New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[iced]

Yes, it's right in the financing for the Riverfront Proposal that all PSL's goes to the stadium. In San Diego it's in their proposal that the Chargers get half of the PSL's sales. The will be sold by San Diego to pass on the proceeds tax free to the Chargers.

you're gonna have to link it cause that'd be first time i've even heard of it or find a place that references it - to my knowledge Peacock's group has never expanded on the PSL's

 

[RamFan503]

that's another assumption

you could easily make the same argument for raiders - there's still a lot of Raider fans in LA, and the Raiders also never left the state of CA.. Can just as easily having more fans there than the Rams. The only one who will have an educated guess at the answer are market studies

I dunno man. That's a pretty fair assumption. I lived in CA for 25 years and the Raiduhs never really established a big following down in LA. They had decent attendance at times but had to constantly discount seats and still were blacked out a fair amount. You can say what you want about not knowing for sure but most of us that were close to the situation know otherwise.

My uncle was a business partner of Al's and had season tickets to the raiduh games. He used to laugh about how easy it was to buy tickets near his seats for all his friends. When we went to Joe Montana's last game as a Chief, a rival game no less, there were plenty of good seats right around the 50. But at least the non-tarped endzone seats were full of thugs and cops.

There is no question in my mind who has the most fans between the Raiduhs and the Rams in the So Cal area. They were LA's team and the Raiduhs were always considered the team from Oakland. Sure there are Raiduhs fans in LA. Hell, there are probably more of them in Oregon than Rams fans. But no way does that hold true when you get to Southern CA. It's not really even close.

 

[RamFan503]

Yes, it's right in the financing for the Riverfront Proposal that all PSL's goes to the stadium. In San Diego it's in their proposal that the Chargers get half of the PSL's sales. The will be sold by San Diego to pass on the proceeds tax free to the Chargers.

I don't recall seeing it in any kind of detailed financing plan but I do believe Peacock has mentioned PSLs as part of the "public" funding section. In fact, if I recall correctly, we debated here the merits of him calling it public money.

Part of the problem I have is that you see articles from Wagoner and others that offer details about funding that don't seem to ever come from Peacock or Nixon. When are they going to go public with how they plan to pay for the stadium? Everyone wants to point at Stan for being silent on it. Why is Peacock getting a pass? Sorry - but it makes me skeptical that he has his ducks in a row.

 

[iced]

I dunno man. That's a pretty fair assumption. I lived in CA for 25 years and the Raiduhs never really established a big following down in LA. They had decent attendance at times but had to constantly discount seats and still were blacked out a fair amount. You can say what you want about not knowing for sure but most of us that were close to the situation know otherwise.

My uncle was a business partner of Al's and had season tickets to the raiduh games. He used to laugh about how easy it was to buy tickets near his seats for all his friends. When we went to Joe Montana's last game as a Chief, a rival game no less, there were plenty of good seats right around the 50. But at least the non-tarped endzone seats were full of thugs and cops.

There is no question in my mind who has the most fans between the Raiduhs and the Rams in the So Cal area. They were LA's team and the Raiduhs were always considered the team from Oakland. Sure there are Raiduhs fans in LA. Hell, there are probably more of them in Oregon than Rams fans. But no way does that hold true when you get to Southern CA. It's not really even close.

I also was too - and imo that'd be like saying based on all the jerseys I saw on base,out in ventura, port hueneme, and camarillo that the Raiders predominantly dominate the area.

My point is LA is so huge (and how often we've been reminded its a huge market) that no one can assume what fan base dominates what, especially since both teams have a history there. Not even the market studies will have a definite answer - it'll at least be an educated guess, but could very easily be well off

 

[bluecoconuts]

that's another assumption

you could easily make the same argument for raiders - there's still a lot of Raider fans in LA, and the Raiders also never left the state of CA.. Can just as easily having more fans there than the Rams. The only one who will have an educated guess at the answer are market studies

Sure there are Raiders fans in LA, they have carved out their little niche among the city. The problem is that niche has created Raiders fans, but far more anti-Raiders fans from what I can see. Kroenke is building a palace, and I have a hard time believing he wants to put a team that has a fan base with a reputation of not exactly being respectful to their house in it without a re-branding to attract a more appropriate group. That's why I have doubts that it'll be Rams and Raiders.

It can happen, but I don't see the incentive there for him. If it were his only option then perhaps, but since he holds the most money, I can't imagine he's going to be left with only one way into LA.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I also was too - and imo that'd be like saying based on all the jerseys I saw on base,out in ventura, port hueneme, and camarillo that the Raiders predominantly dominate the area.

I saw a lot of Cowboys jerseys at Fort Benning too, military posts are always a different breed. However again going back to the Raider niche, part of that includes wearing jerseys (Lakers gear included) as every day wear as well. It's a bit difficult to tip toe around it while being respectful (although people in LA will know what I mean) but most people who I know that are Rams fans tend to dress in business attire on a typical day.

 

[RamFan503]

I also was too - and imo that'd be like saying based on all the jerseys I saw on base,out in ventura, port hueneme, and camarillo that the Raiders predominantly dominate the area.

My point is LA is so huge (and how often we've been reminded its a huge market) that no one can assume what fan base dominates what, especially since both teams have a history there. Not even the market studies will have a definite answer - it'll at least be an educated guess, but could very easily be well off

I'll give you the area around Oxnard but that was not indicative of LA. LA is indeed huge but not really all that hard to get a pulse of when you live there your whole life and during the tenure of both teams. The numbers the LA Times poll revealed didn't surprise me at all. Especially considering that most Raiduh fans can't read. How would they answer that poll? He says half kidding.

 

[iced]

I saw a lot of Cowboys jerseys at Fort Benning too, military posts are always a different breed. However again going back to the Raider niche, part of that includes wearing jerseys (Lakers gear included) as every day wear as well. It's a bit difficult to tip toe around it while being respectful (although people in LA will know what I mean) but most people who I know that are Rams fans tend to dress in business attire on a typical day.

that's why I was including going out in town and just observing the civilians

 

[The Ripper]

you're gonna have to link it cause that'd be first time i've even heard of it or find a place that references it - to my knowledge Peacock's group has never expanded on the PSL's

The PSL's have been a source of funding since day 1. Here's one from the beginning and it's also in Nick Wagoner's article at the top of the last page.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_e1e77d44-59e1-50a1-87f4-17b56c6d233b.html

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-ra...t-louis-and-san-diego-stadium-financing-plans

St. Louis stadium proposal

Team/owner funding: $250 million

NFL G4 loan: $200 million

City and state bond extensions: $250 million

Brownfield and Missouri Development Finance Board tax credits: $150 million

Personal seat licenses: $100-120 million

Total recommended revenues: $950-985 million

 

[iced]

I'll give you the area around Oxnard but that was not indicative of LA. LA is indeed huge but not really all that hard to get a pulse of when you live there your whole life and during the tenure of both teams. The numbers the LA Times poll revealed didn't surprise me at all. Especially considering that most Raiduh fans can't read. How would they answer that poll? He says half kidding.

if Oxnard/Camarillo/Port hueneme isn't even close to LA then that's different. That's the majority area I spent most of my time at. Whenever I went out in San diego it was back in my single days, and I wasn't focused on jerseys if ya know what i mean

 

[iced]

The PSL's have been a source of funding since day 1. Here's one from the beginning and it's also in Nick Wagoner's article at the top of the last page.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_e1e77d44-59e1-50a1-87f4-17b56c6d233b.html

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-ra...t-louis-and-san-diego-stadium-financing-plans

yea they've been a source funding - but my point was no where does it say where the profits go from PSL's. You said Kroenke doesn't get the PSL money - show me where something says that. Because as of right now Peacock's group has never mentioned where the PSL money profits go

 

[bluecoconuts]

that's why I was including going out in town and just observing the civilians

if Oxnard/Camarillo/Port hueneme isn't even close to LA then that's different. That's the majority area I spent most of my time at. Whenever I went out in San diego it was back in my single days, and I wasn't focused on jerseys if ya know what i mean

Different county, different type of people. It connects back to the Raider fanbase niche in my opinion. There are certain areas in LA that have a higher number of Raider fans, some that have a higher number of Rams fans. I think one of the biggest difference other than Rams outnumbering Raiders, is the existence of the anti-Raider fans, which are quite common. Conversely I've never met an anti-Rams fan (other than fans of rivals stuff like that).. I'm sure they exist, but there's not as many. That's what I mean by needing to rebrand a bit.

 

[iced]

Different county, different type of people. It connects back to the Raider fanbase niche in my opinion. There are certain areas in LA that have a higher number of Raider fans, some that have a higher number of Rams fans. I think one of the biggest difference other than Rams outnumbering Raiders, is the existence of the anti-Raider fans, which are quite common. Conversely I've never met an anti-Rams fan (other than fans of rivals stuff like that).. I'm sure they exist, but there's not as many. That's what I mean by needing to rebrand a bit.

true but i was also thinking of the number of people who were also Ram Fans - I wore my jersey out every sunday to get food before kick off, and often times I'd wear some type of St.Louis gear (T-shirt, sweater, beanie,hat,etc. basically 75% of the time you knew I was a rams fan). only once can i recall a guy actively saying he was a rams fan - and by an off chance its on you guys, it was a mechanic in camarillo by woodranch bbq lol

outside of that - maybe saw a dickerson jersey once or twice

 

[The Ripper]

yea they've been a source funding - but my point was no where does it say where the profits go from PSL's. You said Kroenke doesn't get the PSL money - show me where something says that. Because as of right now Peacock's group has never mentioned where the PSL money profits go

Yes, they have from day one. Here's one of the videos and the article that contains the press release. There are no profits. There estimate the amount of PSL's sold and they go directly to the funding that's it there no more money

http://nextstl.com/2015/01/st-louis-strikes-back-nfl-proposal-riverfront-stadium-unveiled/

http://video.stltoday.com/New-St-Lo...28333550&freewheel=91130&sitesection=stltoday

Here's one of the slides from the initial presentation.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/4e/d4ef8e55-bbd9-5625-8c90-41bb2f8f0531/54b5fa6a452c4.image.png?resize=620,570

 

[bluecoconuts]

true but i was also thinking of the number of people who were also Ram Fans - I wore my jersey out every sunday to get food before kick off, and often times I'd wear some type of St.Louis gear (T-shirt, sweater, beanie,hat,etc. basically 75% of the time you knew I was a rams fan). only once can i recall a guy actively saying he was a rams fan - and by an off chance its on you guys, it was a mechanic in camarillo by woodranch bbq lol

outside of that - maybe saw a dickerson jersey once or twice

I see hats here and there, but I see Rams fans all the time. There's three hats I wear at work, a Rams hat on Sundays, Kings hat on Kings gamedays, and my multicam hat. Whenever I wore a team hat I had tons of people talking to me about the Rams or the Kings. That doesn't really mean much, but I met other fans all the time. Either way, I'd be shocked if the market surveys don't indicate that the Rams are the favored team.

 

[Hacksaw]

58 year resident of both LA and the OC. The earlier poll was correct. Easily 3 to 1 Rams. Probably more. Lots of transplant fans here too.

 

[tonyl711]

I'm sure for some that's true. Perhaps many. Not for others. It's a kin to the question 'will you still be a fan if they move to LA'?

im sure there will still be Rams fans there if another team goes there, but i would be willing to bet they would be a small minority if another team goes there. there are still Big Red fans here, but they are few and far between.

 

[dieterbrock]

58 year resident of both LA and the OC. The earlier poll was correct. Easily 3 to 1 Rams. Probably more. Lots of transplant fans here too.

I think you'll find an abundance of Raider fans wherever you go, the uniforms see to that. From an outside perspective even during the 12 years they played in LA they were still the Oakland Raiders....
Here in NY area the Jets are still the new kids on the block and 2nd class citizens. Can't see how it's different out there.

 

[den-the-coach]

I think you'll find an abundance of Raider fans wherever you go, the uniforms see to that. From an outside perspective even during the 12 years they played in LA they were still the Oakland Raiders....
Here in NY area the Jets are still the new kids on the block and 2nd class citizens. Can't see how it's different out there.

Raiders fans are less and less for obvious reasons the uniforms only go so far along with the association. IMO the NFL would like to see a different type of Raider fan one that could actually spell "Cat" if you spotted them the C & the A!

 

[blue4]

58 year resident of both LA and the OC. The earlier poll was correct. Easily 3 to 1 Rams. Probably more. Lots of transplant fans here too.

What's a transplant fan?