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RamBill

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Bernie: Nothing guaranteed with Rams
• By Bernie Miklasz

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_f53d3d86-9308-54e9-a4e0-21620da753ac.html

NFL executive vice president Eric Grubman was in town Thursday for meetings with Dave Peacock and Bob Blitz of the St. Louis stadium task force.

Grubman looms as a key player in the Rams’ potential attempt to move to Los Angeles before the 2016 season. Not only is Grubman in charge of supervising the LA market and monitoring various stadium dreams there, he’s taken an active interest in the Peacock-Blitz quest to get a new stadium off the ground in St. Louis.

The Post-Dispatch was invited to interview Grubman. Here are my primary takeaways from a 25-minute question-and-answer session:

• St. Louis must firm up plans to build a new stadium. That’s mandatory. But you knew that already. Grubman’s advice to St. Louis?

“Take the plan and get it done,” he said.

• It would be smart to act quickly to bring that STL stadium initiative to fruition. “We need to get this project to the point where it’s actionable this calendar year,” Grubman said.

• Grubman is more than a concerned observer. He traveled to St. Louis for meetings for the second time since Dec. 11. “This is not a scenario where we’re going to sit back and say ‘Tell us when you’re ready.’ We’re going to come in and do us much as we can to help them,” Grubman said. “That’s why we’re here.”

• There’s no reason to throw away all hope; the Rams could end up staying here. No, it doesn’t mean it will happen. But for what it’s worth, Grubman indicated that the NFL would like the Rams to remain in St. Louis.

“When Roger Goodell was elected commissioner, one of the main planks of his commissionership, which he’s emphasized repeatedly in the time he’s been commissioner, is 32 teams, strong in their markets,” Grubman said. “Not in some other theoretical market, but strong in their markets. So we have an obligation which we take very seriously, to do whatever it takes to give that a chance. If we fail, it won’t be for a lack of trying.”

• Even though Rams owner Stan Kroenke is a partner in the latest stadium start-up in Los Angeles, he hasn’t told the NFL that he wants to move the Rams there. But: “I’m not going to get into specifics other than he’s said he’s going to keep his options open and he’s looking,” Grubman said.

• Grubman wishes St. Louis had moved at a faster pace to formulate a stadium strategy, but he disagrees with the “too little, too late” theory being espoused by those that assume the Rams are bound for LA.

“I’ve heard that speculation, and I have been part of the effort to encourage St. Louis to do things earlier than has been done,” Grubman said. “But I also recognize that there’s a moment in time, and that moment in time has to be right for everyone. Especially public leadership, which is really required. And civic leadership and business leadership.

“So we’re not overly critical of that. That’s also a recognition of the fact that there’s not a huge amount of time to waste. There are other opportunities, and I don’t care to speculate about probabilities, but those are well known, and the club hasn’t been secret about looking at those. So it’s time to get after it.”

(Grubman was clearly talking about LA as an opportunity.)

• Grubman insisted that all owners will follow the league rules on franchise relocation — Kroenke included.

• Grubman likes what he’s seen of the St. Louis stadium outline, but stressed that it’s early in the process. And he’s right. This is hardly a done deal.

“This is the beginning of the process,” Grubman said. “And (Peacock and Blitz) have a job which in any community is tough to do. These projects are difficult and complicated. And everybody’s got to do their part. We’re really on the front end of that, and the early signs are encouraging.”

In responding to questions, Grubman was positive but pragmatic. He wants to reassure St. Louis of a fair process, but also pushed for urgency.

And now it’s time for some straight talk.

Grubman makes no guarantees. (Why would he? He can’t.) Grubman won’t allow himself or the league to be boxed in on the Rams situation. Grubman repeatedly cited the “subjective judgments” that must be made in assessing the Rams’ future.

The key word there — subjective — gives the NFL ample wiggle room if and when the league owners are asked to vote on a Rams’ move to Los Angeles.

I still believe the NFL will ultimately do what’s best for the NFL.

And history tells us that NFL can do whatever it wants to do.

That’s the bottom line, and it’s important to remember that.

Here’s a telling example. I asked Grubman this question: If the St. Louis stadium plan becomes a reality, is there a scenario in which Kroenke would still be allowed to move the team to LA?

“That’s a great question which I don’t know how to answer because that’s subject to the twin pillars of relocation guideline and votes,” Grubman said. “The relocation guidelines are not absolute etched in stone. There’s subjective judgments that have to be made.

“So I can’t guess that probability. But on the other hand there’s votes, which I don’t control. But what’s clear is, if a market has a franchise, and that franchise has been supported, and can be supported, and that franchise can enjoy a healthy existence, that’s a central plank of Roger Goodell’s commissionership. And I don’t take that lightly.”

Grubman shifted responsibility to the owners and their “subjective judgments.” More to the point, Grubman conceded that the relocation rules aren’t “etched in stone.”

That’s all I needed to hear to wonder (again) if it’s possible to entirely trust the league to enforce its guidelines on relocation. The league’s owners can decide if those guidelines have been met by Kroenke, and they aren’t required to be objective. Kroenke needs 24 votes to gain league approval for a move. If, indeed, he seeks approval.

I believe that Grubman is sincerely trying to provide guidance to Peacock and Blitz, and that his interest in the STL stadium project is genuine. The NFL is getting involved here, and that’s encouraging.

A new stadium is the only shot St. Louis has to stay in the NFL, but it doesn’t ensure that the Rams will be forced to remain here or that another team would move to in to fill the void.

Just as the man said, nothing is etched in stone.
 

bluecoconuts

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By all accounts, buying the largest available ranch in the west and keeping it as a production ranch wasn't likely either but he did just that. The dude has some skills in property and development. I can't pretend to know what he is thinking.

Yeah its hard to tell, some of what I go off of is when someone like Jerry Jones talks about how he can move if he wants to. It could just be Jerry being Jerry, but it could also be him tipping his hat to what Stan wants. I think at this point it looks like Stan wants to move, which is why I think St Louis needs to get something that floors him and makes him want to stay. It's one thing to make an offer, another to make on he wants.
 

RamFan503

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The PD had a 25 minute Q&A with NFL VP Eric Grubman.

For those interested.


http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_f53d3d86-9308-54e9-a4e0-21620da753ac.html
I listened to the interview posted here on this thread. Funny - it sounded like Grubman was here to help St Louis more than Bernie wants to indicate. Personally, this is the type of personal agenda reporting I have come to hate and expect out of Butthurt Bernie. Grubman sounds like a pretty straight forward guy. He says what he can and doesn't elaborate on what he shouldn't. I really think he wants to maintain St Louis as a NFL city. But honestly, some things are out of his purview and likely out of the NFL's hands themselves. One thing I did take from his offerings is that St Louis needs to stop posturing and trying to get Stan to offer up something. They need to get their ass moving toward presenting something known and workable. I didn't get the message that he thought St Louis was working at a fast enough pace. I DID get the feeling he was in St Louis to light a fire under their ass. IMO - those responsible for getting a workable proposal on the table better get it moving. His comments struck me as saying, "you've had enough time, now get serious - YESTERDAY! We want to help you but help us help you." Am I wrong here?

I really think the NFL wants a team in St Louis. Hell, I even think Stan still wants to keep the Rams in St Louis (obviously I could be wrong here). Does St Louis really want to do the work and tough political positioning/risk to keep the Rams in St Louis? I don't know. Maybe it's not worth it and they know the political pitfalls of pushing it. It's kinda sad really. I know everyone on this site from St Louis wants to keep the Rams - despite their shitty production over the last 10+ years. Does anyone else have the will and determination? It seems Peacock does but does he really have the backing to get it done. I dunno.
 

RamFan503

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Yeah its hard to tell, some of what I go off of is when someone like Jerry Jones talks about how he can move if he wants to. It could just be Jerry being Jerry, but it could also be him tipping his hat to what Stan wants. I think at this point it looks like Stan wants to move, which is why I think St Louis needs to get something that floors him and makes him want to stay. It's one thing to make an offer, another to make on he wants.
Not sure if it is what Stan wants but I can almost guarantee you they have discussed it and he knows Stan is ready if that is his best option. IMO - Jerruh WANTS Stan to move to LA so there's that. But I also think that there is nothing in precedent that says Stan can't just move. The ball has been in St Louis' court for some time. I really think it is dubious to say that they have acted with any sense of urgency. Get 'er done St Louis.
 

Dodgersrf

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I listened to the interview posted here on this thread. Funny - it sounded like Grubman was here to help St Louis more than Bernie wants to indicate. Personally, this is the type of personal agenda reporting I have come to hate and expect out of Butthurt Bernie. Grubman sounds like a pretty straight forward guy. He says what he can and doesn't elaborate on what he shouldn't. I really think he wants to maintain St Louis as a NFL city. But honestly, some things are out of his purview and likely out of the NFL's hands themselves. One thing I did take from his offerings is that St Louis needs to stop posturing and trying to get Stan to offer up something. They need to get their ass moving toward presenting something known and workable. I didn't get the message that he thought St Louis was working at a fast enough pace. I DID get the feeling he was in St Louis to light a fire under their ass. IMO - those responsible for getting a workable proposal on the table better get it moving. His comments struck me as saying, "you've had enough time, now get serious - YESTERDAY! We want to help you but help us help you." Am I wrong here?

I really think the NFL wants a team in St Louis. Hell, I even think Stan still wants to keep the Rams in St Louis (obviously I could be wrong here). Does St Louis really want to do the work and tough political positioning/risk to keep the Rams in St Louis? I don't know. Maybe it's not worth it and they know the political pitfalls of pushing it. It's kinda sad really. I know everyone on this site from St Louis wants to keep the Rams - despite their crappy production over the last 10+ years. Does anyone else have the will and determination? It seems Peacock does but does he really have the backing to get it done. I dunno.
Getting a stadium guarantee set in stone by the end of this year is a tall order for a City asking for the citizens to help finance it.
It does sound like the NFL wants football STL.
Though I still get the feeling they will let Stan make the decision. Stating the rules for relocation are subjective speaks volumes.
There is so much speculation going on right now that it's easy to become disoriented.
The simple facts are always the most telling though.
 

bluecoconuts

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I listened to the interview posted here on this thread. Funny - it sounded like Grubman was here to help St Louis more than Bernie wants to indicate. Personally, this is the type of personal agenda reporting I have come to hate and expect out of Butthurt Bernie. Grubman sounds like a pretty straight forward guy. He says what he can and doesn't elaborate on what he shouldn't. I really think he wants to maintain St Louis as a NFL city. But honestly, some things are out of his purview and likely out of the NFL's hands themselves. One thing I did take from his offerings is that St Louis needs to stop posturing and trying to get Stan to offer up something. They need to get their ass moving toward presenting something known and workable. I didn't get the message that he thought St Louis was working at a fast enough pace. I DID get the feeling he was in St Louis to light a fire under their ass. IMO - those responsible for getting a workable proposal on the table better get it moving. His comments struck me as saying, "you've had enough time, now get serious - YESTERDAY! We want to help you but help us help you." Am I wrong here?

I really think the NFL wants a team in St Louis. Hell, I even think Stan still wants to keep the Rams in St Louis (obviously I could be wrong here). Does St Louis really want to do the work and tough political positioning/risk to keep the Rams in St Louis? I don't know. Maybe it's not worth it and they know the political pitfalls of pushing it. It's kinda sad really. I know everyone on this site from St Louis wants to keep the Rams - despite their crappy production over the last 10+ years. Does anyone else have the will and determination? It seems Peacock does but does he really have the backing to get it done. I dunno.

If Stan is hell bent on moving, he may be trying to make sure St Louis doesn't give up because they may be hoping someone replaces them?
 

Dodgersrf

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If Stan is hell bent on moving, he may be trying to make sure St Louis doesn't give up because they may be hoping someone replaces them?
This is what I believe as well.
STL has proven to be a good NFL city. Very good.
 

blue4

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It's a little unrealistic to fault St Louis and it's civic and state leaders for not having a stadium deal done in advance, considering the country is just now coming out of one of the worst economic downturns in our history. If our owner wasn't so rich, instead maybe mid range for the NFL, this wouldn't be much of an issue.
 

Sum1

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It's a little unrealistic to fault St Louis and it's civic and state leaders for not having a stadium deal done in advance, considering the country is just now coming out of one of the worst economic downturns in our history. If our owner wasn't so rich, instead maybe mid range for the NFL, this wouldn't be much of an issue.
They seem to be moving at a pretty expedited rate compared to most other cities that have been in this situation. Hell, just looking at the other 2 cities in the same position, how long have the Chargers and Raiders been chasing a new stadium? They don't even have a concept drawing. Look when the process was started for the Vikings , 49ers, or the Falcons.
 

Thordaddy

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It's a little unrealistic to fault St Louis and it's civic and state leaders for not having a stadium deal done in advance, considering the country is just now coming out of one of the worst economic downturns in our history. If our owner wasn't so rich, instead maybe mid range for the NFL, this wouldn't be much of an issue.
I couldn't disagree more blue, the FACT that the Peacock Blitz ( Williams aught to name one of his packages that) duo were tasked to get in gear after the election , counting on the short term nature of voter memory to minimize any political harm is exactly the lack of true leadership that it may have required to keep the Rams in St.L.
As long as politicians are involved everything takes second priority to their re-election and their parties regardless where you stand on whether it's good or bad for the taxpayer / city/ state.
 

duckhunter

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Did the quote box mess with you too? I've had it happen where I tried to respond and it put everything inside one quote box.

But I think I get most of your gist.

Did Glenn get anything passed after the moves of the 90s? I haven't seen where he has and if not, I don't see it being relevant as it didn't stop the Raiduhs, Rams, Browns, et al.[/QUOTE]

Then you may not have read my first post and 'Baltimore Sun article link.'

Glenn's legislation is the basis for the Antitrust exemptions and rolls the team location decisions under the NFL's hat. The issues are somewhat tied at the hip. It discusses concerns for cities' interests and is the ultimate test for any relocation since it is the basis of the law. Secondly, the court system defining and adjudicating that law is another hurdle that easily transcends the NFL and arrogant team owners such as Jerry Jones. NFL cities have sued teams and the NFL in the past so to think that it's a one-way street is naive. However, these T charts of 'if, then' are way down the flowchart.

Jerry Jones' comments makes the NFL look disingenuous/almost like cowboys. He may have also been antagonizing SK to move now when he knows that may not be in the SK's best interests. The NFL looks like 1%ers and those words will come back to haunt them.

Somewhere on this site, I previously posted the latest, boring law revue on the NFLs antitrust legislation.

I have limited my time to stay up on the subject and will forego any other participation with the Rams at this time.
 

beej

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I couldn't disagree more blue, the FACT that the Peacock Blitz ( Williams aught to name one of his packages that) duo were tasked to get in gear after the election , counting on the short term nature of voter memory to minimize any political harm is exactly the lack of true leadership that it may have required to keep the Rams in St.L.
As long as politicians are involved everything takes second priority to their re-election and their parties regardless where you stand on whether it's good or bad for the taxpayer / city/ state.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. There's nothing in the world wrong with taking your time and getting this right, looking at all the options, analyzing all the data and financial numbers, looking into existing developments and their plans so that you know you are doing whats best for the city, county, state and taxpayers before you spend a $1,000,000,000.

it took me a year to commit to marrying my wife and another year to plan the wedding. So this process seems like it's moving pretty fast to me. ;)
 

Boffo97

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I've said it before, I'll say it again. There's nothing in the world wrong with taking your time and getting this right, looking at all the options, analyzing all the data and financial numbers, looking into existing developments and their plans so that you know you are doing whats best for the city, county, state and taxpayers before you spend a $1,000,000,000.

it took me a year to commit to marrying my wife and another year to plan the wedding. So this process seems like it's moving pretty fast to me. ;)
This is taking so long though that it's beyond "taking your time and getting this right". It's coming off more like being able to say later they TRIED to keep the team.
 

beej

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This is taking so long though that it's beyond "taking your time and getting this right". It's coming off more like being able to say later they TRIED to keep the team.
Man! we just see it differently. What year, in your mind should there have been a new stadium in place.
 

Thordaddy

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I've said it before, I'll say it again. There's nothing in the world wrong with taking your time and getting this right, looking at all the options, analyzing all the data and financial numbers, looking into existing developments and their plans so that you know you are doing whats best for the city, county, state and taxpayers before you spend a $1,000,000,000.

it took me a year to commit to marrying my wife and another year to plan the wedding. So this process seems like it's moving pretty fast to me. ;)

I don't disagree with any of that my post was in reference to the FACT that the timing of getting going was scrupulously held uintil after an election ,which indicates to me keeping the Rams was an agenda held second to political considerations,they've known the Rams could opt out since the arbitrators decision ,they've known the deadline on the provisions of the lease were what they were from the leases inception.

There comes a time when you are going to get so much time and that's it, letting that time come if it was allowed to materialize because you feared the political damage it might do to yourself or your party if you committed earlier is not IMO an indication that the taxpayers ,the stadium, the economic impact are any of them the first priority ,so I can't agree that our state leadership can't be blamed if the team moves.

BTW I dated my wife for six years before we married , and I can't say that "relocation" wasn't a factor she definitely was in a "fish or cut bait" frame of mind, best decision I ever made.
 

Boffo97

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Man! we just see it differently. What year, in your mind should there have been a new stadium in place.
Well, right now, nothing is in place. They have some pretty drawings, great. They're still assuming Stan's going to kick in a couple of million for a place he won't even own which he may not, and that they'll be able to get public funding, which they may not. If not for Goodell's decree/announcement that teams supposedly agreed that there would be no 2015 move, the Rams may have already been gone.

Given that the CVC's decision to not go with the Rams' EJD upgrade plan after the arbitrator agreed with them was 2 years ago next month, I'd say at the very least, this process is a year behind. And you can make the argument that there should have been action on their part after 2005 when the stadium wasn't top tier and the Rams waived that requirement then. They obviously weren't always going to do that.
 

Rmfnlt

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I listened to the interview posted here on this thread. Funny - it sounded like Grubman was here to help St Louis more than Bernie wants to indicate. Personally, this is the type of personal agenda reporting I have come to hate and expect out of Butthurt Bernie. Grubman sounds like a pretty straight forward guy. He says what he can and doesn't elaborate on what he shouldn't. I really think he wants to maintain St Louis as a NFL city. But honestly, some things are out of his purview and likely out of the NFL's hands themselves. One thing I did take from his offerings is that St Louis needs to stop posturing and trying to get Stan to offer up something. They need to get their ass moving toward presenting something known and workable. I didn't get the message that he thought St Louis was working at a fast enough pace. I DID get the feeling he was in St Louis to light a fire under their ass. IMO - those responsible for getting a workable proposal on the table better get it moving. His comments struck me as saying, "you've had enough time, now get serious - YESTERDAY! We want to help you but help us help you." Am I wrong here?

I really think the NFL wants a team in St Louis. Hell, I even think Stan still wants to keep the Rams in St Louis (obviously I could be wrong here). Does St Louis really want to do the work and tough political positioning/risk to keep the Rams in St Louis? I don't know. Maybe it's not worth it and they know the political pitfalls of pushing it. It's kinda sad really. I know everyone on this site from St Louis wants to keep the Rams - despite their crappy production over the last 10+ years. Does anyone else have the will and determination? It seems Peacock does but does he really have the backing to get it done. I dunno.
I'm no Bernie fan, for sure.

But what you wrote seems very similar to what his report included.

I know he's not apopular subject here, but calling him out on this one seems a tad over the top?

JMHO.
'
 

beej

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I'd say at the very least, this process is a year behind. And you can make the argument that there should have been action on their part after 2005 when the stadium wasn't top tier and the Rams waived that requirement then. They obviously weren't always going to do that.
I would say that they are about a 6 months to a year behind. that honestly doesn't sound bad to me when I look at other cities and especially LA. (no offense) One of the biggest slow downs in the process from what I'm hearing is that they tried for too long to get input on the new stadium from Stan. And he just wouldn't call them back. It took them too long to get the hint, but maybe I would have done the same thing had I been one of the civic leaders.

another misconception is that Gov Nixon waited until after the election to get this ball rolling. He got the ball rolling quite a while ago. He just didn't announce it to the public until after the election. Whether you like Bernie or not he's pretty well connected and he said over a year ago that there were a couple of city leaders working behind the scenes to put together a plan.
 
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