kroenke, and Peacock-Blitz finalize the stadium funding, you’d think it would put St. Louis in a great position.

But one thing that keeps my optimism in check and my confidence reduced by doubt — there are no guarantees. The NFL still won’t say that a new stadium will assure St. Louis of a place in the league. The NFL refuses to make that commitment.

At some point, this becomes a question of honor.

The NFL likes to tout its strong desire to keep teams in their markets, working on solutions, instead of letting them run away. And the league likes to strike a tough pose, pointing to its reinforced relocation rules, insisting that all teams must abide by them.

Here are the questions I have for Goodell:

How can this league allow the Rams to sprint to Los Angeles if St. Louis comes through with funding for a new stadium before the Rams’ lease expires at the Edward Jones Dome? How would that be permissible under the relocation rules?

How can this league abandon St. Louis when our town is prepared to build a second NFL venue in less than 25 years? How many NFL markets have made such an emphatic and expensive commitment as St. Louis?

How many times has the NFL vacated a market that has funding in place, and land purchased and cleared, to construct a $985 million stadium? How many times has the league allowed a franchise to run away from a new stadium? Actually, I can answer this one: it’s never happened.

Not only that, but St. Louis still is paying off the cost of building the Edward Jones Dome. But the market is willing to do this all over again, and deliver another new stadium.

That means we’ll be paying off two stadiums at the same time. In league history, has any market gone to such dramatic lengths to maintain NFL residency?

How could you possibly look anyone in the eye and say that Kroenke made a sincere effort in St. Louis when he wouldn’t even participate in one meeting with Peacock-Blitz or Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon?

The NFL makes a big show about standing on principle and ethics by fining players for violent hits, or suspending players that run afoul of the law, and disciplining players who haven’t been charged with a crime.

This is a league that just went over the top in penalizing the New England Patriots for using slightly deflated footballs, a rules infraction that until now had drawn nothing more severe than a warning or a $25,000 fine.

And that’s OK. If you want to be a league of strong ethics and morals, then make that stand. Just be consistent.

But if a billionaire owner has a chance to increase his fortune by abandoning one market (and a new stadium) to cash in on a more lucrative territory, then what? Are these ethical principles applied selectively, with special exemptions made for those empowered by wealth and privilege?

The NFL can’t put pressure on a city to build a stadium, provide counsel on how to get it done, and continue to encourage the efforts unless the league backs it up with integrity and gives the city an honest chance to keep its franchise.

You don’t have a league relocation policy that clearly puts the onus on franchises to make a genuine, exhaustive effort to settle stadium issues in their home markets — only to disregard those rules.

Through Peacock-Blitz, St. Louis is working hard to finalize funding for a new stadium. This is a market that’s shown an unusual level of determination — crazily so — to remain in the NFL.

We’ve made the commitment in the past. And through Peacock and Blitz, we’re making “tremendous” progress in trying to reaffirm it again now.

And if we make this stadium a reality and hold up our end of the commitment, I just hope St. Louis can trust the NFL to do the same.
 

RamBill

Legend
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
8,874
Is a Chargers Move To Los Angeles Legal?
A group of fans is planning a lawsuit to block it
By Derek Togerson

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/Is-A-Chargers-Move-To-Los-Angeles-Legal-304831851.html


For quite some time now, the Chargers have been laying the ground work for a move to Los Angeles if the team and the San Diego government cannot come to an agreement on a new stadium in either Mission Valley or Downtown.

Carson is calling. Inglewood could be, too. But one major issue could prove to be an obstacle too large to overcome: Moving a football team from San Diego to L.A. might not be legal.

Chargers fans are dedicated to keeping their beloved team in America’s Finest City, even if it means they have to sue the NFL to do it, and they have found someone willing to help them if necessary.

“The Chargers and the NFL are basically saying give us what we want or we’re going to move the team,” says former City Attorney Mike Aguirre. “That really is a violation of the anti-trust laws.”

San Diegans who have followed the last decade and a half of stadium wrangling may have memories of Aguirre being a thorn in the Chargers’ side. He says he’s always been pro-Chargers, that he’s learned from those days and sees a constructive way of moving forward.

“It’s easy to come across as being anti-Chargers,” says Aguirre. “That’s where you have to be super, super cautious to say this is not anti-Chargers, this is pro-keeping the Chargers here in San Diego.”

The meat of the idea comes from a few different places. One is the Sherman Act. Another is the anti-trust lawsuit a group of NFL players brought against the NFL during the 2011 Lockout. Another is Boltman.

“What we would like to do here is get support and feedback from the fans that this is the best option if the Chargers turn their backs on us,” said Dan Jauregui, better known to many by his alter-ego Boltman. “The beauty of all this is it is not coming from the Mayor’s office or the city or CSAG. It’s coming from the Charger fans. No political issues from the city.”

In a written statement entitled, Desperate Times Call For Desperate Measures, Jauregui outlines the idea of bringing a lawsuit against the NFL:

“We strongly feel that if the Chargers continue to threaten our city and hold fans hostage after a fair and reasonable finance plan has been submitted, we will have no choice but to prepare to make our case in court under the laws that prohibit unfair competition. I have also prepared a “demand” letter to the city of San Diego, requesting they file an injunction against the NFL to protect the rights of San Diego fans by asserting the city’s rights under anti-trust law. This demand letter has not yet been served to the city. We have arrived at this point very reluctantly, but we believe as Americans we have the duty to assert our rights under the laws that require our markets to be kept open and free. The NFL cannot be allowed to use unlawful monopoly power to deprive us of what the fans have worked and sacrificed to make possible: a very successfully NFL team.”

It is extremely difficult to win an anti-trust case in America. If any current business knows that, it’s the National Football League.

“What’s great about this issue is the NFL has already lost,” says Aguirre. “So if the city were the raise it as a serious issue and really get behind it the hope would be the NFL would see the city is serious and force everybody in to a position of, Let’s try to work this thing out.”

The case most germane to the idea came about in 2011. A group of NFL players led by Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and a few others filed a class action suit against the NFL and its 32 member teams on anti-trust grounds. Their complaint read, in part:

“The NFL Defendants comprise the only major professional football league in the United States. Together, they monopolize and/or restrain trade in, and/or have combined and conspired to monopolize and/or restrain trade in the United State market for the services of major league professional football players.”

That phrase, restrain trade in, is one of the keys here. Section 1 of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act says, in part:

“Every contract … or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal …”

That’s the verbiage that could cause serious problems for the Chargers and the NFL if an attempt is made to move the team to the Los Angeles market. The NFL lost its case in 2011 (a decision “overwhelmingly” upheld by the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals) and would face a similar argument in San Diego.

According to Aguirre, restraining trade is legal if it’s done under reasonable circumstances such as a financial hardship.

“Normally what you would say is, look we can’t make money there. We can’t make a go of it. We’re not making as much as we need to keep the team going,” says Aguirre. “None of that argument can be made. (The Chargers are) making plenty of money. They’re making more money than they’ve ever made.”

According to numbers from the statistical website www.statista.com the Chargers have seen an increase in revenue every season for the last 15 years. In fact, the team’s revenues reportedly doubled from $131 million in 2001 to $262 million in 2013.

NFL Executive Vice President Eric Grubman has even said, “We have a healthy business. We are not losing money. We have never said that.” As a fun side note, Grubman’s Twitter handle is @EricNFLMoney.

Another reason for relocating the Chargers, says Aguirre, is the possibility of giving the San Diego market another NFL franchise.

“There’s no way for them to leave under the circumstances of the NFL saying we won’t give you another team. If the NFL were to say well we’ll give you another them, that’s a different story. They’re basically exploiting the fact that the NFL controls the number of teams. If you restrain trade it’s OK if it’s reasonable. If a monopoly restrains trade, then that’s a much more difficult case to make.”

Once again, Grubman’s response to whether or not San Diego would get an expansion team was less than favorable. He told the San Diego Union-Tribune it’s a “low probability.”

So if the groundwork for the lawsuit is there, another big question is money. Attorney fees are not cheap so who pays for it? Although it could be a taxpayer lawsuit, the taxpayers could avoid footing the bill.

“The taxpayers would not pay the legal fees unless the city council decided to invest in it and do it themselves,” says Aguirre. “Then it would be a combination of the city attorney and outside counsel. It could be structured in a lot of different ways.”

Taking this approach could get messy, and would likely be used only in a worst-case scenario to help level the playing field against the financial superiority in Los Angeles.

“It would not be requiring the city of San Diego to try to match the economic abilities of a much larger market like Los Angeles,” says Aguirre. “That’s the idea, to use all the arsenal if necessary.”

Aguirre would likely not be involved in the actual litigation. He suggests the same attorneys who helped the NFL players in 2011 take the lead on a lawsuit.

So what would be the underlying motivation of such a drastic course of action? To force the Chargers and local government to work together and truly pull out all the stops to make a stadium deal in San Diego.

“We are only trying,” says Jauregui, ”to help keep the Chargers in San Diego.”

Boltman is simply to make sure the Chargers don’t bolt, man.

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/spo...os-Angeles-Legal-304831851.html#ixzz3b1hrLru5
Follow us: @nbcsandiego on Twitter | NBCSanDiego on Facebook
 

BuiltRamTough

Pro Bowler
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
1,209
Name
Edmond
Is a Chargers Move To Los Angeles Legal?
A group of fans is planning a lawsuit to block it
By Derek Togerson

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/Is-A-Chargers-Move-To-Los-Angeles-Legal-304831851.html


For quite some time now, the Chargers have been laying the ground work for a move to Los Angeles if the team and the San Diego government cannot come to an agreement on a new stadium in either Mission Valley or Downtown.

Carson is calling. Inglewood could be, too. But one major issue could prove to be an obstacle too large to overcome: Moving a football team from San Diego to L.A. might not be legal.

Chargers fans are dedicated to keeping their beloved team in America’s Finest City, even if it means they have to sue the NFL to do it, and they have found someone willing to help them if necessary.

“The Chargers and the NFL are basically saying give us what we want or we’re going to move the team,” says former City Attorney Mike Aguirre. “That really is a violation of the anti-trust laws.”

San Diegans who have followed the last decade and a half of stadium wrangling may have memories of Aguirre being a thorn in the Chargers’ side. He says he’s always been pro-Chargers, that he’s learned from those days and sees a constructive way of moving forward.

“It’s easy to come across as being anti-Chargers,” says Aguirre. “That’s where you have to be super, super cautious to say this is not anti-Chargers, this is pro-keeping the Chargers here in San Diego.”

The meat of the idea comes from a few different places. One is the Sherman Act. Another is the anti-trust lawsuit a group of NFL players brought against the NFL during the 2011 Lockout. Another is Boltman.

“What we would like to do here is get support and feedback from the fans that this is the best option if the Chargers turn their backs on us,” said Dan Jauregui, better known to many by his alter-ego Boltman. “The beauty of all this is it is not coming from the Mayor’s office or the city or CSAG. It’s coming from the Charger fans. No political issues from the city.”

In a written statement entitled, Desperate Times Call For Desperate Measures, Jauregui outlines the idea of bringing a lawsuit against the NFL:

“We strongly feel that if the Chargers continue to threaten our city and hold fans hostage after a fair and reasonable finance plan has been submitted, we will have no choice but to prepare to make our case in court under the laws that prohibit unfair competition. I have also prepared a “demand” letter to the city of San Diego, requesting they file an injunction against the NFL to protect the rights of San Diego fans by asserting the city’s rights under anti-trust law. This demand letter has not yet been served to the city. We have arrived at this point very reluctantly, but we believe as Americans we have the duty to assert our rights under the laws that require our markets to be kept open and free. The NFL cannot be allowed to use unlawful monopoly power to deprive us of what the fans have worked and sacrificed to make possible: a very successfully NFL team.”

It is extremely difficult to win an anti-trust case in America. If any current business knows that, it’s the National Football League.

“What’s great about this issue is the NFL has already lost,” says Aguirre. “So if the city were the raise it as a serious issue and really get behind it the hope would be the NFL would see the city is serious and force everybody in to a position of, Let’s try to work this thing out.”

The case most germane to the idea came about in 2011. A group of NFL players led by Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and a few others filed a class action suit against the NFL and its 32 member teams on anti-trust grounds. Their complaint read, in part:

“The NFL Defendants comprise the only major professional football league in the United States. Together, they monopolize and/or restrain trade in, and/or have combined and conspired to monopolize and/or restrain trade in the United State market for the services of major league professional football players.”

That phrase, restrain trade in, is one of the keys here. Section 1 of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act says, in part:

“Every contract … or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal …”

That’s the verbiage that could cause serious problems for the Chargers and the NFL if an attempt is made to move the team to the Los Angeles market. The NFL lost its case in 2011 (a decision “overwhelmingly” upheld by the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals) and would face a similar argument in San Diego.

According to Aguirre, restraining trade is legal if it’s done under reasonable circumstances such as a financial hardship.

“Normally what you would say is, look we can’t make money there. We can’t make a go of it. We’re not making as much as we need to keep the team going,” says Aguirre. “None of that argument can be made. (The Chargers are) making plenty of money. They’re making more money than they’ve ever made.”

According to numbers from the statistical website www.statista.com the Chargers have seen an increase in revenue every season for the last 15 years. In fact, the team’s revenues reportedly doubled from $131 million in 2001 to $262 million in 2013.

NFL Executive Vice President Eric Grubman has even said, “We have a healthy business. We are not losing money. We have never said that.” As a fun side note, Grubman’s Twitter handle is @EricNFLMoney.

Another reason for relocating the Chargers, says Aguirre, is the possibility of giving the San Diego market another NFL franchise.

“There’s no way for them to leave under the circumstances of the NFL saying we won’t give you another team. If the NFL were to say well we’ll give you another them, that’s a different story. They’re basically exploiting the fact that the NFL controls the number of teams. If you restrain trade it’s OK if it’s reasonable. If a monopoly restrains trade, then that’s a much more difficult case to make.”

Once again, Grubman’s response to whether or not San Diego would get an expansion team was less than favorable. He told the San Diego Union-Tribune it’s a “low probability.”

So if the groundwork for the lawsuit is there, another big question is money. Attorney fees are not cheap so who pays for it? Although it could be a taxpayer lawsuit, the taxpayers could avoid footing the bill.

“The taxpayers would not pay the legal fees unless the city council decided to invest in it and do it themselves,” says Aguirre. “Then it would be a combination of the city attorney and outside counsel. It could be structured in a lot of different ways.”

Taking this approach could get messy, and would likely be used only in a worst-case scenario to help level the playing field against the financial superiority in Los Angeles.

“It would not be requiring the city of San Diego to try to match the economic abilities of a much larger market like Los Angeles,” says Aguirre. “That’s the idea, to use all the arsenal if necessary.”

Aguirre would likely not be involved in the actual litigation. He suggests the same attorneys who helped the NFL players in 2011 take the lead on a lawsuit.

So what would be the underlying motivation of such a drastic course of action? To force the Chargers and local government to work together and truly pull out all the stops to make a stadium deal in San Diego.

“We are only trying,” says Jauregui, ”to help keep the Chargers in San Diego.”

Boltman is simply to make sure the Chargers don’t bolt, man.

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/spo...os-Angeles-Legal-304831851.html#ixzz3b1hrLru5
Follow us: @nbcsandiego on Twitter | NBCSanDiego on Facebook
“We are only trying,” says Jauregui, ”to help keep the Chargers in San Diego.”

Boltman is simply to make sure the Chargers don’t bolt, man.

Wow.
 
Last edited:

iced

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
6,620
Those guys were bad but what about these 1st round guys who were also selected while Shaw was with the Rams? Owens, Dickerson, Gray, Lyght, Gilbert, Bettis, Carter, Pace, Wistrom, Jackson, Long...

Your kind of cherry picking some of the worst years and leaving out the other 14 winning years I mentioned. I think your forgetting about Martz and Zigmunts role during those years. I'm not sure that Shaw had his hands in that mess as much as those two did.

I'm not a Shaw fan but like I said he has shown he was capable in the past. The only reason I even pointed that out is because you seem to not believe the Rams were purposely torn down in the early nineties in order to justify a move.

I'm not cherry picking - I said look at his drafts even after he moved to St.Louis... was he trying to sabotage the team then too?

Or did he just get worse and become incompetent....

yea he got the occasional one right - that'd be like pointing to Robert quinn when talking about spags and devaney but ignoring all the other poor selections
 

blue4

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
3,126
Name
blue4
Is a Chargers Move To Los Angeles Legal?
A group of fans is planning a lawsuit to block it
By Derek Togerson

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/Is-A-Chargers-Move-To-Los-Angeles-Legal-304831851.html


For quite some time now, the Chargers have been laying the ground work for a move to Los Angeles if the team and the San Diego government cannot come to an agreement on a new stadium in either Mission Valley or Downtown.

Carson is calling. Inglewood could be, too. But one major issue could prove to be an obstacle too large to overcome: Moving a football team from San Diego to L.A. might not be legal.

Chargers fans are dedicated to keeping their beloved team in America’s Finest City, even if it means they have to sue the NFL to do it, and they have found someone willing to help them if necessary.

“The Chargers and the NFL are basically saying give us what we want or we’re going to move the team,” says former City Attorney Mike Aguirre. “That really is a violation of the anti-trust laws.”

San Diegans who have followed the last decade and a half of stadium wrangling may have memories of Aguirre being a thorn in the Chargers’ side. He says he’s always been pro-Chargers, that he’s learned from those days and sees a constructive way of moving forward.

“It’s easy to come across as being anti-Chargers,” says Aguirre. “That’s where you have to be super, super cautious to say this is not anti-Chargers, this is pro-keeping the Chargers here in San Diego.”

The meat of the idea comes from a few different places. One is the Sherman Act. Another is the anti-trust lawsuit a group of NFL players brought against the NFL during the 2011 Lockout. Another is Boltman.

“What we would like to do here is get support and feedback from the fans that this is the best option if the Chargers turn their backs on us,” said Dan Jauregui, better known to many by his alter-ego Boltman. “The beauty of all this is it is not coming from the Mayor’s office or the city or CSAG. It’s coming from the Charger fans. No political issues from the city.”

In a written statement entitled, Desperate Times Call For Desperate Measures, Jauregui outlines the idea of bringing a lawsuit against the NFL:

“We strongly feel that if the Chargers continue to threaten our city and hold fans hostage after a fair and reasonable finance plan has been submitted, we will have no choice but to prepare to make our case in court under the laws that prohibit unfair competition. I have also prepared a “demand” letter to the city of San Diego, requesting they file an injunction against the NFL to protect the rights of San Diego fans by asserting the city’s rights under anti-trust law. This demand letter has not yet been served to the city. We have arrived at this point very reluctantly, but we believe as Americans we have the duty to assert our rights under the laws that require our markets to be kept open and free. The NFL cannot be allowed to use unlawful monopoly power to deprive us of what the fans have worked and sacrificed to make possible: a very successfully NFL team.”

It is extremely difficult to win an anti-trust case in America. If any current business knows that, it’s the National Football League.

“What’s great about this issue is the NFL has already lost,” says Aguirre. “So if the city were the raise it as a serious issue and really get behind it the hope would be the NFL would see the city is serious and force everybody in to a position of, Let’s try to work this thing out.”

The case most germane to the idea came about in 2011. A group of NFL players led by Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and a few others filed a class action suit against the NFL and its 32 member teams on anti-trust grounds. Their complaint read, in part:

“The NFL Defendants comprise the only major professional football league in the United States. Together, they monopolize and/or restrain trade in, and/or have combined and conspired to monopolize and/or restrain trade in the United State market for the services of major league professional football players.”

That phrase, restrain trade in, is one of the keys here. Section 1 of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act says, in part:

“Every contract … or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal …”

That’s the verbiage that could cause serious problems for the Chargers and the NFL if an attempt is made to move the team to the Los Angeles market. The NFL lost its case in 2011 (a decision “overwhelmingly” upheld by the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals) and would face a similar argument in San Diego.

According to Aguirre, restraining trade is legal if it’s done under reasonable circumstances such as a financial hardship.

“Normally what you would say is, look we can’t make money there. We can’t make a go of it. We’re not making as much as we need to keep the team going,” says Aguirre. “None of that argument can be made. (The Chargers are) making plenty of money. They’re making more money than they’ve ever made.”

According to numbers from the statistical website www.statista.com the Chargers have seen an increase in revenue every season for the last 15 years. In fact, the team’s revenues reportedly doubled from $131 million in 2001 to $262 million in 2013.

NFL Executive Vice President Eric Grubman has even said, “We have a healthy business. We are not losing money. We have never said that.” As a fun side note, Grubman’s Twitter handle is @EricNFLMoney.

Another reason for relocating the Chargers, says Aguirre, is the possibility of giving the San Diego market another NFL franchise.

“There’s no way for them to leave under the circumstances of the NFL saying we won’t give you another team. If the NFL were to say well we’ll give you another them, that’s a different story. They’re basically exploiting the fact that the NFL controls the number of teams. If you restrain trade it’s OK if it’s reasonable. If a monopoly restrains trade, then that’s a much more difficult case to make.”

Once again, Grubman’s response to whether or not San Diego would get an expansion team was less than favorable. He told the San Diego Union-Tribune it’s a “low probability.”

So if the groundwork for the lawsuit is there, another big question is money. Attorney fees are not cheap so who pays for it? Although it could be a taxpayer lawsuit, the taxpayers could avoid footing the bill.

“The taxpayers would not pay the legal fees unless the city council decided to invest in it and do it themselves,” says Aguirre. “Then it would be a combination of the city attorney and outside counsel. It could be structured in a lot of different ways.”

Taking this approach could get messy, and would likely be used only in a worst-case scenario to help level the playing field against the financial superiority in Los Angeles.

“It would not be requiring the city of San Diego to try to match the economic abilities of a much larger market like Los Angeles,” says Aguirre. “That’s the idea, to use all the arsenal if necessary.”

Aguirre would likely not be involved in the actual litigation. He suggests the same attorneys who helped the NFL players in 2011 take the lead on a lawsuit.

So what would be the underlying motivation of such a drastic course of action? To force the Chargers and local government to work together and truly pull out all the stops to make a stadium deal in San Diego.

“We are only trying,” says Jauregui, ”to help keep the Chargers in San Diego.”

Boltman is simply to make sure the Chargers don’t bolt, man.

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/spo...os-Angeles-Legal-304831851.html#ixzz3b1hrLru5
Follow us: @nbcsandiego on Twitter | NBCSanDiego on Facebook

I have no idea what to think of that. On the surface, it sounds like BS.
 

rhinobean

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
2,152
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Bob
I see what you are saying about a certain group of people from LA. I will first say I know that there are a certain number of people in So-Cal who quit being Ram fans when Georgia moved the team. There are some in the "Bring back the LA Rams" group that I know disowned the team in '95 but are now jumping on the bandwagon. I don't associate with that group. Many of them are what I consider the "City first" type that we are discussing.
Secondly, In my 15 years of travels to STL for Rams games I have never seen or met 1 person who considers them self a football Cardinals fan. In addition, I have not read any post on this board or any other that a STL fan would continue to follow, or be a fan of the Rams if they are to move to LA.
In comparison, many Rams fans from So-Cal travel to STL each season to see the Rams play. Point being, there are many more fans from California who are loyal to the team regardless of where they play whereas fans from STL root only for the team that plays in STL.

Regarding your point, " been faithful and loyal to a poor product", I found your choice of words interesting. I think that being fanatical about a team and being a consumer of an NFL product 2 different things. A Fan has uncritical enthusiasm for their team. A consumer has expectations and sometimes conditions on what they buy. If someone wants a high quality NFL product (team) that has a high winning percentage, then have them go find another team that meets those expectations and stop complaining about the Rams and their performance the past 10 years.
You can't have it both ways ; you can't be a loyal fan and then assign conditions to it.
I, for 1 have stated that I'd still be a Rams fan if they moved to LA! I'd rather they stayed in my hometown but I'd still be a Rams fan if they went to La!
 

dieterbrock

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Is Spanos considered the villain that Kroenke is? Seems San Diego is making best attempts to keep them, like St Louis. Not sure I understand the difference?
 

blue4

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Is Spanos considered the villain that Kroenke is? Seems San Diego is making best attempts to keep them, like St Louis. Not sure I understand the difference?

To my mind Spanos and Davis are reacting to events, not driving them. Whether that makes any difference to the residents of those cities I have no idea. I doubt it. Probably wouldn't to me if there were plans on the table. I've never followed the SD stadium saga before now so I have no idea if SD or Spanos is primarily to blame for the lack of movement over 14 years.
 

dieterbrock

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To my mind Spanos and Davis are reacting to events, not driving them. Whether that makes any difference to the residents of those cities I have no idea. I doubt it. Probably wouldn't to me if there were plans on the table. I've never followed the SD stadium saga before now so I have no idea if SD or Spanos is primarily to blame for the lack of movement over 14 years.
From an outside perspective it seems similar, and reactionary much like Peacock and co in response to Stan opting out/Inglewood
End of the day I dont see why the Chargers could move to Carson with impunity while the Rams moving to LA requires so much.

I guess what I wonder is if Kroenke wanted to build his SuperStadium with his own funds (and gain all that comes with it) and wanted to build it in say Jefferson City while keeping the name intact, would he face the same difficulty?

As a lifelong Rams fan I see the LA possibility as a righting what was a wrong. And that has nothing to do with St Louis. LA got shafted by Georgia when she moved without approval. I dont see it as LA vs St Louis, they are pretty much mutually exclusive IMO

If Kroenke was looking to move the team somewhere other than LA I guess I would have an issue with it.
 
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blue4

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From an outside perspective it seems similar, and reactionary much like Peacock and co in response to Stan opting out/Inglewood
End of the day I dont see why the Chargers could move to Carson with impunity while the Rams moving to LA requires so much.

I think two reasons. One, the Rams are coming across the country and their leaving will decimate the market here. The Chiefs and Bears don't have any presence here and fans are more likely to stop being NFL fans and switch to Mizzou. I know many people have argued the same will happen to the SD market but I don't think the NFL buys that. It's not very far between Carson and SD. I'm saying that is probably the NFL belief. I know there are people here who disagree.

2. The disparity between the cities as far as trying for a stadium. Whether you view the start of negotiations with the CVC as the beginning of STL stadium talk (cough, cough,bullshit:whistle:) or the final oddly non communicative arbitration as the start, STL is still far ahead of SD as far as years spent.

IMO
 

dieterbrock

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I think two reasons. One, the Rams are coming across the country and their leaving will decimate the market here. The Chiefs and Bears don't have any presence here and fans are more likely to stop being NFL fans and switch to Mizzou. I know many people have argued the same will happen to the SD market but I don't think the NFL buys that. It's not very far between Carson and SD. I'm saying that is probably the NFL belief. I know there are people here who disagree.

2. The disparity between the cities as far as trying for a stadium. Whether you view the start of negotiations with the CVC as the beginning of STL stadium talk (cough, cough,bullcrap:whistle:) or the final oddly non communicative arbitration as the start, STL is still far ahead of SD as far as years spent.

IMO
As I stated above, if the Rams moved to Jeff City, would it make a difference?
 

blue4

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As I stated above, if the Rams moved to Jeff City, would it make a difference?

For me, yes. Jeff City is well within driving range. Would I be unhappy they are out of STL? Yes. Would it cause me angst? No. If the Rams absolutely wanted to leave and they only went that far I would breathe a huge sigh of relief. That falls under the could be worse category.

Anyway it's irrelevant to my post. I was simply relating how I think the NFL most likely views it. We've hashed out how the thread members feel about it. I think having Carson win over Inglewood would bring a huge sigh of relief from the NFL. In the end I'm not sure it will be enough to trump Kroenke tho.

Edit. Just reread your post. I misread it. No I don't think the Rams would face much resistance from the NFL. I think Jeff City would be viewed as salvaging the market from the NFL perspective. Sorry bout that.
 

RamBill

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Raiders in St. Louis? Don’t Rule It Out
Reporting from the NFL owners meetings, ESPN Rams reporter Nick Wagoner says Raiders owner Mark Davis’ insistence that his team will remain under his control and won’t be a candidate to move to St. Louis at some point remains a tenuous proposition. Things and circumstances can change. If the Rams left St.Louis, Davis might "revise" his position on moving there if it was his only option for a new stadium.

Watch Wagoner Talk Raiders in STL
 

The Ripper

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I'm not cherry picking - I said look at his drafts even after he moved to St.Louis... was he trying to sabotage the team then too?

Or did he just get worse and become incompetent....

yea he got the occasional one right - that'd be like pointing to Robert quinn when talking about spags and devaney but ignoring all the other poor selections

Rozelle in his letter to the executive committer that recommended not approving the move to St Louis pointed out that the ownership and team management directly caused the Rams problems. It pointed to the the Rams losing in court to the Anaheim and the Angels in 1988 as the start of the teams issues. They tracked team payroll that prior to 1988 had been at or above the league average after the was at the bottom. They tracked winning percentage the same thing and they found it directly correlated with the salaries. When the NFL audited the books they found significant amount of management expenses that couldn't be explained or documented. They also found that starting in 1988 the owner in started taking out substantial funds from the team in both salary and dividends. The other factor was that the revenues for the team actually placed the team in the top quartile for revenues from 1988 to 1993 and even in 1994 the team finished 10th.

Shaw's job was to maximize the income to Georgia not the Rams. If you look at the situation and the teams recent performance. when did it start and what significant date corresponds to it?
 

Legatron4

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The whole Raiders to STL situation is sketchy to me. Davis doesn't seem to wanna go, can they force him there? I mean, I guess the Raiders are better then no team at all. With all the work Peacock has put into the stadium, how can the NFL just abandon the STL market? I don't see it happening. I wouldn't be a Raiders fan but like I've stated many times, STL absolutely needs an NFL team. Would two expansion teams in LA work? Then everyone would keep their teams and LA would get fresh new teams. I don't know if you could find 34 QBs though.
 

The Ripper

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The whole Raiders to STL situation is sketchy to me. Davis doesn't seem to wanna go, can they force him there? I mean, I guess the Raiders are better then no team at all. With all the work Peacock has put into the stadium, how can the NFL just abandon the STL market? I don't see it happening. I wouldn't be a Raiders fan but like I've stated many times, STL absolutely needs an NFL team. Would two expansion teams in LA work? Then everyone would keep their teams and LA would get fresh new teams. I don't know if you could find 34 QBs though.

The NFL want's to get it right in LA with an existing team with ties to the area and they don't want to wait 5 more years for an expansion team to begin in LA. I know they keep saying no on expansion for a number of reasons but the main one was revenue sharing. If 2 teams came in 2019 or 2020 the NFL could say the teams couldn't get tv revenues until the next contract renewal like they did for the last round of expansion teams.
 
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